With 8.1.1 BM has just thrown a very destructive blow to the entire C-grading business

I don't see it...

1. Who wants to work on a single GPU machine? Not me for one...

2. While software NR can be better it is slow as hell and sometimes you need to fix something and on a deadline.

3. Lite is basically a free assist station for the full version.

4. I think BMD will have more pro features in the full version soon, things like OFX plugin support, etc.

5. I would not trade Resolve 8 for Speed Grade or Scratch it is a great vary stable color app and keeps getting better.

6. Not everyone wants to be a colorist, hardly anyone who used FCP regularly ever even opened Color.

-Rob-

Robert Houllahan
Director / Colorist
Cinelab Inc.
http://www.cinelab.com

MAHC-PRO 6-Core 3X GTX285 20Tb SAS Wave Panel Panny 11UK SDI Plasma.

Nothing but conjectures, misinformation, general lack of knowledge and experience. Sorry, nothing personal, but you should try sometimes to just listen and be a little less partisan and at least try to see the bigger picture...

I just thought this meme should be out there. In all of this I am trying to defend high standards and living wages for all involved in the industry - from software developers to indy colorists to DPs.

Often young artists do not see the big business picture - democratization is not always a good thing when pushed too far (the opposite, pushed too far is not good either - but we are at little risk of that these days.)

It's great that many people have a chance to get in the business, less great if there is no business left on the other side.

Markets inevitably change, and that item you paid for a few months earlier frequently is available for cheaper just a few months after you bought it; it's part of life. I don't regret the $1k we paid for Da Vinci earlier in the year; we've already booked enough work with it to have paid for itself.

From where I'm sitting this is a brilliant move on Da Vinci's part.

Real coloring facilities that are billing regularly will end up paying the $1k for multiple GPU's or the RED Rocket card without batting an eye; it's the best deal in color grading. And then they'll have a few lite stations for prepping projects or grading small 7d jobs that come through.

The folks that lite will appeal too were never likely to pay the $1k in the first place; it just didn't make sense for them to do so, since they aren't likely billing their grading on to clients (as it would be hard to do without GPUs and RED Rockets). So why give it to them?

It gives thousands of film students, DPs, editors, directors and especially wannabe colorist an opportunity to learn the tools of color grading. The entire next wave of colorists will be learning on Da Vinci for free. And while most won't stick with it long enough, some real artists will come out of it. And they will have a lot of Da Vinci loyalty built in because it's the system they have on their home machine, that they learned on and know intimately, and when they book jobs at bigger facilities they'll expect Da Vinci to be there.

It's one of the major ways that FCP built market share vs. Avid; FCP was functionally free (through lax security and heavy student discounts), and it built a market of up and coming editors and directors who knew it and expected it when they did real jobs.

Secondly, Da Vinci is building their brand. I know to old school folks it feels like a dissolution of a hallowed name, but you have to remember that many, many producers don't know a baselight from a pogle. Most clients hiring colorist because they like that colorists work, or as part of a package deal, and for those clients, Da Vinci is a brand they've heard of that means "color," and by giving away Lite for free, Da Vinci is going to increase that direct connection for clients between "color grading" and "da Vinci." I've been teaching film for 5 years, and 5 years ago, 1 student in 20 had heard of da Vinci, and now they all have. It's a hugely powerful marketing tool for them, with little to no lost revenue (since, of course, those people using lite wouldn't have bought it anyway).

That's a powerful thing for a brand to do.

I think these guys are being absolutely brilliant.

Rates are going to come down (and, let's face it, already have) not because the software costs are decreasing, but because hardware costs are decreasing, and that's nobody's fault, it's a natural consequence of computer technology increasing. Might as well blame Moore's Law.

But in the end, they'll sell more $1k license's, and more panels, because of this, and it'll be for the best for our industry.

http://www.dirtyrobber.com

The globe is going through a remarkable reorganization, again. The digitization of everything including how effortlessly I am relaying these words to the reader.
Color correctors have been digitized along with cameras making the marginal cost of copy of Resolve very close to zero.
It is exciting to see the freedom this gives while also frightening to see the structure it destroyed. My hunch is that the combination of personality, artistry and determination will still play a large part in the success of a colorist. The current world capitals still employ the majority of the busiest but that is also changing.

We are in the opposite of a "rut" as a group.

Dave Pickett
Colorist
Jam Edit - Atlanta
http://www.jamedit.com
http://www.davepickett.com

you are of course assuming they have money and are impressed by stuff like that. in south africa the average rate for grading is about 1/4 of in america so most client either don't bother grading or just try and squeeze you to do the job for next to nothing. i found a work around. they give me the drive then bugger off after we chat about what they need done and how much time they can afford. i do the job on my own according to my schedule of prioriities (real jobs with money get first place) and we all win. they get the job done for the amount they can afford. i get tons of work and don't have to entertain clients so my expenses are further reduced. no fancy edit suite with internet and cappuccino. just good old fashioned honest grading.

Panels aside, I don't think that BMD is focused exclusively on the traditional color correction market with Resolve.

Resolve's low $1k license price has sold a lot of Decklink cards. I myself shelved a perfectly good Kona to install a Decklink with my Resolve system last fall, and I imagine many others here have done the same.

Everyone here is focused on the unlimited nodes in Lite, but there are three major factors at play here -- unlimited nodes, cross-platform compatibility, and DNxHD MXF support -- and I think they all work together.

With MC6 now supporting Open I/O, BMD is using Resolve Lite to give every Avid editor a fully-functional, free color grading system that works with their NLE if they only buy a Decklink for their box instead of an AJA, a Matrox, or Avid's own DX hardware.

They are selling Resolve to editors in a box labeled "Decklink."

No other capture card vendor has a value prop like this. It's a brilliant move.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events

"you can go into the primaries of your monitor via a serial cable"

where can I find more information about this? I have a PF series display.

Garage band and pro tools LE did not destroy pro sound, cheap shake / after effects did not destroy pro gfx.

Resolve lite will not destroy pro color grading.

It will however make it very difficult for the middle end post facilities, when they have to compete with cheap boutiques & freelancer who have gone into business for themselves.

But, yes it will drive rates down. Just like FCP drove editor rates down. But color already did that.

Joseph Mastantuono
http://www.goodpost.net
Color Grading & Post Production Consulting

All very amusing. I could cry.

So having been twisting dials for over three decades, I have seen some changes. The trend has generally been more for less. Yes I bought into... or maybe invested ... in assisting this in some respects by getting into Final Touch. Which now is part of FCX as an auto-grade/auto-match plugin. So what?

There are still thousands of editors out there who just want an "auto-look" button and *grading* software will never be for them. I heard some 'woo-hooing' out my door (with this announcement) that Resolve Lite 'doesn't suck anymore'... However, I'm still puzzled by what that means. Like many, or maybe the vast majority, I am one of those FCP users that never used either Motion or Soundtrack Pro, but I'd hasten to add FWIW that I'm getting fed up with DVD Studio Pro, but still use LiveType. (I really don't "get" Apple, either, in some respects.)

Little-d daVinci is gone... we need to move on. The more I use Resolve, the better it gets -- but is it the software? Debatable. However, as far as ruining the business model goes, I see this about every 5 years. Surf or die, was the message from Stephen St. Croix decades ago. Where there is no money, there never was a market, and where there is no talent, there is also no opportunity. The situation now is that there is so much chaos and confusion (co-opted democracy becoming anarchy) that if you know *anything* (for sure) you have a leg up on your nearest competitor.

Reductio ad absurdum, there'd be robots flying all the airliners by now... and nothing would ever go wrong. And won't it be entertaining when the machines completely take over and do everything for free even without our asking them to? Awhile ago, I took a cinematographer's observation to heart that 'the only sin we can commit is boredom', so that's my real fight.

jPo

You mean "Old Ben"? Ben Kenobi?

Kim, could you please PM me your contact details. I have a few things I would appreciate your input on.
thanks, Peter

The only thing that happens is that standards are dropping and people who would have considered going to a colorist now pay overtime to the editor who has a new free plugin.
Or they just ask him to do it for free because he didn't payed anything either.

Its not good to throw niche software away for free.
They should stop selling it solo then and bundle it with the panel for 10K.
End of story.

A slice of color...

DaVinci 8.0.1 OSX 10.7
MacPro 5.1 2x2,4 24GB
RAID0 8TB eSata 6TB
GTX 470 / GT 120
Extreme 3D+ WAVE

http://www.saschahaber.com

Seriously.. I wonder how many people would sign a pre-order (market test) of offering Resolve + Panel for around 10k, and then eliminating an unlimited free version.

At the moment, to be honest, If I was going to throw down around 40k, I might as well shell out a bit more for a system that is a bit more elitist so I dont have to explain the value of the Resolve when clients start asking questions.

But yes, all of that aside, its leveled the playing field and will create a ton more colorists, so there will be as many colorists as editors or aspiring directors or actors, which will be really cool.

i think that what kim is saying should be pretty explanatory to blackmagic to what people think now about resolve :

No money available =Buy Resolve super cheap
Money available = Buy Baselight

well off course this is incredibly wrong statement , because resolve can totally be considered at the same level of baselight if surrounded by the proper hardware : Resolve Panel , 4GPU etc...(the biggest blockbusters Movie on earth are graded on Resolve on Linux systems )

so seems that this all "" For free"" or "1K price" thing...now people are associating in their mind that davinci is not worth to spend money on ... and if you have money "spend it on a baselight" ...

off course i believe the opposite (i spent my 50K or so on a Resolve) , but i think that blackmagic should consider that people out there are already considering resolve as a """if you have no money "" alternative ...

my 2 cents

g

Davinci Resolve Control Surface
MacPro
Cubix desktop 4
2 Red Rockets
GTX470+GTX470+GTX285
24GB RAM
HP Dreamcolor
Panasonic 58PF Plasma

Kim all you say have no point because you consider resolve the product for the cheap facilities and baselight and nucoda (not sure why you don't mention Lustre ) for the biggest jobs....
that i not rue ,

do you understand that the biggest hollywood blockbusters movie are graded by company 3 on a davinci resolve ???

so assuming that resolve is for the smaller jobs , have no point in this discussion , but certainly prove what is happening : resolve "value" declassed

g

Davinci Resolve Control Surface
MacPro
Cubix desktop 4
2 Red Rockets
GTX470+GTX470+GTX285
24GB RAM
HP Dreamcolor
Panasonic 58PF Plasma

You can grade Red with 1080p output on a Mac with one GPU no issues at all. 1080p output is 99% of gigs.

i would love to know how many nodes you can use on a 4k job with a standard mac set up. what frame rate can be achieved for playback? i've seen some systems that can barely cope with 4 nodes when using 1080 p. i'm not saying it can't be done but the whole idea of having a super duper high end system is to get real time performance with unlimited nodes....

funny how real time playback isn't an issue all of a sudden. i can remember the cries and complaining when people couldn't coax real time playback out of color. many even jumped ship to davinci because there was "no rendering required". we all know that's not the case.

i was talking about digital intermediate work. 2k and 4 k. 1080p is practically offline for most high end jobs nowadays. you may as well use pro res in Color then!

kim ,
you are keep sustaining wrong theories :

even on the biggest Movie Job , the resolve session would always be 2K ,never 4K (4K SDI monitoring don't exist ) , so if a 4K file is requested as an output , resolve would switch to 4K only on rendering ...

so at maximum 2K session is used , and 2K 16/9 is "juts a bitter more" than HD...

g

Davinci Resolve Control Surface
MacPro
Cubix desktop 4
2 Red Rockets
GTX470+GTX470+GTX285
24GB RAM
HP Dreamcolor
Panasonic 58PF Plasma