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Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate??? why?

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willy pimentelApple FCPX or Not: The Debate??? why?
by on Nov 5, 2012 at 11:38:23 pm

Why is this category named “Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate” ??
FCP X Has had some time out and for most i feel it is not a debate anymore. It is a new Program that requires some getting used to and y this time we should have made up our minds if we want to upgrade or not. I feel it is a negative connotation and a disrespectul nameto apple and to the many users who have learned and adjusted to this program. THis section should be called FCPX.

Willy Pimentel
Motion Graphics Editor
Macbook Pro 2011 thunderbolt/ TBolt Displey/ 2 SSD Hds /lacie Tbolt


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Neil GoodmanRe: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate??? why?
by on Nov 6, 2012 at 12:20:25 am

sorry but i disagree..more people are still trying to figure out if this software will work for them and there workflows, than there are people who have committed to using it full-time. At least here on the cow. So i say, let the debate continue. Not too mention ive learned more from this forum about FCX and other NLES than i have anywhere on the net.

Neil Goodman: Editor of New Media Production - NBC/Universal


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Tim WilsonRe: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate??? why?
by on Nov 6, 2012 at 12:24:36 am

[Neil Goodman] "Not to mention ive learned more from this forum about FCX and other NLES than i have anywhere on the net."

I think you're kind of both right. Willy, you're certainly right that many people who've been here for a while are settling into a position that's only occasionally a hard yes or a hard no...

...but Neil is right that each new release brings a new set of issues, and a new set of people coming to the forum who are encountering X for the first time, or in a new context.

Neil is also right that we're talking about many more topics than FCPX...almost all of them more interesting. LOL

Since we're not necessarily debating FCPX or not anymore, and there's a panoply of debates, maybe we should rename it FCPX And The Debates, like Martha And The Vandellas.

In the meantime, come for the FCPX, stay for The Eebates!

Tim Wilson
Vice President, Editor-in-Chief
Creative COW



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Craig SeemanRe: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate??? why?
by on Nov 6, 2012 at 4:12:25 pm

[Tim Wilson] "maybe we should rename it FCPX And The Debates"

Wins for me.

With some, I wonder how much of a debate it really is.
It's kinda like trying to convince my cat to become a vegan. It's not going to happen and it's not right for him. On the other hand it may be healthy for me.

You might think it's the meshugganah program from the demons at Apple. To me it's the bee's knees of NLEs.

Is it professional? If my clients pay me it is.

What's the best feature of FCPX? I get paid for using it!



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James CulbertsonRe: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate??? why?
by on Nov 6, 2012 at 4:17:58 pm

How about "The Cutting Debates."


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Bret WilliamsRe: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate??? why?
by on Nov 6, 2012 at 4:33:46 pm

I think the bigger question might be why is the Final Cut Pro forum still called final cut pro. It is legitimately dedicated only to versions of Final Cut Pro that are EOL'd and unsupported software. We never called that forum FCP 7, or FCP 6, or FCP 5... so I think it's time to at least rename the FCP X Techniques forum to Final Cut Pro X and the current Final Cut Pro forum to Final Cut Pro v1-7. At some point the debate forum should probably just merged into the FCP X forum as the traffic dies down.


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willy pimentelRe: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate??? why?
by on Nov 6, 2012 at 12:45:37 am

Neil, I don't dispute the usefulness of the forum, ( please read my post again) I am debating about the name on the forum.. It is misleading and it paints a negative picture...
The creative cow should let the users debate if the program is to be debatable or not but there is no need to be called that way on the tittle. Did premiere had the tittle on the forum as premiere: sucks or not? Or avid: a rookie's nightmare? No !!! So why this happens to be the case.. And there is also another forum that is for techniques .. This is confusing ... The name of the forum should be Fcp x.

Willy Pimentel
Motion Graphics Editor
Macbook Pro 2011 thunderbolt/ TBolt Displey/ 2 SSD Hds /lacie Tbolt


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Bret WilliamsRe: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate??? why?
by on Nov 6, 2012 at 4:39:32 pm

The forum was originally started as a special forum to discuss the sneak peeks that were seen early in 2011 before the software was launched and was just called FCP X. It was a place to talk about the possibilities or to bitch and moan. When the software came out, it was so controversial that people still wanted to debate, but they were mixed in with people actually trying to weed through and learn how to use the software, so the techniques forum was created and the X forum was renamed to obviously be the place to debate, which is what it was originally anyway.

So what do you do? It IS a debate forum for FCP X and always has been. I suggest calling the techniqes forum FCP X and the FCP forum FCP 1-7. People often post questions about FCP X on the FCP forum because, well, it's not specific in any way that it should only be for the EOL'd versions of the software.


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James CulbertsonRe: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate??? why?
by on Nov 6, 2012 at 2:27:59 am

Yes, it does seem like there should also be an "Adobe Premiere or Not: The Debate" and " AVID Media Composer or Not: The Debate."

Perhaps it is time to change the name to: "Which editing software should I choose, or not" or something of that sort.


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Devin CraneRe: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate??? why?
by on Nov 6, 2012 at 2:44:35 am

Yeah this forum has seemed to move on from the "debate" not near the heated discussions from former FCP legacy users as there use to be.



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Bob ZelinRe: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate??? why?
by on Nov 6, 2012 at 5:01:38 am

remember, at one time in recent history, Premiere sucked so bad, that there was no need for a forum that said "Premiere or Not ?" - because everyone knew. But now, Premiere CS6 is incredible, and it's taking over.

But we NEVER EVER expected for FCP X to be like it is (or was) coming from FCP 7, which was so good.
It has been said many times that FCP 1 sucked, but it got good at FCP 3, and we all fell in love by FCP 6 and 7. Maybe this will happen with FCP X. But we were all "sucker punched" and angry, and that is why the forum has this name.

So this is still a very good title, and perhaps at FCP X V10.3, FCP X will be exactly what we want, and everyone will forget about the bad old days, just like we all forgot about FCP 1, or early Adobe Premiere.


Bob Zelin



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Chris HarlanRe: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate??? why?
by on Nov 6, 2012 at 9:32:38 pm

[James Culbertson] "Yes, it does seem like there should also be an "Adobe Premiere or Not: The Debate" and " AVID Media Composer or Not: The Debate.""

It would only seem that way if either Avid or Adobe released a completely new NLE using the same name as their old NLE, but was in fact forcing their users to learn a completely new program or choose another. The name of the Forum is a reflection of the decision that Apple forced on its users, and not a referendum on the software, itself.


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James CulbertsonRe: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate??? why?
by on Nov 6, 2012 at 9:42:58 pm

It doesn't seem that way to me, though it clearly seems that way to you.

Anyway, I guess it is true we could take the forum title to be implicitly "This editing software or that: the debate." Which is what it is gradually approaching.


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David LawrenceRe: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate??? why?
by on Nov 6, 2012 at 4:57:36 am

[willy pimentel] "Why is this category named “Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate” ??
FCP X Has had some time out and for most i feel it is not a debate anymore. It is a new Program that requires some getting used to and y this time we should have made up our minds if we want to upgrade or not. I feel it is a negative connotation and a disrespectul nameto apple and to the many users who have learned and adjusted to this program. THis section should be called FCPX."


A lot of us would beg to differ. Please see these two recent threads:

The interface is still annoying

FCP X as a database

Want to learn more about FCPX technique? Check out the Apple FCPX Techniques forum.

The FCPX debate is still active, passionate and robust. The name of this forum is fine.

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl


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Mark DobsonRe: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate??? why?
by on Nov 6, 2012 at 6:03:21 am

[David Lawrence] "The FCPX debate is still active, passionate and robust. The name of this forum is fine."

Can't say it better than that.

I've been with FCPX since the launch but am always interested in how others are getting on.


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Michael GissingRe: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate??? why?
by on Nov 6, 2012 at 7:00:20 am

Why do those who rarely participate in this forum regularly ask to change the name. It pops up every few months and no-one has yet to give a decent reason why we should change the forum name.

It is relevant to the history of this particular debate. While its relevance may be slowly waning as many Legacy users have moved away from FCP entirely and many have embraced FCPX, until FCPX settles into the workplace, many of us still want to keep this debate open. Smoke, AVID aand Adobe are also evolving fast so keep this debate open and leave the name.


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Gary HuffRe: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate??? why?
by on Nov 6, 2012 at 2:00:46 pm

[Michael Gissing] "Why do those who rarely participate in this forum regularly ask to change the name. It pops up every few months and no-one has yet to give a decent reason why we should change the forum name."

I've noticed this too. I wonder if it's people who accidentally click on this forum while trying to get into "Techniques" and get upset over people who dare question FCPX/Apple.


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Chris HarlanRe: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate??? why?
by on Nov 6, 2012 at 6:34:55 pm

[Michael Gissing] "Why do those who rarely participate in this forum regularly ask to change the name. It pops up every few months and no-one has yet to give a decent reason why we should change the forum name. "

I think its because they don't understand the history, and see the name as a referendum on existence of the software, itself. We know that our forum title is a reference to a decision that FCP editors around the world were suddenly forced to make--and, for that matter, are still making--when our software was discontinued in every way but in name. If Apple had simply discontinued FCP, and had given birth to X with any other name, this forum probably would not exist. Its the implication that X is somehow an upgrade or furtherance of FCP Legend that gives added weight to the forum title. Even if you chose/choose to use the NLE that now owns the name "FCP," you were/are, in fact, using a completely new program. So, do you choose to use this new program, or go with another program. It ain't an upgrade; its a fork in the road. People who don't understand that, don't understand the name.


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Bill DavisRe: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate??? why?
by on Nov 6, 2012 at 9:08:13 pm

The Cow can fix the whole issue with a two word deletion.

Just take out "or Not."

FCP-X: The Debate is perfectly accurate, sorts in the same position in the listings so everyone knows where it is - and it reflects a more neutral tone.

It's all just semantics.

Consider switching the noun to see the difference:

"Love or Not - the debate" is a different question to me than "Love, the debate" because the first form questions the validity of the whole idea of Love having a place in the discussion - while the latter presumes Love's existence and focuses on a wider discussion of what it's all about.

But that's just my 2 cents.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Michael GissingRe: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate??? why?
by on Nov 6, 2012 at 9:20:26 pm

[Bill Davis]: "FCP-X: The Debate is perfectly accurate, sorts in the same position in the listings so everyone knows where it is - and it reflects a more neutral tone."

Except taking out the "or Not" takes out the reference to the other NLEs that are part of the debate. Threads here sometimes have nothing to do with FCPX so it would be once again trying to steer this thread into another FCPX Techniques forum. Again not what this forum has historically been about.

Rather than neutral it seems like a highjack - but nice try Bill.


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Tim WilsonRe: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate??? why?
by on Nov 6, 2012 at 9:31:26 pm

[Michael Gissing] "Rather than neutral it seems like a highjack - but nice try Bill."

LOL

But agreed, Michael. Some of the most valuable discussions here have been very much about the "or not," involving Premiere and Media Composer of course, but also Sony Vegas on home-built PCs, Pro Tools, hackintoshes, non-product-specific workflows, and much more. Frankly, if the forum was even MOSTLY about FCPX, it'd be kind of dull at this point...but that's nowhere true.

(Of course, if you want to talk about getting dull, I have to admit that this topic is at the tippy top of my list right now.)

And even though most of the threads are mostly positive at this point, the "whether or not" debate is not only not settled, but changes with every new update for FCPX, Media Composer, Premiere, iMac, you name it.

If anything, the word in the title that should go is FCPX...except that none of the other discussions would be happening at all without it.

Moving on now...please?

tw

Tim Wilson
Vice President, Editor-in-Chief
Creative COW



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Jim GibertiRe: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate??? why?
by on Nov 6, 2012 at 8:13:41 am

To quote Sir Paulie, "Let it be".


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Chris JacekRe: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate??? why?
by on Nov 6, 2012 at 2:43:25 pm

[Jim Giberti] "To quote Sir Paulie, "Let it be"."

Of course, he also said "I'm comin' down fast, but don't let me break you."

Sorry, I tried to find something more ridiculous, but my mental roledex of Beatles songs has taught me that most of the silly lyrics were sung by John and Ringo.

Professor, Producer, Editor
and former Apple Employee


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Tim WilsonRe: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate??? why?
by on Nov 6, 2012 at 4:15:23 pm

[Chris Jacek] "my mental roledex of Beatles songs has taught me that most of the silly lyrics were sung by John and Ringo."

I'll remind you of Ob-la-di Ob-la-da and the entirety of Blue Jay Way - plenty of silliness from Paul and George too. :-)


[willy pimentel] "And there is also another forum that is for techniques .. This is confusing ... The name of the forum should be Fcp x."


This forum is shaped differently than any others in the COW because FCPX evolved differently. It started with the debate!

The COW's original FCP forum was the most trafficked on the web -- and still is! -- but FCPX posts were coming in like wildfire during Apple's presentation at NAB 2011. We formed THIS forum while Apple was still on stage, to keep the signal high in the FCP forum.

In fact, there was only one thread when we flipped the switch on the FCPX or Not: The Debate! It was a long thread mind you, and getting longer fast -- and it was obvious that there were going to be a lot more threads in short order. They needed a place where they could be their own signal.

If admittedly sometimes a very noisy signal. LOL But I hadn't actually thought about that process in a long time. This forum wasn't invented. It evolved out of the original FCP forum in real time, starting with one very spirited thread.

Once FCPX was available to actually USE, ironically, the "work" of FCPX became its own kind of noise in THIS forum, so we did the same thing as before: lit up a forum for a community that was already underway, but needed its own home for "signal."

So, renaming this forum is possible, if for now unlikely. The consensus remains that it's working.

Merging the two FCPX forums: impossible. They formed organically from the conversations among our members as their own communities, to respond to very different needs, each of which is incompatible with the other, and each incredibly valuable.

Tim Wilson
Vice President, Editor-in-Chief
Creative COW

Tim Wilson
Vice President, Editor-in-Chief
Creative COW



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willy pimentelRe: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate??? why?
by on Nov 6, 2012 at 4:24:01 pm

I feel that everyone just seems to take on my suggestion as a debate. This is the last response as but again, it is not a debate if fcpx is there or not.. That can be very well discussed but my words are about the tittle of the default tittle for the forum's category name which refers to the one for fcpx .. Once again, for the debate, you have threads which you can debate the different topics as well.
And again, when you go to the forums topics, I don't see premiere: the debate: it now sucks less on the topics categories of the creative cow organization.

Look into http://mobi.creativecow.net/forums/

I don't see any other program titled that way and it shows a very bias negative comnotation about how the cow views the program. That is sucks, most likely up until 10.06. . But let that be taken place in the treads not make your point of view by showing it on the forums category tittles!!!

Willy Pimentel
Motion Graphics Editor
Macbook Pro 2011 thunderbolt/ TBolt Displey/ 2 SSD Hds /lacie Tbolt


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Joseph W. BourkeRe: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate??? why?
by on Nov 6, 2012 at 5:21:03 pm

Willy -

The whole topic of the title was based on the content - some said it sucked, some loved it...I get what you're saying, but in the history of all of the other NLEs, there has never been such a radical, or negatively reacted to, response to a new release. I've used AVID, Edit*, and Premiere Pro, and while they all have their strengths and weaknesses, there was never a release in their history in which the users stood up en masse and cried "WTF...?". It was if the new Toyota Camry came out with the steering wheel in the back seat, and the wheels on the roof (I know the metaphor has been beaten to death).

The title of the forum, as I see it, was spawned from that initial outcry. Maybe, as you say, it's time to move on, but there's so much activity on this forum that I think they'd be nuts to change the name. There's also marketing at play here...

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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James CudeRe: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate??? why?
by on Nov 6, 2012 at 5:43:06 pm

Perhaps "The Future of Editing" would be a better fit for what this forum has evolved into since X's initial release?


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Neil GoodmanRe: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate??? why?
by on Nov 6, 2012 at 5:51:24 pm

if the title of this forum is causeing you grief, and you feel bad for apple. I think you need less time on the the net and more in the edit bay.

Neil Goodman: Editor of New Media Production - NBC/Universal


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Joseph W. BourkeRe: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate??? why?
by on Nov 6, 2012 at 6:05:11 pm

Hey! Since this is the Creative Cow-munity, why not just change "The Future of Editing" to "The Pasture of Editing", then everyone will be so confused, they won't have time for the "It's great...it sucks!" ongoing battle...

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Chris HarlanRe: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate??? why?
by on Nov 7, 2012 at 6:10:19 pm

[Joseph W. Bourke] "Hey! Since this is the Creative Cow-munity, why not just change "The Future of Editing" to "The Pasture of Editing", then everyone will be so confused, they won't have time for the "It's great...it sucks!" ongoing battle..."

I've grown fond of the name as it is, but following your lead how about "Greener Pastures." Contrary to the old saying, it seems that when it comes to NLEs, the grass is always greener on MY platform. Whatever MY platform happens to be.


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Steve ConnorRe: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate??? why?
by on Nov 8, 2012 at 7:28:45 am

How about a change to "FCPX - PIOP's or not?" It does seem to be the persistent topic of conversation here!

Steve Connor
'It's just my opinion, with an occasional fact thrown in for good measure"


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Chris HarlanRe: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate??? why?
by on Nov 8, 2012 at 10:32:38 pm

[Steve Connor] "How about a change to "FCPX - PIOP's or not?" It does seem to be the persistent topic of conversation here!
"


LOL. Yes, but how else are you going to learn the ins and outs of the program?


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Steve ConnorRe: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate??? why?
by on Nov 8, 2012 at 10:42:57 pm

[Chris Harlan] "Yes, but how else are you going to learn the ins and outs of the program?
"

ROTFL!

Steve Connor
'It's just my opinion, with an occasional fact thrown in for good measure"


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James CulbertsonRe: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate??? why?
by on Nov 6, 2012 at 6:22:32 pm

"if the title of this forum is causing you grief, and you feel bad for apple. I think you need less time on the the net and more in the edit bay."

Admittedly I've been too busy to follow a lot of these threads fully. But your point would appear to apply to most of the ongoing commentary on this particular forum.

Though I have found some of the threads comparing editing software illuminating... which is perhaps why I feel a more generic name would be more appropriate.


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Chris HarlanRe: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate??? why?
by on Nov 6, 2012 at 6:10:45 pm

[willy pimentel] "I don't see any other program titled that way and it shows a very bias negative comnotation about how the cow views the program."

Willy, the title of the forum simply reflects its history. FCP X is so radically different than the FCP versions that came before it, that the only thing the two programs have in common are the letters "FCP." Moving from 7 to X is not an upgrade, but is, instead, choosing a different program with the same name. This new program does not do everything that its namesake did, and so many editors were confronted with a decision: where to go?

Around the world, many people are still trying to make this decision. FCP 3-7 was a highly successful platform, and is still heavily used more than a year after X's introduction. The name of the forum specifically refers to that hotly debated choice, and shouldn't be taken as a derogatory statement about the software itself.


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Paul JayRe: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate??? why?
by on Nov 6, 2012 at 8:15:00 pm

It should be Final Cut Pro X . It's here to stay. I'm done with debating.
And i like Premiere too! Which can be found in the PREMIERE PRO forum.


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Tim WilsonRe: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate??? why?
by on Nov 6, 2012 at 8:26:13 pm

[Paul Jay] "It should be Final Cut Pro X . It's here to stay"

Guys, you get that there's an FCPX forum that's focused on using FCPX rather than talking about it, right? You can find it in THIS LINK, or in the orange nav bar above, right where it's been for over a year. It's the second-busiest at the COW, and one of the busiest single forums on any technical topic, anywhere on the web.

And just in case you missed the link in my previous paragraph, or in the orange nav bar at the top of the page, HERE IT IS AGAIN.


[Paul Jay] "And i like Premiere too! Which can be found in the PREMIERE PRO forum."

Those are the equivalent of the FCPX forum FOUND HERE.

In general, forums go away when nobody posts in them anymore...so being in a forum and posting that it needs to go away isn't exactly helping. It's more effective when you contribute to the LACK of posts here....which in fact are not lacking at all, which is why this forum ain't going anywhere.

And hey, if you're looking for a forum that talks about using FCPX, the best and biggest on the web is RIGHT HERE.

Tim Wilson
Vice President, Editor-in-Chief
Creative COW



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Paul JayRe: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate??? why?
by on Nov 7, 2012 at 8:03:39 am

Actually i prefer to be in the 'Premiere Pro techiques' forum after ive been in the 'Media Composer OR NOT 'forum.
In my spare time i will visit the ' how soon until de bmc camera is here OR NOT ' forum, before i visit the 'should i actually be here or NOT' forum ...


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Walter SoykaRe: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate??? why?
by on Nov 6, 2012 at 9:57:36 pm

I think the thing I like best about this forum is that we can't even agree on what to disagree about.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Franz BieberkopfRe: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate??? why?
by on Nov 6, 2012 at 9:58:19 pm

Walter,

That's not true.

Franz.


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Walter SoykaRe: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate??? why?
by on Nov 6, 2012 at 10:00:59 pm

For Franz:

http://instantrimshot.com/index.php?sound=rimshot&play=true

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Jim GibertiRe: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate??? why?
by on Nov 6, 2012 at 10:08:04 pm

I'm simply waiting for Aindreas to make the closing argument.


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Joseph OwensRe: Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate??? why?
by on Nov 8, 2012 at 4:55:55 pm

I did a search.

"Master Debaters" did not come up.

Maybe: "FCPX - the single-handed view"... or "FCP-X... OTOH..."

jPo

"I always pass on free advice -- its never of any use to me" Oscar Wilde.


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