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Shamefully obvious mercury playback enquiry

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Christopher TravisShamefully obvious mercury playback enquiry
by on Apr 10, 2012 at 4:25:26 pm

Hello,

I am an FCP user tentatively looking into switching to PP at the agency where I work.

Can anyone point me in the direction of a good guide to setting up PP to get the best realtime playback? We currently have PP installed on a 12Core Mac Pro with 32Gb of Ram running Lion.

I realise that the pre-installed Radeon GPU is not supported by CS5.5 but can I count on getting better realtime performance using PP on this setup than I get using FCP? If so, are there any setup procedures or gotchas I should look out for that I might miss, not being familiar with PP?

We just tried putting a DPX sequence on the timeline and our playback was terrible. At first I thought this might be a hard disc limitation, but I've seen a video on the Adobe site where we saw a DPX file playing on top of about 12 other HD files. Can anyone suggest what I might be missing here?

Sorry for being such a bumbling simpleton, any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Chris


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Jeff GreenbergRe: Shamefully obvious mercury playback enquiry
by on Apr 10, 2012 at 4:28:23 pm

Try right clicking and setting the Playback quality to less than Full resolution (with DPX, I'd do 1/4 or less if you can.) That plus fast drives (for playback delivery). Keep the Paused Resolution at full.

Best,

Jeff I. Greenberg
Editor/Author/Speaker/Consulting
My NAB seminar schedule, contact info and more


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Christopher TravisRe: Shamefully obvious mercury playback enquiry
by on Apr 10, 2012 at 4:35:45 pm

Thanks Jeff,

I tried this already and even at quarter res the playback is poor. The resolution of the DPX clip is only 1920x1080, it's not 4k or anything. Is it just that the data rate is too high (8Mb per frame)? If so, how would the guy in this demo video slap it so casually on top of 12 other layers?


skip to the 5 minute mark:
http://tv.adobe.com/watch/switching-to-adobe-premiere-pro-cs5/switching-ove...

Is there a secret "Mercury playback" button that I can't see?


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Vince BecquiotRe: Shamefully obvious mercury playback enquiry
by on Apr 10, 2012 at 4:55:51 pm

Hi Christopher,

You will definitely need to look at the supported NVidia cards for the performance you are looking for.

Unfortunately, there aren't many to choose from unless you are willing to do some minor file editing.

And as Jeff mentioned, you'll need a solid RAID array, you didn't mention what you were pulling footage from.

Vince Becquiot

Kaptis Studios
San Francisco - Bay Area


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Tom DaigonRe: Shamefully obvious mercury playback enquiry
by on Apr 10, 2012 at 4:56:05 pm

MPE relies on ram, graphics card, processor and raid array. What kind of raid are you running?

Tom Daigon
Avid DS / PrP / After Effects Editor
http://www.hdshotsandcuts.com
Mac Pro 3,1
8 core
10.6.8
Nvidia Quadro 4000
24 gigs ram
Maxx Digital / Areca 8tb. raid
Kona 3


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Christopher TravisRe: Shamefully obvious mercury playback enquiry
by on Apr 10, 2012 at 4:58:42 pm

Ah ha. This may be the problem. I just checked and the tower is brand new, with only a 1 TB system disc in it. If we but a couple more TB drives in and striped them RAID 0 might we be able to playback DPX files?


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Vince BecquiotRe: Shamefully obvious mercury playback enquiry
by on Apr 10, 2012 at 5:06:15 pm

Yes, 3 drives in RAID 0 should get you there. Make sure you at least get matching 7200 RPM drives.

Vince Becquiot

Kaptis Studios
San Francisco - Bay Area


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Christopher TravisRe: Shamefully obvious mercury playback enquiry
by on Apr 10, 2012 at 6:29:23 pm

Thanks a lot,

As you can tell im a bit wet behind the ears when it comes to PP but I'm excited about working in a world with less rendering, less transcoding and more editing.

Just to confirm, even without a supported GPU, I can still get improved real time playback of different compressed formats AND with more layers and effects compared with FCP legacy right?

Thanks again and expect more simpleminded posts of this nature from me in te near future. Except I'll post them in the basics forum from now on.

Chris


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Vince BecquiotRe: Shamefully obvious mercury playback enquiry
by on Apr 10, 2012 at 6:34:32 pm

It's a hard question to answer. FCP converts most formats to Prpres, unless you are talking about native editing?

I've never had real issues with FCP when it comes to Prores playback.

Vince Becquiot

Kaptis Studios
San Francisco - Bay Area


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Christopher TravisRe: Shamefully obvious mercury playback enquiry
by on Apr 10, 2012 at 6:56:18 pm

Hey vince,

Yes I'm talking about native editing.


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Vince BecquiotRe: Shamefully obvious mercury playback enquiry
by on Apr 10, 2012 at 6:59:16 pm

Oh yes, it will be better.

Vince Becquiot

Kaptis Studios
San Francisco - Bay Area


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Lance BachelderRe: Shamefully obvious mercury playback enquiry
by on Apr 11, 2012 at 12:21:10 am

You really need to invest in an approved nVidia to see the true power of the program - night and day better. Without it you won't see too much difference than FCP7 except that you can mix and match more codecs without rendering.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Irvine, California



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Josh WeissRe: Shamefully obvious mercury playback enquiry
by on Apr 11, 2012 at 9:25:10 pm

I beg to differ, I think you will still see major real time improvements over FCP7. Even if something is given a red bar, that doesn't mean you have to render to playback. On my 12 core mac pro, 64 gb ram, but no nvidia card, I can easily play 4k red one files in a 1920x1080 timeline, with no rendering. I can even add effects like corner pins, and keys and still play in real time. Maybe I'll have to reduce to half res sometimes, but not always. This is from a RAID btw.



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Christopher TravisRe: Shamefully obvious mercury playback enquiry
by on Apr 11, 2012 at 9:50:22 pm

Thanks again you guys,

I'm asking because I've been offered a job as in house editor at an ad agency and it's my intention to oversee a switch to PP over the coming months so I need to get all the info I can before making hardware purchasing decisions. I have a feeling that budget concerns will mean I might have to choose between, upgrading the GPUs in our 3 towers, and finally getting some decent shared storage so I need to toss up the workflow benefits of each. I think if I can still get decent playback improvements without spending 2k on new 3 new GPUs then that money would be better spent on shared storage. But who knows they could just tell me to get both. Then I'll be a happy bunny. Oh yeah, then I need to actually learn how to use PP :s


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Gerry CurtisRe: Shamefully obvious mercury playback enquiry
by on Apr 11, 2012 at 11:54:34 pm

One more thing to consider is your video card-PP works great for me playing native files only when I'm not going out through my Blackmagic Card. People have reported better results using Kona cards.

Makes me wonder about the fact that the Adobe web tutorials never show someone working with a broadcast monitor, hmmm.

Hopefully this will improve with the version 6!

Cheers,

Gerry

http://www.digitalkilnstudios.com
Color Reel


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Vince BecquiotRe: Shamefully obvious mercury playback enquiry
by on Apr 12, 2012 at 12:04:19 am

Gerry,

I've seen issues with both AJA and BM. Right now we are back to DVI on a broadcast monitor, just not worth the headaches. Switching to SDI only for color correction or client monitor.

Vince Becquiot

Kaptis Studios
San Francisco - Bay Area


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Gerry CurtisRe: Shamefully obvious mercury playback enquiry
by on Apr 12, 2012 at 12:20:43 am

Hey Vince,

That's a bummer, I guess the OP has more info to base his decision,

Cheers,

Gerry

http://www.digitalkilnstudios.com
Color Reel


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Tom DaigonRe: Shamefully obvious mercury playback enquiry
by on Apr 12, 2012 at 12:57:57 am

[Vince Becquiot] "I've seen issues with both AJA and BM. Right now we are back to DVI on a broadcast monitor, just not worth the headaches. Switching to SDI only for color correction or client monitor."

With NAB in a few days, theres always the chance of change for the better.

Tom Daigon
Avid DS / PrP / After Effects Editor
http://www.hdshotsandcuts.com
Mac Pro 3,1
8 core
10.6.8
Nvidia Quadro 4000
24 gigs ram
Maxx Digital / Areca 8tb. raid
Kona 3


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Gerry CurtisRe: Shamefully obvious mercury playback enquiry
by on Apr 12, 2012 at 4:36:46 am

Hi Tom.

Sounds like there are some nice changes in store, including better performance with video cards:

http://success.adobe.com/en/na/programs/events/1203_16108_nab.html

Cheers,

Gerry

http://www.digitalkilnstudios.com
Color Reel


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Tom DaigonRe: Shamefully obvious mercury playback enquiry
by on Apr 12, 2012 at 4:40:45 am

Yes, Adobe Transmit has made exporting from 3rd party cards a wonderful thing!

CS6 will surprise and delight everyone here. PrP and AE have worked on the basics and added new tools. I am so excited to see everyones reaction at NAB this year.

http://success.adobe.com/en/na/programs/events/1203_16108_nab.html

Tom Daigon
Avid DS / PrP / After Effects Editor
http://www.hdshotsandcuts.com
Mac Pro 3,1
8 core
10.6.8
Nvidia Quadro 4000
24 gigs ram
Maxx Digital / Areca 8tb. raid
Kona 3


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Christopher TravisRe: Shamefully obvious mercury playback enquiry
by on Apr 12, 2012 at 5:39:16 am

Oh man,

Can't wait to get stuck in to those CS6 videos this afternoon.
You know, when FCPX first came along I was heart broken. FCP has been like a comfy pair of slippers to me for the last 5 years or so and the thought of having to leave it behind was terrible. But now I see that there are all these wicked sports shoes and smart dress shoes out there that might hurt a little at first, but once I wear them in I'll be able to run faster and look better and get more chicks in them.


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Tom DaigonRe: Shamefully obvious mercury playback enquiry
by on Apr 12, 2012 at 5:40:39 am

Im pretty sho you will enjoy CS6. :D

Tom Daigon
PrP / After Effects Editor
http://www.hdshotsandcuts.com
Mac Pro 3,1
8 core
10.6.8
Nvidia Quadro 4000
24 gigs ram
Maxx Digital / Areca 8tb. raid
Kona 3


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Christopher TravisRe: Shamefully obvious mercury playback enquiry
by on Apr 12, 2012 at 10:58:41 am

Looking at the buzz around CS6 I see there is support for a wider array of, and I saw somewhere that some Radeon cards will now enable accelerated performance (excuse my ham-fisted deployment of jargon in that sentence). Can anyone point me to a comprehensive list of GPUs that Premier Pro will be able to access ? or even better, can anyone tell me if the ATI Radeon 5770 HD 1GB that is in all of my Mac Pros is supported?


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