16:9 ratio exporting out as 16:8.8

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16:9 ratio exporting out as 16:8.8
by Ryan Holmes on Jul 27, 2012 at 4:14:11 pm

My source footage is widescreen DV. (720x480 with a PAR of 1.2121). Output using Media Encoder with the same settings - DV Widscreen. So I expect my resulting Quicktime file to be 854x480 (16:9 ratio). However, the video that Premiere produces is actually 872x480 (a 16:8.8 ratio). Movie Inspector inside of Quicktime:

So has anybody else noticed that when widescreen SD source material and you export out a video with the "Aspect" set to D1/DV NTSC Widescreen 16:9 (1.2121) that the resulting video is actually a 16:8.8 ratio, not 16:9? Or am I crazy...?

Ryan Holmes
http://www.ryanholmes.me
vimeo.com/ryanholmes

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Re: 16:9 ratio exporting out as 16:8.8
by Vince Becquiot on Jul 28, 2012 at 9:10:47 pm

Hi Ryan,

It's a bit complicated to explain in a post, so I'll just post this link.

It explains the issue for PAL, but it's the same for NTSC.

Vince Becquiot

Indigo Live
San Francisco - Bay Area

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Re: 16:9 ratio exporting out as 16:8.8
by Ryan Holmes on Jul 30, 2012 at 1:13:58 pm

Vince thanks for the link....that was a good refresher.

I'm aware of the SD conundrum of Pixel Aspect Ratios (square vs. rectangular pixels, etc.). My hangup is that Adobe is doing it incorrectly. Avid and FCP don't spit out files at a 16:8.8 ratio when the user is asking for a widescreen SD @ 16:9.

I guess I need to complain directly to Adobe....

Ryan Holmes
http://www.ryanholmes.me
vimeo.com/ryanholmes

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Re: 16:9 ratio exporting out as 16:8.8
by Vince Becquiot on Jul 30, 2012 at 4:52:23 pm

Hi Ryan,

My pointing to the article was for the fact that the image is indeed wider.

If you export pixel for pixel, 720*1.2121=872. So what you are seeing is correct (square pixels wise).

You you need a 16:9 square pixel export (not possible with a DV export, but possible with H.264, Prores etc.), you should able to export as 854x480 (1.0) and you will have perfect 16:9 frame.

You will however have small black bars on the side which can be cropped in the export window.

Vince Becquiot

Indigo Live
San Francisco - Bay Area

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Re: 16:9 ratio exporting out as 16:8.8
by Ryan Holmes on Jul 30, 2012 at 5:20:54 pm

Agreed. The math works out.

I'm just not sure why other NLE's do it differently (correct?/incorrect?). For example, when you export out a Anamorphic DV NTSC sequence from FCP7 you'll get a 16:9 image. It will use a 1.1862 PAR and leave you with an 854x480 Quicktime movie in your codec of choice.

You're dead on about the "Stretch to Fill" working fine to get rid of any black borders when converting the image to a 16:9 ratio...no problems there. I'm just trying to figure out why each NLE maker seems to approach this a bit differently. In a perfect world 16:9 would always be 16:9! ;-)

Thanks for the tips though. I appreciate it.

Ryan Holmes
http://www.ryanholmes.me
vimeo.com/ryanholmes

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Re: 16:9 ratio exporting out as 16:8.8
by Vince Becquiot on Jul 30, 2012 at 5:28:24 pm

On the FCP side, 1.1862 PAR is one way to get a 16:9 image, but you are not left with square pixels, which to will need if you are going to the web. So in the end you still have to stretch or include black borders.

Vince Becquiot

Indigo Live
San Francisco - Bay Area

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Re: 16:9 ratio exporting out as 16:8.8
by Ryan Holmes on Jul 30, 2012 at 5:54:12 pm

Agreed. The conversion to square pixels from non-square has to happen somewhere.

If only there was an "Easy" button, eh?! ;-)

Ryan Holmes
http://www.ryanholmes.me
vimeo.com/ryanholmes

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