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How come Apple get a pass on the "Evil Empire" tag.

COW Forums : Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate

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Clint WardlowHow come Apple get a pass on the "Evil Empire" tag.
by on Jun 15, 2012 at 7:41:24 pm

On odd thing I have noticed about perceptions of Apple is that some "progessives" relate to it differently than other corporations that make obscene profits.

What brought this to fore was that I was yacking at a friend who is pro-Apple but anti-corporation. When I bitched about some practices, her response was "well, Apple is the most successful corporation of all time." Now this would be a reasonable response from a pro business sort, but not really from someone who constantly whines about the profits of big oil or Walmart. She would never say :"Gulf Oil must be doing something right, look at how much money they made."

For a lot of folk I know, making untold billions is sure proof that a company is satanic with a board meetings regularly convened in the 9th circle of Hell. Yet, they give Apple a pass on it.

I wonder what it is about Apple that makes it immune to a huge chunk of the "I hate and don't trust large corporation" crowd?


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Shawn MillerRe: How come Apple get a pass on the "Evil Empire" tag.
by on Jun 15, 2012 at 7:49:27 pm

I think this has already been discussed:

http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/335/36800

Shawn



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Clint WardlowRe: How come Apple get a pass on the "Evil Empire" tag.
by on Jun 15, 2012 at 7:52:00 pm

[Shawn Miller] "I think this has already been discussed:

http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/335/36800

Shawn"


Somehow I missed that the first time around.


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Michael HadleyRe: How come Apple get a pass on the "Evil Empire" tag.
by on Jun 15, 2012 at 8:08:04 pm

I don't know, Man. There's plenty of hating against Apple going on in this forum!

That said, anyone who "hates" corporations in general is silly. That's like hating highways or airplanes. Each is unique and should be liked or not on its own merits.

I think the one thing that most people appreciate is that Apple has generally created some really wonderful products that people enjoy using. They look cool and work pretty damn well. And they are often groundbreaking.

That probably goes a long way towards excusing/ignoring some of the negative impacts that are part and parcel of being a large multinational corporation.


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Clint WardlowRe: How come Apple get a pass on the "Evil Empire" tag.
by on Jun 15, 2012 at 8:26:12 pm

[Michael Hadley] "That said, anyone who "hates" corporations in general is silly. That's like hating highways or airplanes. Each is unique and should be liked or not on its own merits."

You've got to face it, there are plenty of people who hate large corporations and their view is that if billions are made then something shady is going on (though this generally doesn't keep them from shopping at Target if they can save a few bucks).

Frankly corps in America aren't doing much to abrogate that image with government bailouts and crazy income inequality between CEOs and the rest of us.

I have to admit my own inclinations (backed by history) is not to trust the rich. Corporations are necessary, but I feel if they had their way we would be working 7-day; 120-hour work weeks for peanuts and spending more than we made each week at the company store.

But my own pinko sentiments aside, I just find it odd that so many that hate big business give Apple a pass.


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TImothy AuldRe: How come Apple get a pass on the "Evil Empire" tag.
by on Jun 15, 2012 at 10:29:27 pm

People protect what they have. The more they have the more fierce the protection.

Tim


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Andrew RichardsRe: How come Apple get a pass on the "Evil Empire" tag.
by on Jun 15, 2012 at 8:07:43 pm

[Clint Wardlow] "I wonder what it is about Apple that makes it immune to a huge chunk of the "I hate and don't trust large corporation" crowd?"

I bet a lot of those folks also shop at Whole Foods, despite the opinions of its CEO...

Best,
Andy


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Michael HadleyRe: How come Apple get a pass on the "Evil Empire" tag.
by on Jun 15, 2012 at 8:10:18 pm

I Hate Whole Foods!~
LOL

Actually, I do. Way too expensive when you are shopping for a family of six. Organic/Shmorganic. I need a volume discount...


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Andrew RichardsRe: How come Apple get a pass on the "Evil Empire" tag.
by on Jun 15, 2012 at 8:12:25 pm

[Michael Hadley] "Way too expensive when you are shopping for a family of six."

I used to work at a place that was situated above a Whole Foods. We used to call it "Whole Paycheck".

Best,
Andy


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+1


Michael HadleyRe: How come Apple get a pass on the "Evil Empire" tag.
by on Jun 15, 2012 at 8:23:23 pm

LOL!


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Richard CardonnaRe: How come Apple get a pass on the "Evil Empire" tag.
by on Jun 15, 2012 at 8:15:12 pm

Some say that you can take Apples famous "1984" commercial and substitute big brother's image for Steve Jobs face and you will have a accurate picture of thee company it has morphed into.

Richard

Disclaimer I do not hate Apple nor its products just its corporate philosophy


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Andrew RichardsRe: How come Apple get a pass on the "Evil Empire" tag.
by on Jun 15, 2012 at 8:20:39 pm

[Richard Cardonna] "Some say"

All we know is, he's called The Stig.

Best,
Andy


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Paul JayRe: How come Apple get a pass on the "Evil Empire" tag.
by on Jun 15, 2012 at 8:22:01 pm

Its so funny that Apple is the first one to be critized while Google openly is in bed with CIA/NSA.
Using Apple products is still a choice but Google is in your face everywhere.

All companies that become too big end up evil.
Its inevitable in a democratic capitalist system where everything is for sale.


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Clint WardlowRe: How come Apple get a pass on the "Evil Empire" tag.
by on Jun 15, 2012 at 8:28:24 pm

[Paul Jay] "Its so funny that Apple is the first one to be critized while Google openly is in bed with CIA/NSA.
Using Apple products is still a choice but Google is in your face everywhere."


I don't know anybody that openly defends Google the way they do Apple.


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+1

Michael HadleyRe: How come Apple get a pass on the "Evil Empire" tag.
by on Jun 15, 2012 at 9:34:13 pm

Well, look. Google's main line of biz is selling ads. On the list of cool things that make life better, that ain't one of them.

The free stuff--search, maps,--are great. But we all pay for it by receiving those ads. I'm cool with that but it doesn't get me excited.

A new tower with lots of options--now that would get me excited.


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Jeremy GarchowRe: How come Apple get a pass on the "Evil Empire" tag.
by on Jun 16, 2012 at 3:38:24 pm

Certainly, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

These are all multinational, multibillion dollar companies who answer to no one but the all-mighty shareholder, and the I.P. lawyers.

Unless you are not buying or using any electronics, all of this is lip service.

My guess is that the cheaper you get, the worse those little manufacturing plants are in the remote and smoky China manufacturing towns. Switching to Windows and the machines that run them for political purpose is not a good trade off, or a noble trade off, in my opinion. Since Apple is a giant target at this point in history due to their massive amount of global success, their story has been most recently brought to the forefront, and they actually have the cash and influence to do something about it if they want to. Their stance thus far has been they won't "do shit, unless...", and it seems that Foxxconn reacted with wage increases and Apple says they'll try and do more.

This is not a problem unique to Apple, this is the way of the global economy.

I understand that Apple's image is fading in certain parts of this community. The shine may be wearing off, but it's not rainbows and unicorns out there, we need to be honest about this.


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Tim WilsonRe: How come Apple get a pass on the "Evil Empire" tag.
by on Jun 16, 2012 at 5:03:27 pm

Most of this stuff only matters to old people like us. Facebook and Google messing with your privacy? I've never heard anybody as old as their 30s complain about this. The head of one of those companies said, paraphrasing, "there's no such thing as privacy when people are giving us their information almost more quickly than we can collect it."

Guess which one? I actually don't remember. It really was one of 'em, but coulda been either.

iPhone 4 antenna? The issue is still there in the phones people are buying today.

I'm not trying to wave aside the idea that there aren't evil companies, but even in our business, among the Mac partisans who first called Microsoft the Evil Empire, haven't they descended to little more than hapless boobs?

The companies I think of as evil are (in my eyes) cutting wide swaths of greed, corruption and death, and Foxconn notwithstanding, I don't see Apple fitting the bill. Neither do Google, Facebook, or even LinkedIn, whose business model is built on charging you money to see the information that you've given them.

To the point that someone made in another thread about politics, Steve said in an interview I've linked to before, "I don't owe anybody anything because people like my stuff." It's no coincidence that the two rounds of dividends happened when Steve wasn't around -but was his way evil? I don't think so.

(I do find it interesting that Bill's wife said, okay, you're the richest man in the history of the world, now be the guy who has given away the most money in the history of the world, and he's arguably there, and nowhere near through.I don't think he thinks he OWES anybody anything. He also didn't do it while he was working at msft. I think he and Steve rightly felt that their primary responsibility as corporate dudes was to create wealth for investors, the end. The question that Bill's wife posed is, yeah, you've fulfilled your OBLIGATION, but wouldn't it be cool to take advantage of this OPPORTUNITY?)

The more interesting question to me is, is ANYBODY considered evil anymore by anybody but geezers and pundits? And politicians - but something something punchline here.

As much as I've spent over half my life in nearly constant outrage over something, things are close enough to okay for me to give dough to my favorite causes and let the rest go.

Does that make me evil?

But I certainly think that for the pups, big equaling evil is long gone, if it was ever there. I'd love for them to pick up where I left of on the outrage thing....but only if they agree with me. LOL Otherwise they can stfu and keep their white earplugs plugged in. LOL

But there's no way that Apple can do anything that's actually feasible and even get mentioned in the fine print on the list of evil companies, is there? Asked with a rising intonation to suggest that the question isn't entirely rhetorical....

Tim Wilson
Associate Publisher, Editor-in-Chief
Creative COW Magazine
Twitter: timdoubleyou



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Gary HuffRe: How come Apple get a pass on the "Evil Empire" tag.
by on Jun 15, 2012 at 11:08:58 pm

[Paul Jay] "All companies that become too big end up evil.
Its inevitable in a democratic capitalist system where everything is for sale."


And what happens with these companies in non-democratic capitalist systems?


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Richard CardonnaRe: How come Apple get a pass on the "Evil Empire" tag.
by on Jun 16, 2012 at 6:43:45 pm

Nothing haappens, These companies feel at ease because the non democratic government does the dirty work for them. Hence capitalism and communisim like each other. Strange bedfellows but very productive these days.

Richard


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Gary HuffRe: How come Apple get a pass on the "Evil Empire" tag.
by on Jun 16, 2012 at 7:01:43 pm

[Richard Cardonna] "These companies feel at ease because the non democratic government does the dirty work for them"

Funny how certain people don't seem to get this. Or act like there are no rich people in other economic systems.


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Davee SchulteRe: How come Apple get a pass on the "Evil Empire" tag.
by on Jun 16, 2012 at 5:28:17 am

Apple was the upstart that struggled against the mighty Microsoft for many years. In general, it made a more stable OS run on UNIX while Microsoft was plagued with virus and registry issues. Apple has had some bombs but under Steve Jobs, its made pretty good products. I don't think anyone minds a corporation making billions as long as they don't make crap. Personally, I see apple declining under Tim Cook. He just doesn't have the vision and I predict their products will start to look more and more "normal" (aka boring) as time goes on. But until one of us runs a billion dollar company, I guess we can't judge...


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Bobby MoscaRe: How come Apple get a pass on the "Evil Empire" tag.
by on Jun 16, 2012 at 10:46:45 pm

I think right now they get a pass because they are given a pass. It's all momentum, or maybe a feedback loop. Apple is the perpetual motion machine of positive imaging. It won't last, but only because it never has.

And all companies don't become evil. Some don't survive long enough to get that far. The rest either go out of business altogether or lose their perch and lumber on in obscurity.Apple will not stay where they are.

As far as CEOs go, remember that the vast majority of them make far less than many of the actors or athletes you can name. I think the thing that gets stuck in people's craw is that they are either very smart and educated or know very smart and educated people that don't make nearly what they think they are worth. What they don't realize is that this is how it should be. No one will pay you one red cent for what you know, no matter how valuable. You can only be paid for what you do. Very, very few people can do what CEOs do, especially the a big dogs like Tim Cook.


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Clint WardlowRe: How come Apple get a pass on the "Evil Empire" tag.
by on Jun 18, 2012 at 3:40:15 pm

[Bobby Mosca] " Very, very few people can do what CEOs do, especially the a big dogs like Tim Cook."

So why is it that CEOs in this country make such a disproportionate amount compared to the work force than with other countries? Are American CEOs just better?

And also a CEO can go in, totally ruin a company and still get out with a multi-million dollar golden parachute. I don't think it is people are pissed because a CEO makes good money, its just that the gap between the rich and the rest of us has grown a whole lot in the last 20 years.


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Tim WilsonRe: How come Apple get a pass on the "Evil Empire" tag.
by on Jun 18, 2012 at 4:57:49 pm

[Clint Wardlow] " I don't think it is people are pissed because a CEO makes good money, its just that the gap between the rich and the rest of us has grown a whole lot in the last 20 years."

To put it in corporate terms rather than political ones, but still agreeing with your point, I don't like the increasing gap between CEOs and other workers when the CEO is f^cking up, especially in ways that harm workers (ie, empty their pension funds).

I also resent the whole "I'm just taking a salary of $1." That just tells me that a) you have an assload of other sources of income, and b) you're dodging taxes.

Other than that, if you're doing the basics right, get paid as much as you can. If you're guiding the process of adding massive value to your company, tens of millions or more in various compensations doesn't bother me a bit. Are the stockholders and employees properly provided for? Then go for it.

(Looking at it that way, I think that most elite athletes and entertainers are UNDERPAID relative to the revenue they generate - by elite meaning consistently creating value.)

That said, yeah, underperforming CEOs getting fortunes for their f^ckitude is the kind of thing that potentially undermines the whole economy.


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Chris JacekRe: How come Apple get a pass on the "Evil Empire" tag.
by on Jun 18, 2012 at 7:38:58 pm

[Bobby Mosca] "Very, very few people can do what CEOs do"

This is because most successful CEOs are sociopaths. Most of us could not do what they do, because we have consciences. In order to be one of the big dogs today, getting 8 or 9 figure bonuses each year, you must willingly do things that will hurt or even kills thousands, if not millions, or people.

I know it sounds like hyperbole, but there have actually been numerous studies supporting this position. Being able to act without any regard for how your actions affect others is a common personality trait among the CEOs of the most successful corporations. This character trait is clinically known as sociopathy or psychopathy.

I'm not saying that Jobs or Cook fall/fell into that category (Jobs could certainly have been labeled Narcissistic), but I think it is pretty clearly the case with others, like the Koch brothers, or the CEOs of the major oil and health care corporations.

Professor, Producer, Editor
and former Apple Employee


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