Canon XH A1 XLR inputs. Line/Mic options

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Canon XH A1 XLR inputs. Line/Mic options
by Phil Smothers on Jun 29, 2012 at 7:44:35 pm

I am fiming a stage production and want to plug my KMR 81 into one XLR and a control room feed from a 1/4" plug in the borad to the 2nd XLR input on my camers.

The problem is that the switch for the XLR is Mic/Line and it applies to both inputs. The mic works fine; I have Phantom on, Gain and attenuation off and I am using manual level control on the camera. But, I know what the gain setting will do, and I don't need it. What benefit is attenuation?

Should I set both imputs to mic? Then turn off the phantom for that input and manually control input levels? Attenuation on or off?

I had it setup last week, but I left it at both Mic, attenuation off, and I mistakenly left phantom on for the control room source. The audio was heavily clipped, but in a very narrow range of the overall waveform. I am comimg through the headphone jack on the board. SHould I have them turn that down low or medium or high?

I have attached a picture of the waveform channels. The one on the bottom is the Control room source.

Any suggestions?

Thanks

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Re: Canon XH A1 XLR inputs. Line/Mic options
by Peter Groom on Jun 29, 2012 at 9:25:43 pm

ok
In this situation id
1) leave power on for your mic.
2) turn attenuation off. agc is never a nice sound BUT if youre short on experience or will need brainpower elsewhere then it might save your bacon.
3) take a line level poast fader AUX feed from your board/mixer NOT a headphone. this will be hissy as hell.
4) set both inputs to mic level
5) pad down the desk feed to your cmera by putting a 40db before the input. (if youve a radio mic this might allow you to tx the feed and pad it down internally (Senn G3 etc.)
6) WEAR HEADPHONES. CHECK LEVELS, CHECK FEED FROM DESK AND PRESUME THEY WILL GET IT WRONG SO HAVE A PLAN B.

any more questions just ask
Peter

Post Production Dubbing Mixer

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Re: Canon XH A1 XLR inputs. Line/Mic options
by Craig Alan on Jun 30, 2012 at 2:08:39 am

I would use a field mixer that will allow you mic level in with phantom for your mike and line level in from the house board then output to your cam using line level. This will give you a lot more control. If this is not an option than everything Peter says makes sense but I would also get a pad with a variable 10/20/30 in case 40 is too much.

I am also pretty certain that channel one and two can be set independenently with the option of input one being used for both channels. From the manual:

Using the XLR terminals
1. Connect a microphone to one of the XLR
terminals.
To supply a microphone with phantom power, set the
corresponding switch to ON. Make sure to
connect the microphone first, before turning the
phantom power on. Keep the microphone connected
when turning off the phantom power.
2. Open the menu and select [AUDIO SETUP].
Select [CH1 INPUT] or [CH2 INPUT], and
select a setting option.
• Select [XLR MIC] or [XLR LINE] for channel 1 or
channel 2.
• When using the XLR terminal to record to only one
channel, use the CH1 input terminal and set [CH1
INPUT] to [XLR MIC] or [XLR LINE].
3. From the [AUDIO SETUP] menu, select [XLR REC CH], select a setting option and
close the menu.
Select [CH1] to record on channel 1 the audio from the CH1 input terminal or [CH1/CH2] to record the
audio on both channels.
4. If necessary, turn on the microphone attenuator (20 dB) by setting the corresponding
switch to ATT.
The microphone attenuator will only be effective when the input is set to [XLR MIC].
5. If necessary, adjust the gain of the input signal. Open the menu and select [AUDIO
SETUP]. Select [XLR 1 TRIM] or [XLR 2 TRIM], depending on the audio input you want
to adjust. Select a setting option and close the menu.
The gain adjustment will only be effective when the input is set to [XLR MIC].

MacPro4,1 2.66GHz 8 core 12gigs of ram. GPU: Nvidia Geoforce GT120 with Vram 512. OS X 10.6.x; Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170, Sony Z7U, Canon HV30/40, Sony vx2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

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correction
by Craig Alan on Jun 30, 2012 at 6:13:11 am

that was the Canon XH A1S. I guess that was one of the features they added.

MacPro4,1 2.66GHz 8 core 12gigs of ram. GPU: Nvidia Geoforce GT120 with Vram 512. OS X 10.6.x; Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170, Sony Z7U, Canon HV30/40, Sony vx2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

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Re: Canon XH A1 XLR inputs. Line/Mic options
by Phil Smothers on Jun 30, 2012 at 3:04:58 pm

Right to the last question; the XLR changes were added to the A1s.

But as far as pads go, I am uncertain what you mean. My options for the XLR's in the setup are to set a 12db gain and also set attenuation. As far as outputs, I think the only output left on the board is the headphone jack.

Not sure what I would use as a pad. Are you referring to an external device? Any recommendations? Also, I am using manual levels on both inputs, not auto.

Here is the waveform from last night, with the levels reduced; it just lowers the overall gain, but it still clips.

Performance is being filmed tonight, so, I may lose control room sound and just have to mix ambient.

Thanks for all of your help.

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Re: Canon XH A1 XLR inputs. Line/Mic options
by Craig Alan on Jul 1, 2012 at 1:35:59 am

These are pads:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/68600-REG/Shure_A15AS_A15AS_In_Line_A...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/68085-REG/Audio_Technica_AT8202_AT820...

From a soundboard line level out to mike level you would most likely need -40. But it varies and if you can't truly pre amp the signal it's harder.

With in-line xlr pads you connect one xlr cable to the pad and then another on the other end of the pad to your cam. However going out a headphone port ... not sure how usable that is or what you would need. Headphone ports are variable line level signals (I think is what they call them). They tend to have really cheap amps to power headphones. I know people have recorded this signal but I doubt there is any set standard for it. Wouldn't that also leave the soundboard operators without their headphones?

If they do not have an extra output you might look at the PA speakers that they are connecting to ... there might be a pass through. But the day of the event is cutting it close unless you have a bunch of problem solvers and audio experience. Like I said I solve a lot of these problems by taking a signal to a field mixer and working from there. A sound devices 302 mixer

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/292980-REG/Sound_Devices_302_302_Port...

Will give you a ton of control and improve your audio capture. It is an incredible deal for $1300. It will outlast your camera for sure.

I would not bother capturing audio that you know is clipping or sounds distorted. Good luck tonight and think seriously about adding to your audio capabilities. It really is half of what you do and by far the hardest to get right.

Next time take some pictures of the soundboard or whatever you are dealing with. Or try to get the user manual for it. And then ask what you need to use it with your cam.

In a pinch you can set your mike on a mike stand and aim it at the house speakers. This will not give you good sound but will capture the feel of the live event. Be sure to set your levels so as not to clip.

It is very difficult to capture good audio during an event where the emphasis is the live audience and not the video recording.

MacPro4,1 2.66GHz 8 core 12gigs of ram. GPU: Nvidia Geoforce GT120 with Vram 512. OS X 10.6.x; Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170, Sony Z7U, Canon HV30/40, Sony vx2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

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