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Flame ON! - Somebody doesn't like Adobe

COW Forums : Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate

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Craig SeemanFlame ON! - Somebody doesn't like Adobe
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 7:09:03 pm

Flame ON! - Somebody doesn't like Adobe

What Is Adobe Afraid Of?
http://www.fcproxuniversity.com/FCPro_X_University/Extra_Credit/Entries/201...

Posting because I'm in the mood for a little NLE Wrestling Association fighting ;)

I don't know how any of this can be substantiated but I thought this was interesting.



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Steve ConnorRe: Flame ON! - Somebody doesn't like Adobe
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 7:16:33 pm

(Puts on tin helmet and retires to bunker!)

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Frank GothmannRe: Flame ON! - Somebody doesn't like Adobe
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 7:35:53 pm

Hardly surprising coming from that source, isn't it?
Let's assume what he's written is true.

Apple's R&D and programming is 100% USA.

- Wow, with 20 people in the pro apps division, that really makes much of a difference.

Apple only speaks of their products own merits, they don’t bash other NLEs.

Well, not other NLEs. Yep. But apart from that, pretty much any other product that is competing with them. BSOD icon for windows file sharing anyone.

Adobe gave a free copy to every vendor on the Central 1st floor (where they were located), and asked vendors to use it instead of FCPX.

- Yep, they asked them? Did they order them? No. What's wrong with that?

Apple allows vendors to chose on their own.

Did Adobe ask them or order them? And how is Apple allowing or disallowing anything when they are not even there officially. If they don't like it, hey.... show up... officially... and then... "ask".

Apple has sold many, many more copies of FCP X than they ever sold of FCP 7, in the same amount of time.

- Where is the "many many more" coming from? If it's three times more than FCP7, given the price point, it still means they haven't made more profit with it than with 7.

------
"You also agree that you will not use these products for... the development, design, manufacture or production of nuclear, missiles, or chemical or biological weapons."
iTunes End User Licence Agreement


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Craig SeemanRe: Flame ON! - Somebody doesn't like Adobe
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 7:44:19 pm

[Frank Gothmann] "Apple only speaks of their products own merits, they don’t bash other NLEs."

That would change if Google made an NLE though.



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Frank GothmannRe: Flame ON! - Somebody doesn't like Adobe
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 7:47:59 pm

[Craig Seeman] "That would change if Google made an NLE though."

Or Samsung.

------
"You also agree that you will not use these products for... the development, design, manufacture or production of nuclear, missiles, or chemical or biological weapons."
iTunes End User Licence Agreement


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Steve ConnorRe: Flame ON! - Somebody doesn't like Adobe
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 7:51:43 pm

[Craig Seeman] "That would change if Google made an NLE though."

They will

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Chris KennyRe: Flame ON! - Somebody doesn't like Adobe
by on Apr 12, 2013 at 2:51:06 am

[Steve Connor] "They will"

They have.

(I'm not sure if that page loads unless you're logged into a YouTube account with its own channel. Basically, YouTube offers a web-based video editing interface.)

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


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Chris HarlanRe: Flame ON! - Somebody doesn't like Adobe
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 7:32:08 pm

Interesting? A pleasant laugh, yes, but interesting--for me--has to be more, well.... interesting.


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Joseph W. BourkeRe: Flame ON! - Somebody doesn't like Adobe
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 7:33:44 pm

Whew -

Unproven claims and fiery rhetoric seems to be the theme of the day...

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Gary HuffRe: Flame ON! - Somebody doesn't like Adobe
by on Apr 12, 2013 at 2:50:58 am

[Joseph W. Bourke] "
Unproven claims and fiery rhetoric seems to be the theme of the day..."


There must have been some Merlot involved!


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John GodwinRe: Flame ON! - Somebody doesn't like Adobe
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 7:36:09 pm

Is it "Clobberin' time"?

Best,
John


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Joseph W. BourkeRe: Flame ON! - Somebody doesn't like Adobe
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 8:11:36 pm

John -

More like "Slobberin" time.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Aindreas GallagherRe: Flame ON! - Somebody doesn't like Adobe
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 7:50:34 pm

wow. that dude was incredibly keen to lash out at Adobe.

Yoda tells us that Anger comes from fear. Fear comes from, oh, right: fcproxuniversity.com
that, you might suspect, is a man fearing for his business plan.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Brett ShermanRe: Flame ON! - Somebody doesn't like Adobe
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 10:27:21 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Yoda tells us that Anger comes from fear"

Then why are you so afraid of FCP X? :)



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Shane RossRe: Flame ON! - Somebody doesn't like Adobe
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 9:17:18 pm

What a shock...we cannot comment on that post.

Ben Balser is kissing up BIG time. Trying to get Apple's favor. He's a big suck up on the forums I happen to see him on.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Craig SeemanRe: Flame ON! - Somebody doesn't like Adobe
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 9:33:09 pm

Do you really think Apple would curry favor for this?

There's nothing in there that I think would change most people's sentiment towards either Adobe or Apple.



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Charlie AustinRe: Flame ON! - Somebody doesn't like Adobe
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 9:39:49 pm

[Craig Seeman] "Do you really think Apple would curry favor for this?

There's nothing in there that I think would change most people's sentiment towards either Adobe or Apple."


It's just noise. Like everything unofficial coming out of NAB. Grey Noise. ;-)

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Aindreas GallagherRe: Flame ON! - Somebody doesn't like Adobe
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 9:34:14 pm

he kind of overdid it tho? came across quite emotional.







http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Shane RossRe: Flame ON! - Somebody doesn't like Adobe
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 10:17:08 pm

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Michael HadleyRe: Flame ON! - Somebody doesn't like Adobe
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 10:28:25 pm

Ultimately, this is all about business. Adobe is the underdog, given that it has never had the reach or respect that FCP once had. Not to mention, Apple has a much stronger overall company behind that. That said, the proof is in the pudding. If Adobe's NLE is better, more people will use it over time. If FCPX is better, it will continue to rise (from the basement level it started on, reputation wise).

Having at least 3 viable options is good for competition and ultimately good for editors. Personally, I really dig FCPX, but if Premier keeps coming on strong, won't be afraid to make a switch.


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Don WalkerRe: Flame ON! - Somebody doesn't like Adobe
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 11:31:30 pm

I too love editing with FCPX, but because I have the Creative Cloud, I will be watching CSNext very closely.
I did not find Premiere 6 to be better (for me) than X, but it's close. If CSNext is great, it will give me the option to seriously think about moving to PC work flow, which is something I find tempting due to the price of replacing my 4 yr old MacPro, and MacBook Pro. I love OSX, but an edit capable laptop from Samsung or HP is half the price of the equivalent MacBook Pro

don walker
texarkana, texas

John 3:16


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Charlie AustinRe: Flame ON! - Somebody doesn't like Adobe
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 11:37:32 pm

[Don Walker] "I love OSX, but an edit capable laptop from Samsung or HP is half the price of the equivalent MacBook Pro"

I hear ya. But FWIW, X, CS6, and MC 6.5 all run really well on my MacBook Air. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Don WalkerRe: Flame ON! - Somebody doesn't like Adobe
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 11:41:35 pm

[Charlie Austin] "I hear ya. But FWIW, X, CS6, and MC 6.5 all run really well on my MacBook Air. :-)"

Really? I've been curious about what type of work could be done on MacBook Air with FCPX. I never thought about any of the Adobe products running well on one.

don walker
texarkana, texas

John 3:16


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Charlie AustinRe: Flame ON! - Somebody doesn't like Adobe
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 11:53:05 pm

[Don Walker] "Really? I've been curious about what type of work could be done on MacBook Air with FCPX. I never thought about any of the Adobe products running well on one."

Well, I really haven't done a lot on it, but X seems to run fine, even doing EZ multicam stuff (2or3 angles) MC 6.5 and Pr run OK. I haven't pushed it, or done anything requiring heavy GPU lifting, but i think it'd be OK for quick, basic cutting. YMMV as they say. Maybe I'll bring something crazy home from work and see how it does, just for laughs... :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Dennis RadekeRe: Flame ON! - Somebody doesn't like Adobe
by on Apr 12, 2013 at 12:05:45 am

I will recuse myself on debating his assertions but merely embrace what's already been inferred - may the best NLE (for you!) win.

Rising above the noise (or fray in this case),
Dennis - Adobe guy


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Joseph W. BourkeRe: Flame ON! - Somebody doesn't like Adobe
by on Apr 12, 2013 at 12:19:01 am

Watch out Dennis! It seems Adobe is being blamed for everything from the Bay of Pigs Invasion to Global Warming! I think there must be something in the Cloud the last couple of days...

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Bret WilliamsRe: Flame ON! - Somebody doesn't like Adobe
by on Apr 12, 2013 at 12:02:50 am

I would think the air would fair pretty well. We have a low end 2012 MacBook Pro (not a retina, not an air, just an i5) and just yesterday I hooked up a 5400rpm USB3 Lacie Rugged drive with some Canon 4k footage (from a 1D C? ) on it and was able to play back the proxys without dropping frames in X in better performance mode. Amazing that the footage also worked natively as 4k, but very stuttery of course. The air has a better graphics card I believe.

Right next to this little laptop I was editing the same footage in legacy on a nice Mac Pro. But of course in legacy we had to run it through plural eyes to sync the audio, and transcode all the footage with 5DtoRGB just to use it. I wonder how CS6 fares with the whole 4k proxy thing? Sounds like they've got the audio sync features in CSNext, but I haven't seen enough of the multi cam.


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Ryan HolmesRe: Flame ON! - Somebody doesn't like Adobe
by on Apr 12, 2013 at 3:17:49 am

[Michael Hadley] "Having at least 3 viable options is good for competition and ultimately good for editors. "

+1 for this.

I don't understand why people believe the NLE market has to be a zero sum game (referring to the sited blog post, not anybody in this thread). For FCP X to succeed doesn't mean Premiere Pro has to fail or vice versa. Anymore than for Apple to succeed Microsoft has to fail. Companies can and should carve out their own user-base and support them. These company versus company notions seem repetitive year after:

Apple vs Microsoft
Google vs Microsoft
Google vs Apple
Apple vs Samsung
Apple vs Adobe vs Avid vs Autodesk

For one company to do well doesn't mean the others dry up and die. It just may be that each is targeting and catering to a different aspect of the market. As a former FCP7 editor turned to PPro I'm glad to see FCPX adding in features so quickly. It's good for the market. It's good for the users of FCPX. It's good for competition. FCPX doesn't work in our workflow, but that doesn't mean it doesn't work for somebody. I don't need to bash a NLE just because it doesn't fit my style/workflow. Maybe others do?

Just my $.02

Ryan Holmes
http://www.ryanholmes.me
@CutColorPost


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+5

Rafael AmadorRe: Flame ON! - Somebody doesn't like Adobe
by on Apr 12, 2013 at 3:49:19 am

Wop!!
The link doesn't work anymore.
rafael


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David EaksRe: Flame ON! - Somebody doesn't like Adobe
by on Apr 12, 2013 at 10:23:11 am

Not working for me either. Lets try this one-

http://www.fcproxuniversity.com/FCPro_X_University/Extra_Credit/Entries/201...


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Craig SeemanRe: Flame ON! - Somebody doesn't like Adobe
by on Apr 12, 2013 at 10:42:44 am

Looks like the page has been revised and updated.



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Rafael AmadorRe: Flame ON! - Somebody doesn't like Adobe
by on Apr 12, 2013 at 12:00:05 pm

No comments.
rafael


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Joseph W. BourkeRe: Flame ON! - Somebody doesn't like Adobe
by on Apr 12, 2013 at 12:17:34 pm

Oh no! A vendor giving out software at a trade show? Please...say it's not so... :>)

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Craig SeemanRe: Flame ON! - Somebody doesn't like Adobe
by on Apr 12, 2013 at 12:27:59 pm

[Joseph W. Bourke] "Oh no! A vendor giving out software at a trade show? Please...say it's not so... :>)"

I didn't see a problem with that either.
In fact I'm still trying to figure out the marketing campaign that Apple launched to coincide with NAB (as mentioned in the LA Times).
Maybe Apple should have considered doing likewise with FCPX.

Granted one may critique Adobe's marketing but I'd be more concerned with the lack of Apple's marking especially after they "launched a campaign to coincide with NAB" paraphrasing the LA Times.



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Julian BowmanRe: Flame ON! - Somebody doesn't like Adobe
by on Apr 12, 2013 at 12:40:25 pm

"I learned at NAB Show 2013 that although Adobe's R&D is all done in the USA, the overwhelming bulk of programming is farmed out to India.

Apple's R&D and programming is 100% USA made and supported. "


Er, but don't Apple farm their hardware manufacturing out to Chinese sweatshops where employees commit suicide at a rate that would make a sociopath blush?

Cherry picking is an easy game.



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Joseph W. BourkeRe: Flame ON! - Somebody doesn't like Adobe
by on Apr 12, 2013 at 1:58:02 pm

Plus they sue the pants off anyone who manufacturers anything which remotely looks like a portable phone. Yeah...those curved edges were certainly a unique proprietary design implementation...

Yup...Apple...that shining symbol on the hill...

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Richard CardonnaRe: Flame ON! - Somebody doesn't like Adobe
by on Apr 12, 2013 at 3:16:14 pm

I wonder who big bigbrother is today?

Richard


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Joseph W. BourkeRe: Flame ON! - Somebody doesn't like Adobe
by on Apr 12, 2013 at 6:50:24 pm

Richard -

These days, big brother is everyone who's not you or me, the little guys on the street. The corporations (not just Apple or Adobe) and trade interest groups have all the politicians in their pockets, and it's open season on our wallets and our savings...

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Thomas FrankRe: Flame ON! - Somebody doesn't like Adobe
by on Apr 12, 2013 at 9:28:51 pm

What was revised and updated?



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Craig SeemanRe: Flame ON! - Somebody doesn't like Adobe
by on Apr 12, 2013 at 9:36:13 pm

He revised the Adobe market share percentage and added more commentary on that. I think his harsh critique of Adobe in the last couple of paragraphs seems to have more to it than before but I'm not sure about that one.



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Thomas FrankRe: Flame ON! - Somebody doesn't like Adobe
by on Apr 12, 2013 at 9:37:25 pm

Thanks for the input



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Walter SoykaRe: Flame ON! - Somebody doesn't like Adobe
by on Apr 12, 2013 at 7:29:30 pm

Mr. Balser has another post from yesterday entitled "Final Cut Pro X and the Future."

http://www.fcproxuniversity.com/FCPro_X_University/Extra_Credit/Entries/201...

Although I agree with some of his points -- and yes, I was as surprised at that as you may be -- I do pause at his conclusion:

"FCP X is powerful, it is here to stay, and it will be the dominant player 7 was. That is not a rumor, that is not the mindless ranting of a fanboy, that is not wishful thinking, that is the cold, hard fact, dear readers."


I have nothing more to add but to point back to Ryan Holmes's outstanding "not a zero sum game" post above [link].

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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