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denoise and sharpen before or after RESOLVE

COW Forums : DaVinci Resolve

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Tom Durhamdenoise and sharpen before or after RESOLVE
by on Jun 1, 2011 at 5:51:53 am

Hey Folks,

I'm wrapping up an indie feature. Shot on 7D and Varicam. Will be colored on big new mac-based resolve system. FCP timeline is ProRes 4444 1080p. (The current plan is to hand over the whole movie as a giant ProRes file (it is also packed with VFX rendered out to prores), along with and EDL so Resolve can chop it up.)

A good handful of shots need a bit of sharpening and bit of de-noising. Shockingly, the best sharpening tool I can find (and I've tried many!) is FCP's simple sharpener. I'd probably use Red Giant's denoiser.

BUT... I was wondering if the latest and greatest resolve has these tools, and if it doesn't, should I do this filtering BEFORE I hand the movie over to the colorist, or after?

Any thoughts? I am so pumped about having the project colored on such an awesome platform!

thanks!!!

-Tom





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Sascha HaberRe: denoise and sharpen before or after RESOLVE
by on Jun 1, 2011 at 6:04:36 am

I don't have a good feeling about the one giant Qt thing.
Tried that with a music video and it was lagging like hell.
You rather should use the consolidate function in FCP and export shots from the timeline, I say.
Denoising today should be handled by NeatVideo in FCP.
Then you Colorist can focus on grading.
Next month I might say something different ;-)

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Margus VollRe: denoise and sharpen before or after RESOLVE
by on Jun 1, 2011 at 6:10:28 am

If you can wait for version 8 then you get denoise that runs on cuda.

For what i have seen it seems really exiting.

--

Margus

http://iconstudios.eu


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Peter ChamberlainRe: denoise and sharpen before or after RESOLVE
by on Jun 1, 2011 at 7:35:23 am

I feel it depends on the images and available time. Sometimes its good to NR prior to grading a clip so the qualifiers are not using noisy material. It can make the keys cleaner. Then again, NR of all the material prior to grading can un-necessarily soften the image at great expense of time and quality. Sometimes a little NR in dark sections of the image can make a previously unusable shot, perfectly ok and so I have seen NR applied in pre-edit previews to decide if a 'take' or scene is usable or not. Applying NR on all the material after the grade is often done on a time vs quality vs $$ basis and you can generally you can only pick two of this set at one time.

In 8.0 you can apply NR in a node, anywhere in the node graph; and qualify just a color, luminance or masked region to apply the NR. Performance is GPU based and we have been testing 2K realtime NR on our linux machines for a while now. Even the MacPro with dual CUDA GPUs can apply real time NR at HD res.


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Mikhail PuzyrevRe: denoise and sharpen before or after RESOLVE
by on Jun 1, 2011 at 11:10:47 am

Never denoise or sharpen or VFX before grading. It kills color range. I always grade the shots for VFX guys first or ask them to wait for final version to render VFX shots. Also, often, denoise filters produce banding which will prevent You from grading the shot right way


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jake blackstoneRe: denoise and sharpen before or after RESOLVE
by on Jun 4, 2011 at 4:53:26 am

Totally wrong advice.
If you use proper tools, NR will not affect color range at all.
ALWAYS use NR BEFORE grading. Your keys will thank you and you'll be able to push your images a bit farther.
Said that, I'm a bit impartial, as I use FilmMaster, which features one of the best Degraining and NR tools in the business-Clarity. If you'd like to know what a world class NR looks like, visit an upcoming Red Users meeting on June 11th and see it for yourself. There will be a demo of FilmMaster grading Open EXR images.


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Mikhail PuzyrevRe: denoise and sharpen before or after RESOLVE
by on Jun 4, 2011 at 9:01:34 pm

Nice advertising man


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jake blackstoneRe: denoise and sharpen before or after RESOLVE
by on Jun 5, 2011 at 3:21:42 am

Oh, I see. Unless I'm singing praises to Resolve, everything otherwise is considered to be advertising? Awesome logic...
Nevertheless, if you insist, here goes the disclosure:
I'm not connected in any way to Digital Vision or Red User group. Happy now?
But you go ahead and keep spreading FUD on NR reducing the color gamut:-)

До того как давать совет, неплохо бы иметь хоть какую то практическую информацию:-)


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Sascha HaberRe: denoise and sharpen before or after RESOLVE
by on Jun 5, 2011 at 5:59:33 pm

Hasn't it been sold to some military company just for the forensic tools ? No wonder they can use a good tracker ;)

A slice of color...

DaVinci 7.1.2 OSX 10.6.7
MacPro 5.1 2x 2,4 24GB
RAID0 8TB eSata 6TB
GTX 285 / GT 120
Extreme 3D+ WAVE

http://www.saschahaber.com


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jake blackstoneRe: denoise and sharpen before or after RESOLVE
by on Jun 8, 2011 at 12:40:13 am

As far as I know, no, they weren't sold to a military company. They did buy a military company- Image Systems and took that name for the whole company. I guess, if the direction of post business continues unchanged, pretty soon every company will be looking for a different type of business. Not every company feels, that giving away their software to sell some hardware is a business with great future. Assimilate is next. Lustre is discontinued already. Pretty soon the choice will be Resolve or a free Resolve. Well, at least on a Mac...
But for the record, FilmMaster's planar tracking leaves a lot to be desired. Not in the same league as the one in Lustre or Resolve.


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Sascha HaberRe: denoise and sharpen before or after RESOLVE
by on Jun 8, 2011 at 11:03:30 am

Film-master excels in versatility.
Everyone else is now struggling to serve an excellent multi layer multi version timeline, they have it.
Also the repair tools are great.
But all in all I couldn't get into it that much...its a little like Avid.
Lustre is down ? I heard its integrated into that 2012 all in one Flame-Smoke-Lustre suite on Linux only ?
Well, we will see at IBC.

A slice of color...

DaVinci 7.1.2 OSX 10.6.7
MacPro 5.1 2x 2,4 24GB
RAID0 8TB eSata 6TB
GTX 285 / GT 120
Extreme 3D+ WAVE

http://www.saschahaber.com


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Andy WinterRe: denoise and sharpen before or after RESOLVE
by on Jun 1, 2011 at 12:47:22 pm

i find the best tool for sharpening is inside resolve! before i had resolve i also did it in fcp but i found out that the blur tool used negativ also does a really nice job in sharpening. and it is realtime and node based, so sharpening only the eyes of an actor or face with a moving, soft power-window does give me nice results.
(the only problem can occur if the material is really grainy, then you cant do much because of the sharpening of the grain)

i do also hope in v8 the denoiser can make my job easier in the near future... :)


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Tom DurhamRe: denoise and sharpen before or after RESOLVE
by on Jun 1, 2011 at 1:58:16 pm

Thanks so much gents!!! The more I learn about this coloring process the more pumped I get. Sounds like Resolve 8 may be able to do my sharpening and nr for me... which seems ideal.

Couple last finishing questions...

My FCP timeline is in ProRes 4444. Should I have the colorist give me ProRes as my super final final video file? And then from there go to MXF (for very small theatrical run in digital theaters), whatever formats tv stations want (will probably air on syfy), and of course DVD and BluRay... Or should I get a different format from the colorist as my super duper master file? Or should my FCP timeline itself be in a different format?

I'm guessing we'll be mastering to the rec 709 spec... Are there things I should know about that spec? Different versions of it for different exhibition purposes?

When I did a test in a nice digital theater (just plugged in DVI to the giant projector) it looked amazing. Can't wait to see what it looks like after it goes thru resolve.

thanks again,

Tom

PS. What's a coda in resolve? :)





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Charles HaineRe: denoise and sharpen before or after RESOLVE
by on Jun 2, 2011 at 2:55:31 am

For right now, I would say get a ProRes444 back from your Colorist and call that your "master" file from which to make MXF, Blu-Ray, and tape formats for the networks.

There are less compressed codecs than ProRes Quattro (as the kids call it), such as Kona or even Uncompressed, but none of them will play on most Mac Pro edit machines (due to hard drive speed as much as processor speed), so it'll be very hard to QC (Quality Control) the grade.

After all, you'll want to watch the project in realtime after it's delivered to make sure it all came out okay.

In the meantime, regarding your "whats the coda" question, did you mean codec or CUDA?

Cuda is technology by NVIDIA that makes GPU accelerated processing easier; it's the tech that was required for Resolve 7 and allowed Resolve on a mac to begin with. However, due to OpenCL (we think) Resolve 8 won't require CUDA enabled NVIDIA cards and wll run on ATI as well.

If it was Codec, there is no native Codec for Da Vinci Resolve; it'll read and write anything your Mac can read or write.

Also, I agree with everyone else; grade first, noise reduction later. The only exception might be something like a telecine suite where you have footage coming directly from a TK that you want to pipe through a hardware NR box before heading into your color corrector, but other than that, always grade first.

good luck,
Charles

Charles Haine
Colorist, Professor
ColorCorrection.Com


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Tom DurhamRe: denoise and sharpen before or after RESOLVE
by on Jun 3, 2011 at 3:39:00 am

Great advice everyone. THANKS VERY MUCH!!!





================================================
YOU can help save TimeSpace. Join the Chronos Protectorate!

http://www.95ers.com
http://www.SpaceAceMedia.com


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Margus VollRe: denoise and sharpen before or after RESOLVE
by on Jun 3, 2011 at 10:49:08 am

One have to know that ATI has its limitations in speed and resolution.

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http://iconstudios.eu


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David EaksRe: denoise and sharpen before or after RESOLVE
by on Jun 4, 2011 at 11:05:43 am

If I have a scene that needs Noise Reduction I always do it first thing when starting the edit, using NEAT Video in FCP (excellent results with both NR and sharpening). Once I'm satisfied I'll turn off the effect, finish editing, turn the effect back on, render and go from there.

From my research of this subject, I was under the impression the NR should always be done first. So that's what I do.


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Jose LomeñaRe: denoise and sharpen before or after RESOLVE
by on Jun 8, 2011 at 9:00:30 am

I do the same.

Firstly denoise, second color correct.

The process of color correcting with an image without any noise is impressive. I didn't notice any banding or any artifact if I adjust it carefully with prores 4444 4k.

Tracking and qualifiers are much better without noise.

But this is only an opinion from my experience.

saludos


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