Quad Core and Premiere Pro

	Quad Core and Premiere Pro by Bob Kiger on Jul 27, 2009 at 10:28:09 pm At Videography Lab we were beta testers on the CS2 package and managed to cut a feature length film and DVD of same during the test. That would be "Cruiser Bob's Tour da'Maui". All this was done with souped up Pentium M 1.8 computers with internal 7200 rpm Hitachi drives. We have several of these old beasts and will still defend them to the point that we sat out the dual processor era and have now ordered a Quad Core notebook. We are anxiously awaiting the ASUS G71G-Q2 17" 2.0GHz Quad Core/6GB/640GB/Blu-Ray which has gone through interminable delays since we slapped down just under $2K for the machine. Just under $2K for such a powerhouse is a pretty good deal compared to comparable units. So then the question arises in many an advanced report...what good are four processors when most apps don't take advantage of the speed? Does anybody already have Premiere Pro running on a Quad Core laptop? Is it a good thing or are there problems with the 64 bit OS? BTW the unit we purchased comes with auto upgrade to Windows 7. We are wondering whether to just load our XP Pro and avoid Vista altogether. Any opinions about this or any other aspect of this plan? Thank you, Bob Kiger - Videography Lab - where "vid" means more than just shooting videos. Bob Kiger seminal author of "videography" [OCT1972-AMERICAN CINEMATOGRAPHER] www.videographyblog.com Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: Quad Core and Premiere Pro by Mike Prindle on Jul 27, 2009 at 11:14:04 pm Hi Bob, I have a laptop with a Q6600, 4GB ram, nVidia 8800m gtx; I currently use Ppro CS4 and in my opinion, it runs pretty fast with both render and Encore DVD encoding and burn – 2hr movie takes about 40-50 minutes from timeline to DVD finish; that’s pretty fast to me, but maybe too slow for other faster, more capable rigs (hi-end desktops). I read that CS4 is written to utilize multi-threading for Quad chips. I am certain that Photoshop is multi, but not certain about Ppro or AE in CS4. Also not sure if CS2 use multi-thread in their software, another thread claims that CS3 is multi. I’ve had only very minor problems with x64 — mostly with smaller applications. But the big ones – Adobe, Corel, etc – seem to be fine. I defer a more technical opinion to the seasoned experts. Many say its not worth buying multi-cores until the software developers catch-up writing code for multi-threads. But I bought my notebook last year with Quad and x64 O/S — with the idea that eventually the software would catch up – even if before that, two or three cores sit at idle. That way, when the software accommodates, I don’t have to trade up to quads and x64 since I already have it. Just one opinion that worked for me. There are several other related thread here you may want to check out. Good luck, Mike Sager NP9262 Notebook, Intel Quad Q6600, 4GB DDR2, nVidia 8800m GTX Sli, 3x-Seagate 320GB, WUXGA, Vista Premium-64 - CS4 Prod Prem Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: Quad Core and Premiere Pro by Bob Kiger on Jul 28, 2009 at 12:10:22 am What are the problems with multi cores and "small programs" in 64 bit environment? Bob Kiger seminal author of "videography" [OCT1972-AMERICAN CINEMATOGRAPHER] www.videographyblog.com Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: Quad Core and Premiere Pro by Vince Becquiot on Jul 28, 2009 at 2:03:04 am Bob, The issues people had with 64 Bit (Vista or XP) were because of hardware drivers. Most manufacturers of recent hardware now support 64 bits, they would get hell from their customer base if they didn't. CS4 fully supports and takes advantage of multi core processing, as well as RAM above 4 GB under Vista 64. Programs can run in 32 or 64 bits under Vista 64, so compatibility issues to watch out for would be for Vista itself and not the 64 bits environment. Cheers, Vince Becquiot Kaptis Studios San Francisco - Bay Area Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: Quad Core and Premiere Pro by Peter Berthet on Jul 28, 2009 at 3:24:50 am ill have to disagree, the only program in the CS4 package that supports full 64 bit operation is photoshop the only other benefit to running under 64 bit is, as vince said support for larger amounts of ram as far as premiere goes, ive been testing this week and didnt see a noticable difference between 4G and 8G in premiere, however adobe media encoder does perform faster with larger amounts of ram ill say again though, ALL adobe software with the exception of photoshop are 32 bit applications, all they support is multithreading under a 64 bit OS you will not see true benefits of a 64 bit environment in any package except photoshop 64 ~Peter Berthet Sydney, Australia Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: Quad Core and Premiere Pro by Bob Kiger on Jul 28, 2009 at 3:44:37 am Did a Bing search on Windows 7 64 vs. 32 bit and here's what it said: Pros and Cons of a 64 bit system: * You can address much more than 4GB of memory, which is ideal for avid gamers, CAD, video editors and heavy multi-taskers. However, any 32 bit software you use will still be restricted to 4GB memory – you need a 64 bit CPU, OS and applications to take full advantage of the extra RAM. * 16 bit applications will no longer run. Although this is unlikely to be a problem, if you use very old software (from the Windows 3.1 days!) then it will not work under a 64 bit OS. * Existing 32 bit drivers no longer work.If you have older or poorly supported hardware you may find that it can no longer be used. Got a 7 year old scanner that just about works in Vista? You may not be able to get it working in 64 bit Windows 7. * Unsigned kernel-mode drivers no longer work. Along with the issue above, the inability to run unsigned kernel mode drivers will cause problems for old hardware. (There is reportedly a way to bypass this check). * Running some 32 bit applications on a 64 bit OS could actually be slower. The additional overheads in running 32 bit software in 64 bit mode could cause a slight degradation in performance. It will take some time for 64 bit software to become the norm. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ Sooooo [we have a difference of opinion about CS4/64bit]. it seems important that those of us buying computers that can use more than 4GB of RAM know whether to go with 64 bit OS or hang back with 32 bit? Could we get more opinions on the Adobe CS4 suite . . . like from Adobe? Bob Kiger seminal author of "videography" [OCT1972-AMERICAN CINEMATOGRAPHER] www.videographyblog.com Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: Quad Core and Premiere Pro by Vince Becquiot on Jul 28, 2009 at 4:10:21 am I'm not sure who disagrees with who, but it seems we all agree. 64 bit is needed for the extra RAM. In fact, our Core i7, also a quad core routinely goes over 5 GB with Premiere alone, so a 32 bit system could not take advantage of it. And if you use After Effects, you'll need even more RAM. As for degradation in performance, I believe this is referring to older applications running Microsoft emulation layer, not the case for Premiere. There is in the end more overhead in running a 64 bit system, but being limited to less than 4 Gigs of RAM is not an option for us any more. Vince Becquiot Kaptis Studios San Francisco - Bay Area Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: Quad Core and Premiere Pro by Vince Becquiot on Jul 28, 2009 at 3:24:39 pm That sounds about right. The more core, the more RAM you'll need. A Quad core with Premiere alone might hover at 4 Gigs. Add dynamic link and After Effects and you will make good use of 8 Gigs, but you'll need that 64 bit OS. An i7 will need at least 6 for Premiere alone. Vince Becquiot Kaptis Studios San Francisco - Bay Area Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: Quad Core and Premiere Pro by Mark Hollis on Jul 28, 2009 at 4:51:58 pm Bob, really, 32-bit Windows applications can only see 3G of system RAM and they have to be written specifically to even see that (many can only see 2G). The default Windows XP Professional boot.ini file must be modified to handle memory usage with many applications and the hardware that they use. For this purpose, the boot.ini file must include the following text: "Microsoft Windows XP Professional 3GB DS=2700" /fastdetect /3GB/USERVA=2700 Bill Gates said a few years ago, "You can do everything in 64K." He later said, "640K ought to be enough for anyone." In theory, a 32-bit application can see 4G of system RAM and 32-bit applications that run on Apple's OS X can use close to all of that. But Microsoft mired itself into a RAM-addressing scheme that requires space in the computer's memory for peripherals, like your monitor, keyboard, I/O systems (everything from Firewire to AJA cards) and so on. So 32-bit Windows applications (and, indeed 64-bit applications that run under Microsoft's OS) suffer from a need to reserve RAM address space for hardware. I don't suppose under 64-bit Vista and Windows 7 we'll run into the upper limits of RAM all that soon, as the theoretical limit for 64-bit applications is 16.8 million terabytes. Though I'm sure that a version of Photoshop in your future will run into that upper limit. What if there were no hypothetical questions? Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: Quad Core and Premiere Pro by Bob Kiger on Jul 28, 2009 at 9:36:04 pm Thanks to all for cluing us in on CS4 and memory usage. There does seem to be a fairly consistent pattern of opinion here: Vista 64 bit is a memory hog. Photoshop is the only true 64 bit application in the CS4 suite and October 22 is the release date for Windows 7 [our "hypothetical" ASUS notebook comes with an automatic upgrade to Windows 7] Adobe is beta testing CS5 right now, according to a heap of stories on http://cs5.org/ and the schedule seems poised to hype at the upcoming CEA and NAB shows for release Spring 2010. Of course Apple will counter with their FCP 64 bit package. Timed to appear with Windows 7 is a WAVE of quad core computers that are now entering the China pipeline. On May 22 Fry's Electronics online advertised a "hypothetical" ASUS G71Gx-A1 for $1799.99. We tried to purchase on May 23 but they were out of stock. So were 9 of the 10 other "sellers" that suckered for an ASUS Press Release. One vendor [yet unnamed] offered this product on eBay as "Buy It Now" which we did using PayPal credit card for $1999.99. Long story short...they could not deliver, citing "parts problems". On 7/3/2009 they wrote me: "Hello Bob, The ETA on the new G71Gx-A1 is 7/13-7/14, and we will send out the same day that we receive. Also will notify you via phone with the discount + the gift. And if we send out between 7/13-7/14, you should have it in 2 business days." In the very same email they changed the model number to ASUS G71G-Q2 17" 2.0GHz Quad Core/6GB/640GB/Blu-Ray. We've called and written and received promises galore but none of them were honorable. They continued to list it on eBay until July 19 and they're a top rated Power Seller. We're still waiting, so if/when the item arrives, this entire thread may another one of those "teachable moments" that keep popping up. Clever way of whittling away at the China/US trade deficit :( Given all the above factors should we demand refund or should we hold their feet to the fire? Bob Kiger seminal author of "videography" [OCT1972-AMERICAN CINEMATOGRAPHER] www.videographyblog.com Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: Quad Core and Premiere Pro by Vince Becquiot on Jul 28, 2009 at 9:55:36 pm Unless they are paying you interest, I would request a refund :-) Vince Becquiot Kaptis Studios San Francisco - Bay Area Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: Quad Core and Premiere Pro by Mike Prindle on Jul 29, 2009 at 4:31:04 am Bob, I found this in the CS4 guide (likely most veteran users already know this). This suggests that more cores and more memory helps: "Optimize rendering for available memory By default, Adobe Premiere Pro renders video using the maximum number of available processors, up to 16. However, some sequences, such as those containing high-resolution source video or still images, require large amounts of memory for the simultaneous rendering of multiple frames. These can force Adobe Premiere Pro to abort rendering and to give a Low Memory Warning alert. In these cases, you can maximize the available memory by changing the rendering optimization preference from Performance to Memory. Change this preference back to Performance when rendering no longer requires memory optimization. 1. Select Edit > Preferences, and select General in the Preferences dialog box. 2. In the drop-down menu next to Optimize Rendering For, select Memory. 3. Click OK, close Adobe Premiere Pro, and reopen the project for the new preference to take effect." Hope this helps, Mike Sager NP9262 Notebook, Intel Quad Q6600, 4GB DDR2, nVidia 8800m GTX Sli, 3x-Seagate 320GB, WUXGA, Vista Premium-64 - CS4 Prod Prem Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: Quad Core and Premiere Pro by Bob Kiger on Jul 30, 2009 at 3:08:32 am Just got another phone call from the "unnamed" Seller. There are further delays from ASUS and he said he will be sending me their email regards the particulars. Something to do with the LCD on the unit. He is polite guy and that has what has held me from going ballistic on the whole deal. They will, in effect, be paying me interest because they just agreed to install 2 500GB 7200rpm hard drives in place of the stock 320s. A walking Terrabyte. My persistence in this "project" is also based on the timeline of events that will lead up to CS5 64 bit. I'd sure like to get into THAT beta group! Bob Kiger seminal author of "videography" [OCT1972-AMERICAN CINEMATOGRAPHER] www.videographyblog.com Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: Quad Core and Premiere Pro by Mark Hollis on Jul 30, 2009 at 8:09:26 pm Pardon me if I steal a thread here: Be very careful about scratch disks. I am very, very reluctant to use a boot drive for anything, save applications and storage of completed material, like that darned Excel spreadsheet my accountant had me produce. But on my own computer, I have it back up everything all of the time (Apple's Time Machine is a stroke of genius) to another hard drive that is 50% larger than my boot drive. I do not back up video storage. If I need safety, I run a RAID 5. Scratch disks for all Adobe applications that use them must be a drive that is relatively empty and very fast. As to RAM, in a 64-bit system, you want to add as much as is feasable for your budget. I believe the scratch disk is less used when you have more RAM and multicore systems will use more. Today, I think the fastest first-tier Windows computer is made by Apple. HP may just have developed something very interesting, though. I'm not sure I'd ever do what Bob's doing. Maybe I'm too conservative but I want a computer that the manufacturer will repair or replace within one day and get me back up and running with minimal fuss. People who don't earn their living doing this may disagree and, for them, any computer that will run the Adobe applications will be fine. But I prefer to spend appropriate money setting up a configuration that will emphasize reliability. Hard drives will work as virtual memory just fine. Computer programmers have been using them for some time, swapping in and out large datasets with ease. Adding Real Ram will cause the application to work faster. What if there were no hypothetical questions? Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: Quad Core and Premiere Pro by Dennis Radeke on Aug 6, 2009 at 11:09:23 am While it is true that only Photoshop (PC only) is a true 64bit program, it is an error to assume that Premiere Pro and After Effects do not benefit from a 64 bit environment. The single greatest advantage to a 64 bit system is the ability to address more memory and that's what Premiere Pro and After Effects do. You can access up to 4GB per core which means on a 4 core system, you could use 16gb. Where this is useful is when you're using the integration features of CS4. Dynamic Link, multiple programs sharing comps, sending to Encore, etc. These are all instances where the memory becomes a big help. I straight out recommend that people use Vista 64 with 8gb of RAM if at all possible. Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: Quad Core and Premiere Pro by Bob Kiger on Aug 7, 2009 at 12:48:43 am Thanks Dennis and all for the greatly expanding our knowledge of the many facets of converting to 64 bit computing as well as the state of play for CS4 today. As I mentioned in my last post the [unnamed seller] had conceded a fair bit to honor our early purchase of the ASUS quad core notebook. They ate the CA Sales tax and shipping. They have committed to replacing 2 - 500 GB 7200rpm drives for the stock 360GB drives and they are sending an external drive case to facilitate data transfer. In our last phone call they said they would send the email from ASUS. Here it is at http://videographyblog.com/ASUSemail.html We haven't seen such a heavily redacted email since the Pentagon papers were released :) And it gives no firm date of delivery :( This leads me to the guts of the matter. All the relevant technologies seem in flux right now: 1. Obviously the ASUS computer needs to arrive. Even if we got it tomorrow what OS would we load. We don't like our experience with Vista and don't want it on this computer. We don't want to go way back to XP Pro. So we are in a wait and hold position for Windows 7 64 bit version. And the wait should not be long says ZDnet at http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=1195 which announces the date as today "Thursday, August 6, to be exact—when MSDN and Technet subscribers will finally get the chance to download the software legitimately and activate their copies with product keys." The ZD review in general was pretty glowing so we will be glad to hop over Vista. Now to the Creative Suite. As we previously mentioned we have CS2 Video Collection as a reward for past beta testing. [and CS4 Dreamweaver]. There seems no doubt that CS2 is going to run a lot faster on the ASUS quad core with 6GB memory than on our existing [beloved] Pentium M Gateway ROGs w/ 1GB of memory. A side note on why we love the old Gateways. It's called Universal Drive Bay [UDB], which permits us to hot swap a hard drive right onto the laptop motherboard. We also have DVD burners and card readers and extra batteries that fit into the UDB. It keeps project management ultra simple because all the files for most projects fit on one drive. When we're ready for another project we just slap in the appropriate drive for that project. Well that feature seems to have slipped into oblivion so we wanted a notebook that really covered the bases. We have heard from several of you friends that 8GB is the ideal complement for CS4 and Windows Vista 64. Will that same 8GB be vital with Windows 7 64 bit? Since the ASUS can only accept 6GB how would that memory be allotted? [Using CS2 and "hypothetically" CS5 64bit]? As of this moment we are still waiting and slacking the "unnamed seller", who we believe is caught between a rock and a hard place [ASUS & US]. We don't have any rush rush editing projects in HD. So our inclination is just to wait for CS5 thinking that by than we'll have a pretty reasonable laptop editor. In the meantime we can shoot 1080p and catalog to our hearts content. Why laptop editor? Because I/we travel in a small RV to archaeology sites around the SW and Mexico and laptop batteries are the best protection against power failure from the solar system on the vehicle. Does anyone see a way to smooth out our plan? If so, kindly let us know. Bob Kiger seminal author of "videography" [OCT1972-AMERICAN CINEMATOGRAPHER] www.videographyblog.com Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: Quad Core and Premiere Pro by Bob Kiger on Aug 25, 2009 at 7:13:00 am An update on the situation. Today I received the ASUS Quad Core as ordered. It is sweet! So fast that I am even overcoming a long aversion for Vista...though I am hanging tough for Windows 7. If anyone knows how I can get a clean Windows 7 permit without waiting until October 22, please let me know. I am also hopeful that someone will open up an opportunity for me to beta test CS5 64 bit programs on this notebook. Please visit http://www.videographyblog.com and email me if you have an idea how this can happen! In the meantime I will give best efforts to proving the efficacy of PC/Adobe editing vs. MAC/FCP editing. Mahaloha, Bob Kiger seminal author of "videography" [OCT1972-AMERICAN CINEMATOGRAPHER] www.videographyblog.com Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index