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Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)

COW Forums : Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate

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Greg AndonianCall me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 5:00:04 am

From reading the posts on here about the new Premiere Pro, I'm really starting to get the feeling that if this thing lives up to the hype, the days of FCP 7 are going to be numbered once it ships. People are chomping at the bit to get their hands on this thing, and I've seen comments from some about how it's the first NLE they WANT to use MORE than FCP 7. Things are about to get real interesting if you ask me...

______________________________________________
"Up until here, we still have enough track to stop the locomotive before it plunges into the ravine... But after this windmill it's the future or bust."


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Rafael AmadorRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 6:12:53 am

Just to point that wasn't PP, but Apple the culprit.
You know? I was about to retire from video editing, and FC's EOL has speeded up the process.
I will end up my editing career with FC.
Rafael


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Bernard NewnhamRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 8:54:54 am

FCP X hasn't been mentioned in nine threads now. Time to call this forum PPro or not: The Debate

Bernie


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Jeremy GarchowRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 11:14:12 am

FCP7 is dead. Long live FCP7 Next.


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Steve ConnorRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 11:18:37 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "FCP7 is dead. Long live FCP7 Next."

So that's why they haven't announced the name yet

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Aindreas GallagherRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 1:02:06 pm

Amen to that - seriously tho - it really looks good doesn't it?

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Brett ShermanRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 2:08:20 pm

Just out of curiosity, what specific things makes Premiere CS 7 more viable than CS 6? When I look at the feature list it looks good, but not revolutionary. What are the tipping point features? The only ones I can think of is Project Browsing and DNxHD.



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Franz BieberkopfRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 2:16:53 pm

Brett,

It probably differs from person to person.

For me it's viable audio mixing (with support for control surfaces thrown in as a bonus) and viable relinking (I hope) which would have been a nightmare otherwise.

With those two "tipping point" features, I'm willing to test it under scale duress and explore workflow on future projects.

Franz.


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Victor PerezRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 2:49:16 pm

I agree with Franz, it varies from person to person. I believe the most excited with this release are the switchers from other NLEs, me being one of them. CS 5.5 didn't seem right for me at the time, but with the release of CS6 I was all in. Even tho I missed a lot of features from FCP & Avid there was a lot to like about CS6. Now with the soon to be released CS7 it seems Adobe has added many of the tools available in other NLE's and added even more of their own to the mix. For long time Premiere users there are now additional tools to use in the edit. Thats Great. For those of us who switched from other NLE's, Thats Awesome! We now have familiar tools we have long missed from our previous NLE and some new ones to learn as well.

Victor
editvictor.com
http://www.hbhm.tv
http://www.itvisus.com


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Lance BachelderRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 4:22:09 pm

I haven't had much of a chance to play with it yet at the show - we have the entire suite in all our stations at the AJA booth but it was crashing constantly on my pod Monday. Audio looks better - way nicer waveforms. Simpply being ably to move a clip up or down a track like FCP7 is tiny but huge in day to day editing... I'll be testing out some more this afternoon when I get back to the booth.

I was on Speedgrade station all day yesterday with a Tangent Element control surface - it's MUCH improved - now supports all AJA hardware - and fantastic when paired with Tangent and LOOKLABS pre-sets - I may be convinced to drop Resolve...

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Herb SevushRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 3:00:34 pm

[Brett Sherman] "what specific things makes Premiere CS 7 more viable than CS 6"

Re-linking, audio patching, clip mixing, clip sync indicators, ProRes and DNxHD native, along with some minor but pleasant timeline improvements - through edits, track nudging - plus improved color correction through integration with Speed Grade along with the addition of a "script sync" feature makes it fairly impressive.

It's also become clear that Adobe thinks the high end video editing segment is up for grabs and is committed to doing what it takes to own it. It's nice to feel wanted.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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David LawrenceRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 5:08:31 pm

[Herb Sevush] "It's also become clear that Adobe thinks the high end video editing segment is up for grabs and is committed to doing what it takes to own it. It's nice to feel wanted."

Amen to that!

_______________________
David Lawrence
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Aindreas GallagherRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 7:46:56 pm

[Brett Sherman] "what specific things makes Premiere CS 7 more viable than CS 6?"

In a way i don't have a very good answer for that - its not so much viability, I just want to edit in it?

the improvements to the timeline and as they say, the finesse of the thing are really pretty major - being able to select a ProRes timeline, with prores preview rendering and pro res export is an awfully big biggie. Just in terms of settling your head that you can execute in that way. Export of a clean PRORES timeline looks to run at about four or five times realtime in a published test - so you know that whole export hit is basically gone.

Also I am way more incentivised to dick around with speedgrade now. like - quite a lot.

there was a dude that adobe interviewed at nab - he was a director screening at sundance - he cut the film in premiere 6 - a lot of films were cut in premiere this year, and when she asked him what he liked about seven he laughed and said he just wanted to get his hands on it - that it was all the little refinements to the timeline more than anything. that he would encounter those refinements every minute of the day editing.

It adds up to some kind of threshold basically - I want to cut in that timeline more than I want to cut in FCP7.
Add in the 64bit performance under CUDA...

It sounds stupid in a way but that timeline just looks like a very nice place to be?

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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David LawrenceRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 8:02:25 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "It sounds stupid in a way but that timeline just looks like a very nice place to be?"





On Steroids!!! ;)

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Steve ConnorRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 8:14:10 pm

So it will be interesting to see what happens next, certainly if there isn't a big move towards Adobe I'd be surprised, they've certainly done more than enough to deserve a lot of success with it. They've certainly moved faster and further than Avid have.

Apple really should give us a roadmap for the next major update in FCPX as they did before if they really want to appeal to potential switchers.

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Sandeep SajeevRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 8:53:07 pm

I think that ship has sailed. Adobe has got this release spot on - they've addressed practically everything that was holding FCP7 editors back from making the switch.

A roadmap is just a roadmap. This release is a month away. And we're also seeing significant improvements all across the range - AE, SpeedGrade, Audition - making this a very compelling package for those who've held off on investing the time and effort into learning FCPX.

Honestly if I was looking for an NLE now, I'd pick Premiere without a moments hesitation.


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Aindreas GallagherRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 8:21:31 pm

HONEY BADGER FTW.

FOR.
THE.
WIN.

because the honey badger, honey badger don't care, it just takes what it wants..

seriously - who came up with that? was it you Lawrence? I really feel there needs to be some kind of formal acknowledgement, possibly a t-shirt?

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Walter SoykaRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 8:26:28 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "I really feel there needs to be some kind of formal acknowledgement, possibly a t-shirt?"

Aindreas, I double-dog dare you to change your COW avatar/profile pic to a Premiere purple-tinted honey badger.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
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Aindreas GallagherRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 8:31:23 pm

you are on Soyka.

I mean, you are on.

(pauses to boot up PS6.)

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Aindreas GallagherRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 8:51:41 pm

mmm.

something like this say? the language is salty, but it feels appropriate for the reddit tone of the piece....

http://imgur.com/NzrivGF

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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David LawrenceRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 8:36:27 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "seriously - who came up with that? was it you Lawrence? I really feel there needs to be some kind of formal acknowledgement, possibly a t-shirt?"

Yep, it was me :) In the first impressions review Tim W. asked me to write.

I wish Adobe would have gone with that for the quote they used on their industry reviews page, but I'm fine with what they chose, lol!

_______________________
David Lawrence
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David LawrenceRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 8:44:58 pm

BTW, Honey Badger T-shirts sound like WIN! ;)

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
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facebook.com/dlawrence
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Franz BieberkopfRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 8:52:58 pm

http://www.zazzle.ca/honey_badger_dont_care_honey_badger_dont_give_a_tshirt...

Franz.


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Aindreas GallagherRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 8:54:56 pm

NOT SHABBY.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Aindreas GallagherRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 8:53:09 pm

Lawrence you champion.

here - have this as precursor to a t-shirt or possibly embalmed animal:

http://imgur.com/NzrivGF

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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David LawrenceRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 9:36:03 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "here - have this as precursor to a t-shirt or possibly embalmed animal:

http://imgur.com/NzrivGF"


LOL, Sweet!!!

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl


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Joseph W. BourkeRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 12:02:27 am

Well, in the interest of good taste, I didn't have the Honey Badger tear up the FCPX logo.



Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Greg AndonianRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 8:42:42 pm

I know opinions will vary on this, but for me the biggest thing that stands out is the fact that the master clips no longer get duplicated when you import an alternate version of the same project that you're working on. I've collaborated with others on a couple feature-length projects that used Premiere, and this made the projects a lot more complex and messy than they needed to be, and made it a lot harder to get a good workflow going. It also meant that hard drive space was lost very unnecessarily, since each time a master clip got duplicated, the audio for the new clip had to be conformed.

Now it works the way it should, and we can just import a sequence and nothing else, and not worry about any of that- even while its being worked on by someone else!

______________________________________________
"Up until here, we still have enough track to stop the locomotive before it plunges into the ravine... But after this windmill it's the future or bust."


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Aindreas GallagherRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 9:03:07 pm

yes, that part is crazily effective. I'm slightly shocked at what they implemented there.

the amount of times I'm noodling edit elements back and forth with mograph dudes - the ability to have in out selected shots for work to be done on - in my active project - getting bagged by them while I'm editing - that is a somewhat brass ring moment.

it makes premiere enormously, enormously attractive to a huge segment of people in very common shared workflows. It really does.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Sandeep SajeevRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 9:17:40 pm

Smoke does this too. It's a godsend when it comes to preserving metadata across multiple users.

In fact the ability to save Node/CFX/Action setups etc and have them accessible to multiple users as well is fantastic...once you get used to working that way.

I'm assuming that SpeedGrade also works well with AE now? And that the whole Lumetri thing works within AE too?

This is going to make a dent into FCPX and Smoke sales. If Autodesk would just swallow their pride and stop crippling Smoke to protect Flame, then it still has a chance at being a viable purchase. But as things stand with this Adobe release, unless you are doing a lot of comping (and lets face it, then you should probably be using Nuke) there is no reason to shell out 3k + for Smoke when you can get everything you need in Production Premium.


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Aindreas GallagherRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 9:40:04 pm

[Sandeep Sajeev] "In fact the ability to save Node/CFX/Action setups etc and have them accessible to multiple users as well is fantastic...once you get used to working that way."

yep - I do genuinely get that - I started in flint back in the days of yore.
But then I quietly tiptoed away and hit up AE 3.1 on the dual pentium intergraph with pvr drive we had :)

our station design dept had crazy, crazy kit for '99.
Our chief technical guy had come from selling discreet stuff in the states. He figured TV could use some flame. We got a second hand indigo 2 extreme to run flint. mad tv kit for the time.

[Sandeep Sajeev] "I'm assuming that SpeedGrade also works well with AE now? And that the whole Lumetri thing works within AE too?"

mmmmmmm.
You'd think they would have mentioned it. let's call that for 8 eh?

If you had to pick, you'd figure getting it playing with PPro was first order priority.

speedgrade does look nice this release though.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Sandeep SajeevRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 10:12:11 pm

mmmmmmm.
You'd think they would have mentioned it. let's call that for 8 eh?

If you had to pick, you'd figure getting it playing with PPro was first order priority.


Sure, it's very clear now what the approach is - and Adobe's Dynamic Link methodology is really coming together nicely. If Lumetri isn't available for AE now, then it's definitely just a matter of time - in fact with Cloud updates coming thick and fast,you may not even have to wait until CS8 for this functionality.

So with Keylight, Mocha, Particular and C4D Lite in AE, a full fledged NLE in Premiere and a dedicated grading App in SpeedGrade - it's all there isn't it? And no need to switch between AJA and BMD for I/O and monitoring, as you need to if your workflow is NLE+Resolve+Smoke.

It's a really good time to be invested in the Adobe pipeline.


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Aindreas GallagherRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 10:37:15 pm

nah mate, no particular as of yet surely? :)

granted they bought all of maffit, the one that got us 4 colour gradient (that was cycore right?), final effects and like a million others .

I'll say the one that gets me that no one notices? - the fact that they bought grain surgery way back when - there is full blown temporal degraining in AE that can save almost any green screen before you throw keylight at it? or just rescue dodgy low light dslr?

I was reading that resolve are witholding degrain operations from free resolve, and I'm like - hey, mate? grain surgery.

when we bought it as a plugin it was over a grand.
And hilariously, its just sitting in AE with temporal analysis set off by default. granted all the old grain stock matches are gone but still - the match grain analysis for post cg elements is still there.

I love AE. love. it.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Michael GissingRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 11:29:37 pm

While I am feeling good about picking CS6 as my FCP Legend successor, I don't think I sense and extinction event of Legend just yet. The bulk of my finishing work still comes from Legend and I do see the movement to Adobe as being more common than to X. That said I don't think CS7 is going to accelerate that trend so fast that it kills Legend off. The migration is painfully slow. Editors are really clinging to FCP7.

If anything I am hearing from editors that wanting to move on from old MacPros is as much an issue. X, CS7, AVID7 are all going to squeeze Legend and although CS7 is likely the more significant player in that squeeze from now on, Legend will linger for many years.


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Charlie AustinRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 11:36:49 pm

[Michael Gissing] "Editors are really clinging to FCP7.

If anything I am hearing from editors that wanting to move on from old MacPros is as much an issue. X, CS7, AVID7 are all going to squeeze Legend and although CS7 is likely the more significant player in that squeeze from now on, Legend will linger for many years."


I agree. I see it here daily. Also, regarding the Mac Pro... FCP 7, X, CS6, and MC 6.5 all run way faster on my new loaded 27" iMac than they did on my (not terribly) old fully loaded Mac Pro. And our GFX guy is now running AE and C4D on a retina MacBook Pro. I thought he was insane, but it's been working just fine for him...

FWIW, YMMV etc...

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Aindreas GallagherRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 12:12:40 am

[Charlie Austin] "I agree. I see it here daily"

yep - in theory this is basically a perfect slide off ramp, said the PPro guy - apple are carrying a very large editing egg with FCP7 - whatever anyone (me) says snarkily, apple are really unlikely to tip FCP to the pavement with so many creatives still on board.
On a basic level, I don't think apple have that in them, given who they fundamentally are.

Win or lose, its very hard to see apple throwing out classic FCP operability in the near term unless there are structural OS problems.
you might be surprised how there are no such problems two years past EOL.

At the end of the day - Apple is actually Apple. They are likely to protect the editing software environment they created.

This is a clean field - if you like FCPX? jump and go.
If you like PPro 7 - well, you have sense. :)

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Charlie AustinRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 12:32:38 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "This is a clean field - if you like FCPX? jump and go.
If you like PPro 7 - well, you have sense. :)"


heh, well, if i were in love with FCP 7, Pr would be the logical choice. But, I'm not. I want the new hotness with the new tricks... not a younger, prettier version of the same old gal. ;-)

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Aindreas GallagherRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 12:46:02 am

[Charlie Austin] "well, if i were in love with FCP 7, Pr would be the logical choice. "

charlie mate, that there is an ad banner.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Charlie AustinRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 12:50:23 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "[Charlie Austin] "well, if i were in love with FCP 7, Pr would be the logical choice. "

charlie mate, that there is an ad banner."


OMG, you're right! Being in the marketing business, I should know that out of context quotes are always used! Here. I edited it for clarity. :-)

"well, if i were in love with the creaky old interface and fiddly controls of FCP 7, Pr would be the logical choice. "

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Jeremy GarchowRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 3:52:50 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Amen to that - seriously tho - it really looks good doesn't it?"

Adobe is working really hard, no questions about that.

I am really excited about the video out of SpeedGrade.

It looks like an FCPX offline for me with an Adobe finish if CS7 is working like I think it will.

Jeremy


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Sandeep SajeevRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 4:10:47 pm

It looks like an FCPX offline for me with an Adobe finish if CS7 is working like I think it will.

What are you finishing on at the moment Jeremy? And have you given up on Smoke?


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Jeremy GarchowRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 4:19:14 pm

[Sandeep Sajeev] "What are you finishing on at the moment Jeremy?"

Still using Color if you can believe it, audio out to ProTools.

I like Resolve, and it goes well with FCPX, but I have to use a Blackmagic device.

If there was Thunderbolt on all of my computers, I'd buy a cheap Thunderbolt monitoring device and do it in a heartbeat, but alas, there's only pesky PCIe for now and those are filled with AJA. :)

Finishing in Adobe gets me to all different kinds of tools, including an NLE if I need to make tweaks.

It will be more work to get to the Creative Suite, but I'm hoping I can make it sing.

I have let the notion of Smoke go, yes. It is an amazing application, but it's not right for what we need. It's a bit too much compositing, not enough finishing for our particular jobs. Plus, I find the edit operations to be a bit funky, and this is coming from someone who likes funky operations.

Jeremy


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Brent CookRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 3:41:50 pm

Really. I'm trying to figure out why all this PP talk is here instead of in the...I don't know...PP forum perhaps?

I'm not anti-PP at all (in fact I plan on learning it) but I come here to read about FCPX.


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+1

Charlie AustinRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 3:57:39 pm

[Brent Cook] "I'm not anti-PP at all (in fact I plan on learning it) but I come here to read about FCPX."

I agree, and I *own* PP. I think there are a lot of folks on this forum who seem to really need a familiar replacement for FCP "classic". Now that PP sort of does most of the things classic did, - some better, some at least close - There is a lot of excitement. Once it dies down, maybe all the joy will move over to the PP forums where it belongs. Or not. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Herb SevushRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 4:01:20 pm

[Charlie Austin] "There is a lot of excitement. Once it dies down, maybe all the joy will move over to the PP forums where it belongs. Or not. :-)"

The PPro forum is for people who are using PPro, this forum is for those who are thinking about using PPro, or anything else, even X.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Brent CookRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 6:27:46 pm

I don't quite get that. If I was thinking of using PP (which I am) I would go to the PP forum for my PP information (which I do). Do people who are thinking of using it require different information from those who are already using it? I would think the best place to get info would be from those who are already putting it through its paces, rather from other people like me who are interested but don't have much first hand experience.

Reminds me of something the late Mitch Hedburg said, "I play the guitar, I taught myself how to play the guitar, which was a bad decision... because I didn't know how to play it, so I was a sh**ty teacher. I would never have went to me."


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Herb SevushRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 6:33:10 pm

[Brent Cook] " Do people who are thinking of using it require different information from those who are already using it?"

Yes, if I want to discuss it in terms of how it stacks up against all my other choices, not in a vacuum.

If I want to learn something about a particular PPro feature I would go to the PPro forum, if I want to think about how PPro fits into the larger world of post production I would rather come here.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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+1

Neil GoodmanRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 8:30:42 pm

i dont use FCP X or PPRO (yet) but this is still the only forum on the cow i go to..this is where the editors are and is the most interesting forum on the net imo. And i like thats you can talk about anything and its not off topic.

Neil Goodman: Editor of New Media Production - The Esquire Network - NBC/Uni


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+3


Greg AndonianRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 9:06:31 pm

[Brent Cook] I don't quite get that. If I was thinking of using PP (which I am) I would go to the PP forum for my PP information

Well, I don't know... If I was *thinking* of using Premiere Pro, I'm not sure just talking to a bunch of Premiere users is the best approach. I could just imagine the result of that:


"Hello Premiere forum, I'm thinking of switching to Premiere. Do you think this is a good idea?"

Post 1:"Sure!"
Post 2:"You bet!"
Post 3:"Absolutely"
Post 4:"Come on in, the water's fine!"

Now of course this is an extreme example, but it seems to me that asking this question in a place like this that is inclusive of all NLEs and encourages casual conversation about them rather than focusing on the details of technical issues would be a better way to get a subjective opinion on the pros and also cons of the NLE someone might be considering.

______________________________________________
"Up until here, we still have enough track to stop the locomotive before it plunges into the ravine... But after this windmill it's the future or bust."


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+1

Brent CookRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 12:23:24 am

Ok, but to be frank, only an idiot would ask that kind of question in any forum rather than actually work with the software, see if it works for him and ask experienced users about specific concerns.


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James CulbertsonRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 2:09:24 am

[Brent Cook] "I don't quite get that. If I was thinking of using PP (which I am) I would go to the PP forum for my PP information (which I do). Do people who are thinking of using it require different information from those who are already using it? I would think the best place to get info would be from those who are already putting it through its paces, rather from other people like me who are interested but don't have much first hand experience."

Yes, if you were actually looking for Premiere info it would be logical to go the Premiere forum. This forum is for those folks who are still resistant to the fact that a lot of editors are using FCPX for Pro work (and that for better or worse we will be living in a fractured NLE world for a long time),... and there are a good number of lookyloos like me that can't turn away from the spectacle of it all.


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Steve ConnorRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 6:04:03 pm

[Charlie Austin] "Once it dies down, maybe all the joy will move over to the PP forums where it belongs. Or not. :-)"

I believe the most joyful amongst us are already spreading their happiness over there too

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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+1

Aindreas GallagherRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 8:06:36 pm

yep. I'm wandering around a few PPro forums now.

That sound you hear there is the flapping of lots and lots and lots of wings - there is very probably about to be a mass migration.
Hogarth worldwide - I can now say - are on board with PPro, they're on the adobe website formally endorsing anywhere after extensive, exhaustive, internal testing.

Hogarth are pretty huge and a major player in London, they feed and manage facility capacity into tons of firms - worldwide they are in the 500-1000 employees range.
They're going premiere as of 7. They were FCP based.

I reckon its a done deal this overall to some extent. That thing actually might as well be FCP8 with warp drives attached.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Walter SoykaRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 3:59:50 pm

[Brent Cook] "Really. I'm trying to figure out why all this PP talk is here instead of in the...I don't know...PP forum perhaps? I'm not anti-PP at all (in fact I plan on learning it) but I come here to read about FCPX."

Brent, there is some ongoing discussion in the Premiere Pro forum as well.

This forum is named "FCPX or Not: The Debate,", so although FCPX is the only NLE in the name, many here argue that everyone else falls under "or not." Avid, Adobe, Autodesk, EditShare -- all the NLE developers seem to get some discussion time here. This is about the only place on the COW where software is discussed broadly and comparatively; the other forums tend to be more narrowly focused on the issues of actually using specific pieces of software.

In other words, what may count as noise in other forums is signal here.

Personally, I think that discussions about Premiere are relevant in a forum that exists to compare NLEs.

If you only want to hear more about using FCPX exclusively, try the FCPX Techniques forum [link]. There's plenty of pretty high-quality discussion about the software there.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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+4


Charlie AustinRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 4:04:00 pm

[Walter Soyka] "This is about the only place on the COW where software is discussed broadly and comparatively; the other forums tend to be more narrowly focused on the issues of actually using specific pieces of software."

Good point. And I think folks who were hoping for a replacement for 7's traditional timeline have a reason to be excited this week.

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Joseph W. BourkeRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 4:13:46 pm

Personally, it's the ebb and flow of this forum which keeps it interesting. One day, it's all about FCPX, the next it's PPro or AVID. I like that I can keep my finger on the pulse of our profession, and see where, at least from a small sample, things are going. I like hearing opinions which differ from my own, and, as a one man shop, find that the ideas being generated here help my decision-making down the road. I've been a PPro user for upwards of 4 years now, but I also do animation work for a number of clients who are FCP7 based (still), and are planning on staying right where they are - until, of course, the clock runs out...

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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+1

Walter SoykaRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 4:16:16 pm

[Charlie Austin] "And I think folks who were hoping for a replacement for 7's traditional timeline have a reason to be excited this week."

This is a good point -- there are a lot of FCP7 refugees here.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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David CherniackRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 4:28:06 pm

[Walter Soyka] " there are a lot of FCP7 refugees here."

And some of us just enjoy the intelligence and wit that often peeks through the fog and FUD that normally settles here.

David
http://AllinOneFilms.com


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Bernard NewnhamRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 4:37:35 pm

Of course, he said, trolling a bit - once you've gone PPro you don't need Macs any more and can not only save lots of money but also have the latest gear any time you want.

B

Bernie


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+1

Richard CardonnaRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 4:58:31 pm

I llke this forum kinda reminds me of the old discreet edit* forums, all 3. In the sense that everyrhing was discussed.

Richard


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Herb SevushRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 5:54:05 pm

[Richard Cardonna] "this forum kinda reminds me of the old discreet edit* forums"

Yes it does, all we need is Ron Shook.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Steve ConnorRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 5:55:43 pm

[Herb Sevush] "Yes it does, all we need is Ron Shook."

There's a familiar name from the past!

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Richard CardonnaRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 6:59:23 pm

Yes Mr. FIdel Castro look alike. Their are may e edit* users here deapite the rans many ga

ve about fcp back in the first days of fcp. and David Wrath shows up ocasionaly. whatever happened to Sutha Kamal? is Ron Shook Shook still around.?

Richard


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Herb SevushRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 7:05:13 pm

[Richard Cardonna] " is Ron Shook Shook still around.?"

Haven't seen a post by him in many years. The last thing I saw he was involved with some sort of low rider bicycle low-carbon footprint alternative (I kid you not, he had a video of himself driving around Chicago with it.) I always thought of him as the Ben Cartwright of the *edit forum (for those of you old enough to have seen Bonanza.)

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Peter CorbettRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 15, 2013 at 6:48:40 am

[Richard Cardonna] "I llke this forum kinda reminds me of the old discreet edit* forums, all 3. In the sense that everyrhing was discussed.

Richard"


I sometimes pine for my edit* with it's power-packed dual Pentium Pro 200 Netserver (>$60K) loaded with it's huge $2,500 9gb HP hard drives.

Actually no I don't at all...

The greatest thing about Premiere has to be you can dump any format/frame rate on the timeline and start working with it natively. The log transfer/proxy QT thing drove me nuts on FCP7, especially when we shipped projects to other shops and the whole damn project had to be re-log/transferred because the QT render conversions had got lost along the way. I don't know why so many FCP users (not here) are either;

a) afraid of Premiere
b) hate it outright
c) or bag it out as amateur/film school stuff

It's moved along in leaps and bounds since CS5.

Peter Corbett
Powerhouse Productions
http://www.php.com.au


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Steve ConnorRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 6:06:57 pm

[Bernard Newnham] "once you've gone PPro you don't need Macs any more and can not only save lots of money but also have the latest gear any time you want.
"


Couldn't resist eh? :)

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Brent CookRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 7:15:25 pm

[Walter Soyka] "If you only want to hear more about using FCPX exclusively, try the FCPX Techniques forum [link]. There's plenty of pretty high-quality discussion about the software there."

I definitely do hit up the techniques forum. Good stuff in there.


[Walter Soyka] "This forum is named "FCPX or Not: The Debate,", so although FCPX is the only NLE in the name, many here argue that everyone else falls under "or not.""

I guess it would be less confusing if the name was more NLE ambiguous. To me "FCPX or Not" implies arguments for or against FCPX, including discussion of other NLE's but discussed in direct correlation to FCPX, otherwise why have it in the name? Why not have a General NLE forum and a FCPX forum where FCPX news is shared along with whatever other discussion outside of specific techniques?

Anyway...didn't mean to start something here. I think this has been discussed to death before. The barrage of PP threads kind of annoyed me since FCPX is my NLE of choice right now (remains to be seen if this is a good decision) and as a new editor I'm trying to absorb as much as can specific to that before I learn other software.


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Charlie AustinRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 7:35:16 pm

[Brent Cook] "FCPX is my NLE of choice right now (remains to be seen if this is a good decision) and as a new editor I'm trying to absorb as much as can specific to that before I learn other software."

As an old editor, ;-) I'd suggest learning as much software as you can. X and PP are inexpensive, and even MC is approaching affordability. Not only does it make you more "valuable" as an editor, but it also gives you a truly informed way to make a decision as to what you prefer. Opinions help, but the "opinionaters" may not have the same needs and preferences as you. For me, the more I use other NLE's, the more I prefer X. Clearly there are opposing views, but my decision is based on actual, real world use of the other options.

At the very least, you should get all the free trials of other apps and get to know them.

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Sandeep SajeevRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 8:36:54 pm

Depending on the market you're in, one can make the argument that it might be more valuable to expand your skillset so you can handle things like keying, tracking, grading etc on the picture side and sound design/sweetening on the audio side of post.

Being able to handle these things to a high level may make you more valuable than just being able to accomplish less albeit on multiple NLE's.


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+1


Brent CookRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 12:35:49 am

[Charlie Austin] "As an old editor, ;-) I'd suggest learning as much software as you can."

For sure. I actually have PP CS6 so I'll be delving into that before too long. I guess I'm getting my feet wet in editing with FCPX. Since good editing isn't dependent on any particular NLE, I don't suppose it matters what I start with.


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Walter SoykaRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 7:55:15 pm

[Brent Cook] "guess it would be less confusing if the name was more NLE ambiguous. To me "FCPX or Not" implies arguments for or against FCPX, including discussion of other NLE's but discussed in direct correlation to FCPX, otherwise why have it in the name? Why not have a General NLE forum and a FCPX forum where FCPX news is shared along with whatever other discussion outside of specific techniques?"

As with all things on this forum, there's even disagreement about what it should be called! :)

I do understand your point, but I don't think the genie will go back in the bottle anytime soon. I think you'll be stuck with some threads you don't care to read for some time to come.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Michael GissingRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 11:07:22 pm

[Brent Cook] "guess it would be less confusing if the name was more NLE ambiguous. To me "FCPX or Not" implies arguments for or against FCPX, including discussion of other NLE's but discussed in direct correlation to FCPX, otherwise why have it in the name? Why not have a General NLE forum and a FCPX forum where FCPX news is shared along with whatever other discussion outside of specific techniques?"

Only people new to this forum make this request. Each time the balance of opinion from the forum stalwarts is that the name change is not important and after a few days new posters get into the swing. The quirky name, born from a moment two years ago, becomes irrelevant until a new poster raises the same issue and we shrug and move on.

If it mattered the name would have been changed long ago.


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Brent CookRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 1:12:52 am

[Michael Gissing] "Only people new to this forum make this request. Each time the balance of opinion from the forum stalwarts is that the name change is not important and after a few days new posters get into the swing. The quirky name, born from a moment two years ago, becomes irrelevant until a new poster raises the same issue and we shrug and move on.

If it mattered the name would have been changed long ago."


So if it confuses new users to the forum what does that tell you about the name? I've actually been reading these forums for a while now (I just don't have a lot to contribute) and I still don't think the name is accurate. It's all about effective communication. Of course old forum users don't care because they know what goes on in here. The title isn't for them. It's for people scouring the hundreds and hundreds of megabytes ;) of information on the internet looking for what they need. Whether you think it matters or not, FCPX or Not is not an accurate description of what is discussed in here most the of time. I don't lose sleep over it. That's just what I think about it.


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Andy FieldRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 5:12:43 pm

Why all the PP Talk here and not the PP Forum?

because FCP 7 refugees appear to be this forum's most frequent visitors -- and despite the FCP X fans, the FCP 7 veterans desperately want the look and feel of the old program with the speed and efficiency that PP CS7 offers. I've been privileged to test the soon to be released version of PP7 for several months and it really is everything we wanted FCP 8 to be ..and more.

Andy Field
FieldVision Productions
N. Bethesda, Maryland 20852


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+1

Charlie AustinRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 5:21:57 pm

[Andy Field] "and despite the FCP X fans, the FCP 7 veterans desperately want the look and feel of the old program with the speed and efficiency that PP CS7 offers."

Despite the FCPX fans? lol I think it's true that some fcp 7 veterans desperately want the look and feel of the old program. And some of us want something new. Lots of choices for editors now.

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Andy FieldRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 5:46:59 pm

"Despite the FCPX Fans? LOL"

There isn't a nit that isn't picked on this forum....a refreshing change from that reading the snark free discussion here this week about PP7.

Andy Field
FieldVision Productions
N. Bethesda, Maryland 20852


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Charlie AustinRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 5:51:59 pm

[Andy Field] ""Despite the FCPX Fans? LOL"

There isn't a nit that isn't picked on this forum....a refreshing change from that reading the snark free discussion here this week about PP7."


Sorry if I misread your tone. Also, When has there been a snark free discussion of anything here? :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Chris HarlanRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 1:08:09 am

[Charlie Austin] "Sorry if I misread your tone. Also, When has there been a snark free discussion of anything here? :-)"

And by that you mean what?


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Charlie AustinRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 1:16:40 am

[Chris Harlan] "[Charlie Austin] "Sorry if I misread your tone. Also, When has there been a snark free discussion of anything here? :-)"

And by that you mean what?"


This, of course...







Oh, wait, that was sarcasm. Lemme find a picture of that... hold on... ;-)

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Chris HarlanRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 2:36:41 am

Dang. Those boosters can hurt when they fall.


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Joseph OwensRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 12, 2013 at 1:02:10 am

If you follow this YouTube link about the SNARK, also have a look at the USAF training film entitled "Ejection Decision". It provides some very entertaining advice about when to bail. That is.... early.

I also don't understand the enthusiasm for Speedgrade. Seems kind of dead in the water. I even went back over to some of the booths that were still running Resolve 9 and amazingly, even it felt a little bit clunky compared to the 10 release... so I will be bailing on 9, the second 10 is released.

And although I own Creative Suite, its very unlikely that Speedgrade will ever even be booted on my system. One issue is the Blackmagic non-support for Video I/O, but really, even the somewhat enthusiastic show floor demo was ??????? uh.... that's it?????? Not even "meh".... it can aspire to "meh."

jPo

"I always pass on free advice -- its never of any use to me" Oscar Wilde.


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Jeremy GarchowRe: Call me crazy if you want... but I know an imminent extinction when I see one. :)
by on Apr 13, 2013 at 12:42:56 pm

[Joseph Owens] "I also don't understand the enthusiasm for Speedgrade. Seems kind of dead in the water. I even went back over to some of the booths that were still running Resolve 9 and amazingly, even it felt a little bit clunky compared to the 10 release... so I will be bailing on 9, the second 10 is released.

And although I own Creative Suite, its very unlikely that Speedgrade will ever even be booted on my system. One issue is the Blackmagic non-support for Video I/O, but really, even the somewhat enthusiastic show floor demo was ??????? uh.... that's it?????? Not even "meh".... it can aspire to "meh.""


It has certainly been a slow uptake.

How many video pros so you know has the $4,000 nvidia daughter card to properly run SpeedGrade?

I know exactly zero.

But that being said, I've kept my eye on it, and Adobe is working hard at it.

There are many things I like about it, functionally as a grading system, and some areas (like import and export!) need some help.

I see that Adobe is taking steps to get SpeedGrade connected in to the suite.

I'm sure it will only get better.

Resolve 10 sounds good too.

Jeremy


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