Creative COW SIGN IN :: SPONSORS :: ADVERTISING :: ABOUT US :: CONTACT US :: FAQ
Creative COW's LinkedIn GroupCreative COW's Facebook PageCreative COW on TwitterCreative COW's Google+ PageCreative COW on YouTube
APPLE FINAL CUT PRO:HomeFCP ForumFCP XFCPX TechniquesFCP TutorialsFC ServerBasics ForumPodcastFAQ

Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...

COW Forums : IRIDAS

VIEW ALL   •   PRINT
Share on Facebook
Tom Barton-HumphreysEdit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 6, 2011 at 9:02:16 am

I have been an edit assistant at a post-production company for about a year now, and really want to apply myself as an editor with a view of going Freelance in the next couple of years, but I am just not sure which software to purchase after the disappointing FCPX. I am at a decent level of understanding & speed with FCP7 which is fine for now, but there's no future in it.

What would you guys recommend, stick with 7, Avid, FCPX??


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Steve ConnorRe: Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 6, 2011 at 11:18:38 am

If you have to choose one, choose Avid.

"My Name is Steve and I'm an FCPX user"


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Robin lewisRe: Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 6, 2011 at 1:49:03 pm

Don't buy any of them Tom, at this stage you do not need to buy anything especially if you are trying to second guess the industry. You at this stage will not be making any money from the software so except for FCP X which is the cheapest of them all, they are expensive and there are other ways to learn them, like borrowing a work laptop or even better getting your work to let you edit.

Some editors are really stuck to one programme and I think that is a massive mistake, my advise learn them all especially FCP 7 and Avid this will put you in better stead when you go freelance.. even better learn After effects, cinema 4D, motion, and a become a pro at grading the more versatile you are the better.


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


Robin lewisRe: Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 6, 2011 at 1:51:55 pm

Also I'm not sure FCP X will be a disappointment some very promising features and it has only just come out.

100% they released it far too early but don't get carried away it won't become a standard in the next 6 years.


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Tom Barton-HumphreysRe: Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 6, 2011 at 2:16:33 pm

Cool, that's good advice. I currently have access to FCP7, FCPX as well as the Adobe suite (We're a FCP7 facility but have a couple of licenses for the others).

It's less about cost & more about what I invest my time in.

To be fair, FCP7 is what I am most accomplished with, I'm familiar with video layers, crossfades, file structure, trashing preferences blah blah blah...

I am concentrating on speed at the moment... well shortcuts + copying edit styles from the completed projects.

I guess now would be a good time to try Avid or Adobe


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

David Roth WeissRe: Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 6, 2011 at 3:31:41 pm

The answer to your original question also has a lot to do with the market you work in, which the others failed to mention. For instance, in Los Angeles, switching to Avid from FCP is essentially a no-brainer, simply because no one uses Premiere. I'm not putting Premiere down, just stating a fact. It may well be that Adobe's new surge to garner the professional market may change things in the near future, especially when ver 6 arrives and when the Iridas acquisition is eventually rolled into the Adobe suite, but at least for now, L.A. is heading toward being all Avid all the time.

So, the big question in you case Tom would be, where are you, and what are the others in your sphere using now or switching to over the next year?

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Bringing "The Whale" to the Big Screen:
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-2-MikeParfit...

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


Jeremy GarchowRe: Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 6, 2011 at 4:05:50 pm

Take advantage of free trials and the lower cost of entry with the "switch" deals. The low cost won't last forever.


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Neil PatienceRe: Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 6, 2011 at 4:13:48 pm

Hi Tom

Have to say agree with David, where you are and what market you are in will, to a degree, inform your decision and shape any advice given. From a UK perspective, Premiere is currently nowhere in London too, I have been freelance for 20 years and have worked in just about every editing environment you can imagine. Never once used Adobe in anger. I work through the longest established broadcast freelance agency in London, they have been going for 25 years, and I just asked them today if they have ever been asked for a Premiere editor - the reply - "We were once a few years ago but other than that never."
It will be very interesting to see if that changes though, it may well do.

I would advise you try to learn Avid, it is by far the most used system by broadcasters, facility houses and many production companies in London or LA by the sound of it.
Your FCP knowledge is useful though, In London there are still quite a few FCP suites around and most people who have FCP seem to be sticking with it at the moment. I am pretty sure FCPX wont get a serious look in for some time, dont ignore it but keep it on the back burner for now.

Again as an example my agency wont take anyone on who does not know both Avid and FCP, that goes for editors and assistants.

I would download the free Avid demo and have a play with it for a while before buying it though.

best wishes
Neil
http://www.patience.tv


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Tom Barton-HumphreysRe: Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 6, 2011 at 4:47:47 pm

Thanks for the reply David.

Based in Bristol, UK. The only circles I have contact with are natural history & ob-doc really.. it's all FCP based, though the BBC does use Avid. Guess that narrows it down!
T


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


David Roth WeissRe: Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 6, 2011 at 4:56:27 pm

[tom Barton-Humphreys] "Thanks for the reply David."

You've very welcome.

[tom Barton-Humphreys] "Based in Bristol, UK. The only circles I have contact with are natural history & ob-doc really.. it's all FCP based, though the BBC does use Avid. Guess that narrows it down!"

Yep! I often say, it's not what I like that really matters, it's what my clients like that's the ticket, as they are the "deciders." You might fall in love with an app, but if your clients need an editor who can exchange files and projects with some other app, they'll find someone they like who can service their needs, and you'll be left twiddling your thumbs.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Bringing "The Whale" to the Big Screen:
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-2-MikeParfit...

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Neil PatienceRe: Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 6, 2011 at 5:13:08 pm

The first time I saw FCP used to any degree was in Bristol at ITV.
They had FCP and Final Touch, as was, with CP100 panels. Getting stuff in and out of FCP to FT in those days was a black art. But I learnt a lot from those guys. It did seem that Bristol was using FCP more than in London at that time but there were way fewer companies down there and to an extent it was becoming a hub for new media companies in the West and SW.
I would still pick Avid as the next thing to learn. You will be more use to more people that way. Don't try to make it like FCP though. It is different and you will get on much better if you accept that from the start.
(I made the mistake of wanting FCP to be like Avid when I first learnt it)

best wishes
Neil
http://www.patience.tv


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Steve ConnorRe: Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 6, 2011 at 4:21:51 pm

[tom Barton-Humphreys] "It's less about cost & more about what I invest my time in.

To be fair, FCP7 is what I am most accomplished with, I'm familiar with video layers, crossfades, file structure, trashing preferences blah blah blah...

I am concentrating on speed at the moment... well shortcuts + copying edit styles from the completed projects.

I guess now would be a good time to try Avid or Adobe"


Avid is certainly the biggest learning curve if you have never used it and would certainly require more time than the others to get up to a reasonable speed. PPro is not a huge leap from FCP7.

Call around some facilities in your area and ask what they use and what their plans are, that might give you better idea of where to go.

BTW don't get too caught up with speed at the expense of the actual craft of editing

"My Name is Steve and I'm an FCPX user"


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


Jamie FranklinRe: Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 6, 2011 at 4:04:46 pm

FCx will never be a standard. So while it might be handy to poke around and get to know it since online media will be strong and there is a place for this dreadful software, I wouldn't dedicate your time that could be better spent elsewhere on another NLE that is actually going to take FC7's place and doesn't annoy you to no end with a redonkulous timeline. I think there are trials for Avid, but wait until MC6 comes out before committing.

I'll be going the same route as 75% of new projects I'm looking at these days are requesting Avid. CS5 is fine, get to know that beast until the new Media Composer is released...

Good luck!


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Tom Barton-HumphreysRe: Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 6, 2011 at 4:50:19 pm

Surely once Apple implament broadcast monitor support, more plugins, OMF (not using that plug-in, forgot the name), tape support etc it'll be a contender?
Cheers for your input!
T


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Steve ConnorRe: Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 6, 2011 at 4:59:07 pm

[tom Barton-Humphreys] "Surely once Apple implament broadcast monitor support, more plugins, OMF (not using that plug-in, forgot the name), tape support etc it'll be a contender?
Cheers for your input!
T"


I think the BBC have purchased a massive amount of PPro seats recently, not sure if they get to the NHU though.

With the cuts announced today they may not be much work at the BBC!

"My Name is Steve and I'm an FCPX user"


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


Neil PatienceRe: Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 6, 2011 at 5:19:31 pm

I keep hearing that the BBC have purchased PPro but I have not seen it anywhere.
That said the BBC is a huge place and my experience is mostly London centric.
Tom says BBC Bristol is Avid and I am pretty sure BBC Glasgow is Avid.

At Broadcasting House in London there are, as far as I know no PPro suites at all. I have worked on many programmes there and they have mostly Avid suites but some FCP suites too. Many rooms can be either.

However the BBC are moving out of London and moving to Salford in Manchester, I have yet to see what they will have there.

It would be interesting to hear from anyone who has seen PPro at the BBC and which part of the BBC they have it.

best wishes
Neil
http://www.patience.tv


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

David Roth WeissRe: Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 6, 2011 at 5:20:42 pm

[tom Barton-Humphreys] "Surely once Apple implament broadcast monitor support, more plugins, OMF (not using that plug-in, forgot the name), tape support etc it'll be a contender?"

Maybe. Maybe not...

The magnetic timeline may well prove to be the factor that takes "surely" out of the equation above.

Should proper "tracked" exports in FCP X ultimately be implemented by Apple or a third party, the question is, will long-form editors will really want to work for months with one view of their project, only to look at and implicitly trust an entirely different view of the same complex project just before taking it to their favorite mix facility?

Personally, my intimate knowledge of the layout of every event on the timeline in one of my edits is always quite helpful when I go into a mix, as the mixer is almost always seeing the project for very first time. Do I want to be seeing it for the first time too when I'm on the clock at a mix facility? I don't think so...

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Bringing "The Whale" to the Big Screen:
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-2-MikeParfit...

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Jamie FranklinRe: Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 7, 2011 at 5:50:43 pm

I don't think so. Like I said, it might serve a purpose, but it won't be a standard.

People defending it as a 1.0 comparing it to the 1.0 of the first Final Cut always seem to exclude the legacy and the truths inherent in a multi-track nle that is really the standard, and for a reason.

The features missing doesn't say much of the timeline that won't prorate to the 11 years of complete control and flexibility.

Some people find it comfortable being in a timeline that won't allow you to layer an audio file where you want, watching it snap back to it's static track. I don't get that. That doesn't say much to whether this software catches on, but I think it says there are more issues than it's ecosystem and tape support....


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


Andy NeilRe: Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 7, 2011 at 6:20:10 pm

[Jamie Franklin] "People defending it as a 1.0 comparing it to the 1.0 of the first Final Cut always seem to exclude the legacy and the truths inherent in a multi-track nle that is really the standard, and for a reason."

And those who say it doesn't compare seem to conveniently forget FCP's history, and where NLEs were at the time. FCP was completely unusable for complex professional workflows.

Multi-cam editing existed in Avid for years before FCP was even in version 1. Why didn't FCP v1 come with multi-cam?

FCP could only even injest 2 channels of audio at a time.

Just because it's low on features now, doesn't mean it won't have features down the line. Sure, you may not want to wait for them, many people don't; that's fine. But you have no idea what will be standard in the years to come, especially if this new approach (and really, it's not all that different in many respects) ends up being more efficient.

[Jamie Franklin] "Some people find it comfortable being in a timeline that won't allow you to layer an audio file where you want, watching it snap back to it's static track. I don't get that."

Sounds like you haven't spent all that much time with FCPX (if any at all). You most certainly can layer an audio file where you want. Or a video file for that matter.

Andy

http://www.timesavertutorials.com


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Jamie FranklinRe: Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 7, 2011 at 6:37:15 pm

Snide rude comments aside, please give us a screen shot of the audio tracks. Lay in a video and drag an audio file to a track lets call that one dialogue. Then take another audio file and lay it in underneath...lets call that music. To test your analysis place it further down the track please without anything above it.....
(uhoh! what is it doing?)
Then try and mute that "track" you say exists...

With your video, do the same thing, try and build a 3 track multi layer without anything underneath one of the videos...
(uhoh again! what is it doing?)


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Andy NeilRe: Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 7, 2011 at 6:59:38 pm

[Jamie Franklin] "Then try and mute that "track" you say exists..."

I never said FCPX had tracks. I'm just not as hung up about it as you. I can edit without tracks. I'm sorry you can't/won't. You made it sound as if clips couldn't be placed in time where you want them because of the magnetic timeline which is incorrect. Tracks are only really necessary for order of operations and organizations. The operations can be performed exactly the same in FCPX, and now Roles exist to help organizational workflows.

Heck, in a further revision, roles might even come as color separated clips making it even easier to distinguish dialogue and music at a glance. But for now, I can see them fine as highlighted clips in the timeline. Oh, yeah, and I can mute them all at the same time too.

How exactly does having the music two levels away from the video track at one point and 1 level away at another, affect the edit in any way? The playback is the same.

Andy

http://www.timesavertutorials.com


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


Jamie FranklinRe: Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 7, 2011 at 7:23:17 pm

Then you totally misrepresented my problem with the program. Which is my problem, not yours, so your snide comments aren't necessary. Since my problems with it actually exist, you just don't care about them...

I said, you can't place them where you want, you said you could...the fact is you can't. The end

"Tracks are only really necessary for order of operations and organizations."

What an incredibly obtuse statement...

Tracks aren't only necessary for your limited scope. I use tracks for a variety of purposes. It offers much more flexibility than something that snaps in gaps or forces one to fill them...


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Andy NeilRe: Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 7, 2011 at 7:45:56 pm

[Jamie Franklin] "Which is my problem, not yours, so your snide comments aren't necessary"

I'm sorry you find my comments snide, it's not my intention. But let's not pretend that your comments have been any purer ("uhoh! what is it doing?")

[Jamie Franklin] "Tracks aren't only necessary for your limited scope. I use tracks for a variety of purposes."

Ok. Go ahead. Tell me what uses you put tracks to that are not related to organization or order of operations and which FCPX's magnetic timeline hampers. I'm interested.

Andy

http://www.timesavertutorials.com


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Jamie FranklinRe: Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 7, 2011 at 7:54:04 pm

You want to get into an argument now over who is being the bigger jerk? I wasn't even responding to anything you posted and you went ahead and said I was pretty much lying even though nothing in my statement was inaccurate...

You can't drag an audio file where you want, it snaps back. that is a fact...you have to layer it underneath or fill the gap in order to have any control over where you slide a file. Again, that's a fact and in my opinion not how I want to edit.

To that you went and insinuated I'm just pulling that out of my butt and haven't used the software...It almost matters if you think it's better to edit this way...but you can vocalize so without the bs



Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


Andy NeilRe: Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 7, 2011 at 8:20:31 pm

[Jamie Franklin] "I wasn't even responding to anything you posted and you went ahead and said I was pretty much lying even though nothing in my statement was inaccurate..."

I never called you a liar, nor even said you were "pretty much lying."

I said that it sounded as if you hadn't spent much time with the application based on this...

[Jamie Franklin] "Some people find it comfortable being in a timeline that won't allow you to layer an audio file where you want, watching it snap back to it's static track."

When I read that line, it sounded to me as if you were saying that you couldn't put an audio file anywhere you wanted "in time". In other words, that the audio file HAD to be butted up against another clip which is a common misconception about FCPX's magnetic timeline. You only said "where" and apparently only meant "where vertically". I read it differently because it doesn't matter as far as playback whether your music is on track 1/2 or 51/52. I said as much in my other response.

I'm not sure why you're getting so angry. I am honestly curious about the "variety of uses" you mentioned for tracks that aren't related to organization or order of operations.

Andy

http://www.timesavertutorials.com


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Jamie FranklinRe: Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 8, 2011 at 1:03:18 am

"Sounds like you haven't spent all that much time with FCPX (if any at all)."

Completely unnecessary. Don't bother trying to mistake my annoyance for anger. You seem to want to argue for the sake of arguing to no end just because I don't like this software. My post was to the OP, not you. Cheers


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Andy YoongRe: Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 8, 2011 at 12:24:59 am

[Jamie Franklin] "Then take another audio file and lay it in underneath...lets call that music. To test your analysis place it further down the track please without anything above it.....
(uhoh! what is it doing?)
Then try and mute that "track" you say exists...

With your video, do the same thing, try and build a 3 track multi layer without anything underneath one of the videos...
(uhoh again! what is it doing?)"


Hi Jamie,

There are no tracks in FCPX, but you can move clips anywhere in the time line by using gap clips. You can creating them using the position toll or 'command W'. If you want to mute a selection of audio clips, select them and press 'v' to disable them. You can save this selection by making them into a compound clip or secondary storyline.


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


Jeremy GarchowRe: Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 8, 2011 at 4:12:04 am

[Jamie Franklin] " Lay in a video and drag an audio file to a track lets call that one dialogue. Then take another audio file and lay it in underneath...lets call that music. To test your analysis place it further down the track please without anything above it.....
(uhoh! what is it doing?)
Then try and mute that "track" you say exists...

With your video, do the same thing, try and build a 3 track multi layer without anything underneath one of the videos..."


in all fairness, this is all possible in FCPX, minus putting the clip where you want in vertical space (although you can determine the layer order), including having the clips named music and dialogue non destructively. You can mute whole sections, or selected clips, whatever, with a click or two.

It just doesn't work the way you "want" (read, have been forced) to. You can also export multitrack QTs in one pass.

But you know all this, you just don't like it. That's cool.


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Jamie FranklinRe: Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 8, 2011 at 8:05:35 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "in all fairness, this is all possible in FCPX, minus putting the clip where you want in vertical space (although you can determine the layer order), including having the clips named music and dialogue non destructively. You can mute whole sections, or selected clips, whatever, with a click or two."

Yes, but, in my opinion, it is extremely cumbersome to do so. And after a while, annoying to all end. When I'm sliding files around, testing sound elements and creating (*key word, creating*) an environment I'm supposed to be focusing on as a viewer, an artist and as an technical editor the last thing I want to be worried, or engaging in, is slugs, compound clips, connected clips, and forced layering operations. Then, if I want to mute a TRACK, which I know doesn't exist, I have to highlight and disable instead of a very simple operation found in FC7...click. What if I have a bunch of "layers" I don't like, lock tracks, click-highlight delete in 7. Smooth as silk...or I basically have to pre-build a canvas (still missing a viewer) and mimic a system that is indeed closer to what a traditional NLE is, because lets face it, its a better way to work and more efficient, but without half the function....don't get me started on the auto scrubber....so why in effin sake am I doing this again...oh right, cause I'm a luddite who needs to get over the past (that worked better)...

It is one of the most cumbersome programs I have EVER used. There is no fluidity. This is not simplified as some suggest, or dumbed down, it's just, pardon the expression...retarded. How is this magnetic timeline more flexible...? When did flexible become a bad thing...

All I ask is that a timeline remain flexible. So the push back with the "living in the past" meme and afraid to learn, or that I just don't get it or my new fav, I haven't even used it at all...is really coming from some disproportionate defense of a program that is (in their minds) justifiably (??) crucifying how many editors prefer to work...


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Jeremy GarchowRe: Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 8, 2011 at 2:16:28 pm

We all know how you feel about FCPX, Jamie. It's quite literally almost all you talk about here on the Cow.

I will move this to a new thread as to not take away from the OP.


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


Jamie FranklinRe: Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 8, 2011 at 4:50:14 pm

Well, it didn't need to turn into another rant until I got jumped on for a rather benign statement...

All good.


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Jeremy GarchowRe: Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 10, 2011 at 6:28:23 pm

[Jamie Franklin] "Well, it didn't need to turn into another rant until I got jumped on for a rather benign statement...

All good."


You should join us here:

http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/335/16979

I love hearing comments like yours as it will ultimately make the app better, or help the ones who are giving it a chance know when to really move on.

Jeremy


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Andy NeilRe: Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 6, 2011 at 5:14:10 pm

[Jamie Franklin] "FCx will never be a standard."

You must be from the future. Oh wait, you're from the PAST. Because I seem to remember the same thing being said way back in 1999 about a little used program that I bought along with my first G4. I mean after all, the only way you could get video in or out was via a firewire cable. I mean really! Firewire? Are you kidding me?

Andy

http://www.timesavertutorials.com


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


Chris HarlanRe: Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 6, 2011 at 4:10:23 pm

Tom,

What city are you working in? What are the local shops doing? Answer this and you pretty much have your answer.

I agree with others that it is a pretty good idea to know everything, which I'm sure you agree with, as well. As to the system you build up 12 tons of muscle memory with, it really depends on the micro system you are part of. How ever much I might like to give Premiere a go, the answer for me--in Los Angeles--seems clearly to be Avid, though I suppose it is possible that Premiere might take hold in some boutique promo houses because of AE.

So look around your town and start asking.


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Mike GooodRe: Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 6, 2011 at 5:51:02 pm

Don't worry! You will learn FCPx really fast - it's all about editing skills, if you know what you are doing - you always find the features in any program you using!


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Neil GoodmanRe: Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 6, 2011 at 7:18:40 pm

I dont why everyone says Avid has such a high learning curve ? If you can grasp the concept of 3 point editing, which is basically "Editing 101" than your basically good to go. The biggest learning hurdle is all the different import options and when to Import/AMA/Transcode, what resolutions etc, but its all covered in the help. I started in avid in 1996, switched to FCP around version 4, and now am back on Avid again. Other thana few muscle memory mishaps with shortcuts, I was sailing smooth once again in hours, and now withthe smart tool, it basically behaves the ame way FCP did.

I'll echo the rest in saying that ive never heard the words "Premiere" muttered in a professional environment since well, ever. I do see its become a viable tool, but if the industry doesnt adopt it, which i dpoubt it will in LA, than whats the point of learning it .

Neil Goodman: Editor of New Media Production - NBC/Universal


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


Neil GoodmanRe: Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 6, 2011 at 7:23:46 pm

oh and i also doubt FCPX will be adopted anytime in the next 5 years. The magnetic timeline is a turnoff, no source viewer makes it hard to do match edits, and in a fast paced broadcast/film enviroment, theres not a lot of time to really get into the metadata style organizing of FCPX, which if you dont use, kinda sets you back when working with it. The general vibe amongst most editors in LA is that its a joke and they wouldnt touch it with a ten foot pole. Now i realize it has it strengths, but when the weaknesses outweigh the good, then its kind of a no brainer.

just my 2 cents.

Neil Goodman: Editor of New Media Production - NBC/Universal


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Shane RossRe: Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 6, 2011 at 11:37:00 pm

To be fair, Neil, there is a bit of a learning curve when it comes to knowing Avid. I was an assistant for 3 years before I felt like I knew all I needed to know to cut multiple layers and complex compositions. Something that took me just a couple days to figure out in FCP. It's the effects and keying and all that that are different. And all the settings that, even when you use an Avid for 10 years, you still wonder "where the heck is the setting for THAT hidden?"

But I agree with the other statements. Adobe, as good as it is, no one in broadcast production in LA or NY use it at this time. It isn't even on their radar as an option. But neither was FCP, until a few of us used it because it did things we needed done and Avid didn't do those things. And then we fought hard to get FCP accepted. But now that that is over, and FCP will fade away from this town, the gap will be filled with Avid mainly, but I am sure that Premiere might start to make it's way into the nooks and crannies, and soon might be a big part.

But really, if you want to work on Network TV, feature films, or national broadcast shows on cable...Avid is the one to learn. FCP will be around for a few more years until it no longer is useful. But Avid is the main option here. (Until the few who start using Premiere fight hard to get it accepted in this town)

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Grant GommRe: Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 7, 2011 at 12:33:14 am

[Neil Goodman] "I dont why everyone says Avid has such a high learning curve ? If you can grasp the concept of 3 point editing, which is basically "Editing 101" than your basically good to go. "

I have to agree. I've only used FCP since I started editing in 2003 until FCPX came out. I then downloaded the Avid trial and followed some of their tutorials, and while I found some differences, it didn't feel like that much of a stretch from FCP. Admittedly I don't know Avid that well, but I did quite like it and I was able to work well with it. I'm really interested in seeing MC 6.

-Grant Gomm
http://www.blacklionproductions.com


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


Andy NeilRe: Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 7, 2011 at 12:50:30 am

Avid, Premiere, and FCP are all really similar on a basic level. When you're editing basic stuff, or off-lining without effects and such, there's not much difference and you can pick one up quickly.

However, the real learning curve is when you go past the basics. Avid and FCP handle effects completely different and for some things, there isn't really a correlation.

When you start dealing with promoting effects, advanced keyframing, painting, image handling, sequence to sequence editing, advance trimming and such, you start to grasp why it takes more than a couple of days/weeks/months to use it well.

Most ASLers (Avid as a Second Language) tend to try and make Avid work like FCP. Which is fine at a simple level, but terribly inefficient in more complex workflows. It's like they're driving a car in 2nd gear.

Andy

http://www.timesavertutorials.com


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Grant GommRe: Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 7, 2011 at 1:23:42 am

Well that is a good point. I never really did get past basic editing with Avid, so maybe I spoke too soon. I do plan on moving in the Avid direction for many of the reasons above, but what's the best way to learn Avid so that I don't edit in "second gear"? I mean, are there typical pitfalls prone to FCP users that are easily avoidable? Or is it just a matter of slugging through it?

-Grant Gomm
http://www.blacklionproductions.com


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Andy NeilRe: Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 7, 2011 at 1:39:22 am

Some of it you learn from your peers. I've been editing on Avid for 11 years now and I'm always learning some new shortcut or trick.

A little you learn from good books. I'm a fan of the Avid Handbook: Advanced Editing Techniques. Teaches everything you need to know about decomposing, multi-groups, etc.

Mostly, I just ended up cutting a ton of stuff on it. Best teacher there is.

My personality is such that when something doesn't work quickly or easily, or efficiently enough, I'm willing to slow down and figure out if there's a better/different approach. If there's one piece of advice I could give about learning any NLE, it's to NOT edit a certain way because it's the way you've always done it.

Andy

http://www.timesavertutorials.com


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


Owen WexlerRe: Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 6, 2011 at 10:02:33 pm

learn and be familiar with all of the "big three" apps. can't hurt.

I learned on FCP, migrated to Premiere Pro about a year ago and it's now my personal preference for most projects, learned Avid in case I ever found work at an Avid house... which I did... I work at one part-time now.

If you know FCP you'll pick up Premiere Pro in hours, there's very little that is different about it. Avid does have a little bit of a higher learning curve... the way it handles imports and manages media is different, the multi-cam functionality is much more complicated (Avid multigrouping is legendary for its difficulty and high learning curve), effects are handled differently and the different modes (trim mode, color correction mode, etc.) take getting used to if you are coming from FCP. Avid is still worth knowing because of how many houses and productions are using it, but I think Premiere Pro definitely represents the future of, at the very least, smaller shops that were cutting on FCP before, since the FCP editor's skillset is so easily transferrable to Premiere Pro. I don't see FCPX being widely adopted at this time.

long story short, learn em all.

Cinematographer - Editor - Motion Graphics Artist - Colorist

http://www.owenbwexler.com


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Daniel FromeRe: Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 7, 2011 at 3:28:44 pm

I'll chime in here too. I work in Toronto, and just like David says about LA -- it's becoming an "all Avid, all the time" place once again. Premiere Pro is not being used anywhere. There is a bigger battle between Media Composer 4.0 vs 5.5 if anything...


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Tom Barton-HumphreysRe: Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 7, 2011 at 3:46:51 pm

Thank you everyone for your input, everyone.

The general feeling seems to be;

FCX - not worth learning beyond basic functionality.

Avid Media Comp - not the simplest of the bunch, but widely used.

Adobe Prem - Great, but not currently used widely in the professional world.

FCP7 - 1 or 2 years before redundent


I think I'll get to grips with the basics of Adobe, get my head round the trickier side of Avid, but ultimatly continue editing on FCP7 until I get laughed at (or preferable just before then)


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


David CherniackRe: Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 7, 2011 at 10:52:03 pm

[Daniel Frome] "I'll chime in here too. I work in Toronto, and just like David says about LA -- it's becoming an "all Avid, all the time" place once again. Premiere Pro is not being used anywhere."

I also work in Toronto....on PPro.

I was recently in the DV Shop and was told they're selling more CS5 than MC...so there you go. Maybe you should qualify your comments a little more carefully.

I expect that most of the big shops will go aVID at keast for the time being, because it's the tried and true safe choice. I don't expect that to hold exclusively true in the future as PPro comes in as a test seat or two, and demonstrates it's advantages.

David
AllinOneFilms.com


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Daniel FromeRe: Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 8, 2011 at 3:01:36 am

[David Cherniack] "I was recently in the DV Shop and was told they're selling more CS5 than MC...so there you go. Maybe you should qualify your comments a little more carefully."

That's no surprise about the DV Shop. On the note of qualifying I think the onus on you here -- we're talking about helping an "edit assistant at a post-production company." Clearly getting him on the Avid bandwagon is going to be most helpful advice, while learning Premiere Pro is going to be something he can take his time to do while the industry catches up.


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

David CherniackRe: Edit Assistant, I was learning FCP7...
by on Oct 8, 2011 at 3:15:49 am

[Daniel Frome] "On the note of qualifying I think the onus on you here -- we're talking about helping an "edit assistant at a post-production company." Clearly getting him on the Avid bandwagon is going to be most helpful advice, while learning Premiere Pro is going to be something he can take his time to do while the industry catches up."

Hey, I wasn't the one making overgeneralized statements that no one is using Premiere in Toronto. That's clearly false as, at the bare minimum, I am. Obviously some other people are and more will probably do so in the future. He should learn Avid if he wants to get work today and he should learn PPro because, even today, it's a very useful tool. And it may serve him well in the future.

David
AllinOneFilms.com


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

VIEW ALL   •   PRINT
Share on Facebook


FORUMSTUTORIALSFEATURESVIDEOSPODCASTSEVENTSSERVICESNEWSLETTERNEWSBLOGS

Creative COW LinkedIn Group Creative COW Facebook Page Creative COW on Twitter
© 2014 CreativeCOW.net All rights are reserved. - Privacy Policy

[Top]