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Cloud drawbacks as I see them.

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Tom DaigonCloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 5, 2013 at 3:18:53 am

Besides technical issues that might make the necessary web connection
for the monthly check by Adobe impossible (dead modem - down ISP or cable), the biggest drawback I see is this.

When I purchased the disks for CS6 I can edit forever with that software.

If I stop paying rent on the Cloud, I can no longer edit at all.

Im not sure why so many folks are so easily suckered into thinking monthly subscription payment is a good thing with issues like these.

Remember Murphys Law, if something can go wrong (with the Cloud) it will. :D

Tom Daigon
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Wilbert ThomasRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 5, 2013 at 3:40:43 am

I can definitely see your point that's why I still have my cs5.5 installed just in case. But I think Adobe strategy is to lure the next generation of editors to their platform versus the kids going to Final Cut X b/c of price.

Will Thomas
SpaceCherryFilms.com


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Tom DaigonRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 5, 2013 at 3:47:36 am

And lets be honest, it saves them a heck of a lot of money in the manufacturing and distributing of disks. From where I sit they reap more benefits then I do for the monthly rental approach.:D

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Michael GarberRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 5, 2013 at 4:56:32 am

While I agree about the cost, one benefit to digital-only is that they can now update on a more frequent basis. With discs, we would have to wait for the next version for major updates or features. Only bug fixes could really be made between versions.

Michael Garber
5th Wall - a post production company
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Michael HendrixRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 5, 2013 at 5:08:07 am

Tom, I can see your point, however, when you think about the price, at $50 a month, it would take 3 years to catch up to the price of the production suite. In those three years, you could go through 3 versions of upgrades. Not to mention the fact that you are getting the Master Collection at that price which I think would take another year.

I am of the mindset that if everyone were on the subscription, why would Adobe have to wait for a specific, timed release of a new version. They wouldn't make anymore money on it because they would have everyone's monthly subscription fees.



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Paul NeumannRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 5, 2013 at 12:11:47 pm

I have the CS6 Master Collection and have had a CS Collection of some sort since CS2. The Master Collection is far short of what you get with Creative Cloud subscription. With the subscription you now have access to everything Adobe releases, not so with physical discs.

I understand the reasoning for preferring to have the discs. The company I work for insists on the physical media (even though it's more expensive than a monthly subscription). But to be honest, I've never handled the discs. Not once. I download the trial, they purchase the license, send me the SS# and the discs get sent to another place where they're tagged and inventoried. I activate the trial and am on my way.


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Tom DaigonRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 5, 2013 at 1:21:59 pm

All I need is the Production Bundle so your first point is a moot one for users like me.

I have had to do re-installs due to several issues. Having media on hand expedites this process. Which is especially important if deadline are looming :D

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Tom DaigonRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 5, 2013 at 1:19:14 pm

Michael H., the price I pay yearly is the upgrade price, not the full retail price. Ive owned CS software for the past 15 years. Your math just doenst work when you factor this in for users like me.

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Petros KolyvasRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 7, 2013 at 7:13:46 pm

[Michael Hendrix] "Tom, I can see your point, however, when you think about the price, at $50 a month, it would take 3 years to catch up to the price of the production suite. In those three years, you could go through 3 versions of upgrades. Not to mention the fact that you are getting the Master Collection at that price which I think would take another year.

I am of the mindset that if everyone were on the subscription, why would Adobe have to wait for a specific, timed release of a new version. They wouldn't make anymore money on it because they would have everyone's monthly subscription fees."


Unfortunately this math only applies to those who work in single-user shops and don't have existing software.

Here's our issue with the cloud:

We're a small shop, 3 workstations/edit bays, many users depending on who's working on what project. We have two copies of CS^ Production Premium and 1 copy of the CS6 Master Collection. We've been upgrading since CS3 in most cases. That means we already have an investment in the software and in the twelve or so months that have elapse since the release of CS6 the averaged-out monthly cost of a CS6 SEAT (note - not USER) is about $29. The Master Collection seat is in the ballpark of $45.

Adobe wants us to pay $70 PER USER (with a one-year commitment per user) for a business creative cloud membership and doesn't take into account sunk costs in the software. Since one edit bay may have three different users at any one time, some on a project for a month, some for a year, etc. the cloud model is still too inflexible for us and I imagine the issues only get worse the bigger the team. If I had to foot a $210/month bill for three users on a single machine, I'd turn my back on Adobe pretty quickly.

Thankfully I still can buy the perpetual license.

--
There is no intuitive interface, not even the nipple. It's all learned. - Bruce Ediger


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Tom DaigonRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 7, 2013 at 7:25:21 pm

[Petros Kolyvas] "Thankfully I still can buy the perpetual license."

Petros, they haven't released any price or terms of use info yet, but Im not sure you WILL be able to buy the perpetual license. From all the Cloud marketing, Im getting the feeling that we CANT. And I hope I end up being proved wrong.

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Petros KolyvasRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 7, 2013 at 7:37:55 pm

I'm with you Tom, I hope I'm proved wrong.

Adobe only needs to look at how large portions of the editing community regard Avid's business practices (I'm not talking about their product) to realise that no matter how much your product is used or liked, you will force away a certain number of users and foster a ill-will that is hard to undo.

And, thankfully with Blender slowly becoming an amazing compositing tool and a Linux version of Lightworks right around the corner (we prepped a copy of 64-bit Ubuntu on a Mac Pro to try it out), FCPX at least fighting to stay relevant, and a growing number of other options, Adobe needs to be careful, despite the stellar features showcased in the upcoming versions of PrPro and AE.

Apple proved that just because you own a certain market, doesn't mean a misstep won't have your market turn some of its back on you and find something new pretty quickly. And those of us who feel that our experience and skill of editing transcends the tool aren't really afraid of change anyway since cut/trim/roll/slip etc are features I need the most and lots of NLE software has. ;)

--
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Ryan HolmesRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 7, 2013 at 8:04:00 pm

[Petros Kolyvas] "Since one edit bay may have three different users at any one time"

Why not just tie the Cloud account to the workstation instead of to the user? Create a generic ID/password for each workstation and you manage that. Whomever works on that station uses the generic account. That way you wouldn't have to do the business plan. Instead you could just do the $50/month individual account ($30/month if you already have an exisiting CS3 or later license) for each workstation.

Ultimately, I think Tom's main argument is the lack of perpetual license for the software. I think that's something Adobe should address somehow. Price-wise, the Creative Cloud is the best value I've ever seen if you run several Adobe apps - PPro, After Effects, Photoshop, Lightroom, etc. But again, Adobe appears to be moving to a software as service model and that's a drastic change for most of us.

[Richard Cardonna] "Maybe if we could prepay for the year it might workout specially for those who upgrade everyear."

You can. You can buy 3 or 12 month pre-paid memberships. You should probably read more about it on Adobe's page. It would answer many of your questions - http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud/faq.html

Ryan Holmes
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Tom DaigonRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 7, 2013 at 8:08:38 pm

[Ryan Holmes] "Ultimately, I think Tom's main argument is the lack of perpetual license for the software. I"

That is true, Ryan.

Tom Daigon
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Petros KolyvasRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 7, 2013 at 8:41:58 pm

As far as I can tell an individual account is $70/month per user for us. All three seats are Volume License seats in our shop and I don't know how the system works if we can convert volume licenses back to individual (non-team) cloud memberships. All our licensing is done through Adobe's LWS system.

While it seems that Adobe will let us define a user as a workstation, that's not the language they're using, since they don't say "per seat" but rather "Per User" for teams and I can't seem to find an answer as to what they consider per user. Can all users of a workstation use the applications licensed to a single user, because it's not at all clear and I've read quite a lot of the Cloud for Teams FAQs and question sheets.

And even at a discounted, non-teams price of $30/month, that's more than we pay now per seat AND if we decide not to upgrade we can still use the software.

--
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Richard CardonnaRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 7, 2013 at 8:45:35 pm

yes but for 600.00 and tons of programs i dont use. vs 395 for fill permanent lic upgrade.


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Petros KolyvasRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 7, 2013 at 8:50:49 pm

I'm with you... we have two seats of Production Premium because those users don't need Indesign, Fireworks or Flash and I'd rather not have to start paying for software I don't plan on using.

It's kind of like Adobe is doing to users what cable companies are doing: you pay for all the channels when you only want a few because they come packaged together.

It has always been this way to some degree, individual components were always dramatically more expensive than their bundled counterparts but at some point, users just need a specific set of tools, not every tool ever made, no matter how tempting the offer seems.

--
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Tom DaigonRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 5, 2013 at 1:26:42 pm

Michael G,as a beta tester in the past for Adobe and others, I can tell you that getting updates right away is not always a good thing. Living on the bleeding edge of new releases can have bad results sometimes. I prefer to wait a while before using any new release.

Tom Daigon
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Jeff PuleraRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 5, 2013 at 2:53:11 pm

Hi Tom,

You can certainly purchase the Adobe Install Media for $25 if you want to have DVD hard copies of the software on hand.

As for the "rental", not everyone can afford to lay out several hundred for an upgrade, or $1500 or $2000 at once to purchase, especially a small shop that needs multiple seats of the software. The Cloud deal allows the customer to budget a set monthly amount, and as mentioned, when a new version comes out, they have access!

I say "access" because you are not forced to upgrade right away, so if worried about bugs or you want to finish the current project before switching, you are free to do so and upgrade only when you are ready to then.

Also, if an editor leaves, business slows down, whatever, quit "renting" that seat then. You don't have the investment in software sitting on the shelf if you are not using it. If a big job comes in and you want to hire some temporary help, add a seat for a few months.

So the upside is always having access to the latest software without having to purchase an upgrade, small monthly expense versus large outlay, and ability add/remove licenses as needed.

Thanks

Jeff Pulera
Safe Harbor Computers


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Tom DaigonRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 5, 2013 at 3:03:59 pm

[Jeff Pulera] "You can certainly purchase the Adobe Install Media for $25 if you want to have DVD hard copies of the software on hand."

Jeff, does this statement apply to both the full purchase and the cloud rental situations?

I didnt think Adobe had discussed pricing or terms of use for CS Next yet.

Thanks for bringing up some other cogent points.Loosing the ability to edit if I stop renting just doesnt make sense to me if I can make a full purchase and continue editing with that version as long as I like.

As long as we all have options that fit our needs, all will be happy.

Tom Daigon
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Jeff PuleraRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 5, 2013 at 3:51:59 pm

I guess my comment about buying install media would need further review. I'm basing that on the current electronic upgrades. One can install from disc and then simply enter the serial to activate. Was assuming one might be able to do that with Cloud, but not verified.

But in any case, no one is being forced to use the Cloud, can still purchase, so not clear on why Cloud is an issue for anyone. Use what suits your needs.

Thanks

Jeff Pulera
Safe Harbor Computers


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Tom DaigonRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 5, 2013 at 3:56:01 pm

Have I not been clear stating the many reasons I dont want the cloud in this thread?

I thought I had. :D

I think this sums it up for me.Loosing the ability to edit if I stop renting doesnt make sense to me if I can make a full purchase & continue editing forever.

Tom Daigon
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Ivan M. SemeniukRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 5, 2013 at 5:35:54 pm

Creative Cloud membership offers lower up-front costs for new customers and those on older revisions. Users who already buy every new release won't necessarily be attracted it.

The subscription model effectively turns infrequent buyers into regular upgraders. Overall I share the perspective that Adobe is the big winner: direct sales at full MSRP, more reliable revenue stream, reduced production and logistics costs, and lower risk of piracy.


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Tom DaigonRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 5, 2013 at 5:41:42 pm

Very true. And as of now I have no idea if folks that want to make the full purchase and get the install disks will have that option with CS Next.

I just want to insure we do by speaking up and letting others know about the options they should have.And by letting Adobe know we want that alternative to the cloud.

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Ryan HolmesRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 5, 2013 at 6:51:27 pm

[Jeff Pulera] "You can certainly purchase the Adobe Install Media for $25 if you want to have DVD hard copies of the software on hand."

I was (still am I guess) under the impression that Adobe is doing away with discs. As in, you will not be able to buy them in the future. However, Walter's point that you can make discs off the downloaded file makes sense and could be a way around that. But I thought Adobe was moving to an all digital solution. No more discs.

[Michael Hendrix] " am of the mindset that if everyone were on the subscription, why would Adobe have to wait for a specific, timed release of a new version. They wouldn't make anymore money on it because they would have everyone's monthly subscription fees."

The "digital is faster to update" mantra seems like it always is pitched as a benefit (Apple does it now with their App Store), but like Tom said, those that live on the "bleeding edge" tend to bleed quite a lot - incompatible drivers, software conflicts, hardware conflicts, etc. I like having the latest and greatest version after it's been tested out and patched because no software ever operates at 100%, especially not on day 1. But nobody is forcing you to download and install the update, so you could just wait a bit I suppose.

I guess you're correct that this wouldn't tie Adobe down to a set release schedule, but they do seem squarely set on a new showing at NAB with release in May/June of the same year. In between the "updates" are just bug fixes, not major upgrades. The only companies I see doing major upgrades between NAB has been Apple with FCPX and Blackmagic with Resolve. Avid, Autodesk, and Adobe usually just roll out small patches for things. Major updates are left on a yearly cycle at this point.

[Walter Soyka] "I don't always lose Internet connectivity, but when I do"
[Walter Soyka] "I don't always re-install, but when I do"
[Walter Soyka] "I don't always drop my subscriptions, but when I do"

Walter this sounds the Dos Equis "Most Interesting Man in the World" lines. Maybe we could change it to the most interesting editor in the world..., ;-)

[Walter Soyka] "I think maintenance is the best of both worlds. The customer gets regular updates and doesn't feel locked in. The developer gets a regular revenue stream. I'd love to see Adobe offer something like this."

I think Walter is exactly right here. This is the "middle ground" and also where I'd like to see Adobe move. As Walter said, it's nearly identical to the Autodesk solution, which I like.

Ryan Holmes
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Tom DaigonRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 5, 2013 at 7:22:53 pm

And Ryan I think this a a crucial time to talk about this with the recent policy changes at Adobes in regards to software ownership and distribution.

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Ryan HolmesRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 5, 2013 at 7:36:59 pm

[Tom Daigon] " I think this a a crucial time to talk about this with the recent policy changes at Adobes in regards to software ownership and distribution."

It seems to be a change within the industry as a whole, and it's the idea of software moving from being a product you buy once to a service you pay for access to. Adobe's new model seems to make software a strict pay-per-access service like Netflix, Amazon Prime, or Hulu Plus.

The middle-ground as Walter mentioned, leaves it floating in between a full-on product or a full-on service. So paying $XXX to buy the software, and then having a yearly (or monthly?) subscription contract would allow the user to choose whether they want to maintain the updates or not. If they drop the subscription then they could get back into it, but would have to some type of additional fee to get back into the subscription.

Maybe Adobe could run a full on service approach and a licensed maintenance approach. Some users may only want the seats for 2-3 months as they ramp up for a production (live event, film, location shooting, etc.) and then don't need it again for a year or two. In that case, the cloud/all-digital approach is great. The other side would be the maintenance license for people who perpetually use it - educational, corporate, broadcast, post-house, etc. and they may want to maintain a license year to year. Or they may just want to buy it once and use it as-is for 2-3 years with no subscription plan and then purchase again down the road.

I don't have the answers, but I can certainly ask a lot of questions! ;-) Hopefully Adobe reads this and has more discussions internally (or externally with a test group) as to what's best for both its business model and its customer base.

Ryan Holmes
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Tom DaigonRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 5, 2013 at 7:57:31 pm

Excellent points Ryan.

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Walter SoykaRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 5, 2013 at 6:10:38 pm

I'll share a few thoughts of my own on the matter.


Regarding "I don't always lose Internet connectivity, but when I do, I prefer for my software to continue working"

From what I understand, the grace period for license check is 7 days:

http://forums.adobe.com/message/5005847
2. If I am "offline" (no internet accessibility) is it true that in as little as 7 days all of my Cloud licensed applications will be revoked even if my Monthly subscription is up to date?
Per the Creative Cloud FAQ here http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud/faq.html under General information the answer to question Do I need ongoing Internet access to use my Creative Suite applications? the anwer provided is: "Because your Creative Suite applications are installed directly on your computer, you will not need an ongoing Internet connection to use them on a daily basis. However, you will need to be online when you install and license your software, and at least once every 30 days thereafter. The software will alert you when you need to connect to the Internet for a license status check." The license status check has a 7 day grace period. So you just need to check in once every 30 days.




Regarding "I don't always re-install, but when I do, I prefer to do it from disc"

You can download the trial installers and keep them on a drive or make discs yourself, if you like. These will work fine with Creative Cloud authentication.

When installing a permanent license from disc or otherwise, you still need Internet connectivity to Adobe's servers to authorize your installation.



Regarding "I don't always drop my subscriptions, but when I do, I prefer to keep something for all the money I've put in"

I agree.

I think that Creative Cloud is a great option to have, as it lowers the upfront cost to zero, and as I realistically don't have the option of not upgrading from an interoperability standpoint.

I think perpetual license is a great option to have, as it carries no recurring fees.

There is a middle path. I prefer the maintenance model that companies like Autodesk and Maxon use: you buy into the software, then you pay a regular maintenance/subscription fee. As you as you're paying, you get updates. If you stop paying, everything you have licensed to that point is still perpetually licensed. If you want another update, you're going to have to pay retail for it, or pay extra to get back on subscription.

I think maintenance is the best of both worlds. The customer gets regular updates and doesn't feel locked in. The developer gets a regular revenue stream. I'd love to see Adobe offer something like this.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
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Tom DaigonRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 5, 2013 at 6:25:27 pm

Walter I completely agree with your summation.

I called Adobe to get detailed info and they have none as yet, which is understandable. I certainly hope they adapt the concept of a Maintenance approach or at the very least the perpetual.

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Steve EisenRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 6, 2013 at 12:21:33 am

Adobe has discontinued the Box copies of Creative Suite. There will not be any hard discs of the next version.

If you are a working professional, a 1 year subscription to Creative Cloud would pay for itself in 1 or 2 jobs.

Creative Cloud includes a lot more than just the Master Collection.

Steve Eisen
Eisen Video Productions
Vice President
Chicago Creative Pro Users Group


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Tom DaigonRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 6, 2013 at 12:26:22 am

Obviously you missed the point of the current discussion here or you did not read all the entries. Nothing is set in stone regarding alternatives to the Cloud. That is unless you work for Adobe and are privy to them. Adobe has not released any information on cost or terms of use of CS Next.

Read Walters pov on this subject. It will enlighten you how other pro software companies give their customers various options. Its your choice if you want to pay month after month to rent software and then walk away with nothing when you stop. I dont think that a smart way of purchasing software.

I prefer to let them know what I as a customer want for my business. Adobe prides themselves on listening to their customers. Here is another opportunity for them to do so.

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Tom DaigonRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 7, 2013 at 7:29:51 pm

I suggest all concerned folks that are on Twitter express these concerns to @Adobe. They do listen, their wonderful software can attest to that. Lets hope they are receptive to your feelings on this subject as well.

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David LawrenceRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 7, 2013 at 1:05:18 am

[Tom Daigon] "If I stop paying rent on the Cloud, I can no longer edit at all."

Tom, it's actually worse than that. If you stop paying, you lose the ability to open your files. Sorry Adobe, this is unacceptable to me.

There are two situations where I see Creative cloud making sense:

1) Shops that need to temporarily ramp up for production. And then

[Jeff Pulera] "...if an editor leaves, business slows down, whatever, quit "renting" that seat then. You don't have the investment in software sitting on the shelf if you are not using it."

Creative Cloud is perfect for this.

2) Students or anyone on a tight budget who needs or wants to try the software now, with minimal investment.

I'm less concerned about physical media. When I initially purchased the CS 5.5 Production Bundle, I did buy physical media, but when I upgraded to CS6, I downloaded the .dmg installer and archived it on my server. I feel an archived .dmg is just as good as physical media going forward.

Regarding updates, there's no technical reason why Adobe (or any software vendor) can't digitally deliver feature updates anytime they they want. I believe development, marketing and accounting cycles are much more important in driving feature upgrade release timing than physical media manufacturing.

The question each person has decide for them self is whether they're OK with the idea of losing access to their files if they stop paying or go offline. For me, any upfront savings are far outweighed by the risks. I need to own the software my business depends on. It's just that simple.

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Tom DaigonRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 7, 2013 at 1:13:19 am

David I really like Walters suggestion of a middle ground solution. Where I can outright purchase CS Next and subscribe to a maintenance program to get the updates. Read his entry if you havent. And please email Adobe with your concern. I know a lot of other small business owners are concerned about being forced into the Cloud where they dont have ownership of the software .

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David LawrenceRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 7, 2013 at 2:40:39 am

[Tom Daigon] "David I really like Walters suggestion of a middle ground solution. Where I can outright purchase CS Next and subscribe to a maintenance program to get the updates. Read his entry if you havent. And please email Adobe with your concern. I know a lot of other small business owners are concerned about being forced into the Cloud where they dont have ownership of the software ."

Agreed. I think Walter's suggestion of an maintenance program is outstanding. I'd be 100% onboard with something like that. Is there a suggestion page for licensing feature requests like this?

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Tom DaigonRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 7, 2013 at 3:10:55 am

If you are on Twitter contact Al Mooney (Production Manager for PrP). Maybe he can help direct you to the right person.

When you find out the best way to do it, please post here so other concerned folks can contact them as well.

Probably better if you dont mention my name. He seems annoyed that Im making a case out of this issue.

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walter biscardiRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 7, 2013 at 2:36:02 pm

[Tom Daigon] "When I purchased the disks for CS6 I can edit forever with that software.

If I stop paying rent on the Cloud, I can no longer edit at all.

Im not sure why so many folks are so easily suckered into thinking monthly subscription payment is a good thing with issues like these."


Well, yeah you can edit with it forever provided you stop upgrading your computer / hardware at the last point the software is stable. So now you're going to be stuck run outdated hardware to support really outdated software. Not saying it's not possible as I still get emails from people that start out, "Look I'm running Final Cut Pro 5 and I have this issue...."

The update from CS6 to CS Next is tremendous and gets rid of so many of the "annoyances" that slow down the editing process I really don't see why anyone would want to stay on 6. Adobe has been amazing in our discussions over the past year listening to our input, engaging us with their ideas and the result is nothing short of "checklist almost complete.

The POSITIVES of the Cloud are:

Must faster delivery of the product.

Lower costs since there are no physical products to make / ship.

Access to the entire family of products vs. paying a premium for specific bundles of software. Now I don't have to choose what to give up, I can have everything.

Adobe is just the first of what will be a gradual move of pretty much everything to Cloud Delivery. I have it running on two systems at the shop and my home based systems and while I was very suspect in the beginning, it's been a non-issue since I switched.

And the Activation / De-Activation to move around machines has been flawless so far too.

As for paying monthly, well as an Adobe owner you'd pay $30/month which is $360 / year. That's LESS than the upgrade Prices I paid from CS5.5 to CS6 Production Premium AND it includes everything. Far beyond what we had access to with Premium.

If you don't want to go Cloud, then don't, but honestly I really don't think the negatives are all that big an issue. If for whatever reason you're going to be out of internet access for 31 days or more, I'm sure Adobe Customer Support will have some sort of a solution for you to keep going. The positives FAR outweigh the negatives. Adobe really won me over with this concept.

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Tom DaigonRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 7, 2013 at 2:49:55 pm

You bring up some good points Walter. The only issue that really concerns me is the loss of the ability to use the program if for some reason I need to stop my subscription. I guess Im somewhat old fashioned about this.



Walter-"Well, yeah you can edit with it forever provided you stop upgrading your computer / hardware at the last point the software is stable."



As I understand it, I cannot edit forever with CS Next if I stop paying the monthly fee since I will loose activation of the software.

I really like Walter Soyas solution which is rooted in Avid and Autodesk subscription models.

I think that Creative Cloud is a great option to have, as it lowers the upfront cost to zero, and as I realistically don't have the option of not upgrading from an interoperability standpoint.

I think perpetual license is a great option to have, as it carries no recurring fees.

There is a middle path. I prefer the maintenance model that companies like Autodesk and Maxon use: you buy into the software, then you pay a regular maintenance/subscription fee. As you as you're paying, you get updates. If you stop paying, everything you have licensed to that point is still perpetually licensed. If you want another update, you're going to have to pay retail for it, or pay extra to get back on subscription.

I think maintenance is the best of both worlds. The customer gets regular updates and doesn't feel locked in. The developer gets a regular revenue stream. I'd love to see Adobe offer something like this.


I know lots of other folks have the same concern as I do on this issue. Knowing how good Adobe is at listening to its customers, Im hopefull they can address this one in a manner that makes everyone happy.

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Richard CardonnaRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 7, 2013 at 3:33:14 pm

Maybe if we could prepay for the year it might workout specially for those who upgrade everyear. This would mean no needfor internet connection ( at least once a year) And then maybe have a tear program for those that only need certain program.

Maybe having the option at the end of the year to buy the permanece of the pre upgated version for a better price.
Just another idea.

Just an Idea

Richard


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Aindreas GallagherRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 7, 2013 at 7:16:46 pm

[Richard Cardonna] "Maybe if we could prepay for the year it might workout specially for those who upgrade everyear. "

that makes a fair ton of sense - if they are utterly determined to go software as service - bulk forward payment kind of gets to the nub of, and answers, a freelance editor's insecurity - its the equivalent of buying an underground season ticket.
You can just stop thinking about it for a year?

basically i want to know that I have secured operation of the software in a cash payment over a reasonable horizon.
The essential feeling of my entire livelihood suite being dependent on a successful bank call every single month in perpituity would drive me a little mad I think.
Plus I bank with santander - they couldn't butter bread apart from anything else

It would just feel precarious. I don't think I could ever be totally comfortable with it - granted I'm paying more a month for the guardian, Empire, and vanity fair subscriptions on the ipad than I would be here... ahem - but it's a psychological issue as much as anything.

Adobe allowing a one time 12 month pre-purchase of the subscription would lessen the freakout at going to subscription I think - or it goes like maintenance as the other guys have said. that would be dandy too.

Or, you know, they just let me upgrade to Production 7 for the three hundred odd quid as they have been to this point...

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Richard CardonnaRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 7, 2013 at 9:05:54 pm

just imagine you are on the 30th day of the grace period and your clients check is not in and you are working on an urgent project then suddenly a message pops up "your grace period hs expired please contact adobe cloud support concerning your membership"


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walter biscardiRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 8, 2013 at 1:04:54 am

[Richard Cardonna] "Maybe if we could prepay for the year it might workout specially for those who upgrade everyear. This would mean no needfor internet connection ( at least once a year) And then maybe have a tear program for those that only need certain program."

I believe you can pre-pay for the entire year and you get a discount. I think it still needs to check in to the internet, but I thought you could pre-pay a year.

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Tom DaigonRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 2:41:32 am

Well, imagine my surprise today, when I found out some Adobe personnel are not happy with us trying to find out where we stand with perpetual licenses.

The nerve of us as customers wanting to know if we had other choices then cloud rental.

And it seems that maybe the answer we were given yesterday might not be the correct one.

Its a shame that such innocent desire to know where we stand is met with such antipathy. Especially since I have been such a vocal enthusiast volunteering my time to help folks having trouble on the forums and beta testing the software.

I am shocked and disappointed that the need to know seems to present such a threat.

Ive stated my piece and will not pursue this anymore. I also will curtail volunteering to help folks in the Adobe forums for the time being.

I suggest if you have concerns, you express them. Remember, Adobe listens.

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Ryan HolmesRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 2:53:06 am

[Tom Daigon] "I also will curtail volunteering to help folks in the Adobe forums for the time being."

I understand your frustration but don't take your beef with Adobe (the company) out on the users of the software. You're a valuable member to this area on the Cow and I think it's a misstep to avoid the users of the software in hopes of making a point to the company producing the software.

Now if you stop using the software all together....well that'd be a different story... :-)

Just my $.02

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Tom DaigonRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 2:56:37 am

I WILL continue to help on the Cow Forums. I just will curtail that help on the Adobe Forums. At this point I think I am a persona non grata in that neck of the woods.

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Petros KolyvasRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 2:57:24 am

Sad to hear that Tom, but I'm sure there are plenty of users who are still using their perpetual licenses (rarer as they may become) who could still benefit from your experience and skill.

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Tom DaigonRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 3:01:21 am

Like I said, Petros, I will continue to help folks here at the Cow Premiere and After Effects forums. Just not on the Adobe versions of those forums.

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Petros KolyvasRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 4:06:29 am

Got it! :) Just wanted to make sure you knew how grateful we all are for your contributions here.

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Todd KoprivaRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 11:12:56 pm

> Well, imagine my surprise today, when I found out some Adobe personnel are not happy with us trying to find out where we stand with perpetual licenses.


Will you elaborate on what happened so that we can help to sort things out?

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Tom DaigonRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 11:30:29 pm

Todd, as miffed as I may seem in this post, I still have the highest respect for Adobe and its personnel. I dont want to make things any worse then they are now. I just had an encounter here in Vegas where it was clear that folks were not happy with my attempts to find out about the existence of perpetual licenses for CS Next. And also didnt like that I started this thread.

Since discretion is the better part of valor, I will leave it at that. I dont want this to be anything more than a group of concerned customers wanting some information on the software they love using.

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Todd KoprivaRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 11:34:24 pm

Understood. As far as you starting this thread: It's good to ask the questions. Really.

Unfortunately, we (folks like me that build and test the software) don't have all of the answers about hings like pricing and such. We're waiting to learn some things, too.

When we do learn those things, we'll share them. And if they're not clear, we'll clarify them.

Sorry that things seem to have gotten off the rails for you, whatever occurred.

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Tom DaigonRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 11:44:10 pm

I really do appreciate you contacting me.

Me and the rest of the folks that are hopeful that perpetual licenses will be available in the future now realize that Adobe is not ready to share that info yet.We certainly do hope we have that option in the future.

And ending on a positive note. Adobes presence at NAB this year was nothing less than spectacular. I heard several LA editors decide to start learning PrP when they saw the CS Next version. And dont even get me started about the AE/C4D relationship. :D

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Kevin MonahanRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 11:42:47 pm

Hi Tom,
On behalf of Adobe, I want to say sorry for not giving you and others in the community the information you desire regarding how future versions of our software will be priced. I can understand how vital that might be for your business. I also am sorry for the negative experience you had.

Unfortunately, those of us from Adobe working on the forums and in the social space do not have the final word on how future pricing might work. Until we ship the software, that information is not yet known, even by those of us that support users on the forums.

Again, apologies to you and the community. We will all know how things will work once we ship.

Thanks,
Kevin

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Tom DaigonRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 11:48:46 pm

Thanks Kevin. I look forward to getting that info when it becomes available.

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Jon HisemanRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 7, 2013 at 8:07:31 pm

I'm a subscriber to Adobe Cloud and loving it - BUT I'm faced with a dilemma. I'm always having to go back and open projects from several years before - I know thats been an issue for Walter. When Adobe has upgraded PPro and AE several times will they still open projects 5 years+ old? What do I do if they don't. Do I have to enjoy 7 till it becomes 8 and then buy 7 for archive, enjoy 8 and then buy it as the news for 9 breaks?
This is creative work we're talking. How does Adobe see this problem?

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Tom DaigonRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 7, 2013 at 8:10:49 pm

Jon, Im pretty sure that I heard Adobe state that Cloud owners would have access to older versions. That needs to be confirmed by them however.

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Ryan HolmesRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 7, 2013 at 8:16:12 pm

[Jon Hiseman] "When Adobe has upgraded PPro and AE several times will they still open projects 5 years+ old? What do I do if they don't. "

This is a valid question. I see two possible solutions currently:
(1) Adobe maintains downloads of older versions of its software on the Creative Cloud site for X years (maybe 5 or 10 years?). Then a user who is a Cloud member need only download and install whichever version they need - CS6, CS7, CS8, CS9, etc. This would be helpful for both users who need to open up old projects, or users who just aren't on the latest and greatest hardware and therefore can't run the latest version of CS.

(2) We, as users, shift our workflow. So when you finish a project you export out an EDL, XML, or AAF file for future use. If the project needs to be resurrected you load in one of the above file formats, instead of launching a PPRo project file. I would actually recommend this workflow to anyone because there's no guarantee you'll even be running Adobe software 5 years from now. I learned this the hard way with FCP. All my old projects are FCP format. When FCP X came out and I decided we weren't moving over, I launched all my old projects and exported out XML versions to load into any NLE I decided to move to. This is now standard practice for us.

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walter biscardiRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 3:04:07 am

[Jon Hiseman] "I'm a subscriber to Adobe Cloud and loving it - BUT I'm faced with a dilemma. I'm always having to go back and open projects from several years before - I know thats been an issue for Walter."

That's not been an issue for us with Premiere Pro as we're new to the app, I think we had a weird quirk at one point, but Adobe helped us out. I had a few issues with some REALLY old After Effects projects I was simply going to open for demonstration purposes.

FYI, from the show floor Day Two, seems to be a lot of love for the Cloud concept. Had a slew of folks visiting me in the Small Tree Booth chatting both shared storage and Premiere Pro. Most folks had the same experience as me. Trepidation at first, but fears allayed as systems were moved to the "cloud" concept of the apps. Both individuals and larger facilities.

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Tom DaigonRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 3:22:58 am

[walter biscardi] " seems to be a lot of love for the Cloud
concept"


W.C Fields - " A sucker is born every minute". :D

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Walter SoykaRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 1:18:44 pm

[walter biscardi] "Most folks had the same experience as me. Trepidation at first, but fears allayed as systems were moved to the "cloud" concept of the apps. Both individuals and larger facilities."

Makes sense.

I do understand the concerns that some people have about not "owning" the software that they depend upon -- and I've also written about the maintenance licensing model which I generally prefer -- but on the other hand, I don't see software-as-a-service as the existential threat that some here do.

Speaking for myself, it's simply not realistic for us to skip an upgrade. The new features are generally really useful, and we need to maintain compatibility with others, both in terms of project files and workflow. As an example, I couldn't imagine using CS5 as my daily driver today.

Once you're committed to maintaining all the upgrades anyway, I think the cloud option doesn't look so bad. I've been using a Cloud license since last year, and the ability to easily bounce my license across multiple machines and platforms as I move about has been pretty nice.

I do still have a few perpetual licenses for Creative Suite. I'm waiting to see what my options are when Adobe announces availability and pricing, and I'll decide what to do with them then.

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walter biscardiRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 2:50:35 pm

[Walter Soyka] "Once you're committed to maintaining all the upgrades anyway, I think the cloud option doesn't look so bad. I've been using a Cloud license since last year, and the ability to easily bounce my license across multiple machines and platforms as I move about has been pretty nice. "

The bouncing between systems is pretty sweet.

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Petros KolyvasRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 3:34:13 pm

But that's what I don't understand.

Volume licenses have always been platform agnostic and each seat comes with the same 1 desktop/1 laptop ability. My seats, which cost the same (or less) than the single-seat non-business versions, are both Mac and PC capable - I can download the apps for either or; an HP workstation in the office a Mac laptop on the road. The limitation was non-existent for us. If we wanted to bounce around, the worst case was that a copy gets deactivated on one machine and activated or installed on another (really no different than the cloud.)

Again, I really have no horse in this race - but there's a great marketing misrepresentation of how "difficult" perpetual licenses were. I'm open to new options, I'm even open to paying more if I see it add value for my business.

On the other hand, I've rarely taken a companies claims to be canon and in this case I continue to wonder why there's so much defence of the cloud. It's not a bad option if it remains an option.

Is the sky falling; absolutely not. It didn't fall when FCP Legacy was dropped, in fact moving to CS5.5 and then to CS6 has been great. Customers are happier because we can respond so much more quickly to their demands and projects get moved through editorial so much more easily.

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Walter SoykaRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 12:59:09 pm

[Jon Hiseman] "I'm a subscriber to Adobe Cloud and loving it - BUT I'm faced with a dilemma. I'm always having to go back and open projects from several years before - I know thats been an issue for Walter. When Adobe has upgraded PPro and AE several times will they still open projects 5 years+ old? What do I do if they don't. Do I have to enjoy 7 till it becomes 8 and then buy 7 for archive, enjoy 8 and then buy it as the news for 9 breaks? This is creative work we're talking. How does Adobe see this problem?"

This concern came up very early in the process, and Adobe addressed it pretty quickly. You will still be able to use prior versions.

See the Creative Cloud FAQ [link] for a more detailed answer:

I am a Creative Cloud member using the CS6 applications included in my membership. Will I lose access to CS6 when the next full version of CS becomes available in Creative Cloud?

No, if you have downloaded and installed the CS6 versions of the applications, you will continue to have access to them without interruption as long as your membership remains active. When the next full version of CS becomes available, you will have up to a year to download and install them, and they will run on your computer along with CS6 versions.


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Jon HisemanRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 3:00:54 pm

No, if you have downloaded and installed the CS6 versions of the applications, you will continue to have access to them without interruption as long as your membership remains active. When the next full version of CS becomes available, you will have up to a year to download and install them, and they will run on your computer along with CS6 versions.

That does sound OK, but what about past installers, if I have to reinstall all my apps (which historically I have always had to do at least every couple of years.) We will need the installers for years of legacy versions available as time passes.

I used to be Jon Hiseman but I'm feeling better now.


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Walter SoykaRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 3:08:57 pm

[Jon Hiseman] "That does sound OK, but what about past installers, if I have to reinstall all my apps (which historically I have always had to do at least every couple of years.) We will need the installers for years of legacy versions available as time passes."

My reading of the above is that legacy installers will be available for download for a year after the new versions are out. I'd suggest keeping your own backup copies of the installers thereafter.

Walter Soyka
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Jon HisemanRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 4:42:31 pm

No, if you have downloaded and installed the CS6 versions of the applications, you will continue to have access to them without interruption as long as your membership remains active. When the next full version of CS becomes available, you will have up to a year to download and install them, and they will run on your computer along with CS6 versions.

OK - so I will upgrade to CS7 when it becomes available and want to download the CS6 installers to archive them for re-install at a later date or when I re-install everything on a new drive. Where are they on the Adobe site? The cloud does not put installers on my drives. I just get app folders. Am I doing something wrong? Can the trial installers be activated by the cloud? I get the impression that the Master suite trial installer does not include everything. Are the individual App folders, installed by the cloud, actually installers that will put all the bits where necessary if you copy them to another drive and boot the app? I for one would like some clear answers. Just had the director of a BBC documentary started in 2005 wanting access to the 3 different FCP edits. No problem - I have the install discs.

I used to be Jon Hiseman but I'm feeling better now.


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Tom DaigonRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 8, 2013 at 2:48:52 pm

I am heading out to NAB shortlyand intended to hang out at the Adobe booth. I hope to find out If we still have the option to get perpetual licenses. I will let you folks know as soon as I do.Lets all cross our fingers :D

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Richard CardonnaRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 10, 2013 at 5:16:04 pm

Well? here paciently waiting.


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Tom DaigonRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 1:54:59 pm

Adobe Cloud enthusiasts.Consider this.

Now- $29.95 monthly Introductory price
Soon- $59.95. Standard price
Future-$69.95? 89.95?

Once you buy in you have no choice but continue.If you stop your software is deactivated.

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David LawrenceRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 4:41:09 pm

[Tom Daigon] "Once you buy in you have no choice but continue. If you stop your software is deactivated."

Which means you will not be able to open your files. Thanks, but no thanks.

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Tom DaigonRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 11, 2013 at 4:44:59 pm

Exactly Dave. That a problem I have with it as well.

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walter biscardiRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 13, 2013 at 12:09:10 am

[David Lawrence] "Which means you will not be able to open your files. Thanks, but no thanks."

So then your plan is to keep CS6 running forever and just never upgrade your computer beyond what you have now?

Software delivery via Cloud or direct download is moving forward very quickly. It's not like Adobe is the ONLY company doing this. It's becoming the standard for software delivery and within the next several years, it'll probably be the only way to get your software. So if you hate this concept, well you're gonna be in a heap of trouble in the next few years.

I guess that's the problem I have with this entire thread. Software delivery is evolving, boxes and "ownership" of something tangible is going away. Apple only delivers their creative software via download. Autodesk delivers Smoke 2013 via download and they have had a licensing model for years. Davinci Resolve delivers via download. If you're this upset about the "Cloud delivery" of Adobe products then move on to something else because it's not going away, so either evolve with the product line, or go find something that still delivers in boxes. Avid might be the only one left.

As for the monthly subscription, you better believe everyone else is looking at Adobe's model right now and trying to figure out how to make it work for their own software, especially software that costs in the same range or more. I expect by 2014 just about all of the major players will have some sort of a Cloud Subscription model in place. Adobe is just leading the way on that among the major manufacturers.

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David LawrenceRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 13, 2013 at 1:58:36 am

[walter biscardi] "So then your plan is to keep CS6 running forever and just never upgrade your computer beyond what you have now? "

No, but I should have the option of freezing an old machine and have it still work with the software I've already purchased.

[walter biscardi] "Software delivery is evolving, boxes and "ownership" of something tangible is going away. Apple only delivers their creative software via download. Autodesk delivers Smoke 2013 via download and they have had a licensing model for years. Davinci Resolve delivers via download. If you're this upset about the "Cloud delivery" of Adobe products then move on to something else because it's not going away, so either evolve with the product line, or go find something that still delivers in boxes. Avid might be the only one left."

It's not about physical boxes. What's important is when you currently buy software from Apple, Autodesk, Blackmagic, and yes, even Adobe, it keeps working when you're done paying for it.

The language in this thread is a bit confusing. We're discussing two separate concepts that are getting mixed together.

1) Electronic delivery vs physical delivery

2) Software ownership vs software rental

I have no problem with electronic delivery. I prefer it. It's how I upgraded to CS6 from CS5.5

I have zero interest in software rental. None. There's only downside in my situation from my POV.

It has nothing to do with cost. It has everything to do with who controls access to the tools my business depends on. And it has everything to do with who controls access to the documents I own that I created with those tools. I'm not willing to give away that control. No way.

Here's a a thought experiment for you. What if FCP Legacy was a subscription service? What if when Apple EOL'd it in 2011, they decided to flip a switch and turn it off? Or what if they gave a year and then switched it off? How would that work out for everyone? You can laugh and say they'd never do such a thing but with a subscription service model, nothing prevents that exact scenario from happening. The only thing we're left with is trust that the software vendor won't jack up prices or cut us off from our documents (either accidentally or intentionally). I think we've all learned hard lessons over the years about software vendors and trust. Thanks but no thanks. I prefer "Trust, but verify."

[walter biscardi] "As for the monthly subscription, you better believe everyone else is looking at Adobe's model right now and trying to figure out how to make it work for their own software, especially software that costs in the same range or more. I expect by 2014 just about all of the major players will have some sort of a Cloud Subscription model in place. Adobe is just leading the way on that among the major manufacturers."

Perhaps, but I predict a huge backlash for software companies that try to force a rental model without providing any options for perpetual licensing. Case in point, Microsoft, who've already had to backtrack on licensing terms for Office 2013/365 because people hated it.

Software subscriptions make sense for a lot of situations. But there are also plenty of situations where they are completely inappropriate. As long as we all have a choice, everyone wins.

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Tom DaigonRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 13, 2013 at 2:04:45 am

Well said, David. My thoughts exactly.

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Tom DaigonRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 13, 2013 at 2:50:07 am

David, just a quick aside. It must have been quite an experience working at Lucasfilm when you did.

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David LawrenceRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 14, 2013 at 7:23:45 am

[Tom Daigon] "David, just a quick aside. It must have been quite an experience working at Lucasfilm when you did."

It's not often you get told your job is "to invent the future". For me, even crazier was being fresh out college and in the space of a week going from slinging lattes at a local cafe to sitting in a Cupertino board room kicking ideas around with Douglas Engelbart.

My colleagues and I used to joke about it being the "golden age" of multimedia, but looking back, there was a lot of truth to that sentiment. It was an amazing time when anything seemed possible.

BTW, when I started, my project was a special research project at Lucasfilm Games. There were under 20 employees in the entire games group. When we went from research into production, Games Division was spun into two new groups - Lucasfilm Learning (for educational products, like my project) and LucasArts (for games). When I went to the 25-year anniversary party for Games Group at their new home in the Letterman Digital Arts Center in the SF Presidio, the group had grown from under 20 to over 400 employees.

A couple weeks ago, Lucasfilm's new owner, The Walt Disney Company, shut LucasArts; just 154 days after acquiring it.

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Ryan HolmesRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 13, 2013 at 3:47:42 am

[David Lawrence] "The language in this thread is a bit confusing. We're discussing two separate concepts that are getting mixed together.

1) Electronic delivery vs physical delivery

2) Software ownership vs software rental"


This is exactly right. I've conflated the two incorrectly in my speech as well. Thank you for the clarification.

[walter biscardi] "Apple only delivers their creative software via download. Autodesk delivers Smoke 2013 via download and they have had a licensing model for years. Davinci Resolve delivers via download."

@Walter I don't think anybody in this thread is upset with digital delivery of software (i.e. boxes vs download). I know I'm certainly not. There really isn't any software that I purchase now that I don't download off the intertubes (FCPX, Adobe, Resolve, Smoke, etc.). I'm not worried about digital delivery. I think people in this thread are apprehensive about how they come to own or lease their software. Much like a car, some love leasing, others prefer to own long term.

In all the examples you sight - FCPX, Resolve, Smoke - all of those are purchased perpetual licenses delivered via download. If you don't want to upgrade to Smoke 2013, no problem. Stay on 2012 as long as it runs for you (1, 2, 3, or more years). Make a backup of the .dmg file and you can re-install it as long as the system will run it. If you don't want to upgrade to Resolve 10, no problem. Stay on 9 as long as it runs on your system. You own it.

I like the Cloud as an option, just not as the only option. I am one who tends to upgrade as they come out with new releases, but I realize that that model doesn't work for everybody. Some people upgrade every other version or every third version. I tend to want the new features but I realize there's a good portion of the market that either doesn't need it, can't afford it, or doesn't have the system to take advantage of it so there isn't much point for them.

[David Lawrence] "Here's a a thought experiment for you. What if FCP Legacy was a subscription service? What if when Apple EOL'd it in 2011, they decided to flip a switch and turn it off?

I think this is an interesting hypothetical. I can only imagine how much worse the backlash would've been had Apple de-activated FCP1-7 on June 21, 2011.

[David Lawrence] "Software subscriptions make sense for a lot of situations. But there are also plenty of situations where they are completely inappropriate. As long as we all have a choice, everyone wins."

+1 to this. More options = more ways to saturate the market with your product. In software licensing more flexibility is a win, in my opinion. I'm sure we'll know in another month or two what Adobe will do. There seems to be too much FUD going around right now about Adobe, the Cloud, and CS. They have a killer product in CSNext and I'm excited to get my hands on it somehow in the near future. I'm glad to see that on the software feature side, Adobe has listened seemingly very, very well to its customer base. They appear to have a solid feature set headed our way.

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Tom DaigonRe: Cloud drawbacks as I see them.
by on Apr 13, 2013 at 1:58:47 pm

David Lawrence-
Software subscriptions make sense for a lot of situations. But there are also plenty of situations where they are completely inappropriate. As long as we all have a choice, everyone wins.

Ryan Holmes-
I like the Cloud as an option, just not as the only option. I am one who tends to upgrade as they come out with new releases, but I realize that that model doesn't work for everybody. Some people upgrade every other version or every third version. I tend to want the new features but I realize there's a good portion of the market that either doesn't need it, can't afford it, or doesn't have the system to take advantage of it so there isn't much point for them.


I think you guys have hit upon the essence of how many of us feel. Choice is important. I cant really understand the hostility expressed by naysayers and fan boys when folks express the desire for choice on how we purchase Adobe software. Regardless I am proud that folks have stepped forward to let Adobe know what they want before decisions have been made and the products released.

I have always appreciated how well they listen to us as editors. Now we will see how well they listen to us as customers.

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