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At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not

COW Forums : Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate

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Simon UbsdellAt least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Mar 24, 2012 at 11:06:28 am

Not sure whether this guy is right or not but his story makes for a very well written and amusing read all the same:

http://jefferyharrell.tumblr.com/post/19735082637/newtons-third-law

It appears that Premiere is under certain circumstances unable to keep track of the timecode stamp. Pretty serious if true.

If Jeffery is to be believed, one of the Adobe team confirmed to him that this was indeed happening - and that's where the story really gets funny, and dispiriting at the same time. But I won't spoil the very good punchline ...

Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Steve ConnorRe: At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Mar 24, 2012 at 11:42:14 am

Interesting read, thanks for posting

Steve Connor
"FCPX Professional"
Adrenalin Television


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Brian MulliganRe: At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Mar 24, 2012 at 12:10:28 pm

And Paul Harvey's... The rest of the story.....

adobe.ly/GSzXmE

Brian Mulligan
Senior Editor - Autodesk Smoke
WTHR-TV Indianapolis,IN, USA
Twitter: @bkmeditor


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David CherniackRe: At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Mar 24, 2012 at 12:11:29 pm

Adobe's response:

http://blogs.adobe.com/premiereprotraining/2012/03/a-couple-of-timecode-iss...

David
AllinOneFilms.com


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Michael PhillipsRe: At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Mar 24, 2012 at 12:22:25 pm

A description of the actual bug and circumstances in which it arises would be good to know in case there is a workaround that can be used in the meantime. God knows there are similar issues in every software package.

Michael

Michael Phillips


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David CherniackRe: At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Mar 24, 2012 at 12:36:04 pm

[Michael Phillips] "A description of the actual bug and circumstances in which it arises would be good to know in case there is a workaround that can be used in the meantime. God knows there are similar issues in every software package."

I think David McGavran explains it succinctly. "QTChange uses a value for calculating frame rate and timecode of 23.98 (2398/100) instead of the expected 23.976 (23976/1000 or 24000/1001)".

Other software packages that read QTChange files correctly must be aware of the 23.98 time base and reinterpret it to 23.976.

As for workarounds I haven't tried it but there is a way to batch change the timebase of clips in PrPro.

David
AllinOneFilms.com


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Simon UbsdellRe: At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Mar 24, 2012 at 12:26:45 pm

[David Cherniack] "Adobe's response:

http://blogs.adobe.com/premiereprotraining/2012/03/a-couple-of-timecode-iss....."


Hmmmmm, yeah. I'd say if you read the full details of what he wrote Jeffery managed to shame them into this concession though, wouldn't you!??

Still at least they've responded ... sort of ... wouldn't get that from Apple in a million years!

Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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David CherniackRe: At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Mar 24, 2012 at 12:43:47 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "Hmmmmm, yeah. I'd say if you read the full details of what he wrote Jeffery managed to shame them into this concession though, wouldn't you!??"

Shamed? Far from it. Adobe takes its shortcomings seriously. David McGavran has gone to extraordinary lengths to help out individual users having issues with their software. This is just another instance. If anything, reading Jeffery's blogs on the issue, I'd say he'd be the last person on Earth I'd want to help out. Various four letter descriptors come to my mind. David, on the other hand, is a complete gentleman.

David
AllinOneFilms.com


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Frank GothmannRe: At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Mar 24, 2012 at 1:06:15 pm

Here is an official response from Adobe, one day after a single blog-post regarding a single bug.
When others report total project and media corruption in X, Apple's response is zero.
Speaks volumes.


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+3


Simon UbsdellRe: At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Mar 24, 2012 at 1:23:57 pm

[David Cherniack] "If anything, reading Jeffery's blogs on the issue, I'd say he'd be the last person on Earth I'd want to help out."

Hey, I only posted this because I thought his rant was amusingly written - and I guess four letter words don't offend me as much as perhaps they ought to. Sorry if you didn't like it.

And yes, if we're being very serious about this, Adobe's response was ultimately very good indeed and they're probably one of the few companies on earth who would respond as well as this.

Apologies if anybody has taken offence to this. But don't anybody tell me you haven't ranted inappropriately from time to time ;-)

Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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David CherniackRe: At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Mar 24, 2012 at 1:31:48 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "But don't anybody tell me you haven't ranted inappropriately from time to time ;-)"

I only rant appropriately :).

It wasn't his 4-letter words I was taking exception to (as anyone who knows me would tell you), it was his overall behaviour - for which there are good 4 letter descriptors.

David
AllinOneFilms.com


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Simon UbsdellRe: At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Mar 24, 2012 at 1:53:13 pm

[David Cherniack] "I only rant appropriately :)."

Me too! For some odd reason not everybody else sees it that way. Funny, huh?

Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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David CherniackRe: At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Mar 24, 2012 at 2:14:13 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] " For some odd reason not everybody else sees it that way. Funny, huh?"

Hilarious.

David
AllinOneFilms.com


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Michael PhillipsRe: At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Mar 24, 2012 at 1:12:17 pm

So the issue is when using third party software to create metadata and essence outside of PPro with a different interpretation that deviates from standard calculations? Seems to me that Adobe did a great good job of reaching out, identifying the source of the problem (outside of PPro) and will be addressed in a future release. He also reached out to the author of the program to work a solution at the source.

And what good is there is trying to "shame" someone? We all work under deadlines, priorities, compressed schedules, with variables we can or cannot control. You can read the release notes of known issues with any software release and go on some blog rant about "how could they release this with that issue?" all the time. More helpful would be to find out why the original timestamps needed to be re-adjusted in third party software (which then caused the timecode rate issue) in the first place and see if there is a better solution to be had. That would be a complete description of the problem at hand, and potentially a better solution.


Michael

Michael Phillips


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Frank GothmannRe: At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Mar 24, 2012 at 1:31:47 pm

Lots of apps have tc issues with Quicktime files. I don't know if the issues are related but most stem from the way Qt calculates TC, running time divided by frame count. If its a variable frame rate codec or there is an audio overlap without picture even by just a single frame you end up with an invalid tc.


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Oliver PetersRe: At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Mar 24, 2012 at 2:03:05 pm

Adobe is one of the few companies that actually makes a distinction between the correct 23.976 and the rounded 23.98. Some companies see 23.98 and assume 23.976, but Adobe doesn't. That's always been the case in After Effects.

And while we are pointing out software issues, remember that FCP X does not read embedded reel numbers in QT. So no reel numbers from Alexa or QtChange-generated files, for example.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Dennis RadekeRe: At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Mar 24, 2012 at 3:23:12 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "Still at least they've responded ... sort of ... wouldn't get that from Apple in a million years!"

Hi guys,

Sorry I didn't jump in earlier, but busy with a million things and I like to chime in here for fun and as a chance to 'get away' from work...sort of...

Anyway, I think the real point is what Simon said here - that Adobe is talking with customers and acknowledging where there can be a problem. You will not get that typically from most other vendors and certainly that hasn't been the case with Cupertino in quite a while.

I know this is the positive side of the argument, but I'd rather have a company say, 'hey yeah, this is an issue and we can't get to this in the time you want' rather than have silence and no communication be my de facto standard.

Another way to think about it is that with any conversation or communication, there is always give and take. We (Adobe) can't do every feature and everything that every user wants immediately. We have though demonstrated a willingness to listen and to try and help.

Dennis - Adobe guy


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+1

Bob WoodheadRe: At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Mar 24, 2012 at 3:28:49 pm

My fingers are SO crossed hoping for an Adobe CS6 PPro home run....

"Constituo, ergo sum"

Bob Woodhead / Atlanta
CMX-Quantel-Avid-FCP-Premiere-3D-AFX-Crayola
"What a long strange trip it's been...."


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Jim GibertiRe: At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Mar 24, 2012 at 6:49:37 pm

[Bob Woodhead] "My fingers are SO crossed hoping for an Adobe CS6 PPro home run....
"


Man, there are a lot of crossed fingers out there.

Adobe finds itself in a rare moment in an industry like this - and it was a virtual gift from the visionaries at Apple.

I really hope they get all Latin and carpe diem.


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Simon UbsdellRe: At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Mar 24, 2012 at 5:13:59 pm

[Dennis Radeke] "I'd rather have a company say, 'hey yeah, this is an issue and we can't get to this in the time you want' rather than have silence and no communication be my de facto standard."

Hi Dennis

Absolutely, and I have to say (as many have done before me) that as the human face of Adobe around these parts you set a shining example that is pretty much unparalleled :)

Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Jim GibertiRe: At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Mar 24, 2012 at 6:41:03 pm

[Dennis Radeke] "Anyway, I think the real point is what Simon said here - that Adobe is talking with customers and acknowledging where there can be a problem. You will not get that typically from most other vendors and certainly that hasn't been the case with Cupertino in quite a while."

OK, this is the point where I have to tell you what I didn't want to get into re my Apple conversation.

It went something like this:

Apple - We need a $99.99 to open a case file...you should leave feedback.

Me - "look I'm not saying I'm important and certainly not more important than anyone else, but I have been one of the professional and vocal advocates of FCPX online...no I'm not going to pay you $100 dollars to share my bad experiences with your program...I'm not some kid asking how to plug in my iPad...really, I'm not going to pay you to help you beta your software...does Apple really want experienced users turning their backs on software they previously supported and writing about it ?...

In fairness, the guy was nice to talk to and simply following Apple protocol, and during a very long conversation did share a good deal, in a sort of "okay I know you're not going to pay us anything out of principle, and I do understand your plight and position", way.

I did point out the huge gap between the way Adobe dealt with the professional community and how Apple, well didn't. In this era, not communicating simply leaves that messaging up to others on the interwebs - that's stupid and counter-intuitive and counter-productive.

Unless you're Apple who, while redefining editing, have also redefined professional communication.

They've even assigned it a value - 0

All I can say is thank you to Adobe for actually treating us like we try and treat each other - with professional respect.


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Robert BrownRe: At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Mar 28, 2012 at 5:11:19 am

I think Apple is making it quite easy for other guys to have decent customer service. Act like you have a pulse and you're miles ahead. But seriously, I think a big chunk of the NLE market is there for the taking. I'm doing a lot of Avid work at the moment and I'm appreciating what they do but am also very interested in PPro since I'm such an AE fan. As for FCP X I couldn't care less. Maybe it has it's pluses but I see no reason to go through the effort.

But I think Walter Murch was on to something about an open source NLE so editors could steer the ship. I don't think that's quite a reality right now but if companies do allow the users to heavily influence the product and build what they want I think it's win win. I think a partnership sort of speak between user an vendor is an excellent approach. Dictators can take a hike.

Robert Brown
Editor/VFX/Colorist - FCP, Smoke, Quantel Pablo, After Effects, 3DS MAX, Premiere Pro

http://vimeo.com/user3987510/videos


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Jeremy GarchowRe: At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Mar 28, 2012 at 12:53:10 pm

[Robert Brown] "an open source NLE so editors could steer the ship."

Either that, or the inmates running the asylum. ;)


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Aindreas GallagherRe: At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Mar 24, 2012 at 9:15:17 pm

Is anything bar avid ever going to work at this rate?

Reality - melting. I invoke Picard.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/001/582/picard-facepalm.jp...


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Richard CardonnaRe: At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Mar 24, 2012 at 10:15:13 pm

What I can't understand is why would this fellow say that PPro is unuseable, because of this issue? What about the thousands of projects done? are they unviewable?

BTW Aindreas

Startrek your my man. Check this scotish version:






RC


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Shane RossRe: At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Mar 24, 2012 at 11:31:45 pm

Unusable in the situation he needed it...which is a very common workflow. DSLR from a Canon camera with dual system sound, and timecode added with QTChange. That is a VERY common workflow.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Richard CardonnaRe: At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Mar 25, 2012 at 12:58:58 am

Got it would this be ttue with any dslr?


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Richard CardonnaRe: At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Mar 25, 2012 at 12:58:55 am

Got it would this be ttue with any dslr?


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Jeremy GarchowRe: At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Mar 25, 2012 at 1:11:44 am

Older DSLRs, yes. Newer DSLRs write actual tc.


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Oliver PetersRe: At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Mar 25, 2012 at 1:18:18 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "Older DSLRs, yes. Newer DSLRs write actual tc."

Well, only the newest Mark III. Not what most of us get to cut with. And, who's to say that TC will be right or at least any different than that written by QtChange or Grinder? Not to mention, you still don't really want to cut with native H264 footage - at least I don't.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Michael PhillipsRe: At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Mar 25, 2012 at 1:04:56 pm

And many programs might actually prefer using 00:00:00:00 as a start for clips that don't have timecode as some programs (as seen here with this example) interpret timecode in different ways. Some programs will use creation date and timestamp and write it out to HH:MM:SS:00 always ending in :00 while others also interpret a frame count. Depending on program and frame rate, you could be off by 29 frames. Not to mention proper calculations of 23.976*(100/1000) and 24*(1000/1001).

Another NLE when interpreting timecode does not take into account UTC, so if shooting before or daylight savings time and conforming afterwards will cause a 1 hour mismatch. Depending on schedules, applications used and such, a mix and match of any of these methods will cause headaches.

That is why 00:00:00:00 can actually be a nice method with no interpretation needed other than frame rate as to how that counts for sources that do not have the timecode embedded by the camera itself.

But I will add that having time of day interpreted by creation date and timestamp is handy for editors to have an additional piece of metadata to help them find a piece of media - like when a producer or director goes; "I think we shot something last Tuesday afternoon right after lunch". That timecode (if interpreted) could be tracked in a separate timecode column for doing those types of searches with a shoot date.


Michael

Michael Phillips


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Jeremy GarchowRe: At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Mar 26, 2012 at 12:37:43 am

[Oliver Peters] "Well, only the newest Mark III. Not what most of us get to cut with. And, who's to say that TC will be right or at least any different than that written by QtChange or Grinder? Not to mention, you still don't really want to cut with native H264 footage - at least I don't.
"


Just pointing it out.

The 1DX has tc as well. Seems to be somewhat of a trend!


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Franz BieberkopfRe: At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Mar 25, 2012 at 3:51:47 pm

Richard,


It should be stated that the issue is with the way PPro reads data written by another piece of software - QTChange. If you don't use that software, this isn't going to affect you at all, regardless of what DSLR you use.


Franz.


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Simon UbsdellRe: At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Mar 25, 2012 at 5:44:58 pm

[Franz Bieberkopf] "It should be stated that the issue is with the way PPro reads data written by another piece of software - QTChange. If you don't use that software, this isn't going to affect you at all, regardless of what DSLR you use."

Yes, but strictly speaking there are two parts to the story only one of which is about QTChange.

This is what Adobe have to say about part 2:

Premiere Pro also has an issue with round-tripping start timecode with AAF files. This is our bug. We have fixed this bug in an internal build, and we are now testing it and determining how we will be able to address this issue in a future release of Premiere Pro.

I don't imagine that many people need to round-trip with AAF but for those who do it's worth being aware of this issue.

Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Franz BieberkopfRe: At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Mar 25, 2012 at 6:10:47 pm

Simon,

Yes, thanks for adding that. I just found this thread quite vague on what the actual issue is and whom it might affect; the talk of DSLR models exacerbated that.

Franz.


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David McGavranRe: At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Mar 25, 2012 at 6:11:35 pm

Hi Guys,

Haven't posted to the cow before but read it quite often... Dennis and Todd seem to have this place covered :)

Just wanted to drop in and say hi.

Cheers

Dave


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Simon UbsdellRe: At least Abobe listens!!!!
by on Mar 25, 2012 at 8:44:11 pm

[David McGavran] " Hi Guys,

Haven't posted to the cow before but read it quite often... Dennis and Todd seem to have this place covered :)

Just wanted to drop in and say hi.

Cheers

Dave"


Thought I'd just drop one last line correcting the title of this thread.

Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Walter SoykaRe: At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Mar 26, 2012 at 1:51:02 pm

[David McGavran] "Hi Guys,Haven't posted to the cow before but read it quite often... Dennis and Todd seem to have this place covered :)

Just wanted to drop in and say hi.

Cheers
Dave"


Just in case someone hasn't read the linked Adobe response, I think it's worth pointing out here that Dave McGavran is the Premiere Pro engineering manager.

Timecode is the sort of thing that needs to just work in an NLE, so seeing this incompatibility go from bug report to problem identification to a publicly announced solution for a future release in three days is really refreshing.

I made a remark here a few weeks ago about being interested in the vendors that were interested in me. This is the sort of thing I was talking about.

This didn't months of hue and cry. It took a user's bug report. Adobe recognized that timecode was important and treated it as such. Adobe recognized that communicating with users was important and treated it as such.

Dave, my thanks to you and the Premiere Pro team.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Jim GibertiRe: At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Mar 25, 2012 at 6:51:43 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "I don't imagine that many people need to round-trip with AAF but for those who do it's worth being aware of this issue."

Yeah, this hardly a make or break PP issue.


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Chris HarlanRe: At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Mar 25, 2012 at 10:54:51 pm

[Jim Giberti] "[Simon Ubsdell] "I don't imagine that many people need to round-trip with AAF but for those who do it's worth being aware of this issue."

Yeah, this hardly a make or break PP issue.
"


Its hard for me to get worked up about this. I started with NLE's back when they were highly specialized, and there weren't enough users to do any kind of wide Beta testing. So, I just expect--rightly or wrongly--that there will be some bugs. And my mentality is generally to work around them. The important thing for me has always been the acknowledgment of issues and open communication about work-arounds and timetables for fixes.


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Mike MolendaRe: At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Mar 26, 2012 at 12:53:51 am

I ran into some similar issues recently while screwing around with 5DtoRGB - which, like QTchange, writes TC from the camera metadata to transcodes. Proper TC for the first frame of the clip should have been 22:04:43:00. Premiere read it as 22:03:23:14, a difference of one minute(!), nineteen seconds, ten frames.

So I decided to test this out. Using the Canon E1 plugin for FCP7 Log & Transfer, which also generates TC based on the camera metadata, I created a ProRes Quicktime and imported that from my Capture Scratch into Premiere. Start TC read as 22:04:43:00. No problems. I also generated ProRes QTs from the same footage using AME and MPEG Streamclip, and brought in the straight h.264 from the card as a control. Picked an arbitrary frame, 00:00:09:09 (22:04:52:09 in the E1 transcode), and everything matched up across the clips.

So it seems like the problem is a disconnect with how Premiere treats 23.976 TC generated by different sources, such as QTchange or 5DtoRGB? But this is something that Avid and FCP7 seem to be able to account for...

It's distressing, to say the least, given how widespread the use of DSLRs (particularly the Canons) shooting 24p has become. The wacky side-effects that come from merging second system audio certainly don't help anything, either.


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Rafael AmadorRe: At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Mar 26, 2012 at 4:18:20 am

[Shane Ross] "Unusable in the situation he needed it...which is a very common workflow. DSLR from a Canon camera with dual system sound, and timecode added with QTChange. That is a VERY common workflow"
That workflow is OK for FC that do not manage Canon stuff natively. No so needed with PP.

In his long post the guy don't even mention the kind of stuff he is dealing with.

In any COW forum the first thing we would have told him is: PLEASE SPECIFY YOUR SOURCE MATERIAL, SEQUENCE SETTING AND WORKFLOW.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Walter SoykaRe: At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Mar 26, 2012 at 4:02:47 pm

[Rafael Amador] "That workflow is OK for FC that do not manage Canon stuff natively. No so needed with PP."

Giving non-timecoded sources proper TC and reel info is not necessary if you're going to stay entirely within any individual app -- but it's critical for conform. I don't see a problem with the workflow in general.


[Rafael Amador] "For years, the "QTChanger" developer (Vouke Valh) has proved to be one of the guys with better knowledge on TC issues around the COW forums. Just to say that I doubt very much that he has made the newbie mistake of apply 23,98fps instead of 23,976fps to generate TC."

I don't want to speculate because I don't know all the specifics, but if the Adobe folks say that QtChange's timecode output could be improved and that they have a patch in place for a future release that works around the issue, I believe them. (I also like the approach of taking ownership and "fixing" it in Premiere anyway, even if another developer's code is creating the problem.)

Also, this bug isn't happening with all 23.976 media with timecode -- just the timecode output from a few apps. I just tried this to see for myself. Export a 23.976 clip starting at 1:00:00 from FCP. Import it into Premiere Pro, and the timecode is correct. Restripe the TC on that clip with QtChange, and Premiere Pro gets 59:56:09.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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David McGavranRe: At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Mar 26, 2012 at 4:18:52 am

I will grab a copy of 5DtoRGB and see what it is up to

Cheers

Dave


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Rafael AmadorQT Changer
by on Mar 26, 2012 at 2:45:48 pm

For years, the "QTChanger" developer (Vouke Valh) has proved to be one of the guys with better knowledge on TC issues around the COW forums. Just to say that I doubt very much that he has made the newbie mistake of apply 23,98fps instead of 23,976fps to generate TC.

[David McGavran] "I will grab a copy of 5DtoRGB and see what it is up to"
5DtoRGB has a bug.
The Prores files exported with app have something wrong.
When you import them to CinemaTools they can't be conformed and you get a warning that these files have "temporal compression". For whatever reason, QT do not see them as "intraframe".

rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Mike MolendaRe: At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Mar 26, 2012 at 3:43:00 pm

[David McGavran] "I will grab a copy of 5DtoRGB and see what it is up to

Cheers

Dave"


Awesome, thanks.

If it makes any difference, this is not only happening with Canon EOS Quicktimes. For kicks, I created a 23.976 h.264 Quicktime from some XDCAM footage in AME. Then I re-transcoded in 5DtoRGB, generating a starting TC 01:00:00:00. Came into PP with first frame reading 00:59:56:09.

Tried transcoding that first h.264 file to ProRes 422 with both AME and Compressor, no TC issues.


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David McGavranRe: At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Mar 26, 2012 at 4:56:14 pm

Hi Mike,

I downloaded the trial of 5DtoRGB from the app store. Version 1.5.8. We seem to read the timecode correctly as far as I can tell. The timecode track is written with 24000/1001 which is a valid 23.976 timecode and we pull it in correctly. What version are you using?

Of note, it seems one of the reasons people use 5DtoRGB is because it knows how to read the full range yuv out of the 5D footage. Just to be clear you get the same results using Premiere/AE or Adobe Media Encoder. We read full range 601 YUV out of the 5D movies so if you needed to transcode you could also use AME and get the same results.

Cheers

Dave


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Mike MolendaRe: At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Mar 26, 2012 at 5:32:01 pm

I was using the free version (not the full version trial) downloaded from Rarevision's website (1.5.3b). Good to know they seem to have addressed the issue.

I was actually using 5DtoRGB to run some tests on my footage, comparing it to the source h.264 Quicktime and ProRes Quicktime generated by AME and the FCP E1 plugin. For what it's worth, I didn't think the negligible uptick in quality from 5DtoRGB justified the significantly longer transcode time. At least not for the work I do.

Still, it would be nice to have a reliable way in the Suite to generate TC (or at least add reel names) to footage like that shot by the Canon DSLRs. I'm sure you're not at liberty to say anything, but maybe this is what Prelude is for?


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Thomas WorthRe: At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Mar 30, 2012 at 9:06:50 am

Yeah, 1.5.3b had bugs. It's been superseded by 1.5.8 Lite, which is now available for free in the Mac App Store. I've taken the link to 1.5.3b off the Rarevision site, so only 1.5.8 will be available.

The speed issue is going to be addressed in the next major release, as well as other popular gripes. Trust me, I sympathize and have been working hard to address this. After all, I'm a 5DtoRGB user myself!

I'll also mention that 5DtoRGB has been optimized for use with Adobe products. I've tweaked 5DtoRGB's color rendering to match Adobe's as closely as possible for those who need to intercut transcoded and native footage. The two are so close that you can literally switch between either (even mid-shot) and the change is imperceptible. This way, editors can edit native H.264 in Premiere along with footage transcoded with 5DtoRGB, all without having to worry about things matching.


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Todd KoprivaRe: At least FCPX knows how to count - Premiere apparently does not
by on Apr 11, 2012 at 2:51:15 am

Here's an update about the QtChange issue:
http://blogs.adobe.com/premiereprotraining/2012/04/timecode-issue-followup....

We'll keep you posted about the second issue brough up in the original post (AAF roundtripping). I expect to have something useful to say about that in not too long.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Kopriva, Adobe Systems Incorporated
product manager, professional video software
After Effects team blog
Premiere Pro team blog
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