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Dream on Premiere advocates

COW Forums : Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate

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Harry KafkaDream on Premiere advocates
by on May 16, 2012 at 3:17:55 pm

I wanted Premiere to work. Using 5.5 on a Mac.
Cut a 38 min. doc and it was fine
until had to make MPEG 2 which took forever. Now trying to make
OMF's and it crashes repeatedly. Trying the Render and Replace method
which also looks like it will take over 2 hours if it doesn't crash.
Can you really call yourself a serious NLE if you can't create
simple OMFs. I think not.


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James MortnerRe: Dream on Premiere advocates
by on May 16, 2012 at 3:34:48 pm

That's it everyone, Harry ran into a technical problem.

Get your coats and go home.


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Harry KafkaRe: Dream on Premiere advocates
by on May 16, 2012 at 3:50:22 pm

If you research this topic you'll see I'm not alone in this.
Not being able to export OMFs is kind of important.
But funny line anyway.


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Oliver PetersRe: Dream on Premiere advocates
by on May 16, 2012 at 3:58:47 pm

I'm in the same boat as I need OMF for the preferred local audio mixer/Pro Tools guy. However, the world has long moved on to AAF. OMFs like EDLs are sadly a vestige of older times, though they still continue to be in heavy use. Adobe - like XtoPro - is geared to AAF and that may be part of the technical issues you are running into. The fact of the matter is that if you work in a world where collaboration with various other editors, mixers, etc. is essential, no one does this better than Avid.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Michael HancockRe: Dream on Premiere advocates
by on May 16, 2012 at 4:09:10 pm

What errors are you guys getting when you export OMFs from Premiere? And this is in 5.5, right?

I export OMF from Premiere all the time to our sound guy and we've never had a problem. Wonder what the difference is between my system and yours.

To compare:
I'm running a 2008 Mac Pro, Lion 10.7.3, CS5.5 fully updated.
My OMF export settings:
OMF set to 48000, 16 bits per sample, Files:Encapsulate, Render: Copy Complete Audio Files. Imports into ProTools 10 just fine and I think it imported into the previous version too (audio guy is offsite but I know he just updated to 10, not sure what he was running prior).

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


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Andrew RichardsRe: Dream on Premiere advocates
by on May 16, 2012 at 4:19:26 pm

[Oliver Peters] "I'm in the same boat as I need OMF for the preferred local audio mixer/Pro Tools guy."

Is this audio guy just running a few-versions-old Pro Tools that can't import AAF?

Best,
Andy


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Oliver PetersRe: Dream on Premiere advocates
by on May 16, 2012 at 4:29:10 pm

[Andrew Richards] "Is this audio guy just running a few-versions-old Pro Tools that can't import AAF?"

He's running an OS9 version (!!!) that still works like a champ. He only uses it for ProTools and has a huge investment in plug-ins, so he doesn't want to upgrade. It only does OMF, not AAF. There are other guys in town with much newer systems, but he's the preferred agency mixer. Fast and does good mixes.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Andrew RichardsRe: Dream on Premiere advocates
by on May 16, 2012 at 4:40:04 pm

[Oliver Peters] "He's running an OS9 version (!!!) that still works like a champ. He only uses it for ProTools and has a huge investment in plug-ins, so he doesn't want to upgrade."

I had a feeling it was that kind of thing... Does he have a stockpile of old Macs that he uses for parts?

Best,
Andy


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Oliver PetersRe: Dream on Premiere advocates
by on May 16, 2012 at 5:03:43 pm

[Andrew Richards] "Does he have a stockpile of old Macs that he uses for parts?"

LOL. No idea. I think it's the G4 model that was around at the OS9/OSX transition.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Gary HuffRe: Dream on Premiere advocates
by on May 16, 2012 at 5:33:50 pm

[Oliver Peters] "He's running an OS9 version (!!!) that still works like a champ. He only uses it for ProTools and has a huge investment in plug-ins, so he doesn't want to upgrade. It only does OMF, not AAF."

I have a sound guy mastering audio in Cool Edit Pro on an XP machine. It can only read AVIs. It was really problematic getting out a proper 24p file out of Final Cut Pro into a compatible AVI for a guy on outdated software.

Can you really call yourself a serious NLE if you can't create simple AVIs? I think not.


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Bret WilliamsRe: Dream on Premiere advocates
by on May 16, 2012 at 5:58:06 pm

Can you call yourself a serious audio guy running asystem that only reads AVIs? Who needs an AVI? since 1993 I've needed an AVI once, and I think that was 1993.


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Gary HuffRe: Dream on Premiere advocates
by on May 17, 2012 at 5:51:37 pm

[Bret Williams] "Can you call yourself a serious audio guy running asystem that only reads AVIs? Who needs an AVI? since 1993 I've needed an AVI once, and I think that was 1993."

Don't you mean "professional"? Hmmmmmmmmmmm?!?! ;-)


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Lance BachelderRe: Dream on Premiere advocates
by on May 16, 2012 at 5:38:23 pm

So would he retire if you tell him you will only send .aaf's? I'll bet he'd update pretty quickly if he was going to lose some work - I certainly would never let an outside house dictate my workflow no matter how good they are.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Irvine, California



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Chris ConleeRe: Dream on Premiere advocates
by on May 17, 2012 at 4:45:28 am

[Lance Bachelder] "I certainly would never let an outside house dictate my workflow no matter how good they are.
"


Lance, I think some give and take is in order here: you're asking HIM to change his workflow for an outside vendor -- which is YOU. There are usually ways to convert these things. Perhaps it could be opened in a newer PT system and resaved as an older project? I'm not a PT expert so I don't know.

Chris


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Lance BachelderRe: Dream on Premiere advocates
by on May 17, 2012 at 4:36:51 pm

Not saying what anyone should do - just saying I personally would not work with a sound guy who is requiring me to bend to his laziness and refusal to update his systems.

But that's me, I'm always the first one to update anything the instant it's available - hardware, software whatever - and yes I get burned sometimes but being an early adopter is in my DNA sadly...

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Irvine, California



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James MortnerRe: Dream on Premiere advocates
by on May 16, 2012 at 4:26:50 pm

[Harry Kafka] "If you research this topic you'll see I'm not alone in this.
Not being able to export OMFs is kind of important.
But funny line anyway."


Yeahn sorry for the sarcasm :)

It is important I will totally agree. Hope Adobe can/has fixed in CS6 ? Maybe a bug fix report is in order


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Shane RossRe: Dream on Premiere advocates
by on May 16, 2012 at 4:10:58 pm

[Harry Kafka] "Can you really call yourself a serious NLE if you can't create
simple OMFs. I think not."


FCX can't. Requires a third party app to do that. OMF's are something Apple doesn't seem to think you need anymore.

And CS5.5 is old. CS6 is the new version, and it exports AAF, that ProTools loves.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Oliver PetersRe: Dream on Premiere advocates
by on May 16, 2012 at 4:31:53 pm

On a similar note, I tried importing an EDL into PProCS6 for a test. No go. All timeline clips seem to line up at the head of the clip, not the proper in time. Same EDL imports correctly in Color. Haven't tested it with SG yet.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Greg AndonianRe: Dream on Premiere advocates
by on May 16, 2012 at 4:47:23 pm

Shane Ross "FCX can't. Requires a third party app to do that. OMF's are something Apple doesn't seem to think you need anymore."

And FCPX can't open older FCP projects without a 3rd party app either.

It's easier to bring an FCP7 project into Premiere than it is to bring it into the newest version of FCP!

______________________________________________
"THAT'S our fail-safe point. Up until here, we still have enough track to stop the locomotive before it plunges into the ravine... But after this windmill it's the future or bust."


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jon smithertonRe: Dream on Premiere advocates
by on May 17, 2012 at 7:28:50 am

[Shane Ross] "FCX can't. Requires a third party app to do that. OMF's are something Apple doesn't seem to think you need anymore."

Be fair Shane, to include OMF would probably mean 200 bucks on FCPX's price for Avid's licencing. Remember when the OMF option on the Media 100 was 2000 bucks?
Hey at least FCPX has got audio waveforms that are usable unlike Avid!
Granted Avid MC5.5/6 has now got the option to redraw one track without a custom workspace setup...but hey they own Digidesign!

Jon



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Chris HarlanRe: Dream on Premiere advocates
by on May 17, 2012 at 5:52:26 pm

[jon smitherton] "Hey at least FCPX has got audio waveforms that are usable unlike Avid!
"


Boy, I sure don't get that. I find Avid's waveforms extremely usable and FCPX's abysmal. Probably just a matter of taste, though.


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Gary HuffRe: Dream on Premiere advocates
by on May 16, 2012 at 5:31:34 pm

[Harry Kafka] "Cut a 38 min. doc and it was fine until had to make MPEG 2 which took forever."

I've never had a problem making MPEG-2 for DVDs, either through Media Encoder or Encore (under 5.5). What finite span of time do you mean exactly by "forever"?

[Harry Kafka] "Now trying to make OMF's and it crashes repeatedly."

I've done this once so far, and didn't have a problem.


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Andy FieldRe: Dream on Premiere advocates
by on May 16, 2012 at 6:20:56 pm

Quick Premiere engineers - to the DeLorean! Fly back and time and fix this OMF oversight in your out of date software.



A nano second Google search reveals the CS6 Premiere does OMF export....a simple upgrade to a vastly better editing program (yes it really is the Final Cut 8 you were waiting for...with a number of things still to be addressed - primarily the horrendously long export times)

(From the Adobe Web site)

http://www.adobe.com/ap/products/premiere/extend.displayTab2.html

OMF export

"Export your audio in Open Media Framework (OMF) format for interchange with audio workstations. Then import the final audio back into Adobe Premiere Pro and use direct audio channel routing to preserve the final mix."

Andy Field
FieldVision Productions
N. Bethesda, Maryland 20852


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Greg JonesRe: Dream on Premiere advocates
by on May 16, 2012 at 7:40:01 pm

I'm running CS6 and when I exported an AAF file out, my audio guy could not open it in ProTools. I tried exporting an OMF and the computer kept crashing. Just my 2 cents. I've given the same audio guy AAFs from Media Composer and he can open them fine.

Greg Jones
D7,Inc.
Orlando,FL.
http://www.d7-inc.com

Greg Jones
Orlando,Fl.
http://www.d7-inc.com


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Jeremy GarchowRe: Dream on Premiere advocates
by on May 16, 2012 at 8:06:43 pm

Has anyone here really tried an AAF from CS6 yet?

Just curious if you got it to work as expected with embedded audio from movs.


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Jeremy GarchowRe: Dream on Premiere advocates
by on May 16, 2012 at 8:08:29 pm

Oh, and Protip:

Make sure you project manage your sequence first to it's own project pre-AAF export attempt.


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Greg JonesRe: Dream on Premiere advocates
by on May 16, 2012 at 8:53:02 pm

I tried. For starters it doesn't seem you can just select a sequence and just export audio as an AAF. When I try to export an AAF I get a lot of errors saying the audio is associated with video. And it seems like it wants to export the entire project out as an AAF. Maybe Adobe can make it so that you just select your sequence and hit export AAF and it actually exports just the sequence.

Greg Jones
D7,Inc.

Greg Jones
Orlando,Fl.
http://www.d7-inc.com


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Jeremy GarchowRe: Dream on Premiere advocates
by on May 16, 2012 at 8:58:37 pm

[Greg Jones] "I tried. For starters it doesn't seem you can just select a sequence and just export audio as an AAF. When I try to export an AAF I get a lot of errors saying the audio is associated with video. And it seems like it wants to export the entire project out as an AAF. Maybe Adobe can make it so that you just select your sequence and hit export AAF and it actually exports just the sequence."

Hence the Protip.


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Michael GissingRe: Dream on Premiere advocates
by on May 16, 2012 at 9:43:51 pm

I still prefer OMFs. As a legacy format it has been rock solid for many years. I can buy a $500 license to import AAFs in my totally up to date Fairlight but I just don't need to. For sound post there is nothing that an AAF does and an OMF doesn't that makes AAFs better for me. It might seem nice to get mix and EQ information from the edit to sound post but in my experience that information is of no use and something else to delete before working.

FCPX not supporting OMF is a deal breaker for me. I certainly expect CS6 to be able to OMF. The job I am working on at the moment came from AVID MC6 and it couldn't make an OMF using the old trick of creating a sequence with audio only and changing to SD.

I did find that Automatic Duck did a great job of importing both the sound and picture AAFs into FCP 7 from MC6 so I was able to get the show into Color and OMF'ed to Fairlight.


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Alan OkeyRe: Dream on Premiere advocates
by on May 16, 2012 at 11:07:53 pm

Can Smoke 2013 export OMF and/or AAF?


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Jeremy GarchowRe: Dream on Premiere advocates
by on May 16, 2012 at 11:42:19 pm

[Alan Okey] "Can Smoke 2013 export OMF and/or AAF?
"


I don't know for sure, but I've heard OMF export.

XML and AAF export didnt seem to currently be in there from what I heard from the NAB contingent.

It accepts XML and AAF. I also think it has EDL in and out.


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Jeremy GarchowRe: Dream on Premiere advocates
by on May 16, 2012 at 11:47:10 pm

By the way, AAF works out of CS6 without "embed audio" but all media needs to be with the AAF file.


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Greg AndonianRe: Dream on Premiere advocates
by on May 17, 2012 at 3:27:32 am

I don't remember which thread it was in, but I remember one of the Adobe guys mentioning there was an update for PPro coming soon that addressed issues with AAF export. We now know it will also introduce "smart rendering", so it should be a good update.

While getting projects over to other programs has been a weak link for Premiere, I do think it will get better soon. Adobe DID hire the Master of Interoperability, after all...

______________________________________________
"THAT'S our fail-safe point. Up until here, we still have enough track to stop the locomotive before it plunges into the ravine... But after this windmill it's the future or bust."


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