Re: New bundle - RT.X2 with Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 Upgrade by Gary Bettan on Aug 3, 2007 at 8:11:30 pm
We've started playing with the RT.X2 ver 3 drivers and Premiere Pro CS3. So far the results have been very good.
One thing to keep in mind is that Matrox cards can be finicky if not put in the right computer. We only recommend using approved motherboards and following the Matrox system recommendations.
Do you have any specific issues / problems you want us to test/duplicate on our system?
Gary
Videoguys.com 800 323-2325
We are the desk top video editing and DVD production experts!
Re: New bundle - RT.X2 with Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 Upgrade by Harm Millaard on Aug 3, 2007 at 10:41:34 pm
To sum it up, Matrox offers a $ 1.200 board plus the upgrade from PP2 to CS3 @ $ 299 as a deal for only $ 1.500?? Given the track record of Matrox and their lack of support for existing boards, as stated in your message (they stopped supporting the RT.X100) this does not look attractive. IMO AJA and BlackMagic have better options with less compatibility issues, better stability and a more attractive price.
I still have a RT.X100 board somewhere and it is perfect.... as a doorstopper. I never could get Matrox to work decently and as you said yourself it only works on approved systems (well not even then) so you face an additional investment in a new system and know, that when CS4 comes out they will stop support for the RT.X2, which will be superseded by the soon to be announced RT.X3.
It seems like a $ 1.200 investment down the drain.
Re: New bundle - RT.X2 with Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 Upgrade by Gary Bettan on Aug 4, 2007 at 12:26:49 am
When the RTX.100 first shipped it came with Premeire 6.5. Matrox was the first and best at supporting Premier Pro and then Premiere Pro 2.
Canopus DV Storm and Pinnacle hardware where never able to fully support Premiere Pro.
While BlackMagic and Aja make very good products, they are nothing more then I/O for Premiere. The RTX2 and Axio LE offer additional performance beyond that. If these additional features are beneficial to your workflow, then it's a great investment. If the software alone and I/O is getting the job done for you then look no further then some additional RAM or CPU speed for more performance.
Re: New bundle - RT.X2 with Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 Upgrade by Eric Jurgenson on Aug 4, 2007 at 3:22:33 am
Regardless of what some people say about Matrox, their current boards are by a large margin the best solution for editing with Adobe Production Studio. The features they bring to the table - additional format support, native file format multistream realtime playback, realtime effects package (that works in After Effects as well), accelerated rendering and export, superior breakout box design, in a highly stable system is simply unmatched by any other PC/MAC solution. But you have to build a certified system for it to be guaranteed to work. The reason some people give Matrox a bad rap is that they built their own systems without doing the proper research into what will and what won't work. The information is on the Matrox website, and Matrox dealers are mandated to stick with certified systems. If you insist on building your own wacky system, (as many people seem to), you will get burned.
Re: New bundle - RT.X2 with Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 Upgrade by Steven L. Gotz on Aug 4, 2007 at 3:55:59 am
I can accept that the Matrox requires a specific system to operate in. I just wanted to know if Gary had faith in the results. He does make a living selling the things, but I believe he would have said that he didn't personally test it, or someone he trusted.
If he is happy with it, then that's great. I do wonder if some of the original problems, like voiceover recording, have been fixed.
I am not, however, in need of a device that does what the Matrox does. Not unless they supply me one, and a system to put in in. Then I would be happy to beta test it for them. Since that is unlikely, I will stick to what has worked for me since the beginning.
Re: New bundle - RT.X2 with Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 Upgrade by Eric Jurgenson on Aug 4, 2007 at 3:54:26 pm
I would suspect that few people with an up-to-date system would be in a position to upgrade to a Matrox card, since their system would be unlikely to meet the Matrox spec.
However, anyone building a new system should seriously consider Matrox. What's not to like about multi-stream real time native HD file playback, a real-time effects package, and accelerated rendering and export?
Frankly, anyone working in HD, especially HDV and XDCAM HD (long GOP MPEG) should build their system around the RTX2 or Axio LE card. It does so much more than a Xena card, but it's not that much more money.
I tried Cineform, but I was unhappy with transcoded files. They ate up a lot of disk space, lowered the quality somewhat, and complicated file management. I also had problems with long captures.
I do wish Matrox (or the VideoGuys) would give you a system to check out. As a forum leader, your opinion is highly respected, and you have helped many people here, including myself. Keep up the good work.
Re: New bundle - RT.X2 with Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 Upgrade by Steven L. Gotz on Aug 4, 2007 at 10:52:05 pm
I like Cineform as it has gottem me through for the last few years. They made it possible to edit HDV even during Beta trials.
Having seen the difference between native HDV editing and Cineform, I can't see where you would say that any quality was reduced. I really don't think I would ever trust the RTX.2 to be supported past a single Premiere Pro release. The Axio stuff that I have seen is excellent, however.
I recently won a AJA XENA LHe and as soon as my new graphics card comes in (stupid backorder) I will be using that with my Cineform Prospect HD to work in 10 bit. It should be interesting.
As I said before, the only reason I posted to this thread was to make sure that Gary was willing to risk his reputaton on this one, and since he seems to be, I figure it is safe to try it.
Re: New bundle - RT.X2 with Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 Upgrade by Eric Jurgenson on Aug 5, 2007 at 1:04:17 am
I think Cineform's codec is as good as any of them - DnxHD, ProRes, even Matrox MPEG I-frame. It's just that any transcoding is going to affect the quality slightly, and the key to maintaining quality is minimizing unnecessary transcoding steps, and using uncompressed codecs if necessary. if you are color correcting, 10-bit will help maintain your effective bit depth. As we all know, multiple transcoding steps, especially using compressed codecs, will rapidly turn HD video to mush.
Matrox's RTX2 is a unique product - specifically tailored to HDV and P2 editing without a pro deck (HDCAM, D5, DVCPRO HD). There are many people out there who have no intererst in HDSDI or $40K+ tape decks. So a Kona or a Xena card have limited usefulness to them. They just want to shoot, edit, and deliver a Blu-Ray DVD or other digital file on a data DVD. The RTX2 is perfect for them, with software features identical to, and performance close to Axio.
RTX2 software is now on version 3. I suspect, like any card, eventually it will become obsolete. But it just came out last year, and it's FPGA technology can be upgraded in the field. I'd give it another 4-5 years at least.
Re: New bundle - RT.X2 with Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 Upgrade by Eric Jurgenson on Aug 6, 2007 at 9:36:52 pm
I'm a director/editor at the Video Workshop in Portland, Maine. We have an Axio HD and an RTX2 system in-house, and have been using Matrox products (DigiSuite and RT products) since 1996 (first on our Inscriber CG in our old 1" online suite). I am a paid technical consultant for Maine Video Systems, who is a Matrox Gold dealer, also in Portland. I have also been a beta tester for Matrox in the past.
We have been in the production business since 1978. Our projects here run the gamut from TV spots to HD series.
I'm not a Matrox fanboy; I've carefully checked out the competition. If I thought we could do better with FCP/Kona, or an Adreneline, that's what we would edit on. But I don't.
Frankly I'm amazed that more people don't appreciate the performance/value of Axio ant RTX2. But if they don't, that's their problem. Most people, i understand, aren't really professional editors. They may do a project here and there, and for them, Pinnacle Studio is all they really need (although they'll buy FCP anyway to be cool).
For me it's important to export the DVDs as quickly as possible, so I can move on to something else. Speed is important to me. That's why I like Matrox.
Re: New bundle - RT.X2 with Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 Upgrade by Steven L. Gotz on Aug 7, 2007 at 1:33:27 pm
Don't assume I don't understand the benefits. I do. I also see all the complaints about the things Matrox has gotten wrong over the years. You have to be the one to determine if the problems are worth the benefits. Unfortunately, I have never seen Matrox release a list of problems with each release so that people can make a fair decision.
That is all people want. Enough information to make an informed decision.
Re: New bundle - RT.X2 with Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 Upgrade by Gary Bettan on Aug 7, 2007 at 2:45:02 pm
Steve,
I know that over the years some folks have had some issues with Matrox cards. We didn't sell DigiSuite, but we've been with them since the RT2000. Now that cardset was a nightmare to install, but we took the time and effort to learn everything we could about the issues and working with Matrox we were able to create some cookbooks and tech docs that made it work for more people. It still was a nightmare for those who ran into problems, but we kept on trying to make it better. With each new generation of Matrox RT products we have seen better compatibility and easier installs.
With the RTX.100 Matrox introduced a card that was as stable as the Canopus DV Storm. Canopus had set the bar for stability and performance as a Premiere accelerator. Unfortunately for Storm owners, when Adobe moved on to Premiere Pro, Canopus was unable to maintain the stability and performance that had made them tops in our market.
Matrox on the other hand was able to deliver solid drivers for Premiere Pro and then Premiere Pro CS2. With each FREE driver release they not only added compatibility with the new version, but additional features to the toolset. They continue to be by far and away the best hardware solution for Adobe editors. While others offer I/O - only Matrox delivers real-time performance, additional features and effects, accelerated rendering and an HDV workflow that works.
Note: We have been a Cinform dealer and supporter since before they where Cineform. I think that Aspect HD is a very cool plug-in. I am amazed at what these guys can deliver with software only. But the Cineform workflow isn't for everyone either.
Getting back to Matrox. I do think your idea about them publishing a knowledgebase of issues is a good one. While their support forums offer this information, it would be beneficial to have it be in one place as a reference.
As far as compatibility with motherboards Matrox has done a great job not only publishing a pretty extensive list of approved hardware, but you can drill down for specific installation instructions including what slot to put the card in and what drivers / updates to install for the mobo & graphics card. http://www.matrox.com/video/support/rtx2/rec/computer.cfm
One of the things I'd like to stress here is the importance of buying your Matrox card from a Gold Dealer. These guys have extensive knowledge about the cards and many submit their turnkey solutions to Matrox for evaluation and testing. If you plan on using your own computer, review the specs with the dealer and they can recommend any changes or modifications that will make everything work better.
Re: New bundle - RT.X2 with Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 Upgrade by George Socka on Aug 7, 2007 at 9:51:50 pm
Up here in Toronto Canada it is hard to find a dealer with a clue. When I bought the RT2000, it came in a box with a return policy that expired when it went out the door. However, since I complain incessantly about stuff from China, maybe it is worth giving a Canadian company another try when I build the CS3 machine. Please God they keep it compatible with XP for a few years.
