Using PNG Codec... Settings question.

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Using PNG Codec... Settings question.
by albert trevino on Oct 12, 2011 at 9:17:02 am

I use the PNG Codec in the MOV container as the file format for videos I use for editing in Premiere Pro. I do this using MPEG StreamClip. The question I have is in the options for the codec is says "filter:" and the drop down as a list of choices: Best, None, Sub, Up, Average, Paeth, Adaptive. What do those setting effect? I did a quick test using "Best" and the file size was smaller than using "None"

Does anyone know what those settings do? and how do they effect your video?

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Re: Using PNG Codec... Settings question.
by Angelo Lorenzo on Oct 12, 2011 at 6:56:20 pm

PNG is a discrete frame codec. In other words, each frame is encoded wholly rather than interframe codecs like MPEG that use predictive frames.

PNG has a specification too, the filters are listed here and each explain what they do to the image before compression http://www.w3.org/TR/PNG-Filters.html

- Angelo Lorenzo
- http://FilmsFor.Us Sell your film and connect with your audience

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Re: Using PNG Codec... Settings question.
by Angelo Lorenzo on Oct 12, 2011 at 7:22:44 pm

Also, since "best" isn't defined, I can only assume it picks the best algorithm from those listed to apply to the image. Unless someone else chimes in.

- Angelo Lorenzo
- http://FilmsFor.Us Sell your film and connect with your audience

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Re: Using PNG Codec... Settings question.
by albert trevino on Oct 13, 2011 at 1:11:27 am

I was curious of using SheerVideo instead of PNG. Both are lossless and from testing SheerVideo actually has a smaller file size and is much FASTER to export!

thoughts?

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Re: Using PNG Codec... Settings question.
by Angelo Lorenzo on Oct 13, 2011 at 2:58:48 am

Is there any reason why you need a completely lossless video? Perhaps we can skip all of the speculation and get to the meat of what you may actually need.

I've not used SheerVideo, but it doesn't seem to be a well known intermediate codec like Cineform (SheerVideo being lossless, Cineform and other intermediates like ProRes and DNxHD being slightly lossy).

If the trial works in all of the video programs you use on your system and you like it, go for it as far as internal workflow. I don't know if I'd be so keen in expecting any outside vendors or clients to own this codec though.

You could give Avid's DNxHD codec a look, it's free and more of a standard in the industry (basically Avid's internal codec, counter to Apple's ProRes) http://avid.custkb.com/avid/app/selfservice/search.jsp?DocId=372311

- Angelo Lorenzo
- http://FilmsFor.Us Sell your film and connect with your audience

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Re: Using PNG Codec... Settings question.
by albert trevino on Oct 13, 2011 at 4:39:52 am

ok... so here is basically what I do.

Well, here is my basic work flow for the main part of my work. The source files I use for editing are from DVD content or MOV [DV codec] files directly from record labels. I am a music video remixer/editor for DJ's worldwide. So I use those sources and I IVTC/Deinterlace them when needed in VirtualDub. I export them out of VirtualDub in AVI [Lagarith Lossless Codec]. Sometimes I use I have to convert HD MP4/MOV files down to SD for my projects. In those cases I convert them using MPEG StreamClip to MOV [PNG or SheerVideo]. I need the files to retain as much information as possible when editing, so therefore I chose to use a Lossless Codec with AVI or MOV as an editing file. I export in the files out of Premiere Pro as a Lossless AVI [Lagarith] and use Sorenson Squeeze to do all the file encoding to H.264 MP4 for DJ's to use.

From what I understand... using a Lossy codec, you lose some of the quality. Whether it is luminance, some color, etc.

So I did some testing for quality and size on a file I had to convert to MOV.

I used the following codecs as the final MOV output.
ProRes [Lossy]
PNG [Lossless]
SheerVideo [Lossless]

The ProRes file looked like it was brighter than the original file, and didn't look as crisp.

The other two lossless files look more like the original. The SheerVideo one was SMALLER than the PNG and the ProRes.

So I don't understand the real reason to use a Lossy Codec? What is the point?

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Re: Using PNG Codec... Settings question.
by Angelo Lorenzo on Oct 13, 2011 at 5:57:21 am

What version of Premiere Pro are you using? I feel like you can tackle this with less round trips to other programs.

1. You get a DVD or a MOV(DV) file. Are you ripping the DVD or taking the MPEG-2 file directly off?
2. In either case Premiere Pro (I assume you have CS4 or newer) can do IVTC/Deinterlacing on the original files, reducing the need to transcode them for Virtual Dub.
3. Premiere Pro/Adobe Media Encoder can also scale the output, so again no reason to bring it out to MPEG StreamClip.

Since you're using Sorenson Squeeze (that's my choice too) and you're using Windows since you're also running Virtual Dub, have you looked into a frameserver?

http://www.debugmode.com/frameserver/

This is a free plug-in for Windows. You export from Premiere with this set as your "codec" and it creates an AVI file. Drag this AVI file into Sorenson Squeeze and do your final compression there. The frameserver basically uses this dummy AVI file to hand Sorenson the video directly from Premiere, saving you another render, time, and temporary disk space.

Is there any reason you're using VirtualDub over Premiere for IVTC/Deinterlacing? Unless I'm missing a big piece of your reasoning, I think the frameserver can simplify your workflow greatly.

- Angelo Lorenzo
- http://FilmsFor.Us Sell your film and connect with your audience

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Re: Using PNG Codec... Settings question.
by albert trevino on Oct 14, 2011 at 6:37:15 am

Hi,

I am using CS5.

I am ripping the files directly off of the DVD's into VOB/MPEG2 format.
One of the things I do in VirtualDub as well is cropping the files correctly. It is just easier to work with the AVI/MOV that has been prepped for editing. Plus there will be other projects that will use the same AVI/MOV file too.

I haven't used Premiere Pro to do any of the IVTC/Deinterlacing yet. I could experiment with that to see how well that works.

I could never get frameserving to work...

All my encoding is done on a separate computer on a network using a watched folder.

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