Will Adobe ever want their video editing program to be taken seriously by professionals?

It's looking to me that with the 2.0 release Adobe stacks up quite well compared to the competition. Wish I could say the same about the HVX200. Take my advice and stay away from this impractical expensive concept-cam, and create your film look in post. You will thank me later.

[Eric Jurgenson] "It's looking to me that with the 2.0 release Adobe stacks up quite well compared to the competition."

I'd agree with you but for the fact that it still lacks good media management. Otherwise they put a lot of cool things in this release.

If they had put in media management and opening timelines in Audition, batch renders, and batch processing of many of the functions that can only be applied a clip at a time, it would have been a terrific release. As it is, it means hobbled workflows for many of us.



David
AllinOneFilms.com

I definitely don't want to get into an argument about DVCPro HD, but it certainly isn't a free format that any application can integrate. Apple clearly has a great relationship with panasonic and adobe has a great relationship with sony. If more users yelled for this, then I think it would make more a case for it. It's a legitimate request, it just ended up as a third party area. The only way Premiere Pro does support it is if you have a deck with HD/SDI output you can capture it in the 720p uncompressed codec using the AJA Xena HS card. Of course you don't have the compression and smaller file size, but you could use CineForm for compression with the AJA and that would solve that. I would put CineForm up against any other compressed codec.
I think it's a valid gripe, but wait til someone announces a new format at NAB and then we'll see what the next flavor people demand... HD Optical blue-ray... I'm just speculating, but if such a format were to exist and Adobe supported that and apple didn't... then what.

respectfully.
jacob

www.premiereprotraining.com
www.formikafilms.com
www.d2gfilm.com

There is no doubt about it. I have spoken with a house that does a ton of XDCam work and they feel like the format is ROCK solid. Scratches, sand, you name it, a little toothpaste and everything is all right...

jacob

www.premiereprotraining.com
www.formikafilms.com
www.d2gfilm.com

They are working in SD and they anxiously await HD!
jacob

www.premiereprotraining.com
www.formikafilms.com
www.d2gfilm.com

[Jim Jim] "If all the REAL video edting software makers like Avid and Apple can deliver platforms that can editit DVC Pro then why can't Adobe? Just seems like they still really don't give a damn."


Avid ingests DVC Pro and edits it natively? I thought it transcoded...



TimK,

Kolb Productions,
Creative Cow Host,
Author/Trainer
www.focalpress.com
www.classondemand.net

I think the "native" issue is just not as important as it seems to many at the moment.

With DVC ProHD on FCP, the idea is that you save some money by not having to have an HDSDI capable deck or computer...but DVC ProHD isn't exactly the best HD image quality attainable...8 bit only...very subsampled...constant bit rate (color correction that creates some additional information may end up causing a re-compress to get the image back under the data rate ceiling, etc.) AND with the Varicam, you actually shoot 60p all the time...the 100 Mbits/sec applies to the 60 fps stream. If you only take 24 frames per second out...that's only 40% of the pictures...40 Mbits/sec. Not that 100 Mbits is anywhere even close to uncompressed, but 40 Mbits starts to make HDV look like a contender...

Using a high quality intermediate codec is the best way to preserve the quality of your HD footage...whatever format it is. In that way, DVC ProHD is certainly supported by CineForm Prospect HD...it's far better quality than DVC ProHD when it captures from an HDSDI line in...tape format agnostic, decompressed, square pixel signal.

So I think that some are under the impression that since there is not specifically labeled "DVC ProHD codec" preset, that PPro can't handle DVC ProHD workflow...and that simply isn't the case. As a matter of fact, the Prospect workflow using HDSDI is far more industry standard than capturing DVC ProHD through FW...

So there you are...




TimK,

Kolb Productions,
Creative Cow Host,
Author/Trainer
www.focalpress.com
www.classondemand.net

[Brian SaenzDeViteri] "and since Avid runs on Quicktime, it might just be a Quicktime thing."

I assume you meant Apple (FCP).


Avid runs on quicktime.

Carl] "Avid runs on quicktime."

I don't believe so.

Upon import a QT file is converted to an Avid omf file.


.- Don't believe? Just Try to use any AVID (PC or MAC) without Quicktime installed.

It won't work

OMF is a Quicktime wrapper. FCP use quicktime native, without wrapper.

Where is your quote from?

I double checked with our experienced Post Manager, who confirmed that to his knowledge, Avid is NOT QT based, but does use QT on the Mac for display purposes. FWIW, I've been able to stop the QT process in XP, and XPressPro runs fine.

In any case, I've referred this to the COW Avid forum for their input.

Wes from Automatic Duck has replied on the Avid forum saying that Les is correct.
I love Bill Ferster but in this case . . .

LS

Larry Sherwood
Sherwood Post Production
Austin, Texas
512 219-8721
larry@sherwoodpost.com

From the Avid site


http://www.avid.com/products/xpressprohd/specs.asp#pc


"Minimum PC System Specifications for Avid Xpress Pro

Windows XP Professional with Service Pack 2
QuickTime 7.0.3
1 GB system memory minimum, 2 GB recommended for HD or high-stream count SD projects
Dual or Single 2.4 GHz Xeon processor OR Pentium 4 1.6 GHz processor OR Pentium M 1.8 GHz processor (mobile configurations)
Qualified graphics card (per model, as supported by system vendors)1
Qualified IEEE-1394 FireWire port (integrated or add-in card2 ; Mojo is not supported on notebook systems with PCMCIA cards of any kind)
40 GB or larger internal IDE drive3
DVD-ROM or DVD+RW drive"

They put QuickTime in second place of the minimum system requirements.

Again, from the Avid site:

http://www.avid.com/products/liquid/specs.asp

In the LIQUID EDITION (Formerly Pinnacle) requirements , They don't put QuickTime, not even as an optional requirement.

If the guy tells you he can fly, Will you also accept it without any doubts?

I'm asking you to try it by yourself.

Believe YOUR EYES.


C'mon, Try to run Avid without QuickTime

If he's rigth, You have nothing to loose, you'll be able to use your Avid normally and you can reinstall QuickTime later if you need it.

And I'll be wrong.



From the Avid site


http://www.avid.com/products/xpressprohd/specs.asp#pc


"Minimum PC System Specifications for Avid Xpress Pro

Windows XP Professional with Service Pack 2
QuickTime 7.0.3
1 GB system memory minimum, 2 GB recommended for HD or high-stream count SD projects
Dual or Single 2.4 GHz Xeon processor OR Pentium 4 1.6 GHz processor OR Pentium M 1.8 GHz processor (mobile configurations)
Qualified graphics card (per model, as supported by system vendors)1
Qualified IEEE-1394 FireWire port (integrated or add-in card2 ; Mojo is not supported on notebook systems with PCMCIA cards of any kind)
40 GB or larger internal IDE drive3
DVD-ROM or DVD+RW drive"

They put QuickTime in second place of the minimum system requirements.

Again, from the Avid site:

http://www.avid.com/products/liquid/specs.asp

In the LIQUID EDITION (Formerly Pinnacle) requirements , They don't put QuickTime, not even as an optional requirement.

[Carl] "If the guy tells you he can fly, Will you also accept it without any doubts?"
I know who Wes Plate is - I don't know who the heck you are.

[Carl] "I'm asking you to try it by yourself."
Be my guest - you seem to have the time.

I however, don't have the time to prove or disprove something I knew, and which has been reaffirmed by someone who knows far more than you or I. But if you happen to be right, well, then I've learned something, If both Wes Plate and I are right, then you've learned something.

[Carl] "I'm asking you to try it by yourself."
Be my guest - you seem to have the time.


.- Well, in the 10+ years I've used, installed and serviced Avid systems , both Mac and PC (For a living) I had the time to test a Lot.

Anyway, a QuickTime uninstall doesn't take much time.


[Carl] "If the guy tells you he can fly, Will you also accept it without any doubts?"
I know who Wes Plate is - I don't know who the heck you are."



.- Well, I don't know who the heck is Wes Plate, have no idea.

And , with all due respect. I don't care (nothing against him, I don't even know him, simply I don't care)

I do not take anybody's word as the absolute truth, not even mine.


I believe in FACTS.

That's a very healthy habit.

The fact is that you can't run Avid without QuickTime and anybody can try this.

These are a FACTS:

http://www.avid.com/onlineSupport/supportcontent.asp?browse=&productID=0&co...
http://www.avid.com/onlineSupport/supportcontent.asp?browse=&productID=0&co...

The AVID codecs are QuickTime codecs.

Good luck

[Carl] ".- Well, in the 10+ years I've used, installed and serviced Avid systems , both Mac and PC (For a living) I had the time to test a Lot."

[Carl] "Well, I don't know who the heck is Wes Plate, have no idea."

Perhaps this will give you an idea on why my part in this thread is over:
http://www.automaticduck.com/about_us/

well, this thread really goes nowhere, but I could add that the Avid Quicktime codecs you're talking about are there in the event you want to export video from Avid to a third party app (read: AfterEffects). They are there so you don't need to transcode the video when going from .omfi to .mov.

You said :
[Carl] "OMF is a Quicktime wrapper. FCP use quicktime native, without wrapper."

Quicktime (.mov) is itself a "wrapper" which contains streams using certain "codecs".
OMF (.omfi) is also a "wrapper" which contains streams using certain "codecs".
AVI (.avi) is also a "wrapper" which contains streams using certain "codecs".

For example, you can have a DV-encoded video stream "wrapped" inside either a Quicktime, an AVI or an OMF. But QT will not be able to read an OMF, even if it has the right codec to decode the video stream. And the "OMFI Mediafiles" folder where Avid stores its media is full of those OMFIs that QT can't read.

So how can we say that Avid runs on Quicktime?
Why Avid would not work without QT installed doesn't prove anything.

double checked with our experienced Post Manager, who confirmed that to his knowledge, Avid is NOT QT based, but does use QT on the Mac for display purposes.


.- Well, apparently, and with all due respect, the guy does not have a clue about Avids.


Here are the AVID codecs (FOR PC):

http://www.avid.com/onlineSupport/browse.asp?productID=0&topicID=404&browse...

As you can see, they are all pure breed Quickime codecs.

No video for windows codecs at all. Nowhere.

[Amit Zinman] "You know, aparently, Avid does not support the JVC HDV format, but it does not mean that people just dismiss Avid."


That may not be the Adobe-supporting statement that it's meant to be because Premiere Pro 2 doesn't do 1280x720p 24 HDV either...without the help of CineForm Aspect HD anyway.




TimK,

Kolb Productions,
Creative Cow Host,
Author/Trainer
www.focalpress.com
www.classondemand.net

[Eric Jurgenson] "Axio supports DVCPRO50 and DVCPRO HD natively with Premiere."


...that's right. Sorry, I did forget about that.

Where's Larry when you need him?


:-)




TimK,

Kolb Productions,
Creative Cow Host,
Author/Trainer
www.focalpress.com
www.classondemand.net

Well, if Matrox wants another cheerleader, I am willing to accept a long term loan of a Matrox Axio for editing HDV. I don't think it would hurt my standing as a "Premiere Pro" guy. But in the meantime, I will spend my time being a cheerleader for Cineform instead.