| Final Cut Who?
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ha.. I've been using Premiere Pro CS6 on several projects this week. I finally launched in hands on and bit the learning curve bullet. I have to say I am presently surprised by it and this week worsking in FCP7.. I have to say.. I want to go back to Premiere. I'm not as fast in Premiere yet but I like a lot of what it does. And I like the continuity that it has with it's interface being similar to AE. PLus.. I dont' know if it's because I loaded CS6 in.. but final cut pro has been acting strange lately.. layered video and graphic.. especially wiht alpha channels, ten to bug out the preview where you cant even see text correctly until you render it out. That has been frustrating and probably the final strw that will make me switch for good.
............ anyone else feeling the same way? Brian
MotionFoundry, Inc. Video Post
Clients: GM, AOL, Kohl's, 3 Doors Down, IKEA, Kelloggs, Toyota, Thomas Nelson, NASCAR Affiliates
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Your fcp is acting strangly because its jeleous
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• | | | |  | Re: Final Cut Who?
by Brian Cooney on Aug 2, 2012 at 4:11:31 pm |
haha. I think you are right... a slooooooow death.
MotionFoundry, Inc. Video Post
Clients: GM, AOL, Kohl's, 3 Doors Down, IKEA, Kelloggs, Toyota, Thomas Nelson, NASCAR Affiliates
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• | | | |  | Re: Final Cut Who?
by Ryan Holmes on Aug 2, 2012 at 4:07:35 pm |
Similar experience here. My team migrated last fall after the FCPX launch. But it hasn't been until CS6 that I have been able to move my entire workflow (ingest, edit, transcode, deliver) over to Adobe entirely. I still kept hanging on to some aspect of FCS3 - mainly Compressor. But the speed of PPro and the Mercury Playback Engine has been so far superior to FCP7 that it just feels slow when I have to go back there for an old project.
I think CS6 made some great strides forward, but there's still plenty of work to be done (and I think Adobe is aware of that). Especially if they truly want to make PPro the Photoshop of the NLE world.
Ryan Holmes
http://www.ryanholmes.me
vimeo.com/ryanholmes
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• | | | |  | Re: Final Cut Who?
by Chris Borjis on Aug 2, 2012 at 4:26:20 pm |
CS6 is everything I wanted in a "could have been" Final Cut Pro 8.
I've been using it since it came out for all new projects forward.
So much time saved not ever having to transcode.
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• | | | | | Re: Final Cut Who?
by Brian Cooney on Aug 2, 2012 at 6:30:50 pm |
do you ever find any issues at all with multiple codecs within a single timeline? h.264 is a delivery format... but I was wondering how Premiere might handle it.. especially if combined with XDCAM and/or prores, etc..
MotionFoundry, Inc. Video Post
Clients: GM, AOL, Kohl's, 3 Doors Down, IKEA, Kelloggs, Toyota, Thomas Nelson, NASCAR Affiliates
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• | | | | | Re: Final Cut Who?
by Brian Cooney on Aug 2, 2012 at 5:16:09 pm |
YEs. And it looks like Adobe wants to hold our hand in this and walk with us.. That makes you feel confident about investing into the software. I have so many FCP pluggins that I will no longer be able to use, re-purchasing plugins was a factor for me but the only option there was to hang on to FCP7 which doesn't seem forward moving. I agree... I totally noticed the difference coming back to FCP7 this week. It was clunkier, PPro just felt smooth.. I wish I could discover some quicker workflow functions though.. for exmple.. I'm so used to being able to copy and paste transitions in within the FCP7 timeline and also copy, paste, and remove attributes.. Not as quick and easy in PPRo.
MotionFoundry, Inc. Video Post
Clients: GM, AOL, Kohl's, 3 Doors Down, IKEA, Kelloggs, Toyota, Thomas Nelson, NASCAR Affiliates
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• | | | | | Re: Final Cut Who?
by Ryan Holmes on Aug 2, 2012 at 6:26:11 pm |
[Brian Cooney] "And it looks like Adobe wants to hold our hand in this and walk with us.. That makes you feel confident about investing into the software."
I would be careful about this. Putting your eggs into any 1 companies basket is a dangerous strategy. Ex-FCPers (of which I am one) got caught with there pants down thinking Apple would always deliver what they wanted. When Apple didn't deliver the product many of us hoped for we got mad and some left. Hopefully June 2011 helped everybody realize the danger of expecting one company to deliver a complete end-to-end solution.
Remember Adobe didn't even make it's software available on the Mac platform between 2003-2007 (CS3 returned to OSX in July 2007). They pulled completely out of the Mac environment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premiere_Pro). So while I'm optimistic about Adobe's direction, I'm also cautious. Learning other software (Smoke, Avid, FCPX?) in order to minimize my need to trust one company to always deliver the next latest and greatest NLE. Know all your tools and what one company does won't impact you as hard if they decide to take away or change that tool.
Ryan Holmes
http://www.ryanholmes.me
vimeo.com/ryanholmes
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• | | | | | Re: Final Cut Who?
by Brian Cooney on Aug 2, 2012 at 6:32:44 pm |
excellent point.
MotionFoundry, Inc. Video Post
Clients: GM, AOL, Kohl's, 3 Doors Down, IKEA, Kelloggs, Toyota, Thomas Nelson, NASCAR Affiliates
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[Ryan Holmes] "[Brian Cooney] "And it looks like Adobe wants to hold our hand in this and walk with us.. That makes you feel confident about investing into the software."
I would be careful about this."
We do want to walk with you, but I agree a certain amount of skepticism is healthy too.
[Ryan Holmes] "Remember Adobe didn't even make it's software available on the Mac platform between 2003-2007 (CS3 returned to OSX in July 2007)."
This is true. The reason for this is that we re-architected the application (re-wrote it) which became Premiere *Pro* as opposed to just Premiere *no Pro*. At the time, the overwhelming majority of our business was on PC and FCP was getting stronger, so we opted to go PC only for three versions (1.0, 1.5, 2.0). By the time CS3 came out, our customers had spoken loud and clear that they wanted Premiere Pro cross platform - so we did it.
Dennis
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• | | | | | Re: Final Cut Who?
by Ryan Holmes on Aug 3, 2012 at 1:33:38 pm |
[Dennis Radeke] "At the time, the overwhelming majority of our business was on PC and FCP was getting stronger, so we opted to go PC only for three versions (1.0, 1.5, 2.0)."
This underscores my point. There's no guarantee that this won't happen again. If Avid or Smoke or FCPX or eats into your Mac customer base and you once again decide it's not worth it to be here you'll leave. It's not personal. It's just business. You go where the money is. Currently it's a good business decision to be on the Apple platform. That may not be the case in 2, or 5, or 10 years. Which is why it's important for editors, vfx specialists, audio engineers to not be tied to one software that they live and die by. And I'm speaking as heavy user of CS6. However, it's not the only NLE I use. I don't want to get caught in a corner again like I did with FCP7.
And it may not even be that you leave the Mac platform. FCPX didn't change platforms it just flat out didn't deliver the features many editors were asking for. If CS7 or CS8 or CS9 fails to deliver then editors will indeed migrate. So it's not necessarily the case that Adobe will restrict the platform, it may just be a poor release or a series of underwhelming releases (similar to what Avid experienced in the early-to-mid 2000's).
For editors we've never had more choices in NLE's than we do now. And most of them work cross-platform. I'm excited to see how much Adobe has listened to it's users and how active y'all are on these forums. The CS6 release does indeed show that Adobe listened to what users wanted. I hope CS6.5 and CS7 continue that open listening trend. And please don't read my above comments as strictly negative. I just want people to have their eyes open when doing this business. Adobe is a business. And the management will make choices for future products with regard to where they see the market moving - be it Mac, Windows, Linux, iPad, etc.
Ryan Holmes
http://www.ryanholmes.me
vimeo.com/ryanholmes
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Hey Ryan,
Like I said, I agree.
I don't feel that Adobe will leave the Mac platform for a number of good reasons, but I respect your opinion and your reasoning.
The underlying point though is that Adobe is listening and caring and delivering right now and that's what everybody should be concerned about today. We will continue to listen to our existing users and those specifically of our competition to make Premiere Pro the Photoshop of Video. ;-)
Dennis - Adobe guy.
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• | | | | | Re: Final Cut Who?
by Brian Cooney on Aug 3, 2012 at 2:25:12 pm |
Ryan, will Adobe be beefing up PPro with more stock pluggins in the future. I have a ton of 3rd party FCP plugins I can't use anymore..soem of them fo work with AE though. But one of the weaknesses I thought PPro had was is't lack of stock filters. FCP had broader range of stylistic effects and transitions. I understand the Adobe mindset a little better now... that it is, you do your cutting in PPro and your finishing in AE. But I think us FCP users are really accustomed to a bit more under the hood in the area of onboard fx and transitions, etc.
MotionFoundry, Inc. Video Post
Clients: GM, AOL, Kohl's, 3 Doors Down, IKEA, Kelloggs, Toyota, Thomas Nelson, NASCAR Affiliates
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Brian - give me a list of what is important to you from a plugin stand point.
Dennis - Adobe
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• | | | | | Re: Final Cut Who?
by Brian Cooney on Aug 3, 2012 at 2:36:37 pm |
Transitions like; cross zoom, certain dissolves; fade in fade out, dip to color.. Other plugins.. Smooth Cam, image control like HSV adjust, mattes, vignette, blink, title 3D, sharpen, threshold, glow effects like bloom, overdrive, etc.... borders, stylistic fx like bad TV, old film, - a lot of these I've mostly used third party plugins for but I know FCP has them instock as well. I may have listed some here that PPro already has...but I don't think so, being new I'm still finding my way around.
MotionFoundry, Inc. Video Post
Clients: GM, AOL, Kohl's, 3 Doors Down, IKEA, Kelloggs, Toyota, Thomas Nelson, NASCAR Affiliates
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• | | | |  | Re: Final Cut Who?
by Tim Kolb on Aug 17, 2012 at 2:09:41 am |
Keep in ind that PPro runs any plugin that AE does with the exception of 3D (3 axis) effects.
With a few possible exceptions, Premiere Pro may be the NLE with the most plugins available when you consider the After Effects portfolio of available effects...
TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,
Adobe Certified Instructor
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• | | | | | Re: Final Cut Who?
by Brian Cooney on Aug 17, 2012 at 11:25:06 am |
I'm not sure I agree with that. I've been on a PPro plugin crusade. I guess if you bring a sequence into AE from PPro you have access to the plugins within AE so that's cool. For instance, a plugin like Keylight doesn't work in PPRo.. you have to import your sequence into AE, key it there (if you want to use keylight - who dosn't?) , save it, then utilize the results within PPro. But as far as plugins like Keylight or Nattrress or New Blue, or the Noise Industries catalog ...etc.. they work in FCP and AE but not PPro. So most of the pluggins I own within FCP, some of which are also AE compatible, do not function within PPro. :-)
MotionFoundry, Inc. Video Post
Clients: GM, AOL, Kohl's, 3 Doors Down, IKEA, Kelloggs, Toyota, Thomas Nelson, NASCAR Affiliates
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• | | | | | Re: Final Cut Who?
by Ryan Holmes on Aug 3, 2012 at 4:24:37 pm |
[Dennis Radeke] "The underlying point though is that Adobe is listening and caring and delivering right now "
Agreed. Adobe should be applauded for this. Avid doesn't listen this well (maybe a bit better recently). Apple does listen this well. Autodesk doesn't listen this well (though they are getting better as well). Adobe is easily leading the curve with listening to what we want right now today.
[Dennis Radeke] "We will continue to listen to our existing users and those specifically of our competition to make Premiere Pro the Photoshop of Video."
I hope you can make PPro the Photoshop of video. To make it the hub of digital creation - excellent! Which is why I've long wondered when Adobe will (1) make it's own XML language. Instead of having to export out the whole project as XML, how about just 1 sequence or a small group of sequences. When I move to Resolve for color grading I don't need all 85 sequences. I just need the 1 that is prepped for color. (2) Adobe's own native codec. I love that PPro is the honey badger of NLE's. But when you ingest footage from RED, C300, GoPro, 5DMarkII, and a 7D other programs don't handle all those codecs equally well in one timeline (I'm looking at you DaVinci Resolve). No sweat for CS6, but not everybody is so nimble.
So having the ability to move to 1 standard format is still important, I think. Granted we have DNxHD and ProRes, but there Adobe is stuck relying on outside companies to deliver a solution. If there was an Adobe equivalent that played equally well in PPro, After Effects, and Speedgrade (and the codec would be licensed to any and all third parties - Canon, Arri, RED, Atomos, SoundDevices, Blackmagic, etc for direct capture) that would be a game changer. Especially if when you log and ingest footage through Prelude it would convert to that format from the start. Then you wouldn't have to mix codecs so much in PPro or AE. And you wouldn't have to convert to DPX for speedgrade (unless you wanted to).
Just my $.02. Keep up the good work with Adobe. It is encouraging to see a company listen to its user base.
Ryan Holmes
http://www.ryanholmes.me
vimeo.com/ryanholmes
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• | | | |  | Re: Final Cut Who?
by Alex Udell on Aug 5, 2012 at 4:40:14 pm |
[Ryan Holmes] " Instead of having to export out the whole project as XML, how about just 1 sequence or a small group of sequences. When I move to Resolve for color grading I don't need all 85 sequences. I just need the 1 that is prepped for color."
this one is pretty easy....
Make a new Project and then IMPORT your previous project.
You will be prompted with the option to choose entire project or just select sequences. Choose what you need for grading.
Save this project and use it as the basis of sending your project on to grading....
Alex
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• | | | | | Re: Final Cut Who?
by Ryan Holmes on Aug 5, 2012 at 5:45:33 pm |
Agreed. That is a "workaround" for the limitation that currently exists. If speed is one of my primary concerns (and it is ;-), then the extra steps to export out a XML, create a new project, reimport that file, just to re-export another XML means I'm wasting time.
If you're doing this just once a day, maybe no big deal. But what if it's multiple times in a day? In a week? What if you have to reconform because the edits changed? Well now that time starts to add up. Since we can already export a XML out of PPro why not just enable it to export a single sequence as well? Leave it to the user to decide via a dialog box if they want the whole project (for moving to another NLE) or just a sequence for VFX or color grading.
I'm just looking for the maximum amount of efficiency in my software. I don't like to do things that I think the software/hardware should be able to take care of.
Just my $.02
Ryan Holmes
http://www.ryanholmes.me
vimeo.com/ryanholmes
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• | | | | | Re: Final Cut Who?
by Ryan Holmes on Aug 5, 2012 at 5:49:24 pm |
[Alex Udell] "Make a new Project and then IMPORT your previous project.
"
Sorry, I mistyped above (referencing XML export/import). What you've listed is also still a "workaround." Albeit slightly shorter than what I described above. Still not as fast as I'd like....
Just my $.02
Ryan Holmes
http://www.ryanholmes.me
vimeo.com/ryanholmes
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• | | | | | Re: Final Cut Who?
by Alex Udell on Aug 6, 2012 at 1:21:37 pm |
Oh I agree....
but they way you originally wrote, it sounded like you might not be aware of it.
Alex
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