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CS5 - already frustrated - REALLY Adobe?!?!

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eric monroeCS5 - already frustrated - REALLY Adobe?!?!
by on Apr 30, 2010 at 9:38:05 pm

Okay, so here we are on the day of the long awaited ability to edit AVCHD footage natively in a 64-bit environment, and the CS5 trial releases with no option to use AVCHD, DSLR, or RED footage.

SERIOUSLY?!?! Am I missing something here?

That is what EVERY single advertisement/video marketing ploy that they have been pushing for the last 4+ months has been saying about how great P-pro CS5 is, and we cant even try it.....the software will shutdown after 30 days for cryin out loud....what gives?

So basically we are supposed to give them almost 2 grand for software that we have NO CLUE whether or not will be any better than CS4. That's like a movie theater advertising the most incredible 3D experience on the planet, and then offering a free trial day to come check it out, only to give you NO GLASSES to view the amazing difference. AHHHHHHHHH!

comments welcome.


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Vince BecquiotRe: CS5 - already frustrated - REALLY Adobe?!?!
by on Apr 30, 2010 at 9:54:18 pm

Eric,

Calm down. There are restrictions on any trial software. Most do restrict the use of certain formats, and most of these restrictions are put in place by the people licensing those formats.

They should be limited to encoding, I'm not sure if this applies to the timeline itself.

Have you tried creating a custom preset?


Vince Becquiot

Kaptis Studios
San Francisco - Bay Area


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eric monroeRe: CS5 - already frustrated - REALLY Adobe?!?!
by on Apr 30, 2010 at 10:23:59 pm

Hey Vince,


"calm down" hahaha (I didnt sound "that" irrate did I?) :o) Just really dissappointed, that's all.....have been looking forward to this for months, i'm sure along with boatloads of others, only to get a "punch" in the gut. lol

Anyhow, I totally understand "why" they dont allow it. And I agree 100% with you, that we should be able to use it on the timeline and only have the ability to encode videos in those formats disabled. I refuse to drop that kinda dough when I cant even see if my system is able to handle the software, and if it can, will it really benefit greatly from it. Oh well.....just have to sit back and read about the experiences of others over the next few months to see if it is of interest then.

Have a great night.


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Eric AddisonRe: CS5 - already frustrated - REALLY Adobe?!?!
by on Apr 30, 2010 at 10:46:05 pm

Hey Eric,

With some of the MPEG based formats (AVCHD, XDCAM HD,etc.) the reason there is no support in the trial is because Adobe has to pay a licence fee for each copy that that contains MPEG support. If they included it in the trial, it would cost them a fortune. It's rough I know, but I understand why they can't...as for RED, I assume it's the same thing - or something similar.

As for how CS5 handles AVCHD, from my experience so far it's very good. Better then CS4.

---Eric
Owner | 100 ACRE FILMS
http://www.100acrefilms.com


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Bob DixRe: CS5 - already frustrated - REALLY Adobe?!?!
by on May 1, 2010 at 12:11:30 am

Hi Eric,
For what it is worth , I would have upgraded at least 3 times in the past 5 years, but, could not trial what I wanted to.(So Adobe have lost thousands of dollars in sales) In any case the old Premiere Pro is very good ,still,but, the very latest codecs will force me to now change , the computer, the operating system and up grade to CS5 Premeire Pro. I hope to have no problemns?

I can truly understand your frustration with Adobe..

Freelance Imaging & Video
AUSTRALIA


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Lance BachelderRe: CS5 - already frustrated - REALLY Adobe?!?!
by on May 1, 2010 at 12:01:31 pm

I'm with you Eric - just installed the trail and appalled at the lack of presets! The two things I NEED to try BEFORE paying for it are locked out - so Adobe loses another sale. Very short-sited Adobe.

Lance Bachelder
Southern California



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eric monroeRe: CS5 - already frustrated - REALLY Adobe?!?!
by on May 1, 2010 at 2:11:16 pm

I just always wonder, when are these "big companies" gonna get it right?!? It seems as if they do absolutely zero communication with the "everyday people" who use their products.....to find out how they can provide a better end-user experience.

I am gunning for a certain workflow, and I am still unsure if they can provide, so I will not be purchasing now either....I have a feeling there will be alot of lost sales because of this. but what do we know....right....we are just the people. hehehe LOL


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Eric AddisonRe: CS5 - already frustrated - REALLY Adobe?!?!
by on May 1, 2010 at 4:45:28 pm

@ Lance - It's not a matter of Adobe being short-sighted. It's a matter of them not wanting to have to pay the huge license fee to allow MPEG technology to be in the trial version. I know if it were up to them, they would want you to be able to use it, but as they have to pay a license fee for each copy of PPro, they can't afford to just give it away. What Adobe does do is offer a 30 day money back guarantee. If you're not happy, just return it.

Also, you'll notice that both Apple and Avid don't even offer trial versions - so at least Adobe is willing to let you try out most of PPro.

@ Eric -I think Adobe really has done a great job this time around talking to users, and communicating with them about what they will need for CS5 (64bit OS, video cards, etc.). They've got video demos all over the web showing what CS5 can do. Now, if you are referring to the trial not being able to support MPEG based codecs, they do have it stated on the trial download page what the limitations are.

As a long time PPro user, I see this every release...EVERY release. And as much as some of us users have lobbied to have Adobe not issue a trial because users always complain about this, they continue to do it because they want people to have the option to try it. I can understand that, but as we move into a world where most cameras are shooting with some form of MPEG based codec, they finally might need to re-think the whole "trial" version.

Hope that helps!



---Eric
Owner | 100 ACRE FILMS
http://www.100acrefilms.com


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Lance BachelderRe: CS5 - already frustrated - REALLY Adobe?!?!
by on May 1, 2010 at 7:45:25 pm

@Eric - who are you? I was an Adobe beta tester from Premiere Pro 1 through CS3 - Adobe rarely listens to ANY of it's testers - even those of us working in Hollywood on hit TV shows and studio movies. This is why I left the beta program.

All Adobe would have to do post is a simple list stating that the "following features are NOT available in the demo version!" Would have saved some frustration as far as downloading and installing and testing only to find out the key features the are hawking are disabled. I'd still be bummed but I wouldn't have wasted any actual time.

I don't post here just to see my writing on the internet - Eric M. and I feel we have a legitimate gripe and we're entitled to voice our opinions. And YES Avid does have a FULLY FUNCTIONAL demo version available - don't post stuff when you don't have the facts right!

Lance Bachelder
Southern California



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Eric AddisonRe: CS5 - already frustrated - REALLY Adobe?!?!
by on May 2, 2010 at 2:33:07 am

"@Eric - who are you? "

I'm just a guy who edits with PPro...I do run the local Premiere Pro User Group.

I can't say how things used to be with Adobe, but I can say that things seemed to have changed quite bit since then. They are eager to hear what users think, and they do listen.

As for a disclaimer about the trial, it's right there on the bottom of the page where you download the trial...

"*The trial version of Adobe Premiere Pro CS5 does not include some features that depend on software licensed from parties other than Adobe. For example, some codecs for encoding MPEG formats are available only with the full version of this product."

Now, I would agree that this needs to be a little clearer, but it is there. And I agree that Adobe should change the trial version to be complete, or get rid of it.

As for Avid - my bad...I was given bad information. I'm not trying to mislead anyone, or post bad information. I asked someone who gave me obviously the wrong info.

I responded to the posts here to try and help, and to share some information. You're right - you and Eric M. have every right to vent your complaints and gripes. Don't let me stop you. But for the benefit of other users, I thought I'd try and shed some light on what was going on.

I've been lucky to have had the chance to play with CS5 for some time now, and I can tell you...this isn't the PPro you may have used in the past. It's really, really good. Much more stable, lots of improvements, and Mercury is just amazing. People can post here about how it's the same old PPro, blah, blah, blah. But unless you've used this version, I don't think it's fair to make critical comments about it. I'll admit, previous versions have been less than perfect. And this one isn't perfect either (no NLE is) - but it's a hell of a release. The best one ever in my opinion, and I've been using Premiere since 1996. It's what I use to make a living, and it's never let me down.

But if you want this thread to just be a rant-fest, then I'll just step aside and let you all have at it. Again, I was just trying to help out.


---Eric
Owner | 100 ACRE FILMS
http://www.100acrefilms.com


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Tom DaigonRe: CS5 - already frustrated - REALLY Adobe?!?!
by on May 2, 2010 at 3:31:28 am

Eric Addison:
As an editor for 30 years of such platforms as Avid DS, Media Composer and lately on FCP, I really appreciate you sharing your experience with CS5 and clarifying many things. It is a refreshing change from the
childish rants in this thread.

Avid DS/FCP Editor
http://www.hdshotsandcuts.com


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eric monroeRe: CS5 - already frustrated - REALLY Adobe?!?!
by on May 2, 2010 at 11:07:25 pm

Tom: I kindly hope that you are not directing "childish rants" at me for posting this.

My initial reason (yes, through frustration, I admit) was to let people know, who might not have seen the small disclaimer, not to waste their time downloading the trial if they were going to be expecting to give CS5 a run with the ever popular and much hated AVCHD format. That was truly all.

I too have used PPRO since CS2 and I make my full-time living doing long form, multicam (4 to be exact) production work. The release of CS5 for me personally has been a much awaited thing. I have been a diehard adobe guy since getting into this field. However, my bubble was burst when i found through d'ling the trial that i could in fact not use the very features that adobe has bragged/advertised SOOOO much about.

My main frustration comes from the fact that adobe premiere elements has access to the mpeg codecs in its trial.....so this whole adobe would have to pay lic. fees comes as a bit of a confusing thing. Elements, has a watermark over exported videos in the trial...but gives you the ability to at least TRIAL the software. So why then would they not allow us to place clips on the timeline, and just render the media encoder useless so that in the trial exporting would not be allowed.....at least then we could see if our machines could benefit from the new software.

I feel that everyone here has made points that hold value, and to everyone, i appreciate ALL of your input on my topic. If frustrations, or differing points of view are "childish rants" then why do we have forums? Maybe Adobe should read these forums, and posts to get a feel for the temperature of the situations going on with REAL users.

Eric A. I thnak you for giving us your insight, and sharing your experiences. EVERYONE here has the right to their opinion, even if some disagree. That is what makes this forum great.


I was not trying to start people arguing, i only wanted to voice my frustration, and see if others could shed light to the situation. See if others shared in or disagreed with my take on things. I appreciate each one of your inputs, and want to be "cool" with all of you.

cheers,

Eric M.


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Bob DixRe: CS5 - already frustrated - REALLY Adobe?!?!
by on May 2, 2010 at 12:54:43 pm

I like your comments !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Freelance Imaging & Video
AUSTRALIA


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Bob DixRe: CS5 - already frustrated - REALLY Adobe?!?!
by on Apr 30, 2010 at 10:25:23 pm

That would be normal for Adobe you could not even trial high definition on the previous trials, a complete loss. You have got to buy it, it may be ok. But, trial it never. I have been using Premiere Pro 1.5.1 for 5 years and it has been a superb editor but it cannot handle the latest codecs very well , like H.264 mov out of a Canon EOS 5D mark II.It will handle it technically very well but, it is very, very slow.A new computer 64 bit is called for regardless.
I have trialled Sony Vegas but, it does not do the work as well as Premiere Pro.

I trialled the latest amateur version Premiere Elements 8 some time ago and it had trial version plastered over the monitor but, I think it ran all the latest codecs & high definition, but, was not in the same league as the 3 year old Premiere Pro, incidentally Premiere Elements 4 can handle H.264 and some of the others but, it too is slow.
Good luck ?

Freelance Imaging & Video
AUSTRALIA


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Anthony MilesRe: CS5 - already frustrated - REALLY Adobe?!?!
by on May 1, 2010 at 12:35:25 am

I too have been eagerly awaiting these new what sounds to be very useful upgrades in speed and capability. I moved from adobe to FCP about 4 years ago and FCP was so stable it was amazing, it literally changed my life where the old PPro was always crashing. I want to try CS5 as well, but looks like I will have to try another route to see if it truly does what Adobe marketing it says and if it is STABLE on longer form projects.

You think the companies doing the licensing would see teh benefit of extending the trial as well. it is pretty short sighted from a business perspective to not let Adobe pt it out there to show it off. Unless Apple owns the licenses and they don't want to share the love :-)

Best,
Anthony

Best regards,
Anthony Miles
DP, Editor 4th Wall Productions, LLC
http://4thwalltvandfilm.com


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eric monroeRe: CS5 - already frustrated - REALLY Adobe?!?!
by on May 1, 2010 at 1:18:50 am

Hey Anthony,

I recently gave FCP studio 2 a try and really liked it. It is very stable and very smooth in the way that it handles footage etc. I have always been a diehard Ppro user, but I agree with you on the fact that it has its downfalls in the area of stability.

So, since the only way that CS5 will seem to benefit me is if I buy a $4000.00 Quadro card, I will just dive into FCP and take a look at the new FCP Studio 3. I guess it won't hurt to spend some time there anyways....it will just make me more rounded as an editor....being able to operate in either system.

Eric


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Anthony MilesRe: CS5 - already frustrated - REALLY Adobe?!?!
by on May 1, 2010 at 1:23:38 am

Thanks Eric,
I appreciate it. I am seriously considering the addition and wanting to enjoy the benefits of PPro CS5 advertised speed enhancements, but I really can not handle regular instability in my editing environment.

I look forward to more comments from other users.

Best regards,
Anthony Miles
DP, Editor 4th Wall Productions, LLC
http://4thwalltvandfilm.com


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Eric AddisonRe: CS5 - already frustrated - REALLY Adobe?!?!
by on May 1, 2010 at 1:35:00 am

"So, since the only way that CS5 will seem to benefit me is if I buy a $4000.00 Quadro card..."

Not true at all. I've got it running on my laptop without CUDA acceleration, and I still get the benefit of the Mercury Playback only it's not as powerful at with the Quadro or GTX card.

As an example, I laid down some greenscreen footage shot XDCAM EX 1080 30p on a timeline, used the new Ultra keyer, and the keyed footage played back in realtime without needing to render. I could not do that in CS4 (or FCP).

Now, if you don't have that powerful of a system, your results may vary - my laptop is a i7 920 2Ghz with 8GB RAM and a GTX 230M 1GB video card. But just know that you don't need the Quadro is see improved playback...it just won't be quite as powerful as with the card.

Oh, and you don't need to spend $4000 for a card - the GTX 285 is around $400, and the Quadro 3800 is about $700.

---Eric
Owner | 100 ACRE FILMS
http://www.100acrefilms.com


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eric monroeRe: CS5 - already frustrated - REALLY Adobe?!?!
by on May 1, 2010 at 1:53:24 am

Hey Eric.....really glad to hear something positive about CS5. Glad to hear it is running well for you. I am prolly not goin to abandon adobe entirely, just take a leave of absence while I take the time to finish learning FCP. I would like to be fluent in both "languages"

When i said it wouldnt benefit me, i wasnt totally clear i guess. I do mostly 4-camera angle long form production work. So I most always have 4 streams of footage going into the multicam viewer at 30-45 minutes long each. In DV this has never been an issue......well I want to be able to do that with HD, and from the looks of it, you can only do that if you have one of those high end quadro cards.

Again, I hope I am wrong cuz the integration in the CS is really a great thing. I have a decent SD workflow in CS4 so I am goin to continue with that until more CS5 feedback comes in over a period of the next few months while I learn FCP on the side in all of my "spare time" LOL


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Jiri FialaRe: CS5 - already frustrated - REALLY Adobe?!?!
by on May 1, 2010 at 8:58:44 pm

Actually, i think that the lack of H.264 (Canon DSLR) presets is completely unrelated to licencing reasons. If that were the case, I guess there wouldn't be H.264 in Adobe Media Encoder CS5 trial as well. But there is.

Premiere CS5 tryout is kind of useless. The only real feature, Mercury engine (which is really impressive and fast even on older HW), cannot be put to good use. And even with Mercury working, it's still the same old Premiere - clunky interface, reconnecting media hell, unstable capture, bugs all over the place. Thanks, but no thanks.


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eric monroeRe: CS5 - already frustrated - REALLY Adobe?!?!
by on May 1, 2010 at 9:53:04 pm

I am with ya. What are you editing with? I am currently diving into FCP studio 3 and enjoying it so far.


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Jiri FialaRe: CS5 - already frustrated - REALLY Adobe?!?!
by on May 1, 2010 at 10:00:17 pm

FCS 3 as well. It's a workhorse :) It doesn't have flashy features of Premiere, but unlike Premiere, it actually allows you to work.


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Peter CorbettRe: CS5 - already frustrated - REALLY Adobe?!?!
by on May 2, 2010 at 12:16:13 pm

I switched to FCP from CS4 last year, but FCP ain't no racehorse. One of the biggest failings of Final Cut is the Titler. It is like something that was around in early non-linear systems ten years ago. Hopeless. The Inscriber-based titler in Premiere kills FCP for speed and power.

I use Final Cut as my primary editor every day bit but I've never met a NLE user group of editors as defensive as Mac/Final Cut users. There is much to like about Final Cut, but it's almost a crime to criticise anything about FCP... I think Apple is really falling away from the rest of the pack.

Peter Corbett
Powerhouse Productions
http://www.php.com.au


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andy pradaRe: CS5 - already frustrated - REALLY Adobe?!?!
by on May 2, 2010 at 10:08:18 pm

I've worked on both FCP and Premiere for many years now. I currently have my own iCore 950 W764bit Premiere setup using BCC6, Graffiti etc (Uncompressed and HDV)and work out-house for clients using their own FCPs - (DV,HDV,HD etc)

In my experience all Premiere versions are buggy and unstable compared to equivalent FCPs. But that's to be expected when the OS and the Edit software are not written by the same people. Apple clearly have an advantage here.

CS4 average crashes or freezes or go slows per day = 7
FCP = 1 (at most)

If I had to be brutally honest, if it were not for AE and Photoshop, I suspect Adobe would be dead in the water as far as Premiere is concerned. It really is a flawed diamond of a programme that lacks functionality in some key areas. It's only by carefully locking editors in to a creative suite that they have kept ahead of the game. Adobe tread a very edgy tightrope here because they know that logically AE and Premiere should coalesce eventually. But that isn't good for revenue streams is it?

As for Creative Suite - it's great as a concept but it's hugely complex in terms of resources that it ties up - hence CS4 became all but unusable in a 32 bit environment and not much better in optimised 64 bit. CS5 should solve this (plus a healthy investment in GFX card hardware.) I say SHOULD.

FC Studio is a good attempt at emulating CS but Motion is no AE and they have no Photoshop equivalent which is pretty amazing considering how much Editing and Gfx merge these days. Apple really should get out more. DVD Studio is ok and allows for some high level scripting but I much prefer Encore. Livetype was fantastic (I say WAS because the latest FCS doesn't include it any more) Soundtracks software is also good and has a better interface than Audition.

Where am I going with this you ask? Where indeed! I guess it comes down to hope and prayer. I actually think Premiere is a better editor's tool than FCP and prefer it. I just hope that CS5 will sort the stability issues that have plagued CS4.

Meanwhile I think you are doing the sensible thing by becoming proficient with both and keeping your options open. At the least it sends a message to software providers that they haven't got roll over and die customers for life.

best

andy




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Peter CorbettRe: CS5 - already frustrated - REALLY Adobe?!?!
by on May 2, 2010 at 11:27:18 pm

[andy prada] "Meanwhile I think you are doing the sensible thing by becoming proficient with both and keeping your options open. At the least it sends a message to software providers that they haven't got roll over and die customers for life."

I agree with everything yuo said Andy. Now that I have a Mac Pro and have resonable experience with FCP, I plan to have both CS5 and FCP on the same OSX system. (I have noticed though that you have to reboot after using CS4 before attempting to use FCP again - I suspect this is the shared AJA drivers)

I get quite a few crashes per day with FCP, but again I suspect this is somthing to do the AJA plugin.

I beta-tested versions of Premiere until CS4 then gave it away because it was just so unstable. But I returned to the end of the CS5 beta-cycle and I have to say I have never heard such a rave about a CS release from beta-testers as I have with CS5. My Windows experience bears this out, and here's hoping for the Mac release.

Peter Corbett
Powerhouse Productions
http://www.php.com.au


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Neil MyersRe: CS5 - already frustrated - REALLY Adobe?!?!
by on May 8, 2010 at 2:14:20 am

Andy:

I, too use Premiere Pro with a similar rig. I used to crash a lot but once I upgraded to 12GB ram I stopped crashing almost completely. That may or may not be what is happening with you, but if you have 6GB or less of RAM that is one idea. FWIW.

Neil Myers
Connect Public Relations
CS4 Master Suite, 3DS


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eric monroeRe: CS5 - already frustrated - REALLY Adobe?!?!
by on May 3, 2010 at 2:56:05 am

[Peter Corbett] ". I think Apple is really falling away from the rest of the pack. "

In what ways? I am interested because i am spending quite a bit of time right now learning this software.



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Peter CorbettRe: CS5 - already frustrated - REALLY Adobe?!?!
by on May 3, 2010 at 5:40:15 am

[eric monroe] "[Peter Corbett] ". I think Apple is really falling away from the rest of the pack. "

In what ways? I am interested because i am spending quite a bit of time right now learning this software."


I'm not saying it's a bad program. I've edited over fifty commercials this year on it. But I would like:

1. A better in-built titler. FCP users say use the Boris plugin. Its not the same. Anyone who has tried it and PPro Titler knows what I mean.
2. Better intergation with image software like PPro and Photoshop has.
3. Hardware-assisted rendering like Mercury.
4. Better manipulation of the GUI. You can't even adjust the brightness of the display.
5. Better integration with Windows ceated AVI files. And MP4's.

These are just some things that come to mind. I'm not bagging FCP - I do like many parts of it. But as someone once said, "if you are standing still, you are going backwards."

Peter Corbett
Powerhouse Productions
http://www.php.com.au


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Eric AddisonRe: CS5 - already frustrated - REALLY Adobe?!?!
by on May 2, 2010 at 2:37:23 am

"Actually, i think that the lack of H.264 (Canon DSLR) presets is completely unrelated to licencing reasons."

Are they not in the trial version PPro? I had heard that they were...

---Eric
Owner | 100 ACRE FILMS
http://www.100acrefilms.com


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Jiri FialaRe: CS5 - already frustrated - REALLY Adobe?!?!
by on May 2, 2010 at 6:47:50 am

No, they are not. Only DV, DVCPro and some mobile devices presets in trial.


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eric monroeRe: CS5 - already frustrated - REALLY Adobe?!?!
by on May 3, 2010 at 2:50:59 am

Hey Andy,


I just played with Motion for the first time yesterday, and I don't really do alot with AE in the first place. What would you say Motion lacks when compared to AE?

Also, what would you say is the reason that basically all the big name people use FCP or Avid, and not PPro stations for their workflows?

Just wanted to hear your take....and anyone else who wants to comment.


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andy pradaRe: CS5 - already frustrated - REALLY Adobe?!?!
by on May 3, 2010 at 8:48:58 am

[What would you say Motion lacks when compared to AE?]

Keying quality, speed of response on complex layered projects, filter set, ability to work well on most PCs (Motion is very resource intensive.) One thing motion does have which AE lacks is plenty of quick to use presets.

The reason big name people use Avid and FCP (I also use Avid Adrenaline myself although not so much now) is compatibility and stability. I'll take the second issue first.

In a commercial facilities environment (as opposed to home studio) the need to have kit working solidly from minute 1 until the end of a session, often accompanied by clients, is the paramount requirement. Today's deadlines simply do not allow for more than an occasional freeze or crash. Unstable software kills confidence and hence revenue.

Premiere can do creatively all that Avid and FCP can do - and more in some cases. That's the reason why I went this route for my home office in UK. Firstly it was much less expensive, secondly (and this was important for me) it gave me more time at home with my daughter instead of heaving to commute 3 hours day to London and miss her growing up.

The downside was less stability and more time-shifting of my work patterns into the evening to accommodate freezes and long render times (not a problem when you work 3 seconds from home).

The first issue I raised was compatibility. It's hugely important from a commercial imperative to adopt a system that everyone can use off-the-street or be trained on and has a solid body of existing customers.

In the old days Avid had the lions share of the broadcast and professional market. But it was quite expensive for an individual to buy because you had to have the hardware that went with it. (Why do I see parallels with the need for Cuda technology and CS5?) Creators tended to hire their edit suites on a daily basis rather than buy them so Avid built their reputation on rock-solid performance and stability.

Speed Razor (fantastic but functionally immature) and Premiere (a bit amateurish) were the home alternatives and were perfectly good for low end work. Later came FCP and then FC Studio.

Back to reality and todays' market. My evaluation of Premiere is that it works perfectly well at the DV end with a couple of video streams and a few audio and video effects. It really struggles when the bar is lifted to HD and every aspect of the timeline has a green line due to hi end audio and video filters. This is not meant to be a criticism because the ask is pretty high.

But if you want to play with the big boys you have to have big boy's boots and CS5 will need to have boots and then some if it wants to crack the real PRO market.

I leave this post with one example: - the inability of Premiere to digitise over time code breaks or discontinuous timecode.

All PRO environments use timecode and it often gets broken on tape when cameras are powered up and down. In Avid I can set it to digitise over breaks. It will simply pick up and continue. Premiere can't do this. So a tape that may also be shot ToD (Time of day) is also going to have problems because Premiere can't cope.

The end result is me having to go through the footage and log it all first to avoid the problem. THAT is far from PRO and another example of a revenue killer!

I reiterate my case - get proficient on as many NL systems as you can so you can work for anyone. Buy the system that will suit you needs both professionally or personally. But be aware that you get what you pay for.

best

andy


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eric monroeRe: CS5 - already frustrated - REALLY Adobe?!?!
by on May 3, 2010 at 8:55:25 pm

Andy,

I greatly appreciate you taking the time to post this. This has been helpful. Thanks a bunch.


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icecooled oc intel x6800Re: CS5 - already frustrated - REALLY Adobe?!?!
by on May 3, 2010 at 7:46:18 pm

Hey Eric M,

I do multicam work as well. Landscape 5 HD cameras panorama with 1.5 hours each of game film.
I'm amazed with CS5!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I just dropped my 5 AVCHD files (both Sony and Panasonic) in and they were ready to work with IMMEDIATELY!!!!! FUNNY they're all named MTS0001 so I have to rename them. No need to capture HDMI 5 times 1.5 hours anymore.
Even with my BlackMagic card presets that outputs directly to my 46", they preview immediately and conforming for 16bit audio doesn't take long either!
Edius software edits/previews AVCHD immediately (preview window) with their trial but I don't have their output card.

FCP?? I burn with Blu-Ray so I think its funny you mention FCP (no support).

In CS5 I can apply effects (like scale,rotation, position the usual that I do for panorama) and see it on my TV immediately (although have to render for RT playback of multi effects). I add the film twice on tracks so I have 5 non-effect tracks that I can eyeball between and these easily play out realtime both in the AVCHD and BMD presets!

I have an i7,gigabyte,SSD,GTX260 that I put together under $550.
Haven't done much else but edit my files Gigabytes smaller and with no more 11 hour downtime!

I don't understand you complaining about money if you are working with FCP?

Good luck wasting your time without CS5!

T


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eric monroeRe: CS5 - already frustrated - REALLY Adobe?!?!
by on May 3, 2010 at 8:53:33 pm

[icecooled oc intel x6800] "I don't understand you complaining about money if you are working with FCP?"

Why is that? Adobe production premium = $1699 FCS3 = $999

FCS is cheaper.





[icecooled oc intel x6800] "Haven't done much else but edit my files Gigabytes smaller and with no more 11 hour downtime!"

Why are you experiencing 11 hour down time?



[icecooled oc intel x6800] "Good luck wasting your time without CS5!"

So becoming proficient at another editing software is wasting my time? Last time I checked, if you go to look for a job as an editor, WAY MORE of them require FCP experience, than do require PPro experience. just sayin.


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icecooled oc intel x6800Re: CS5 - already frustrated - REALLY Adobe?!?!
by on May 4, 2010 at 3:40:45 am

Eric M,

Thanks for the follow up. I guess I was not clear with my comments.
I mentioned price because I assumed your were using a PC (from my perspective) and switched to a Mac (the equivalent Mac of my computer cost 4 times more (except the Mac doesn't have a Blue-ray burner).
Also, I don't assume I have to buy a new Photoshop, Flash, Illustrator, AfterEffects, ect.
And, well, most people are upgrading, so the $1699 is a straw-man.
I'm happy with my PhotoShop 5, Illustrator 10, After Effects 6.5 and Flash CS4! [I use what I need and don't have much use for Adobe bridge]

"Haven't done much else but edit my files Gigabytes smaller and with no more 11 hour downtime!" Me
What I meant was I can't speak about all benefits but the time-saving is great. Previously I had to capture real-time through my HDMI BMD card 5 cameras worth of 1.5 hours of film ---that's 11 hours before I started editing."
Because CS5 supports real time AVCHD codec now (I can plug the 5 SD/or Pro DUo cards in by usb adapters and edit without rendering preview files/converting to intermediate codec, ect).
Having 5 streams of Full HD immediately on the timeline is nice, and they play back in realtime.
All with pretty decent but not expensive prosumer tools. No P2's, Raid array, mega SDI capture box, ect. just a hand-built pc and 5 prosumer AVCHD cameras.


"Good luck wasting your time without CS5!"
I meant the comment in the narrow specifics of the workflow you mentioned-[4 streams of footage going into the multicam viewer at 30-45 minutes long each] -if you have a workflow that requires importing your files and converting them to SD or realtime capturing DV, ect (like 4 cameras times 30minutes content) it would be much faster to just plug in SD cards and edit immediately. I assume you have cameras with AVCHD and aren't just tape.

Sure its valid to learn other programs, but I'm not concerned with getting a job as an editor.

It would be nice if the multicam had a more than 4 camera option but I just scale the five down and view simultaneously while editing the duplicate tracks not scaled.

As far as stability, haven't has an issue since using Premiere 6 and a matrox card nearly last century. However, I use dedicated OS drives (1 premiere only) (1 AE, Premiere, Photoshop), ect. and a system with only the editing software I need and don't use the internet with the system. Since Premiere Pro 2 I haven't had my computer crash, all with working on 3+ tracks of full HD of over 1hour length content.
The only thing was a little disappearing audio waveform here or there and sometimes a need to close and restart premiere to export a file properly (fixed with CS4).

T




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eric monroeRe: CS5 - already frustrated - REALLY Adobe?!?!
by on May 4, 2010 at 4:10:25 am

Hey T,

I am blown away at how you can edit that length of HD footage and not have issues with native AVCHD. I have a Quad-core machine, running 8 gb of RAM, 10k velociraptor system (c:) drive, a raid zero for media/scratches, yet another 1tb drive for project files, GTX260 card like yours, and I cant budge AVCHD in the multicam viewer 4-up. and that's only a couple minutes long each. My machine is a few years old, I just added some of those upgrades recently. Maybe the bus speeds aren't there with my setup like machines that are newer.....who knows.

I am using FCP currently and for more than one reason, mainly cuz I wanna be well-rounded as an editor, I feel that I can learn from the way other NLE's handle their workflow. I have learned quite a bit from the way that FCP does things, and it has helped me even in premiere workflows. I am not looking for a job either, I work full-time running my own business doing video production work, but ya just never know what can happen these days. I am extremely blessed right now, with more work than I can handle, but ya just nvr know what future holds. So if I have a wide skill set, at least I could go out there and be more usuable if I had to be.

I have a mac and a pc, so that is why I said FCP was cheaper, cuz I already own both. I was director of video for a large church for 3 years, before moving from there into doing my own stuff full-time. I had a really nice custom built quad-core machine with production premium CS3. Now I help out here and there at the church we currently attend, and I have access to a Mac Pro with the FCP Studio 3 on it. So I am gonna sit back and wait to see what happens, in the mean time, I will keep using my CS4, and the older FCP studio 2 that I have on my mac. Till I get a better feel for what kinda specs I need in a machine to run CS5. FCP has a pretty solid proxy editing workflow, and yes you do have to rewrap to prores, but it doesnt bother me, cuz I can set everythign to log and transfer while I am in bed, I get up the next morning, walk down to my studio, and I am ready to edit.

Have a great night!


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Anthony MilesRe: CS5 - already frustrated - REALLY Adobe?!?!
by on May 5, 2010 at 4:48:46 am

Thanks for the great info and review of workflow. I am looking forward to having both and seeing how my working processes can advance, especially with a more inexpensive hardware. Also, hoping Apple is going to step up soon and meet adobe's performance on the playing field.

Best regards,
Anthony Miles
DP, Editor 4th Wall Productions, LLC
http://4thwalltvandfilm.com


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Dennis RafnRe: CS5 - already frustrated - REALLY Adobe?!?!
by on May 9, 2010 at 3:15:08 pm

"Why is that? Adobe production premium = $1699 FCS3 = $999 "

Yaa MAC and FCP is so GOD like, so you dont need such stupid things as Photoshop, Ilustrator, AE...among others.

Premiere cost $799.



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Anthony MilesRe: CS5 - already frustrated - REALLY Adobe?!?!
by on May 16, 2010 at 6:14:49 pm

Not sure I understand your post, you sound frustrated with the Mac guys loving their Macs maybe I read it wrong. Anyway, I always have the latest Adobe CS suite specifically for Photoshop and I couldn't live without it on my Mac and in my FCS workflow. It is way to valuable.

Best regards,
Anthony Miles
DP, Editor 4th Wall Productions, LLC
http://4thwalltvandfilm.com


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