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Bunim/Murray chooses Avid

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John KaleyBunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 4, 2012 at 3:21:46 pm

http://www.thestreet.com/story/11364598/1/reality-tv-leader-bunimmurray-pro...


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Andy FieldRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 4, 2012 at 4:50:17 pm

Not surprising - most of our network clients have now abandoned FCP for AVID (we have to deliver programs in an AVID timeline and Autoduck and Boris Transfer are unfortunately hit or miss)

These broadcast clients because need to produce programs today not some time in the future when Apple gets around to bringing the latest version of FCPX up to par with what they had less than 6 months ago.

Yes they know the argument "but FCP 7 still works" Unfortunately something along the way will break it (Lion software update to come?) - there's no development or support for new formats...and Premiere and Avid can now do real time with no transcode on so many more formats. That seems to be the only thing going for Final Cut X...

It would be great if all the terrific plug in companies would port their fine work to AVID and Premiere.

What on earth was Apple thinking?

Andy Field
FieldVision Productions
N. Bethesda, Maryland 20852


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Steve ConnorRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 4, 2012 at 4:55:27 pm

[Andy Field] "What on earth was Apple thinking?"

Who knows, but they must have known that they would lose a lot of support in the short term and very possibly the long term!

I'd expect there to be a lot of stories like this over the coming months

"FCPX Agitator"


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Bret WilliamsRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 4, 2012 at 6:06:23 pm

I loved Steve Jobs, and I can't imagine Apple to in any way be better off without him, but I think the FCP decision was just a larger version of the single button mouse, the floppy-diskless computer, the numberpad-less keyboard, the flashless iPhone, dropping serial ports, etc. Some of these decisions pushed the industry forward while others (like 2 button mice) were minor inconveniences. But I think as Steve knew he was pretty ill he was trying to push his visions faster and faster but it was breaking down in the end. Lion needs a little more refinement and focus. The iPhone 5 got put off and plan B (4S) stepped in and that worked out pretty well, even if Siri is beta. And at the same time he/Apple decided to push the envelope on their Pro apps to the next planned stage of development. My guess is that iOS, the iPhone, and Lion were getting the most attention and things like the Pro Apps were being pushed but weren't quite ready and the transition (or lack thereof) hadn't been thought through. I think it's as simple as that. It would've been nice if we got a "Lion" version of FCP 8- Not so groundbreaking, a little buggy, some useless eye-candy, but in the end more powerful and the ability to open old projects.

With Steve gone I think we might see some changes. Steve was all about simplifying. He hated the keypad. He thought a two-button mouse was confusing. He probably thought the viewer and canvas was overkill too. But for better or worse, I think the engineers will have a little more say now. Let's hope we get a bluetooth keyboard with a number pad and some MacPros.


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Daniel FromeRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 3:26:11 am

Good for Avid. I hope they eventually break even as a company and make MC 6.5 even better.


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Chris HarlanRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 4, 2012 at 4:54:09 pm

[John Kaley] "http://www.thestreet.com/story/11364598/1/reality-tv-leader-bunimmurray-pro...

"


Starting to happen. Maybe 3 years of FCP7 left was a little optimistic. Since I'm a promo guy, I'll probably take my cue from FCP places like Trailer Park. When/if they announce that they are going Avid, I'll know it is time to complete the transition out.


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Bobby MoscaRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 4, 2012 at 4:55:59 pm

I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.

I must say, I'm getting the impression that Apple is moving in the exact opposite direction right now from most users, and I don't mean just creatives. Not too long ago I spoke with someone who mentioned putting Macs in her workplace, "... because that's where everyone is going, anyway."

Huh.

More people are getting into Macs at home, because of their iDevices, and are subsequently BEGGING their employers to put in a Mac system. I would, too, if I wasn't self employed, and I don't have to beg the boss because I am the boss and I already use Macs... Anyway-It would seem like a brilliant plan. But, because of Apple's secrecy (which makes sense for gadgets, but not for businesses), there is no plan. So businesses refuse to make the move because they have no idea what's coming next, if anything.

It's turning into a slow-motion tragedy. I certainly hope it turns around and all the great ideas put forward here about Thunderbolt and all that stuff pans out. But we can't make plans for the future based on conjecture. At some point Apple has to make a move, so we can either move with or move along, as many have already done.


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Oliver PetersRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 4, 2012 at 8:22:57 pm

[Bobby Mosca] "More people are getting into Macs at home, because of their iDevices, and are subsequently BEGGING their employers to put in a Mac system. I would, too, if I wasn't self employed, and I don't have to beg the boss because I am the boss and I already use Macs..."

Do you really believe that? There's little or no evidence of that in the real world, where most individuals and companies are hanging on to their computers for 4 years or longer now. The iDevices halo may extend to buying MacBooks or an iMac for the home, but certainly not in any business (creative and media shops excluded) that I've seen.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Bobby MoscaRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 1:50:19 am

You're right, businesses aren't picking them up, but I don't know anyone who uses them at home that doesn't wish they had them at work. I've talked to people who wanted to use a MacBook for their office-to-home work, and even though it can get the work done, convincing the boss to let them is another story. (Sometimes they can, sometimes not.)

I've also talked to IT guys that would be fine making the switch to Macs, but they can't convince their bosses it would work because Apple can't or won't provide a 5 year plan for their products. Everyone else does, and that's what the boss wants to see. (Of course, those plans don't really amount to a hill of beans, but try telling a middle-man MBA without a creative bone in his body that. That's just corporate inertia.)

My point is that pressure on employers is going to continue to mount, but the companies won't know how to change to meet their workforce desires (and probably get better productivity) because Apple is going in the other direction. Again, Apple could be aware of what demand they are creating and plan to take advantage of it, but it doesn't look that way.


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Ben ScottRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 8:48:57 am

http://www.computing.co.uk/ctg/news/2095852/itv-replace-pcs-macs-business


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Mark DobsonRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 4, 2012 at 5:04:43 pm

Yeah, well I really can't see FCPX being anywhere near ready for companies like Bunim/Murray.

And unless the next upgrade is truly stupendous I can't see Apple regaining it's position within the broadcast industry. In fact I'm sure most top end production houses have already taken the same decision.

What a shame to lose the top end of the market because that kudos trickles down the chain and also keeps the designers on their toes.


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Chris HarlanRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 4, 2012 at 5:14:17 pm

[Mark Dobson] "In fact I'm sure most top end production houses have already taken the same decision."

Yeah, I'm sure the decision's already been made internally, at many places. I think the major question has been, for those on FCS, how long to coast before bitting the bullet. Announcements like this will start putting everyone into gear, here. Personally, I was hoping they would sit on their current equipment a little longer, but se la guerre.


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David Roth WeissRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 4, 2012 at 5:22:25 pm

Choosing Avid was a no-brainer and really no big surprise. There really is no other choice for companies like Bunim/Murray. As I've said since June 22nd, 2011, L.A. will soon be all Avid, all the time.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Bringing "The Whale" to the Big Screen:
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-2-MikeParfit...

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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Chris HarlanRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 4, 2012 at 5:42:11 pm

[David Roth Weiss] "Choosing Avid was a no-brainer and really no big surprise. There really is no other choice for companies like Bunim/Murray. As I've said since June 22nd, 2011, L.A. will soon be all Avid, all the time."

Totally agree. And I've been moving back that way since then. This is the kind of official announcement, though, that gets things rolling. Our train is being called, as it were. I'm guessing that by this time next year, I'll be doing a lot less FCP work. I was hoping things would stretch out a little longer. It is also probably one more reason to think that my next machine--laptop or Workstation--is a Dell or an HP.

What would be an interesting wrench for me is if Adobe can convince a few major boutiques to throw in with Premiere because of their deep involvement with After Effects. I would be happy to see some competition remain here-abouts.


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Bret WilliamsRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 4, 2012 at 6:03:07 pm

CS6 is their last shot. If they can refine Premiere Pro into something stable and a bit less clunky feeling they'll have a chance. I think they're destined to lose the battle in the end because Avid was already number two or on par with FCP installs with Premiere pretty far behind. Premiere would have to convince all the FCP houses to switch to them to make a tremendous impact. But it appears it's about split. So it'll probably be a 70% Aivd, 30% Premiere/FCP X world for awhile. Corporate is headed Premiere because it's freelancers can get up to speed and it's a relatively similar fit. Broadcast and Film will go back to Avid, where Avid still had a large share anyway. Most corporate production seems to have forgotten Avid altogether.


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Chris HarlanRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 4, 2012 at 6:27:20 pm

[Bret Williams] "Broadcast and Film will go back to Avid, where Avid still had a large share anyway. "

Certainly. The posible wedge, here in LA, is promotions and commercials, especially among the boutiques who have Creative Directors that come from a Web background instead of television. A lot of those folks have been quietly lobbying for Premiere because it seems to them an appropriate offshoot of After Effects. A lot of these folks also hate Apple for the whole Flash banishment on Mobile Computing.

My money is on Avid, however, but I would be happy with both. It would be nice for Avid to have some solid competition. Media Composer atrophied like crazy until FCP started biting it on the butt.


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David Roth WeissRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 4, 2012 at 6:48:13 pm

[Chris Harlan] "What would be an interesting wrench for me is if Adobe can convince a few major boutiques to throw in with Premiere because of their deep involvement with After Effects. I would be happy to see some competition remain here-abouts."

With all due respect to Adobe, and to Dennis at Adobe, who frequents this forum, I just don't see Premiere as a real contender in the L.A. arena any time soon. The established ecosystem here has absolutely no ties to Premiere and no past experience with it. So, adopting Premiere at this time would have to be viewed as a big gamble, and in this economy the last thing companies need now is taking lots of risk.

The good news for those of us who may have previously been on the fence is that the choice has just become a whole lot easier.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Bringing "The Whale" to the Big Screen:
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-2-MikeParfit...

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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Chris HarlanRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 4, 2012 at 6:58:18 pm

[David Roth Weiss] "With all due respect to Adobe, and to Dennis at Adobe, who frequents this forum, I just don't see Premiere as a real contender in the L.A. arena any time soon."

I agree with you that the odds are against it, but I know a lot of disgruntled Creative Directors (over the Flash thing) who come from Web backgrounds, rely on After Effects as their primary graphics engine, and have been asking "why can't we just use Premiere" for a couple of years. I think if Adobe were aggressive, they could wedge into boutique design and Special Effects production companies, because After Effects is the primary tool there, anyway, and an NLE is there to service that. I'm going with Avid, and that is a no brainer for me, but I've talked to enough folks to know their is SOME furtive interest in Premiere. Will it happen? I have no idea. If it does, it will be around the edges.


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Marvin HoldmanRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 4, 2012 at 7:13:20 pm

A couple of things have steered us to Adobe....

1. You gotta have photoshop, regardless. It's just too practical for too many things.
2. Legacy FCS projects can be ported to PPro.
3. Large pool of freelance opportunities for outsourcing.

Of course, we are NOT in LA, so the local ecosystem plays less into the quotient. In the Southeastern US markets we do service, we see a lot more installations of PPro for education (especially since FCPX) and that is one of the pools of labor that will be drawn on (at least here) for the next 3-5 years. It's what most folks in our region will gain experience on in any school they may be going too.

Still hold out some hope for FCPX, but it diminishes daily, given the current state of all things Apple. This will be a telling year for sure, and we'll most definitely be watching what develops in the next 12 months. I've got a feeling that time will tell whether Apple will ever be a player in this business again. While many have already "stuck a fork in it" we do hope that Apple will get their act together. The last couple of months have been dark days for this once dominant company... at least in the NLE world. Sad to see something so great screwed up so badly.

Marvin Holdman
Production Manager
Tourist Network
8317 Front Beach Rd, Suite 23
Panama City Beach, Fl
phone 850-234-2773 ext. 128
cell 850-585-9667
skype username - vidmarv


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Chris ConleeRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 4, 2012 at 9:06:14 pm

Yeah, I agree. I'm in feature and episodic television editorial in L.A., and it's been 90+% Avid/ProTools for years. But now my friends in promo, trailers, reality and video games are making the shift to Avid. Some of them under much duress, but they're making the shift nonetheless.

I agree, by the end of 2012 Los Angeles will be all Avid, all the time. These folks feel like Apple just burned them bad, and in this town where it's freaking hard enough to survive as it is, they're going for the company with a 20 year track record of professional features and support. Even if it costs them a bit more up front. Peace of mind speaks volumes in this new economy.

Of course that presupposes that Avid finds a way to stop the financial meltdown that it's currently experiencing...

Chris


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Bret WilliamsRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 12:19:10 am

Right in the middle of that 20+ years Avid nearly left the Mac platform completely and screwed over people with nonexistent or poor upgrade paths for their turnkey hardware systems that seemed to keep changing.

And Adobe pretty much told the Apple editing community to shove it for a few years with Premiere Pro until CS3.

I guess it was Apple's turn.


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Chris ConleeRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 12:24:06 am

Keep in mind the common denominator here is Apple. They have always had a funny way of dealing with other vendors. Avid got tired of having to come up with work-arounds to Apple's changing specs and available slot counts, etc. I get why they were mad. That's why I moved to Windows for a few years. I only moved back recently when I figured I should have FCP on my system. Now, I suppose I'll go back to Windows on my next upgrade, 'cause I just don't see the reason to stick with Mac anymore.

Chris


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Andrew RichardsRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 4, 2012 at 7:29:54 pm

Big-shop deals like this will be the difference between Avid getting out of its financial hole or not. The real money for them is in the ISIS sales, and Bunim/Murray needs a lot of storage.

Best,
Andy


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Shane RossRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 4, 2012 at 7:56:30 pm

I think the only surprising part of this announcement is how soon they did it. I didn't think they'd do it for another year. But going to Avid was inevitable. And not surprising. I don't think anyone on this forum is surprised by that. WE all know that Apple will lose a lot of broadcast houses because of FCX. Yes, and handful of people will get by with it, but a majority of broadcast TV shops will move from FCP to Avid.

But again...since we are the 2%...Apple really doesn't care. Those 100 seats that Bunim/Murray has is nothing to them. They'll make that up in 1000 sales to people in other arenas that will use FCX.

Although it was Bunim/Murray's adoption of FCP that got a huge ball rolling to establish FCP in this town (L.A.). To see them go back will make the ball start to roll in the opposite direction.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Andrew RichardsRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 4, 2012 at 8:03:43 pm

[Shane Ross] "I think the only surprising part of this announcement is how soon they did it."

Totally agree.

[Shane Ross] "Yes, and handful of people will get by with it, but a majority of broadcast TV shops will move from FCP to Avid."

This is going to be a big issue for companies who sold shared storage for FCP. The big shops with the big money are going to go Avid, and that means ActiveSAN and Xsan are not going to work. The NAS vendors are better positioned to work around Avid's everything-at-root storage schema, but it isn't at all trivial. EditShare and Facilis must be loving this.

Best,
Andy


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David Roth WeissRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 4, 2012 at 8:09:40 pm

[Shane Ross] "I think the only surprising part of this announcement is how soon they did it. I didn't think they'd do it for another year. But going to Avid was inevitable."

Actually, as you may recall, Mark was one of the "lucky" few who was invited to see the initial unveiling of X in Cupertino last February. So, the decision to jump back to Avid hasn't really been all that fast for Bunim/Murray after all.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Bringing "The Whale" to the Big Screen:
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-2-MikeParfit...

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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Oliver PetersRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 4, 2012 at 8:18:12 pm

I think the point being missed is that FCP X was in many ways Apple burning a bridge. It was a clear signal that their intention was to develop an NLE is ways other than enterprise customers needed. The logical business decision by larger users has been to move on, since Apple wasn't making a product they could use within the foreseeable future.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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David Roth WeissRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 4, 2012 at 8:33:05 pm

[Oliver Peters] "I think the point being missed is that FCP X was in many ways Apple burning a bridge."

That point certainly wasn't being missed by me... :)

If anything, it appears Apple itself somehow failed to anticipate the repercussions of their move. And, I think anyone who really believes Apple doesn't care is in denial. The very public mistakes the company has made with regard to X may not ultimately damage Apple financially in any significant way, but they have certainly damaged Apple's reputation.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Bringing "The Whale" to the Big Screen:
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-2-MikeParfit...

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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Simon UbsdellRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 4, 2012 at 8:53:58 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Apple wasn't making a product they could use within the foreseeable future."

I think that's the absolutely key point right now - there is no indication at this moment in time that FCPX will satisfy the requirements of the "professional community" (as defined by film and broadcast at the very least) within any "foreseeable" timeframe. The FCPX we are looking at right now differs barely in any meaningful sense from the one apparently demo-ed to the select few in February of last year which was apparently identical to the one showcased in at the SuperMeet and seemingly identical to the one actually released in June.

Nothing since has changed the picture in any meaningful degree (apologies to all those enthusiasts who saw Roles as some kind of major conceptual and operational breakthrough).

The ugprade promised for the early part of this year (June? or is that just too cynical?) may well be a radical rethink that changes everything we know, but then again it may simply deliver what Apple have promised which is multicam and broadcast monitoring. Personally I strongly suspect that that will be as exciting (or otherwise) as it gets - and I can't see that as being enough to make any significant impact on the drift away from Apple in terms of NLE choices for any of the major players.

Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Chris HarlanRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 4, 2012 at 9:30:01 pm

[David Roth Weiss] "[Shane Ross] "I think the only surprising part of this announcement is how soon they did it. I didn't think they'd do it for another year. But going to Avid was inevitable."

Actually, as you may recall, Mark was one of the "lucky" few who was invited to see the initial unveiling of X in Cupertino last February. So, the decision to jump back to Avid hasn't really been all that fast for Bunim/Murray after all.
"


Yeah, and I think that this puts a slug in the head of any wishful notion that great developments are underfoot for the next release but are being kept from us by a few hardcore NDAs, signed by those in the know. Man, listen to that fat lady sing.


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Jeremy GarchowRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 4, 2012 at 10:02:41 pm

Probably had to make 2012 purchasing decisions, and it's clear, for an operation like Bunim/Murray, FCPX isn't there yet and obviously won't be there soon enough for that style of workflow.

This isn't very surprising at all. Good for Avid.


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Chris HarlanRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 4, 2012 at 10:14:59 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "This isn't very surprising at all. Good for Avid."

Certainly not a surprise. But the official announcement, and that the transition won't be piecemeal--according to the announcement ALL shows are converting early this year--is a pretty big "Ready, set..." out here. The next big shoe to drop will be "Go!"


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Jeremy GarchowRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 4, 2012 at 10:18:25 pm

[Chris Harlan] "Certainly not a surprise. But the official announcement, and that the transition won't be piecemeal--according to the announcement ALL shows are converting early this year--is a pretty big "Ready, set..." out here. The next big shoe to drop will be "Go!""

From all the mixed messages that have been floating around here, I have no idea why you LaLaLand folks aren't on Avid already. Why keep wasting time with anything else if it's in 95% of the rooms in LA?


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Chris HarlanRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 4, 2012 at 10:36:01 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "From all the mixed messages that have been floating around here, I have no idea why you LaLaLand folks aren't on Avid already. Why keep wasting time with anything else if it's in 95% of the rooms in LA?"

Jeremy, it is just not that simple. I'm still on FCP 7 because I'm really fast on it, I like the interface, and there is still a huge infrastructure out there that involves ProResHQ and Macs. There are many very large boutiques and production companies that are FCP 7 only. Bunim/Murray was all FCP until this announcement. Trailer Park still is. There are many others. Nearly all of the post house out here have as many FCP seats as they do Avid seats. Even if I wanted to go all Avid tomorrow, I couldn't because of the way I'm tied in to all my clients. THAT is why there is all this talk and trying to figure out how to move. I know--at this point--that I will eventually be all Avid, but I have to work in step with my clients, and my client's clients. And some of those clients are very big ships that do not turn on a dime.

The reason that so many of us are on FCP is that it was a refreshing change from Media Composer. Given a choice, I'd stick with FCP 7 because I like it. I'd like things to stretch out a little longer, but if the herd is beginning to move...


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Shane RossRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 4, 2012 at 11:10:37 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "I have no idea why you LaLaLand folks aren't on Avid already. Why keep wasting time with anything else if it's in 95% of the rooms in LA?"

Because many places have a lot of money invested in FCP, and infrastructure surrounding it. Meaning shared media servers. Those won't work with Avid. That's what the main cost of going to Avid will be to Bunim/Murray...swapping out the XSAN storage (nearly 200TB of space) with Avid ISIS systems. They can afford it. Not everyone can.

But LA companies are also known for sticking with what works for as long as they can. I know several places still cutting on Avid 7.0 ABVB systems...on PowerMac 9600s. Because it works. Many still on Meridians too.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Jeremy GarchowRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 4, 2012 at 11:28:32 pm

So you guys work for the 5% of people that have FCP in LA?

Crazy.


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Steven GonzalesRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 4, 2012 at 11:41:47 pm

A lot of the emotion on this board is because many folks that post here were the ones that argued FCP into usage.

With that in mind, it's not surprising that these folks are at the FCP houses.

The cost / benefit of FCP was great compared to Avid, but only if the shared network investment got through its usable life.



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Chris HarlanRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 4, 2012 at 11:42:58 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "So you guys work for the 5% of people that have FCP in LA?

Crazy.
"


What on earth are you talking about, Jeremy? You are aware, aren't you, that Final Cut Pro has a much, much greater market share out here than 5%? You're just messing with that,right?


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Jeremy GarchowRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 1:07:31 am

Feom what I have been reading today, (not this particular thread) is that Avid has/was/forever will be the Hollywood NLE of choice. Just seems odd that anyone in LA was using anything else but Avid if it's true!


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Shane RossRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 1:10:58 am

Avid was losing ground fast in this town. Mainly used on high end features (well, 95% of the features made) and a lot of broadcast TV. But FCP was a HUGE contender in broadcast TV...and was used on more than a handful of features. I can say that in my neck of the editing world (documentary/reality), FCP was king. And even some major shows (American Horror Story, Scrubs, many others) were edited with FCP. It was a 60-40 thing.

But now...Avid will dominate again. I hope they don't get lazy about it...comfortable. They need to be challenged to stay competitive.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Chris HarlanRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 1:25:14 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "Feom what I have been reading today, (not this particular thread) is that Avid has/was/forever will be the Hollywood NLE of choice. Just seems odd that anyone in LA was using anything else but Avid if it's true!

"


Then you've been reading some wrong stuff. FCP made small inroads into Features, but it was/is huge in reality, in promo, in trailers, and quite a bit of television, less so in dramatic, but huge in documentary, and magazine programing. I don't know what you've been reading, but its wrong.


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Les KayeRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 2:16:29 am

[Chris Harlan] "FCP made small inroads into Features, but it was/is huge in reality, in promo, in trailer"

I believe this is a little turned around. Yes FCP is huge in promos and trailers, and was (finally) beginning to make serious inroads in features - just look at last year's Oscar contenders. But no, with the notable exception of Bunim-Murray and a handful of others, most reality remains Avid.

If anything, this decision will make things easier for Bunim-Murray.

http://www.leskaye.net


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Chris HarlanRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 3:19:08 am

[Les Kaye] "But no, with the notable exception of Bunim-Murray and a handful of others, most reality remains Avid. "

I don't know, Les. I don't have figures, and I usually work adjacent to unscripted, and only occasionally in it. I know big guns like Survivor are pretty much all Avid, as is anything else that has 17,000 lbs of footage, but I sure have seen a lot of growth in syndicated/cable unscripted for FCP over the last six years. For giggles, I just scanned back through 3 months of available editorial positions on Reality Staff. I didn't keep a tally, but the ratio seemed to be about 1/3rd to 2/5ths FCP, and the rest Avid. This one-third to two-fifths strikes me as being in the same neighborhood as what I guess FCP saturation to be in unscripted. Just my sense from talking to people and walking around. Like I say, I don't have the figures, but I think you are minimizing FCP's impact in unscripted.


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Jeremy GarchowRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 3:25:11 am

That's it.

The name of this forum should officially be changed to "The Armchair Speculators".

Glad to be a part of it.


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Chris HarlanRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 5:25:05 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "That's it.

The name of this forum should officially be changed to "The Armchair Speculators".

Glad to be a part of it.
"


Armchair? What are you on about? And why are you so gloomy?

Why is trying to assess the business you are in and what your colleagues are doing "armchair?" I guess I just don't get it. Certainly we are totally armchairing it when we are speculating about what the delivery time of a Mac Pro means about a new product line, or what Apple's 5 year plan is based on a newly published FAQ; but how is trying to guess the number of seats around town--a town that you regularly work in--armchair speculation?


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Jeremy GarchowRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 5:48:07 am

It was a joke.

It's funny to me, lots of guessing. I've done plenty of it.

I'm not gloomy.


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Shane RossRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 4, 2012 at 11:43:18 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "So you guys work for the 5% of people that have FCP in LA?"

Well...before this summer it was more like 40% FCP, 60% Avid. I think by now it is still in that ballpark...not much has changed yet. Again, companies tend to stick with what works for a while. Which is why I was a little shocked that BMP announced the switch already. But, as stated, Mark was part of the few that saw FCX very early on, so he had a while to prepare.

And that company has the resources to switch right away. Others need to gear up for that move.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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John DavidsonCrossing my fingers for CS6
by on Jan 4, 2012 at 11:47:09 pm

I just want CS6 to show some really smart improvements so that we can confidently switch from FCP7. I honestly have no hope for FCPX anymore.

Let's hope CS6 is amazing.

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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Chris ConleeRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 12:21:29 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "So you guys work for the 5% of people that have FCP in LA?"

Jeremy,

I believe you're referring to my earlier post. However, you've taken it slightly out of context. I originally stated that the feature film and network episodic market in Los Angeles was 95% Avid. My observation, and I'm sticking with it. I went on to say that my friends in promo, trailers, video games and reality television were now switching to Avid. By implication, those segments were very heavily invested in FCP or other alternatives.

I suppose we could split hairs when referring to the "feature film" world, as well, as there was a time when the low-budget arena was heavily FCP-centric. When I say it, I'm referring to studio films.

Chris


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Adam WhiteRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 4, 2012 at 11:37:54 pm

This will be our last year on FCP. By Autumn time we will almost certainly have moved all post over to another NLE. I'm now really eager to move on. FCP is finished as a professional editing tool as far as I can see. The thought of changing everything to fit within the ridiculous half baked paradigm of X is laughable - why on earth would we do that, I cannot see any gain in doing so at the moment

I should probably point out I edit for a company specialising in short form content of all sorts for the web. Its a relatively new company that was built on FCS. There is no reason for us to stay with FCP and really we are pretty easy to please! This is a company that should have been based around FCP for at least another decade, but X was just such a catastrophe in every possible way that we have no choice but to move to something else.


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John HeagyRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 12:29:23 am

The thing I like about FCP is how one can really create custom workflows. There so many tools one can apply to an xml/QT based workflow. Avid is much less flexible, tho that has changed a bit. I suspect without FCP's pressure the rate of change will slow to a stop, lets hope it doesn't reverse. Maybe PP can keep the pressure on.

Creating a workflow with Avid will be like drawing with just red and black sharpies compared to a box of 64 crayons with FCP7. I know BMP used a wide range of colors in their workflow.

Of course without robust xml support, FCPX already has a limited palette.

John Heagy


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Lance BachelderRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 1:16:04 am

Yeah I agree - i've cut on Avid for pay and used every version they're had over the last decade but would take FCP7 any day over MC including MC6. Yeah Avid has great shared storage but the NLE blows chunks - I truly hate editing on it and I'm sure there's gonna be a lot of frustration on some of the 100 seats at Bunim. Sure they'll all adjust because they have to pay rent and buy groceries but it's not a fun NLE to work on.

Truth is I think everyone on here is wrong, FCPX will win in the end if Apple pays attention to it and ads a few simple features we'd all like to have. But even as it sits, I prefer it to MC6, PPro 5.5 and Vegas 11. It's just works, its sexy, it's fun and it's fast. Color tools blow away anything on the aforementioned NLE's and some of the plug-ins coming out like Yanobox MOODS are so fun and futuristic I feel like I'm opening OS9 every time I open another NLE. Even working with audio is better and more "pro" than any NLE I used including Vegas.

Here's to an interesting 2012...

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Irvine, California



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Aindreas GallagherRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 2:28:53 am

[Lance Bachelder] " It's just works, its sexy, it's fun and it's fast. Color tools blow away anything on the aforementioned NLE's "

come on. I'd take FCP7 too - the point is Apple just trashed the house - near the entire editing house.
They spent ten years clawing to grab it, and they just spit the entire thing out. I'll do away with the narrative of the sociopathic attributes of large corporations, but apple irrevocably threw the craft of editing for many into a confused, wet, dumpster.

at the very least, Apple do not exhibit anything like a duty of care for the skills dependant bill paying environment they allowed to build for a decade.

And this a company that farts on and on, and farts on again, about the crazy ones. Einstein, Da Vinci, and them. Apple - the phone maker.

they make phones.

Had they told any of us they were planning a core prosumer editing shift as early as 2008, as they indeed were, we might have been better prepared.

Editing is a reality - it is required to continue in the same fashion as stage managers, cinematographers, gaffers, ap's, and the rest of the general stuff -

in the end... apple may actually be seen to be a particularly heinous, opportunistic entrant.

One who messed about when desperate, rolled up half of editing, and then suddenly found themselves changing, in scale and nature.

And they then exhibited not a single duty of care.

they are a total disgrace.

I truly mean this: Apple are a sheer f**king disgrace as a company.


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Lance BachelderRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 4:30:56 am

Hey I was as angry as you Aindreas - I was at the Apple NAB event and then felt betrayed once FCPX was released - it was total garbage to me and my colleagues. Like most FCP7 users I was wondering what I would do next - I've been a Vegas beta tester for over 10 years but the latest version is so buggy it's unusable. I did several rounds as a PPro tester and gave up after they refused to listen to even the most basic feature requests. I was hopeful for MC6 but again a total dud - Avid did nothing to improve audio performance and track count and I hate cutting in it. In the meantime 10.01 came out, hmmm.... I didn't really give it a thought. Then 10.02 came out so I stuck a new 5770 card in my old Mac Pro and gave it a chance. I have been pleasantly surprised and actually beginning to see the light here - I actually like FCPX! Does it need add'l features - of course but I can see the future and I think this thing is gonna be okay. I'm actually having fun and excited to edit each day (I've been cutting since 1986)

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Irvine, California



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John HeagyRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 4:39:09 am

I'm hopeful as well, and see FCPX as a challenge. We are used to playing the Apple chess game. At the same time I am communicating with Apple and telling them what we need. It is hard to trust Apple after all the bone head decisions they made.

If they respond and show some commitment to professionals, then it may work out. They do need to step up and eat a bit of crow in my opinion.

John Heagy


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Scott RobertsRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 6:46:43 am

[John Heagy] "If they respond and show some commitment to professionals, then it may work out. They do need to step up and eat a bit of crow in my opinion."

What was their reason for dropping Shake? Seemed very promising, caught on, then dropped abruptly in 2009.

LittleBlackBird.net

My Blog


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John HeagyRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 3:04:46 pm

[Scott Roberts] "What was their reason for dropping Shake?"

Shake is a 2D compositor. With Nuke and the 3D compositing trend, Shake would have needed a complete overhaul to compete and support 3D geometry. Apple just didn't want to put in the effort. They did offer up the source code for $50,000. Too bad they didn't do the same for FCP7.


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Frank GothmannRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 10:36:23 am

[Lance Bachelder] "I was hopeful for MC6 but again a total dud "

That's a bizarre assessment. MC was and has been the preferred NLE for long form even when FCP classic was still around and it will become even more so now. And there is a reason for it. You may not like the UI (I love it) but it's toolset is superb and it is very stable and reliable in everyday workflows. To me, FCPX is an oversimplified bug fest extraordinaire, I'd prefer virtually anything else that is out there and I'd never trust it for something complex or a project on a tight deadline. Vegas unusable? What?


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Oliver PetersRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 2:22:39 pm

I think what all of this points to is that we can no longer (and shouldn't) place all of our eggs in one basket (NLE, company, platform, etc.). The tools are cheaper so why not enlarge the toolkit? I think Apple is perfectly fine with that as their strategy. No need to do it all. From a user standpoint, it's obvious that it has been foolish to put all of your trust in one company.

Many folks have viewed FCP, Avid, PPro, AE (insert your preference here) as the one place that they have to do everything. That's changing and the FCP X process has forced everyone (at least in the FCP world) to re-evaluate their post production strategies. FCP X may never be up to the task of doing what Media Composer does in the collaborative editing world. For some the mix will be FCP X for cutting and something else for finishing. Or maybe one tool for short form and another for long form. It just means the world is no longer a simple, neat little place.

Toss in Lightworks and Media 100 for fun. The game isn't over yet.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Herb SevushRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 3:46:06 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Many folks have viewed FCP, Avid, PPro, AE (insert your preference here) as the one place that they have to do everything. That's changing and the FCP X process has forced everyone (at least in the FCP world) to re-evaluate their post production strategies. FCP X may never be up to the task of doing what Media Composer does in the collaborative editing world. For some the mix will be FCP X for cutting and something else for finishing. Or maybe one tool for short form and another for long form. It just means the world is no longer a simple, neat little place."

While it's true I've worked on many different editors in my time I've never liked switching around, I'm a serial monogomist.

I never liked switching between a Steinbeck and a Moviola for that matter. I'm always amazed when I see editor's shifting back and forth between FCP and Avid. When I have to do that I'm constantly thinking about which keys to hit and what menus to find, and the moment that happen's I've lost my whole flow as an editor.

When I'm cutting well I'm totally unaware of what my hands are doing -- I'm simply thinking about the show and my hands are making the cuts by themselves. When I'm working well like that, if someone asked me what the keystrokes were for a given function I was doing, I often wouldn't know - not consciously at any rate. It takes months of full time use to get to that state with a NLE, and those months, while often enjoyable for the learning, are not nearly as productive. At the end of that time, when I am finally able to edit instinctively, if I have to go back to the previous system I had been using, I would be lost all over again.

So for me, the idea of using different NLE's for different projects would be a nightmare.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Chris ConleeRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 3:54:38 pm

[Herb Sevush] "So for me, the idea of using different NLE's for different projects would be a nightmare."

I'm sort of with you on that, Herb. Although I do it to some extent, I too find it better to just stick with a single editor as much as possible. I've been messing with Pro Tools, and when I spend a few days with that, I'm constantly pressing the wrong damn keys in Avid at work. Totally screws up my flow, as you said.

Chris


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TImothy AuldRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 4:05:14 pm

I know what you mean. Recently someone called me to ask how to to accomplish a particular function in FCP 7 that she was used to doing with MC. I confidently told her it could not be done in Final Cut, hung up the phone and then almost immediately realized that while talking to her my fingers, entirely of their own volition, had performed the very function in FC that I had just assured her could not be done.

Tim


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Franz BieberkopfRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 4:36:28 pm

[Oliver Peters] "I think what all of this points to is that we can no longer (and shouldn't) place all of our eggs in one basket"

Oliver,


I think this is an interesting point (and it's been discussed here before). The drop in costs of software and hardware supports this approach (though we do seem to be reaching some sort of plateau in that respect).

On the other hand, it does suggest that software should be evaluated on how well it functions in the context of collaboration.

When FCPX (one might say, "proudly") can't open legacy projects while competing NLEs can, it does seem to suggest a certain counter-collaborative philosophy. While it's hard to count them out until they figure out what they really want to do with XML, what I've said above does align with their consumer strategy.

It'll be interesting to see what comes of the Adobe / Auto Duck collaboration.


Franz.


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Aindreas GallagherRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 1:20:27 pm

in truth - i'm not madly over concerned - i just really, really, really want to keep trying to kick apple in the shins.

apple deserve to be verbally kicked in the shins, once a day, for the rest of their life for this mess.

A tiny fragment of their brand image burnt away? a casual customer for their other products lost? that, I say, is a good day.

I genuinely do want to make someone in apple cry and hold their shin.

I might even want to pinch their arm, possibly give them a wedgie.


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Chris ConleeRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 3:23:13 pm

[Lance Bachelder] "I was hopeful for MC6 but again a total dud - Avid did nothing to improve audio performance and track count and I hate cutting in it."

As somebody else mentioned, I think this is a bit of a stretch. Of course the last section of your statement is the total truth -- you simply don't like to use it, and that's subjective, and totally legit.

But Avid is the king of long-form narrative and shared workflows for a reason: it'll deal with tonnage of footage from now until the cows (no pun intended) come home without so much as a hiccup, and share it all quite happily amongst dozens of users and round-trip audio and video with all manner of vendors and artists, etc. Far from being a "dud," I'd say.

Personally, I LOVE the interface and find it to be completely transparent and it gets out of my way. It's based on a film cutting paradigm, and I find that very intuitive. I recognize others don't. Yes, I wish they're remove the stupid 16 playable audio track limit. I don't run into that wall too often, but when I do, it IS frustrating.

Chris


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Lance BachelderRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 6:39:03 pm

I actually like the Avid interface as well. I like that I can make my bin thumbnails as large as I want as I get older lol - as pissed as Aindreas is at Apple, that's how I feel toward Avid - how do they overhaul their NLE and make it 64bit and do nothing to improve audio performance? Forget 16 tracks - I had 3 sound effect tracks in MC6 on both Mac and PC and couldn't hear all of them at the same time without playing over them over and over until it built up a preview I guess. I use more than 16 tracks on everything I do - feature films and animation and need more tracks!!! I'm ready to go 100% MC6 and Pro Tools 10 but not until they improve audio in MC6 - I don't have time to roundtrip all day and hate constantly doing mix downs which is really just another workaround. Sound is half of everything I do and I need more than 16 tracks, which is really only 8 stereo paris as I cut.

Funny because of this problem, I took a 3rd look at FCPX and actually started liking it since the 10.02 update...

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Irvine, California



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Christian SchumacherRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 7, 2012 at 4:27:23 pm

[Lance Bachelder] "Sound is half of everything I do and I need more than 16 tracks, which is really only 8 stereo paris as I cut.Funny because of this problem, I took a 3rd look at FCPX and actually started liking it since the 10.02 update..."

I'm not sure if you had investigated this enough on Avid. Let me clarify, Avid had always supported 24 tracks of audio, granted it only allows 16 to be monitored and to be used at the mixer, all due to hardware limitations. But, for that matter, FCPX doesn't even have a mixer for riding audio levels, and it also has other limitations (like you cannot expand the "timeline" in fullscreen) So, if it has a faster waveform build, allows more than 24 and has some nice features with effects, that doesn't mean it is better than Avid in this regard. It all depends on the workflow, as always. I strongly suspect that will change in the coming years, and we will be able to verify which solution is going to be more constrained. And I bet it will be FCPX.


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Jeremy GarchowRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 7, 2012 at 6:41:12 pm

[Christian Schumacher] "But, for that matter, FCPX doesn't even have a mixer for riding audio levels,"

Nope, but you can ride the audio slider in the inspector. (one channel/group at a time).


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Chris HarlanRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 8:52:57 pm

[Chris Conlee] " It's based on a film cutting paradigm, and I find that very intuitive."

I know lots of folks agree with you, but I think of it as being based on the Source/Record paradigm of analog television editing. It reminds me much more of an old CMX or a Convergence system than anything from the old film world. There was an offline system that I used for a long time--the Montage--that had a very strong film editing metaphor. It was single monitor, like FCX, and had revolving bins that were also timelines. It was very interesting to work on, but the lack of source/record probably killed it off.


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Steve ConnorRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 8:52:17 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Editing is a reality - it is required to continue in the same fashion as stage managers, cinematographers, gaffers, ap's, and the rest of the general stuff -

in the end... apple may actually be seen to be a particularly heinous, opportunistic entrant.

One who messed about when desperate, rolled up half of editing, and then suddenly found themselves changing, in scale and nature.

And they then exhibited not a single duty of care.

they are a total disgrace.

I truly mean this: Apple are a sheer f**king disgrace as a company."


I see you've started your Avid training Aindreas!

"FCPX Agitator"


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Jason WoodRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 5:12:28 am

I'm actually kind of looking forward not jumping back and forth between the two systems. FCP is great, but Avid is no slouch. Hey man, we're getting paid to craft stories... Life is good no matter what we're cutting on. Now I just need to brush up on the Avid effects editor in the case I have to take a GFX heavy clip show job this year. Nesting is my friend, nesting is my friend, nesting is my friend.


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John MoffatRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 11:48:08 am

I can't see any established Post Production business adopting FCPX. If Apple keep developing FCPX it will be a major threat to many post houses business model and therefore it is in there interests not to work with it. How much do you charge for a FCPX Dry Hire when the producer sitting next to you has it on their latest MacBook Pro? Or if someone develops a colour accurate laptop screen?

This is part of the reason Post Production services has been named (along with print newspapers) as an industry in terminal decline (http://tinyurl.com/6weqwll). FCPX is not complicated to use (just different) and anyone would be producer coming out of college, who is interested in the industry, will be able to do pretty advanced edits on it. I think people will always pay for talent (I hope anyway) but the industry is changing fast, the technical side of making content is becoming easier and cheaper and importantly broadcasts days are numbered....

What I'm trying to say is the success or failure of FCPX won't be measured by how many Post Production houses use it (they won't) but how many in-house post-services, producers and small 1 or 2 man bouquets house use it for part of there work.


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Chris HarlanRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 3:15:49 pm

[John Moffat] "If Apple keep developing FCPX it will be a major threat to many post houses business model and therefore it is in there interests not to work with it."

How is FCP X any more of a "major threat" to post houses than any other NLE? I'm having trouble imagining that.


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Oliver PetersRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 3:21:10 pm

[Chris Harlan] "How is FCP X any more of a "major threat" to post houses than any other NLE? I'm having trouble imagining that."

Agreed. Haven't we already gone through that logic with FCP 1?

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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John MoffatRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 6:03:13 pm

I think FCPX is more of a threat because the skill base to use FCPX and get professional results is a lot lower than any other editor IMO. The automated way it manages media in the background and the trackless timeline requires less of a learning curve. The way FCPX controls how you edit, hides advance features, standardises timeline aspect ratios might annoy professional full time editors but this also reduces the chance to screw the edit up. If you are an up and coming assistant producer doing a rough cut isn't this the ideal NLE for you? Let's not forget how cheap it is as well.

Maybe I'm wrong but I can see FCPX being used in-house on producers laptops in a way Avid and Premiere can't be. There will be more in-house time and less at the post houses. Many shows require high-end finishing only a post house can offer. Many do not. It's not an all or nothing equation but it is clear the balance is changing and FCPX could be an important part of the change... when it stable... less buggy... and has better xml inter-change...


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Herb SevushRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 6:36:10 pm

[John Moffat] " If you are an up and coming assistant producer doing a rough cut isn't this the ideal NLE for you? Let's not forget how cheap it is as well."

No because once the young producer has his cut he/she has no way of transmitting the project info to a real editor, who will definitely not be working on FCPX. The only rough-cut to finishing workflow from Apple is Imovie to FCPX.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Marcus WarrenRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 7:17:34 pm

Awwww...everybody, just download the latest version of Media 100 Suite 2.x and be happy :)


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Chris HarlanRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 7:56:04 pm

[John Moffat] "I think FCPX is more of a threat because the skill base to use FCPX and get professional results is a lot lower than any other editor IMO. The automated way it manages media in the background and the trackless timeline requires less of a learning curve"

Dude, operating NLE's isn't brain surgery. Its like typing/word processing. If you are trying to be a professional, working full time, and you can't get over the minor inconvenience of learning some concepts and keystrokes that are less complicated than driving a car and learning traffic laws, then it really doesn't matter, because you won't be able to survive in the business environment anyway. These automations are for casual users who would never have any need of a post house.

[John Moffat] "The way FCPX controls how you edit, hides advance features, standardises timeline aspect ratios might annoy professional full time editors but this also reduces the chance to screw the edit up. If you are an up and coming assistant producer doing a rough cut isn't this the ideal NLE for you?"

No. Because there is no way to transfer it out of its closed environment. Again, if you can't learn to use the handful of keystrokes or mouse movements required to do a rough cut on any of the other systems, my guess is that you are useless in the post world, anyway.


[John Moffat] " Let's not forget how cheap it is as well. "

So what?! There is a point where that doesn't matter anymore, and FCX is well past it. The difference between a 10,000 dollar system and a 30-75000 is significant. The difference between three or four hundred dollars and Fifteen hundred dollars is nearly meaningless when you set it next to the cost of the equipment and other essentials for operating a business.


[John Moffat] "Maybe I'm wrong but I can see FCPX being used in-house on producers laptops in a way Avid and Premiere can't be. "

How? What can FCX do on a laptop that I haven't been able to do for the last five years with FCP, Premiere, and a little more recently, Avid. As soon as I post this, I'm going back to doing what I've been doing all morning, which is making sellects reels from 1080i source material on my Macbook Pro.


[John Moffat] "There will be more in-house time and less at the post houses. Many shows require high-end finishing only a post house can offer. Many do not. It's not an all or nothing equation but it is clear the balance is changing and FCPX could be an important part of the change... when it stable... less buggy... and has better xml inter-change..."

This has been happening for more than a decade, ever since the first "broadcast quality" i/o cards appeared in the second half of the '90s. The erosive damage to post houses began to occur many years before FCX. In that regard, FCX is very late to the revolution.


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Herb SevushRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 3:57:59 pm

[John Moffat] "but the industry is changing fast, the technical side of making content is becoming easier and cheaper and importantly broadcasts days are numbered...."

The technical side is becoming harder day by day: more formats, more codecs, more wrappers, 3D, 4K, MXF, AVCintrad, AVCHD, DNxHD, is ProRes dying, what about the quicktime gamma shift - just how much more complex do you want it to get? And if you think an individual Ap is going to protect you from having to understand these elements, then there's a bridge in brooklyn I would like to sell you.

As for Broadcast, get back to me when a broadcaster goes under. There are more cable channels than ever producing more shows than ever for a growing audience. Doesn't seem like a funeral to me. Lower ratings for individual networks does not equal the end of broadcast TV.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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John HeagyRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 4:16:56 pm

[Herb Sevush] "As for Broadcast, get back to me when a broadcaster goes under. There are more cable channels than ever producing more shows than ever for a growing audience. Doesn't seem like a funeral to me."

Depends on the definition of "Broadcaster", If it's over the air broadcast they are currently a drop in the bucket compared to cable and sat. Is Netflix a broadcaster, especially now with their own exclusive series coming out?

Content will always be created by "networks" or "studios" etc, the delivery is what will change. If the giant bundling deals are bypassed by this new delivery paradigm you will see cable networks die and the individual studios replace them delivering content ad hoc.

This new type of delivery will eventually make broadcast standards a thing of the past. People will be able to view PAL, NTSC, 24p etc... on standard agnostic devices. Any flat panel TV with an HDMI input is such a device today.


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Herb SevushRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 4:33:45 pm

[John Heagy] "Depends on the definition of "Broadcaster""

True.

[John Heagy] "Content will always be created by "networks" or "studios" etc, the delivery is what will change."

Always has been true, but the delivery is as crucial to the studios as the content, dating back to when each movie studio owned it's own chain of theaters. The studios need a cost effective way to reach a "broad" range of viewers - the anarchy of the internet will not due. That's why movie theater's still exist in the US - they are a cost efficient way of legitimizing content because of the whole advertising and marketing ecosystem that supports them. The same is true with "Network" TV. I also don't think the bundling practices of the cable providers with their fiber infrastructure are going away anytime soon. The demise of TV as we now know it is still many years away.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Walter SoykaRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 4:37:04 pm

[John Heagy] "Depends on the definition of "Broadcaster", If it's over the air broadcast they are currently a drop in the bucket compared to cable and sat. Is Netflix a broadcaster, especially now with their own exclusive series coming out?"

I think "broadcast" has become shorthand for traditional video delivery. The kind that plays on televisions, and the kind that still dominates video viewership and advertising spending.

I agree that the definition is broader than it used to be and doesn't have anything to do with RF anymore.

I'll invoke Justice Stewart Potter -- I think we all know broadcast when we see it. I'd include things like your cable provider's video-on-demand service (which is still fundamentally based on realtime video delivery to a dedicated video device), but I'd exclude things like YouTube (which is fundamentally based on file delivery to a general-purpose device).

That distinction may fade, but I don't see it happening as soon as many here do. Television is just too easy from the user's perspective.


[John Heagy] "Content will always be created by "networks" or "studios" etc, the delivery is what will change. If the giant bundling deals are bypassed by this new delivery paradigm you will see cable networks die and the individual studios replace them delivering content ad hoc."

The new delivery paradigm still needs the old pipes to actually get the bits from the server in the cloud to your living room.

If the original production studios (a.k.a. cable networks) can no longer collect subscription fees from cable providers, how will they finance production?

High-value original production would become even riskier from a financial standpoint than it is today. Cue another "great wasteland" speech.


[John Heagy] "This new type of delivery will eventually make broadcast standards a thing of the past. People will be able to view PAL, NTSC, 24p etc... on standard agnostic devices. Any flat panel TV with an HDMI input is such a device today."

HDMI wraps a few video standards into a single wire protocol. It doesn't obviate the need to correctly target one of those standards in the first place.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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John HeagyRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 5:22:57 pm

[Herb Sevush] "The demise of TV as we now know it is still many years away."

True

I read that internet media is most popular as a replacement to traditional "TV broadcast" in Europe. I'd guess that has a lot to do with the fact that HD is not nearly as prevalent there as here in the US. In Europe, watching 720p on one's computer trumps the quality of their widescreen SD.

[Walter Soyka] "If the original production studios (a.k.a. cable networks) can no longer collect subscription fees from cable providers, how will they finance production?"

Ask Netflix how they are paying for Lilyhammer.

http://www.bgr.com/2012/01/04/netflixs-first-original-series-lilyhammer-pre...

Also, networks pay production companies, and then cable companies pay the networks. Netflix pays the production company... done. In the future the production company may not need Netfix. Distribution will become very granular. It will be much like how thousands of websites are killing the hundreds of magazines and newspapers.

Of course Comcast buying NBC/Universal is a hedge against this trend.

[Walter Soyka] "HDMI wraps a few video standards into a single wire protocol. It doesn't obviate the need to correctly target one of those standards in the first place."

In the case of one's cable box yes, but not a MacMini or Laptop. I can play 30.00p out of my WDTV and probably 25 and 24p via HDMI to my 6 year old JVC. This is also why interlaced content will die out eventually. It looks like crap on a computer monitor. That can't happen fast enough for me.

John Heagy


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Walter SoykaRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 5:37:02 pm

[Walter Soyka] "If the original production studios (a.k.a. cable networks) can no longer collect subscription fees from cable providers, how will they finance production?"

[John Heagy] "Ask Netflix how they are paying for Lilyhammer."

Netflix collects subscription revenue just like the cable providers do. It's just too risky to fund a major production based solely on the possibility of future à la carte sales.

Major television products available online for a couple bucks (or for free, with ads) are subsidized by the advertising sold in their huge broadcast distribution, as well as subscription fees for the cable networks. This requires serious scale that doesn't exist online yet.


[Walter Soyka] "HDMI wraps a few video standards into a single wire protocol. It doesn't obviate the need to correctly target one of those standards in the first place."

[John Heagy] "In the case of one's cable box yes, but not a MacMini or Laptop. I can play 30.00p out of my WDTV and probably 25 and 24p via HDMI to my 6 year old JVC."

Understood -- but my point was that content is still being produced to meet some technical standard. A single video stream must conform to the same standard, even if all the original source footage did not.


[John Heagy] "This is also why interlaced content will die out eventually. It looks like crap on a computer monitor. That can't happen fast enough for me."

Hear, hear!

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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John HeagyRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 6:07:01 pm

[Walter Soyka] "Netflix collects subscription revenue just like the cable providers do"

Correct, at $7.99 instead of ten times that for Sat or Cable. The scale required is trending down.

[Walter Soyka] "Understood -- but my point was that content is still being produced to meet some technical standard."

Agreed, what I should have said is one will no longer needs to meet all standards for universal delivery. One can shoot 30p or 25p or 24p and make it available universally. It means the eventual end of the 24p universal master. Another thing I can't wait to happen. The slow aerial pan of Prague in the latest Mission Impossible movie made me ill, and 3D 24p action movies are unwatchable. Go Jackson and Cameron shooting 48fps!


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Walter SoykaRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 7:43:03 pm

[Walter Soyka] "Netflix collects subscription revenue just like the cable providers do"

[John Heagy] "Correct, at $7.99 instead of ten times that for Sat or Cable. The scale required is trending down. "

Of your $80 cable bill from your cable provider (like Cablevision or Time Warner), only a fraction of that goes to any one of the cable networks (like AMC or Bravo) that's sponsoring the production of the content.

I do agree with you that the way broadcast video is delivered will continue to change over time; I just think that the economics still favor scale players, and I think television broadcast will still be with us for the forseeable future.

Louis C.K. making money distributing his own content is the exception, not the rule; not only is his content relatively inexpensive to produce, he's secured a wide audience through broadcast.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Jeremy GarchowRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 8:53:38 pm

[Walter Soyka] "[Walter Soyka] "Netflix collects subscription revenue just like the cable providers do"

[John Heagy] "Correct, at $7.99 instead of ten times that for Sat or Cable. The scale required is trending down. "

Of your $80 cable bill from your cable provider (like Cablevision or Time Warner), only a fraction of that goes to any one of the cable networks (like AMC or Bravo) that's sponsoring the production of the content.

I do agree with you that the way broadcast video is delivered will continue to change over time; I just think that the economics still favor scale players, and I think television broadcast will still be with us for the forseeable future.

Louis C.K. making money distributing his own content is the exception, not the rule; not only is his content relatively inexpensive to produce, he's secured a wide audience through broadcast."


Maybe this is relevant: http://news.cnet.com/8301-31001_3-57353134-261/hbo-forces-netflix-to-go-els...


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Chris HarlanRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 9:09:42 pm

The other big issue here is Net Neutrality. The laws seem to be leaning, currently, in favor of the sanctity of last mile provider, and quiet legislation and selective, precedent-setting legal action is further forcing us, in the US, down the road of unregulated last mile. Once it is firmly established that Comcast has every legal right to control the speed with which you can access iTunes and Netflix, the game is going to change. Its a real shame that this whole issue is so badly ignored.


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Herb SevushRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 5:39:39 pm

[John Heagy] "Ask Netflix how they are paying for Lilyhammer."

The fact that I am a Netflix subscriber and watch their streaming videos regularly and had never heard of this show says all you need to about the difficulties in reaching a large audience when going outside the regular distribution channels.

Movie and TV reviews in both print and broadcast media is an incredible source of free ultra-targeted marketing that are lost when using outside distribution. This is why direct to DVD movies were never as profitable as true theatrical releases. Just a guess, but Netflix will probably go for a traditional TV release after premiering on-line.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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John HeagyRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 5, 2012 at 6:15:11 pm

[Herb Sevush] "The fact that I am a Netflix subscriber and watch their streaming videos regularly and had never heard of this show says all you need to about the difficulties in reaching a large audience when going outside the regular distribution channels. "

I expect you will just prior to it's first "airing".

The fact that I knew about it and don't subscribe would refute that. I heard about on an entertainment news site. Doing something for the first time is never easy. I not saying any of this stuff will happen tomorrow. The trend seems clear tho. Clearly there are powerful forces that will oppose it. Let the games begin!


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Andrew KimeryRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 7, 2012 at 1:46:31 am

[John Heagy] "Correct, at $7.99 instead of ten times that for Sat or Cable. The scale required is trending down."


$7.99... on top of whatever you currently pay your ISP, presumably a cable, satellite or phone company, for high speed internet. And who knows what state Netflix will be in a couple of years from now.

Netflix seemed poised last year to spin off it's DVD business to raise capital and when that failed they had to hold a private stock sale and announce to investors not to expect any profits in 2012. Not to mention that the sweetheart deals they used to have for streaming rights are expiring and their licensing costs might jump from $180 million in 2010 to an estimated $2 billion this year.


-Andrew

3.2GHz 8-core, FCP 6.0.4, 10.5.5
Blackmagic Multibridge Eclipse (6.8.1)



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Dennis RadekeRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 7, 2012 at 3:58:28 pm

Well, I can't pass up a chance to respond to this, but there a few responses to put in so, I will hope to address them all... ;-)

[Chris Harlan] "What would be an interesting wrench for me is if Adobe can convince a few major boutiques to throw in with Premiere because of their deep involvement with After Effects. I would be happy to see some competition remain here-abouts."

I think we already have. We just don't advertise every place that does. Granted though, I think we have room to grow. Anecdotal story for you is that the AE product manager is going to boutiques as you would expect and many times the first thing they want to talk about is Premiere Pro.

[David Roth Weiss[ "I just don't see Premiere as a real contender in the L.A. arena any time soon."

David, as a guy who lives locally in the NYC area, I see LA and NYC as the last bastions of Avid. There is enough work in these towns and Avid presents workflows and necessary hardware that make Avid a clearer choice in some situations. That said, I think long term I am very excited about our prospects as I know of many things coming down the road. Still, Adobe Premiere Pro is winning in both of these towns and I see that trend continuing.

[Chris Harlan] "I think if Adobe were aggressive"

I don't see how we can get any more aggressive than we already are - do you disagree?

[Bret Williams] "And Adobe pretty much told the Apple editing community to shove it for a few years with Premiere Pro until CS3."

Not true really. When Steve Jobs made the decision to abandon the legacy OS9 infrastructure for OSX, he made some hard choices and it was tough for Apple users for a while. Over time, those problems disappeared. In a similar manner, when we went about re-architecting Premiere into Premiere Pro, we made the strategic decision to focus on Windows where most of our market share was at the time. With CS3 we returned to the Mac and since then (5 years) have made a pointed effort of making sure Mac and PC versions are functionally identical. We are committed to the Mac market and as others have pointed out, we're growing leaps and bounds on the Mac, so we're in it for the long haul...

[Bret Williams] "CS6 is their last shot. If they can refine Premiere Pro into something stable and a bit less clunky feeling they'll have a chance. I think they're destined to lose the battle in the end because Avid was already number two or on par with FCP installs with Premiere pretty far behind. Premiere would have to convince all the FCP houses to switch to them to make a tremendous impact. But it appears it's about split. So it'll probably be a 70% Aivd, 30% Premiere/FCP X world for awhile. Corporate is headed Premiere because it's freelancers can get up to speed and it's a relatively similar fit. Broadcast and Film will go back to Avid, where Avid still had a large share anyway. Most corporate production seems to have forgotten Avid altogether."

Okay, lots here...

No one ever has their "last shot". If we've learned anything in the 20+ years of NLE, is that the dominant players can change. Avid was king, Apple ate their lunch for a season, Adobe has come up, Sony and GVG are nipping at everyone's heels... Lightworks - who knows? Maybe. If FCPX fixes some of the standard complaints then it will be a three horse race again. For the immediate statement of CS6 being our last shot - I'll say I'm extremely happy with my 'last' bullet. ;-)

Premiere Pro believe it or not (I'm guessing not) is #1 in terms of installs and seats. Growing 45% on the Mac over the last year or so doesn't hurt either. Plus, you've got the still larger PC platform. Of course, you can argue that it's how you count the seats and you're right. Apple and Avid similarly love to bake their numbers.

70% Avid/ 30% Premiere Pro/FCPX would strike me as backwards in the general market, but you're talking feature film and/or boutique, so I can agree. Broadcast is changing and not necessarily towards Avid. Avid is still expensive and broadcasters now all already have Premiere Pro on their systems. In a tight economy and changing business model, broadcasters are looking at alternatives. I know, because I'm the guy getting the calls. There is a much larger reason why some broadcasters would think twice about Avid, but I will not speak it here as it would be classless...

I'd say, 'my 2 cents' but I think it's better to say...

$2.50, ;-)
Dennis - Adobe guy


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Steve ConnorRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 7, 2012 at 4:39:32 pm

[Dennis Radeke] "There is a much larger reason why some broadcasters would think twice about Avid, but I will not speak it here as it would be classless..."

Oh go on.......!

Steve Connor
"FCPX Agitator"
Adrenalin Television


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Chris ConleeRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 7, 2012 at 4:58:17 pm

[Dennis Radeke] "There is a much larger reason why some broadcasters would think twice about Avid, but I will not speak it here as it would be classless..."

I think you would have had to have hour head in the sand for the past 6 years to not notice Avid's deteriorating bottom line. I too have been wondering how Hollywood will deal with it should Avid cease to be a going concern. For that market alone, I suspect somebody (Adobe?) would step in and scoop up the Media Composer and Pro-Tools product lines, but who knows?

Having come from the Amiga oh so many years ago, then Adobe, then Speed Razor, then Incite, then D/Vision, then, then, then..., I'll always be able to find some tool to get the job done I think.

Chris


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Chris HarlanRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 7, 2012 at 6:13:47 pm

[Dennis Radeke] "[Chris Harlan] "What would be an interesting wrench for me is if Adobe can convince a few major boutiques to throw in with Premiere because of their deep involvement with After Effects. I would be happy to see some competition remain here-abouts."

I think we already have. We just don't advertise every place that does. Granted though, I think we have room to grow. Anecdotal story for you is that the AE product manager is going to boutiques as you would expect and many times the first thing they want to talk about is Premiere Pro. "


[Dennis Radeke] "[Chris Harlan] "I think if Adobe were aggressive"

I don't see how we can get any more aggressive than we already are - do you disagree? "


Dennis, I would love to see Premiere making serious penetration here in LA. I think it would be great for the promo world, and I think you'll find many preditors who would agree. But, it took years for FCP to establish its sizable minority in LA (and who knows, maybe majority in the promo world). Avid is now a lot more accessible, and the word I'm getting from everyone I talk to is that's where they are headed. I've never heard anyone say "Premiere" in the small talk in bays and machine rooms over the last five months. I would certainly like to, as I've mentioned.

As far as "aggressive," I have no idea what you guys are doing behind the scenes, so maybe you are being so, and I just don't know. But "aggressive" to me would be for Adobe to approach a larger house or studio in either New York or LA--say, Trailer Park--and make them an economic offer they can't refuse. Once somebody of their size is in place, and freelance hands are moving in and out of there, the conversation in the machine rooms and bays will change. Short of that though, I don't think it will. Of course, most of us already own Premiere any way.


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Oliver PetersRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 7, 2012 at 11:01:41 pm

[Dennis Radeke] "I think we already have. We just don't advertise every place that does. Granted though, I think we have room to grow. Anecdotal story for you is that the AE product manager is going to boutiques as you would expect and many times the first thing they want to talk about is Premiere Pro. "

I think in the coming year we are going to hear more about Premiere Pro in the high-end LA and NY markets. I do a number of interviews for DV with A-list feature folks and often Premiere is present in the workflow as a conduit into AE. There's definitely more of an interest to now check it out. The Bandito Brothers ("Dust To Glory") seem to be the standard bearer for Premiere in the film world. I believe there are quite a few former FCP luminaries who are newly testing their workflows with Premiere Pro, so you may well see press over the coming year as those shops settle in for a transition.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Chris HarlanRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 9, 2012 at 4:44:24 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "[John Heagy] "Correct, at $7.99 instead of ten times that for Sat or Cable. The scale required is trending down."


$7.99... on top of whatever you currently pay your ISP, presumably a cable, satellite or phone company, for high speed internet. And who knows what state Netflix will be in a couple of years from now.

Netflix seemed poised last year to spin off it's DVD business to raise capital and when that failed they had to hold a private stock sale and announce to investors not to expect any profits in 2012. Not to mention that the sweetheart deals they used to have for streaming rights are expiring and their licensing costs might jump from $180 million in 2010 to an estimated $2 billion this year.


-Andrew
"


Exactly. And, add to that the behind-the-scenes Net neutrality battles that are being fought between last mile providers and content distributors. People seem totally unaware of the fact that one of the likely potential outcomes of a decade of net neutrality litigation and legislation (that we are currently midway through) is that a cable provider could just turn Netflix or iTunes off, or hobble it in such a way as to make it useless compared to that company's On Demand programming.


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TImothy AuldRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 10, 2012 at 12:48:54 am

Yes, as long as someone - anyone, for any reason - is handing them more green. Anyone without significant funds would be really screwed. Forty years ago our government realized that this could happen and placed real and necessary curbs on radio and TV.

Tim


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Chris HarlanRe: Bunim/Murray chooses Avid
by on Jan 10, 2012 at 1:33:04 am

[TImothy Auld] "Yes, as long as someone - anyone, for any reason - is handing them more green. Anyone without significant funds would be really screwed. Forty years ago our government realized that this could happen and placed real and necessary curbs on radio and TV.

Tim
"


And telephones. My bet is the FCC won't be able to stand up to Verizon's (and other related) suits because of the way that the FCC framed the issue. My guess is that a law along the lines of the 1934/96 Telecommunications Act--or even an amendment to that law to include broadband--is required. Such a thing doesn't seem likely, though. Most Americans seem to think that an any attempt to create Net Neutrality/Open Internet laws are part of some sort of plan to protect porn. Taxpayers' dollars built the Internet, and few people have any idea how close we are to its privatization. I'm glad that major corps. like Apple, Netflix, and Google have a lot to lose as well.


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