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Color Controller options

COW Forums : DaVinci Resolve

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Ronald AndersonColor Controller options
by on Nov 17, 2010 at 2:51:58 am

I have been using a friend's Davinci Control panels on the Resolve, and they are absolutely superb.
That being said, I would love to be able to utilize my JLCooper CX controller with the Resolve software as well. I find the JLCooper to be much more functional that the Tangent Wave, but both probably fall short with all of the deep menus on Resolve. I, like many others, are trying to find ways to run Resolve while keeping the ability to use Apple Color on the same MAC.


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Ola Haldor VollRe: Color Controller options
by on Nov 17, 2010 at 8:35:55 am

Under NAB they said they're going to make JL Cooper support Resolve. It's coming. But nobody knows when. BMD probably have an idea, but I understand it if they're keeping the cards for themselves at the moment, as with the MC Color.. We just gotta sit tight and wait. Suddenly we wake up one day and have these great news served on a silver plate!


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Robert HoullahanRe: Color Controller options
by on Nov 17, 2010 at 5:44:12 pm

I am also hoping for a MC-Color update for Resolve and I have sent several emails to Avid/Euphonix with no reply. Maybe a post on the CML is in order.

-Rob-

Robert Houllahan
Director / Colorist
Cinelab Inc.
http://www.cinelab.com

Mackbook Pro


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Ola Haldor VollRe: Color Controller options
by on Nov 17, 2010 at 10:27:06 pm

CML?

I've emailed Avid/Euphonix too. I remember just after NAB they answered happily, but now they're all silent. If they cannot at least answer us, I'm thinking something along the lines of not doing business with them. What about support when I really need it? They should at least say "Sorry, we're working on it but there's no definite date yet".


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Robert HoullahanRe: Color Controller options
by on Nov 18, 2010 at 12:32:36 am

Avid is stoopid sometimes they are almost like the government or something.

Hey we are avid and we bought this company which has a bunch of good products, let's sit on them and have a bunch of meetings and then do nothing for a while.

-Rob-

Robert Houllahan
Director / Colorist
Cinelab Inc.
http://www.cinelab.com

Mackbook Pro


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Robert HoullahanRe: Color Controller options
by on Nov 18, 2010 at 2:45:12 am

OK

I can be a publicly sarcastic bastard. Sometimes this works and here is Avid's response to my sarcastic flogging.

"Third parties can integrate MC Color themselves through an API that is
available upon request. For example, smoke, REDCINE-X, etc. have all done
the integration work themselves."

That was not so bad right? They could even have put that in an email or something.

They suggested that I use my sarcasm on BMD ;-)

-Rob-

Robert Houllahan
Director / Colorist
Cinelab Inc.
http://www.cinelab.com

Mackbook Pro


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Jay MoffatRe: Color Controller options
by on Nov 18, 2010 at 9:52:18 am

Avid's response is pretty much the exact opposite of what BMD have said. BMD say that they release the resolve api and avid develops... so basically this implies nothing is happening...if this is the case, hopefully the BMD business model is based on selling software units and not their control surface...and we see some development soon. Not holding my breath...


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Arthur PuigHow realisitc is 30K for the DaVinci panels?
by on Nov 18, 2010 at 5:25:13 am

I have absolutely no doubt the DaVinci panels are superb, but, realisitically, aren't they a bit overpriced?
Specially in this economy where is hard to sell even on eBay, we're talking about a panel that costs more than an average car.
Could it really attract more clients to the point of paying itsel offf, and how much a price increase should you do if you offer that?


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Uli PlankRe: How realisitc is 30K for the DaVinci panels?
by on Nov 18, 2010 at 7:22:36 am

I don't believe that's how BM is thinking. They are probably expecting very low numbers of sales for the big panels just like for the Linux version, and low numbers equal high prices in modern production.

The Mac version will be selling in high volume, and even the supported Wave is not yet very well supported. BM already promised to improve that, and the Mac port needs some final touches too, as we all know. So, the explanation might just be limited human resources.

We can, of course, make up conspiracy theories about Avid not supporting BM in MC5, so BM is not supporting the panels Avid bought…

Director of the Institute of Media Research (IMF) at Braunschweig University of Arts


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Arthur PuigRe: How realisitc is 30K for the DaVinci panels?
by on Nov 18, 2010 at 12:02:38 pm

You would expect low number of sales if the item are high priced, not the other way around I believe, if Resolve for Mac would be $30K they will also expect low numbers of sales, now, why are the panels so high priced, that's another story, inherited inventory probably? They have to come down at some point.

Regarding Avid, I don't know why they haven't realized yet that they need to open up to third party video cards, like a Kona or BM, however, I just discovered that Pro Tools does PCIe video out only through a BlackMagic card, go figure.

There's a post where Grant complains why Smoke uses a Kona instead of BM, when at the same time Resolve doesn't support Kona, they said it will eventually, now the rumors are don't hold your breath, I'll believe it when I see it.

Going back to the panels, if I have to choose between buying a Prius or the panels, I think I'll go for the Prius and stick with the Wave.


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Robert HoullahanRe: How realisitc is 30K for the DaVinci panels?
by on Nov 18, 2010 at 4:14:32 pm

I think the $30K is pretty reasonable for the Resolve panels IMO a Blackboard for the Baselight is about $45K and the Tangent CP series panels are $20K+ depending on how many you get.

I run a set of DaVinci network panels in Telecine every day and if you have never used a system like that you may not know what you are missing but if you have you would never want to go back to the slog of using a mouse or tablet. even the three low end panels (Wave, MC, JL) are kind of slow poke in comparison.

I think a Resolve OSX system with Resolve panels is a great bargain compared to the other systems in it's price/performance class. I know that the current panels are an all new design based on the Impresario panels (which were ethernet I believe) so the "old stock" idea is not correct. I think it comes down to the fact that Colorist work is a special niche and not something like Editorial and they are not going to sell 10K+ sets of panels maybe only hundreds.

-Rob-

Robert Houllahan
Director / Colorist
Cinelab Inc.
http://www.cinelab.com

Mackbook Pro


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Joseph OwensRe: How realisitc is 30K for the DaVinci panels?
by on Nov 18, 2010 at 6:09:40 pm

"I have absolutely no doubt the DaVinci panels are superb, but, realisitically (sic), aren't they a bit overpriced?"

Without intentionally dashing out to step on toes... not really, no, they aren't. They used to be a LOT more than that. And precision milled out of solid aircraft aluminium, with balls more spherical than competition billiards. Realistically, colorgrade should be precision work... disagree? At certain budget levels, sure, go for the plastic. But if its a prime-time series with a million-dollar budget for color alone... better get the tools for that, but you know, choose an appropriate level. If you're working on a short 210 event-something with a budget of $5K, a couple of hours of white balancing doesn't require unlimited tiers of node-based power windows with planar three-dimensional matte tracking... which you might otherwise find useful for coping with a 750-or-so event episode in 8 hours or less for a dramatic prime-time series... or a three x14-hour day session to finish the latest Saatchi&Saatchi 'Chanel :30' with a room full of agency-types (but those days are probably gone).

Just a guy eking out a living on the edge of the tundra shoveling snow... yours truly,

jPo

PS If anybody would be interested in trading a set of 3 Tangent 200 series panels (T/S, B/K and K) for a new Resolve panel (say, someone developing the driver software for the Tangents ;-)), I'm game. I know the Resolve panel won't drive Apple COLOR, but frankly I'd either just order another Wave or swap the one I've got back and forth between systems. Horses for courses... the distilled wisdom of the CML.

You mean "Old Ben"? Ben Kenobi?


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Arthur PuigRe: How realisitc is 30K for the DaVinci panels?
by on Nov 18, 2010 at 8:17:40 pm

You're both probably right, however, I also think it's a matter of how you see it also. Yes, they used to be way more expensive, but this business model changed drastically, in which BM plays a huge part in the process, ironically.

In case of a telecine bay, it's a different kind of animal, one which I believe with new digital technology is surely seeing a reduction in workload.

For the small boutique guy obviously is out of the question, and I thank BM for the option to use the Wave. But even for mid size to large they're not that keen of spending that money, I cannot reveal the name of the company where I work, but when I pitched the idea of spending 30K on panels they look at me like if I was on drugs, and this place owns a Pablo with theater room in the middle of Hollywood.

Wish there would be something in between, I wouldn't mind spending 15k on the three tangents if I could use them.


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Simon AstburyRe: How realisitc is 30K for the DaVinci panels?
by on Nov 26, 2010 at 4:00:03 pm

Arthur just to re-iterate what other posters have said, the panels are made from expensive materials in small numbers, that's why they are expensive. As to getting the sales to cover the cost, let me turn that around, how happy would a client be sitting in your room, paying $200 per hour with you grading their precious show on a plastic panel which can't access a great many of the features of the software. I don't know about you but in an average month I turn over more than enough to buy a Resolve panel.

I think we need to keep a perspective on things, hardware is not cheap. You are paying for a very high spec piece of kit and therefore it is not cheap. I'm sure BM have cut their margin to the bone on the panels. I was told by a manufacturer who knew about these things, that the old 2k panels cost $30k to make. I wouldn't mind betting that the new Resolve panels costs at least $20k to make.


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Craig HarrisRe: How realisitc is 30K for the DaVinci panels?
by on Nov 29, 2010 at 11:21:36 pm

I agree.
Although I can't afford the panel yet, my plan is to invest in one for my company.

Asking a question about how realistic the price of a DaVinci panel is like asking how realistic the price for a Porsche or Ferreri is. Can you get from point A to point B with other vehicles? Yes. But not as fast and in with as much style.

You get what you pay for.


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Arthur PuigRe: How realisitc is 30K for the DaVinci panels?
by on Dec 12, 2010 at 7:55:15 am

[Simon Astbury] "how happy would a client be sitting in your room, paying $200 per hour with you grading their precious show on a plastic panel which can't access a great many of the features of the software"

If you do that so that clients can be happier you're wasting your money. Clients couldn't care less about what panels you're using, let's be realistic, most don't even care what software you're using. And as far as functions only available on the DaVInci panels, the ones that mattered are available now in the menu.
Not that the panels aren't great, I do think they are overpriced, but its' Blackmagic, I'm afraid of shelling out 30K when next year could be going for half price.

And regarding the Porsce and Ferrari, I think they are cheesy cars, far from classy, all they became now is a symbol for people trying to show off or pretend status, new money mostly, and in desperate need of approval.


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Darin WooldridgeRe: How realisitc is 30K for the DaVinci panels?
by on Dec 12, 2010 at 7:46:19 pm

I haven't got much time on the new panels. At first touch they did not have the heavy nice feeling I'm familiar with .. I'm still in love with the OG davinci resolve panels. They just feel better.
I'm trying to get some of my engineer friends to port the old panels to the mac version.
Just a dream

Now that being said, if i had the cash and could afford the new panels I would have them. I'm sure with time they would grow on me.. The difference between the wave panels is not even worth talking about.. No brainer. The wave helps but I can say from experience it's not even close to using the real tools.

For my home hobby set up the wave works, barely. For a pro set up that I expect to bill at between 400 and 1000 per hour I would say you must spend the cash for the panels and the linex version.

I have been trying to get black magic to let me demo the panels to do a real review on the product and show the advantages of using the tools as they were designed to use .
No luck.

I will continue to use the old resolve panels at the office and the wave, g13 and wacom at the home..

Darin Wooldridge
Colorist / Technical Strategist
818-653-3918-cell
dwooldridge@mac.com
check me out at http://www.facebook.com/pages/Davinci-Resolve-Colorist/117363011609028?ref=....


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Jack TunnicliffeRe: How realisitc is 30K for the DaVinci panels?
by on Jan 5, 2011 at 8:47:43 pm

I bit the bullet and ordered the big panels for $29,000. I've just completed 10 episodes of a new tv series on a Wave panel and now realize what I've been missing. I had the opportunity to spend a couple of days on the big panels and everything is there on the surface. I'm so tired of navigating to the top (new 7.1 software) then going down into nodes or windows or worse yet down to qualify keys. With the big panels hit a button to add a node with a circular window attached and save two steps. There are tons of time saving advantages. It seems to take me longer to grade a show in Davinci with a Wave controller than it did in Color with Cooper controls and I know I'm mousing way too much. Anyway, I'll report again a month down the road but for now this is where I'm headed.

Jack Tunnicliffe
Java Post



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Vladimir KucherovRe: How realisitc is 30K for the DaVinci panels?
by on Jan 5, 2011 at 9:16:02 pm

I agree, the Wave on Color was definitely very efficient. Resolve's use of it is getting better but still not quite there.

I would say that for everyone who can't afford the Resolve Panels yet, defintely get the G20 keypad. You get 20 some always there keys for things you need ALL the time. It's definitely a must.

Jack, if you at all feel like it I'd love to see a detailed review of the Resolve panels at some point, maybe even with shiny pictures?


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Ola Haldor VollRe: How realisitc is 30K for the DaVinci panels?
by on Jan 5, 2011 at 9:47:14 pm

You son of a.. richman. :-) Would love to see photos or video of your setup in action!


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Jack TunnicliffeRe: How realisitc is 30K for the DaVinci panels?
by on Jan 5, 2011 at 10:17:32 pm

Haha! Yes, a lot of money, but after you've used them there's no going back I'm afraid. I will definitely post some photos or video when installation is complete.

Jack Tunnicliffe
Java Post Production



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