Creative COW SIGN IN :: SPONSORS :: ADVERTISING :: ABOUT US :: CONTACT US :: FAQ
Creative COW's LinkedIn GroupCreative COW's Facebook PageCreative COW on TwitterCreative COW's Google+ PageCreative COW on YouTube
APPLE FINAL CUT PRO:HomeFCP ForumFCP XFCPX TechniquesFCP TutorialsFC ServerBasics ForumPodcastFAQ

Difference Between Final cut pro and Final cut pro x...

COW Forums : Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Share on Facebook
Soorya Bandara | Sun™Difference Between Final cut pro and Final cut pro x...
by on Nov 11, 2012 at 11:49:53 am

What is the difference Between Final cut pro and Final cut pro x?


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Bill DavisRe: Difference Between Final cut pro and Final cut pro x...
by on Nov 11, 2012 at 4:43:01 pm

About $700.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  
-1

Soorya Bandara | Sun™Re: Difference Between Final cut pro and Final cut pro x...
by on Jan 25, 2013 at 4:34:31 am

Thanks... :)


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


Craig SeemanRe: Difference Between Final cut pro and Final cut pro x...
by on Nov 11, 2012 at 4:54:48 pm

That would require a book more than a forum post. It's kind of like asking what's the difference between an orange and aardvark. Some would say FCPX is decidedly the aardvark in that example.

This is Apple's official detail on your question. You should read it. Distilled to 24 pages.
http://images.apple.com/finalcutpro/docs/Final_Cut_Pro_X_for_Final_Cut_Pro_...

Project organizing vs Event organizing is very different.
The timeline which is trackless and magnetic is very different.
The communication between FCPX and Motion is different.
Of those functions in common, FCPX is generally improved (with some exception) in areas like Multicam, Titling, Chroma Keying, timeline diversity of codec and frame rate support.


For the most part, the two NLEs have nothing more than the name in common. It's different codebase with different design intent and execution.



Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Rafael AmadorRe: Difference Between Final cut pro and Final cut pro x...
by on Nov 11, 2012 at 5:18:04 pm

The main difference is that you need to be a kind of genius to understand FCPX.
FCP is for more limited and short minded people. Like my self.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  
+2

Craig SeemanRe: Difference Between Final cut pro and Final cut pro x...
by on Nov 11, 2012 at 5:24:46 pm

[Rafael Amador] "The main difference is that you need to be a kind of genius to understand FCPX."

Not a genius, one just needs to understand Apple's NLE equivalent of Esperanto.

In many respects it's a language unto itself. I think it's a very good language. It draws from many sources but the some total of the experience can be very different.

It's much easier to describe the differences between FCP legacy, Premiere Pro, Media Composer than to describe the differences between any of them and FCPX succinctly. The differences can be described. One may well read this entire forum end to end to see the discussion of the differences.



Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


cem yildirimRe: Difference Between Final cut pro and Final cut pro x...
by on Nov 11, 2012 at 6:30:59 pm

I have to disagree with that. My students learn much faster to edit on FCP X now.

http://www.cemyildirim.i8.com


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Craig SeemanRe: Difference Between Final cut pro and Final cut pro x...
by on Nov 11, 2012 at 6:45:52 pm

I believe FCPX is much more intuitive to the new Editor.

I suspect those rooted in "convention" have a harder time unlearning which is why we see comments claiming FCPX is hard to grok by some.



Return to posts index
Reply   Like  
-4

Aindreas GallagherRe: Difference Between Final cut pro and Final cut pro x...
by on Nov 12, 2012 at 1:44:34 pm

[Craig Seeman] "I suspect those rooted in "convention" have a harder time unlearning which is why we see comments claiming FCPX is hard to grok by some."

FCPX is not hard to grok Craig - not at all, and frankly there is a canard in all this guff from you and bill about it being fresh and intuitive on the one hand, but on the other, that people who disparage it are missing some mystical insight (Bill is unbelievably bad here) and that it is their lack of comprehension that leads to their criticism.

This is, as the man says - passive aggressive, you are using a false assertion to state that those who disagree with you are intellectually inferior, unable to grasp the things that you yourself have mastered. In Bill's case it allows him to self aggrandise his own insights and opinions, while questioning the intellectual elasticity of those who disagree with him. that said, if we didn't let bill do that here, he would have to start feeding his urge to proselytise FCPX and the brilliance of his insights out in the real world, with unprepared strangers in supermarket queues say - so best he gets the outlet here perhaps.

the bottom line is that it is a false assertion - you know your way around it better than me, because you have used it more than me, you have a gut intimacy with it because you have used it in anger (have you?) but that aside - I've been over this software a lot and you have no insight that escapes me Craig, you are no smarter than those who disagree with you, and you have no reserved insight with regard to FCPX. There is nothing that has occurred to you about this software that would not casually occur to me, or any number of other people on this forum. We simply disagree with you as to the worth of this software.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  
+8


Steve ConnorRe: Difference Between Final cut pro and Final cut pro x...
by on Nov 12, 2012 at 4:28:32 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] " I've been over this software a lot and you have no insight that escapes me Craig, you are no smarter than those who disagree with you, and you have no reserved insight with regard to FCPX. There is nothing that has occurred to you about this software that would not casually occur to me, or any number of other people on this forum. We simply disagree with you as to the worth of this software."

Are you currently so flushed with confidence after your "victory" over Jeremy on the PIOP thing that you claim the same insight about the intricacies of FCPX as us who use the software?

Steve Connor
'It's just my opinion, with an occasional fact thrown in for good measure"


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Aindreas GallagherRe: Difference Between Final cut pro and Final cut pro x...
by on Nov 12, 2012 at 5:19:01 pm

don't be silly - you know what I'm saying above - we all have brains, we're all editors - you don't know anything about that software on a fundamental level that I don't know, the fact that you've been in the wars with it notwithstanding.
I've dicked around with every part of it, I've grown to hate its handling of audio and waveforms with a deep abiding passion, i've grown to love the cc stuff with masking, I think the timeline is a joke, I think ranges are restrictive, I think a single superbin is restrictive, etc etc - this isn't a forum of FCPX users having to explain to other people why they don't get it - although you would very much like it to be that forum, its not.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  
+5

Steve ConnorRe: Difference Between Final cut pro and Final cut pro x...
by on Nov 12, 2012 at 5:50:06 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "don't be silly - you know what I'm saying above - we all have brains, we're all editors - you don't know anything about that software on a fundamental level that I don't know, the fact that you've been in the wars with it notwithstanding.
"


Of course you do, you've "dicked around" with it.


[Aindreas Gallagher] " this isn't a forum of FCPX users having to explain to other people why they don't get it - although you would very much like it to be that forum, its not."

Don't tell me what I would like this forum to be, you're starting to sound like Bill!

Steve Connor
'It's just my opinion, with an occasional fact thrown in for good measure"


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


Aindreas GallagherRe: Difference Between Final cut pro and Final cut pro x...
by on Nov 12, 2012 at 5:54:36 pm

no Steve - I AM BILL.


bomm bomm boohhhhhhmmmmmm.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  
+3

Aindreas GallagherRe: Difference Between Final cut pro and Final cut pro x...
by on Nov 12, 2012 at 10:14:25 pm

[Steve Connor] "Of course you do, you've "dicked around" with it."

actually I'll go one better - I'll give you an example.

When I go to trim a connected clip - extend it say - not really enter any trim mode per se - simply drag the outpoint, the detail view in FCPX shows me the clip out connected, and the underlying in point on the primary, or the connected clip below.

that's really, really, really nice.

lots of people edit topographically in FCP, but because it is universally tracked based as opposed to A-B fixed to primary, it's not in a position, semantically, to provide that kind of dependent feedback - I very much enjoy getting that kind of knights move feedback - that feels interesting and smart. I would love to know what exactly i'm hitting below in FCP or premiere.

but the cost for these cosy bungalow furnishings is immense - as I said with regard to ranges, apple have an object only timeline, dependent on the existence of the primary - I know it was a niche point steve, but it is notable that, if your secondary overhangs the primary at the tail -
you are no longer in a position to set in and out points.
that's unusual.

so here's a census now - hands up all editors who think it is a problem that in and out point taget selection operates on one single track.

would you look at that show of hands.

Apple have demolished the editing timeline down to a phrase style "secondary" "connected" nub around the primary, and only the primary can accept in out edit commands.

that is beyond problematic.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  
+3

Steve ConnorRe: Difference Between Final cut pro and Final cut pro x...
by on Nov 12, 2012 at 11:07:18 pm

I understand it may be problematic for you but it's not problematic for me or the many people here that use it.

Seriously Aindreas I know my craft as well as you and the FCPX timeline does not hinder me practicing it in any way, on the whole it makes it easier.

I think we've been here before, I'm probably going to stop here, nothing new in these arguments any more!

Steve Connor
'It's just my opinion, with an occasional fact thrown in for good measure"


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


Aindreas GallagherRe: Difference Between Final cut pro and Final cut pro x...
by on Nov 12, 2012 at 11:28:26 pm

totally cool - seriously tho - you really don't miss open track timeline operation for the construction of the edit?
I'm not kidding steve, I kick FCPX open most days, lately I'm trying to do my reel in it - I find the timeline almost impossible to accept given all the avenues gone? no probs stepping away from old argumentative ground - but just to re-iterate, its not needing to get ahold of what I'm being offered - at all - its not being able to accept the absence of the multiplicity of approach and thought process available inside what I would term a true disinterested timeline.

for my money that's editing - that real, "I am indifferent to what is happening here within me, I will simply keep absolute time and count tracks" timeline umpire represents the only valid broad field for individual editing expression.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Steve ConnorRe: Difference Between Final cut pro and Final cut pro x...
by on Nov 13, 2012 at 12:49:17 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "you really don't miss open track timeline operation for the construction of the edit? "

I know it's hard to believe but I prefer it to open track, I don't miss fixed tracks at all. I like clip connections, adding secondary story lines above narrative in the primary and the flexibility that allows me with broll. For me It gives a much better fluidity in organising and moving story elements in groups around the timeline, I feel I can experiment with structure more without disrupting an already complex edit. For me it's all about when to use and when to ignore the primary.

I've done a broad range of projects in it over the last year and I haven't once felt that it FCPX was working against me, well no more than any other NLE does.

However this is just my experience, I'm not particularly disciplined when I start putting timelines together, I just like to wade in and get "down and dirty" with my projects, the organisational capabilities of FCPX are great but they aren't the things I like best about it.

As I've said before I can fully understand why others wouldn't like the timeline in FCPX, I just hope Apple don't listen to the dissenting voices and we end up with a bastardised version of the timeline which tries to incorporate fixed tracks in a way that changes it's current operation.

You have PPro if you want FCP8

Steve Connor
'It's just my opinion, with an occasional fact thrown in for good measure"


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Craig SeemanRe: Difference Between Final cut pro and Final cut pro x...
by on Nov 12, 2012 at 7:04:42 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "This is, as the man says - passive aggressive, you are using a false assertion to state that those who disagree with you are intellectually inferior,"

It has nothing to do with intelligence which is specifically why I used the word "grok" which is on a different level (as used by ScFI writer Robert Heinlen).

I'd also go back to the language analogy. Children pick up their first language naturally. Then as one gets older it seems to be much more difficult for most people to learn a new language. Even knowing the second language isn't quite the same as the first. As a long ago friend from another country once said to the effect, I know English because I'm now dreaming in it. Basically when you no longer need the "inner translator" you have an internalized, rather than translated, sense of the language.

I believe the same holds true for many skills and young people who have no prior advanced NLE skills seem to take to FCPX very quickly as I'm hearing from many instructors and trainers. They aren't more intelligent. They are less encumbered though.



Return to posts index
Reply   Like  
-1


Aindreas GallagherRe: Difference Between Final cut pro and Final cut pro x...
by on Nov 12, 2012 at 7:15:47 pm

[Craig Seeman] "many skills and young people who have no prior advanced NLE skills seem to take to FCPX very quickly as I'm hearing from many instructors and trainers."

and welcome once again, to craigs Gallup census of, you know, some people he talked to somewhere, about many other people somewhere, and the important thing is they're all down with FCPX... ok some snark there.

[Craig Seeman] "They aren't more intelligent. They are less encumbered though."

craig - they're using a massively reduced timeline - in my view, its the primary sin of FCPX. its simpler because its crassly simplistic and automated.
Its not a virtue, its an error.

And they can like it all they want, but if they want a job, they need to learn Avid, and premiere - in that order.

Four premiere pro only positions on Mandy worldwide this week. new record there. not a single FCPX position advertised on mandy in the last 18 months.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  
+3

Franz BieberkopfRe: Difference Between Final cut pro and Final cut pro x...
by on Nov 12, 2012 at 7:21:06 pm

[Craig Seeman] "I believe the same holds true for many skills and young people who have no prior advanced NLE skills seem to take to FCPX very quickly as I'm hearing from many instructors and trainers. They aren't more intelligent. They are less encumbered though."

Craig,

It might be that they are "less encumbered". Or it might be that FCPX re-enforces the conventions they know already (which I guess in your language would be "re-enforcing their encumbrance" or something). So it seems more familiar to their imaginings of what editing is.

FCPX is built on an A/B conception of editing which is a well developed and pervasive convention. It is also a simple idea which is easy to teach and easy to learn.

Or it might be something else.

Or it might be some anecdotes and vague generalizations.

But all this speed talk again (except where it takes "six months" to learn) - and little indication (once again) of what people find "faster".

Franz.


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Bill DavisRe: Difference Between Final cut pro and Final cut pro x...
by on Nov 12, 2012 at 8:01:17 pm

[Franz Bieberkopf] "But all this speed talk again (except where it takes "six months" to learn) "

Before this becomes yet another stupid "mini-meme" let me try to derail it up front.

I think I was the person who first noted the six month figure.

I was NOT saying it takes "six months to learn how to use FCP-X" at ALL.

I was noting that like every other complex NLE - X takes months to MASTER.

I've always felt that one of the signature issues with X is that since it entered the market as inexpensive, downloadable, and controversial - part of which is that in the beginning, a cadre of highly experienced editors argued loudly that it was "dumbed down" from where Legacy was at that time.

Many felt that those meant that the program was somehow "simple" as well.

It's not. At all.

The truth from my perspective is simply this.

If you're a highly experienced editor who's been conditioned over years that NLE operations happen in a certain way - it takes significant concentration to break those old expectations to allow the way X operates to become second nature.

If you're new to NLE editing - the curve is lessoned since you're not fighting pre-conceptions.

And most critical, X is a surprisingly DEEP software product. (Exactly as Legacy was!) that rewards constant use and study.

I'd expect it to be "usable" for simple editing tasks for most users (and especially those without pre-conceptions!) for basic editing tasks in a week or so.

After a month, most of the basics will be in place and you can function with it quite well.

After six months or so - depending on your dedication, the tool should be second nature and feel as natural for editing as any other NLE.

And after eighteen months or so, you shouldn't be surprised if you're STILL learning to master some of the deeper and more complex processes built into the program.

That's the reality as I experienced it.

YMMV.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  
+1


Bret WilliamsRe: Difference Between Final cut pro and Final cut pro x...
by on Nov 13, 2012 at 3:00:21 am

Your Math May Vary. It hasn't even been out 17 months. :)


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Craig SeemanRe: Difference Between Final cut pro and Final cut pro x...
by on Nov 11, 2012 at 5:19:52 pm

I'd ask what motivates your question. It's abstract without context. Wouldn't your needs be far more important than the differences?

Given Apple has documented the difference and there's a plethora of training, some of which is even free, on the internet, I'd ask why do you find that inadequate? If we knew what you found lacking in information we could fill in the gaps.



Return to posts index
Reply   Like  
-2

Aindreas GallagherRe: Difference Between Final cut pro and Final cut pro x...
by on Nov 11, 2012 at 6:22:42 pm

nothing big - some settings changed, remapped the keyboard slightly.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  
+7


Rafael AmadorRe: Difference Between Final cut pro and Final cut pro x...
by on Nov 12, 2012 at 3:09:08 am

[Craig Seeman] "Not a genius, one just needs to understand Apple's NLE equivalent of Esperanto.

In many respects it's a language unto itself. I think it's a very good language. It draws from many sources but the some total of the experience can be very different."

You are right Craig. FCPX implies the need to learn a language and a bunch of concepts, and without understanding of those, you are off the game.
Somebody (just to rant) compared FCP with Tetris. Ok lets accept that. You don't need to learn no language to play Tetris.

[Craig Seeman] "I believe FCPX is much more intuitive to the new Editor...I suspect those rooted in "convention" have a harder time unlearning which is why we see comments claiming FCPX is hard to grok by some."
You are right. When you are used to a few old simple logic and solid convention to accept a bunch of uncertain, unproved lab designed conventions is not that easy. When you are new and experienceless and you have no arguments to compare one with the other, you take whatever they give you.
I can accept whatever adjective in favor of FCPX, except "intuitive".

[cem yildirim] "I have to disagree with that. My students learn much faster to edit on FCP X now."
Did the ever tried to learn FCP?

rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  
+1

cem yildirimRe: Difference Between Final cut pro and Final cut pro x...
by on Nov 15, 2012 at 10:37:47 pm

[Rafael Amador] "Did the ever tried to learn FCP?
"


I used to teach FCP 7 until this semester then we switched to FCP 10 recently. Although not the same students, but same student profile and they are learning much faster.

http://www.cemyildirim.i8.com


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Aindreas GallagherRe: Difference Between Final cut pro and Final cut pro x...
by on Nov 16, 2012 at 12:51:34 am

[cem yildirim] "same student profile and they are learning much faster.
"



not to be pedantic - but with regard to the reduced bite size descriptions of editing process provided by FCPX - secondary storyline, auto connecting clips -

what exactly are they learning here? is this FCPX training fit to be tested by a complex narrative dialogue problem say, in the future, within a fully exposed track timeline, presented to them in a competing, full track editing system seat?

or is it all going to magically become an FCPX methodology world?

are they simply to presume they are going to meet the cosy A/B primary timeline of FCPX whenever they look for employment?

Is FCPX training applicable to Avid, Premiere or other true track timelines?

does FCPX methodology present a valid transferrable skills base, for the paying student, that plays well across the employer base? Given that no jobs are being posted for it?

what is being provided here for the student? Outside of completely one off apple methodology that has no employer market traction?

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


James CulbertsonRe: Difference Between Final cut pro and Final cut pro x...
by on Nov 16, 2012 at 1:20:40 am

I learned to edit on a Sony switcher and Amiga toaster system. The hard part was learning to tell stories. Learning how to push buttons on an AVID later on was a minor learning chore in comparison.

Why would FCPX to AVID be any different?


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  
+1

cem yildirimRe: Difference Between Final cut pro and Final cut pro x...
by on Nov 16, 2012 at 10:09:54 pm

[James Culbertson] "The hard part was learning to tell stories. Learning how to push buttons on an AVID later on was a minor learning chore in comparison.

Why would FCPX to AVID be any different?
"


Exactly! I don't get that either. There is source footage, and there is timeline!

http://www.cemyildirim.i8.com


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Franz BieberkopfRe: Difference Between Final cut pro and Final cut pro x...
by on Nov 16, 2012 at 4:43:08 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "what exactly are they learning here?"

Aindreas,

A/B editing as a conceptual foundation is quite common in a lot of broadcast. I suspect learning FCPX will quite solidify this conception.

I would be concerned that, as students of editing, they may be quite baffled by the idea that there is any other conceptual foundation to editing. Education raises interesting questions about this (see the posts above about what to teach next ...)

Franz.


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


cem yildirimRe: Difference Between Final cut pro and Final cut pro x...
by on Nov 16, 2012 at 9:59:20 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "s FCPX training applicable to Avid, Premiere or other true track timelines"

When I started learning editing there was not any "NLE" , only "tape to tape linear editing". Then im my whole professional life I've cut in Avid, FCP, Premiere, DS Nitris and now in FCPX. So tell me how "tape to tape linear editing" is applicable any of those?

[Aindreas Gallagher] "what exactly are they learning here?"

They learning to tell their stories, and FCP X is very efficient tool on that!

[Aindreas Gallagher] "s this FCPX training fit to be tested by a complex narrative dialogue problem "

They have been cutting dialog scenes.

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Given that no jobs are being posted for it?

what is being provided here for the student? Outside of completely one off apple methodology that has no employer market traction?"


When legacy FCP came out, how much employer market was there, and then what happened, you tell me? And how much is there for Premiere right now? And also, The student is provided not to be an expert on a particular software but to learn to edit and tell stories and as a school we decided to switch to FCP X and we are not the only film school doing that in the world. ( Oh maybe you should also warn them against that evil thing) :)
I believe you already know the fact that everything changes in our industry, and being so conservative and resisting it ( like hating a particular software and a company) won't do any good for us!

http://www.cemyildirim.i8.com


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Craig SeemanRe: Difference Between Final cut pro and Final cut pro x...
by on Nov 16, 2012 at 10:57:16 pm

I am beginning to see a few facilities looking for FCPX freelancers. Yes it is rare but as time marches on it will grow.



Return to posts index
Reply   Like  
+1

Jason PorthouseRe: Difference Between Final cut pro and Final cut pro x...
by on Nov 12, 2012 at 10:15:16 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "nothing big - some settings changed, remapped the keyboard slightly."

OK you owe me a new keyboard now. It wasn't fair letting me read that just as I'd taken a mouthful of coffee.

;-)

_________________________________

Before you criticise a man, walk a mile in his shoes.
Then when you do criticise him, you'll be a mile away. And have his shoes.

*the artist formally known as Jaymags*


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  
+1


Aindreas GallagherRe: Difference Between Final cut pro and Final cut pro x...
by on Nov 12, 2012 at 8:38:11 pm

tee hee.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

James CulbertsonRe: Difference Between Final cut pro and Final cut pro x...
by on Nov 12, 2012 at 6:56:06 pm

FCP legacy is to FCPX as AVID MC was to FCP legacy when FCP legacy first came out.

Some people loved it and dove in, others hated it. Others hated it for a couple of versions and dove in later. Same as it ever was...


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  
+2

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Share on Facebook


FORUMSTUTORIALSFEATURESVIDEOSPODCASTSEVENTSSERVICESNEWSLETTERNEWSBLOGS

Creative COW LinkedIn Group Creative COW Facebook Page Creative COW on Twitter
© 2014 CreativeCOW.net All rights are reserved. - Privacy Policy

[Top]