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RED Announcement

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Zachary MarshRED Announcement
by on Nov 1, 2009 at 11:01:55 pm

RED Oct. 30th Announcement

After reading the latest announcement from RED I've had some major revelations that I'd like to share with everyone. After the announcement, there was a general consensus among those who wanted a Scarlet that, yes, they will want a Scarlet but why do they feel like they are getting dicked around with? Well, there's a lot of reasons. Let's look at a few of them.

Release Schedule:

Summer 2008 (Possibly Earlier) - Here comes the announcement of a 3k (resolution) Camera for around $3,000. Considering that this shoots higher resolution than 32mm film (around 2k resolution) it was a BIG deal. The common slogan was "3k for $3k!" and it was being paraded around. It would ship early 2009 (Jan-Apr. estimated)

Fall 2008 - Instead of releasing the camera, they announce they are changing the specs of all the camera's and implement a really cool, revolutionary way to buy your equipment. Modular. Great, but the camera is pushed back six months for release. The fixed lens camera is $3750 -- It's still the 3k for 3k deal, but it gives you the additional add-ons to have you read to shoot immediately. Camera's should start releasing summer 2009.

Later in Fall 2008 - New specs and prices are released. Most don't consider this a huge change from before as everything is modular. But essentially the same.

Summer 2009 - We haven't heard anything for a while. People are nervous. A statement is released saying they are being slow to release the camera's because their manufacturers dropped, went out of business, and the people at RED are working less hours (expected because of the economy). They said this would be a 2-3 month delay, not bad.

Now, 2-3 months later or more - We are told that the Scarlet specs have changed AGAIN, that the price is going to go up (we don't know how much except that the camera is better than before so it makes sense for a price raise). Also, there's no announcement as to the release of the Scarlet. All the attention is on the EPIC (their $28,000 camera) which is going through beta and won't release for several more months officially, except to loyal RED customers, who will be working through the Beta and determining when it will be finished. Assuming the Scarlet goes through a similar process, it may be another 6 months before we see a Scarlet. However, this could be a false assumption and we may see one at any moment. RED isn't telling us much. Also, with the announcement we learn that there will be ANOTHER announcement at the end of November...How about they actually release something and stop making announcements?

So those who want a Scarlet feel like they are an afterthought now, instead of really part of the game.

The company uses the phrase "Specifications, prices and delivery dates are subject to change. Count on it." And they have hidden behind this several times now. Many people have saved up and postponed other purchases to get this camera based on the rough idea they'd have it within 6 months after the announced date. People expect delays. Then the company changes their mind, scraps the product and makes a new one, and pushes to release that instead. When people complain, they throw this sentence at them and tell them they shouldn't have expected anything. What kind of business model is that? Upset because you made a SLOGAN, a major announcement, then didn't even remotely stick to it on any ground?

Many Scarlet users still wish they had the original Scarlet. It could be released, they could be shooting professional quality videos, and they could be rolling with it. Then the new products could've come along and they could've chosen to upgrade or not. But right now, a lot of hype was created by RED that they didn't live up to and now they are hiding.

You say "No they aren't!". Actually, they have been actively deleting posts on the forums regarding the Scarlet wanters who are upset:

"Just a reminder.. if you wanna bitch.. do it in the complaint department. If you do it here.. your threads will just be deleted so you are wasting your time." Jarred Land, who is on the RED Staff.

Another great quote from Jarred, "...if there is one thing that does piss me off, is when people keep saying "RED PROMISED THIS, RED PROMISED THAT," . We never promised anything." On this basis, RED is allowed to announce anything they want including Time Machines, a $1 iPod, or a decent video camera and we should have the same expectations of all of those products coming into actuality. Forgive us for thinking that you are actually going to attempt to accomplish something that you announce.

Shortly before this statement he writes, "We never targeted the consumer market nor ever announced intentions to target the consumer market. Scarlet, all the way down the the removable 2/3." In other words -- your excuse that a consumer used to be able to afford the announced camera and no longer can because of the price raise is bull crap because we never intended to "sell to that market", even though they made a low priced camera perfectly capable. It just wasn't "officially announced", though even if it was "officially announced" we couldn't believe it, because nothing they say can be taken as factual.

Posters on the forums who previously owned a RED One because they could afford it (around $50,000 for the camera and all it's accessories to be functional) are mocking the Scarlet users telling them they aren't professional, are whining, or simply don't understand how great RED is.

"So all this Veruca Salt-ish, "I want it now, Daddy" sentiment makes me realize just how important a bomb-proof program is...if RED released even a mildly buggy or less than perfected camera to this impatient next generation of users, they'd be opening a big can of whup-ass on themselves." Meryem Ersoz on the forums.

Everything is released less than perfect these days. Operating Systems, Blu Ray Players, External Hard Drives, everything having to do with technology. They all go through upgrades and they all go versions. To argue that they are just going to complain on this basis is silly, and yet it's used to attack these Scarlet fans.

One person whose post was deleted from the main part of the website for everyone to see and moved somewhere else gives the following examples of mistreatment:

"The Disappointed: We wanted the Scarlet that was initially promised. Stop making it so complicated.
The Apologists: They are trying it to do it right. Patience!
The Disappointed: We want them to do it right as well but we don't all the bells and whistles.
The Apologists: Too bad! Suck it up.
The Disappointed: But we want to shoot now. We are ready to suck it up. We understand it might be difficult earlier on.
The Apologists: That's what you are saying now. When you get a half finished camera, you will come here bitching and moaning.
The Disappointed: No I promise. I am just disappointed, it has been almost two years now.
The Apologists: You can't be a truly Red fan if you sound disappointed. This is an independent company. Jim is so [great]!!!
The Disappointed: We agree. We saved all our pennies doing piddly things to buy this camera.
The Apologists: Well, you should have gotten a Red fool! Like I did! Haha!
The Disappointed: It is out of my price range. I just want a camera that has a good codec and an interchangeable lens setup.
The Apologists: You clearly must be an amateur. You need more than just that. You need 5k. You need a full frame sensor. You need [this] and [that].
The Disappointed: Not really. When I need something like that I'll will rent.
The Apologists: In any case, you should appreciate the honesty of Red. They have been open with their development. No other company does that.
The Disappointed: You're right. I'm being honest too."

I have had 5 of my posts removed that had valid concerns and while they were attacked, the attacks were completely de-bunked and I was standing uncorrected -- shortly before they were deleted and I was told to stop "bitching" on the main page.

One of the forum moderators that these conversations were happening on explained why the posts were deleted. He said:

"So you are saying we are dishonest by moving your post to another thread?

Reason that many posts were removed was that they were repetitive and didn't add anything new to the discussion (FYI: there were also many "positive" comments removed)."

To which my response was, "If repetitive and not adding anything is the requirement to have a post removed than you should remove 90% of the posts on there...". Many of the positive posts, and many of the off topic posts have been left on the board. It's a significant number of the negative posts that have been removed. Also, I have yet to hear back from the moderator.

Some of the RED One owners are a little upset as well. A cut off date was establish where you could no longer trade in your Red One for the new Epic (This is similar to if you bought a Windows Vista/XP laptop in the last month before Windows 7 released, they give you a new Windows 7 at a discount or free). The cut off date was the day before the announcement. Um...Unfair at all?

So, you tell me, why are the Scarlet users feeling mistreated? If you haven't any clue, then you need to try and look at things from others perspective.

Given all of this, most of the people at RED are awesome. The users are mostly friendly (though fanboyish). I still look forward to the release of the Scarlet especially once we hear the details on the specs and the price. But as a company they should really be careful of the image they are portraying. I saw a good number of people interested in the Scarlet that no longer are interested in it. Red claims the market is "cold" right now, but it may be because they created that cold market for themselves in some ways. Obviously the economy plays a large part in it, but they don't seem to be helping themselves.


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Zachary MarshRe: RED Announcement
by on Nov 2, 2009 at 2:37:28 am

As a note -- Someone pointed out that the beta stage for the Scarlet and the Epic will be quite similar since they use many of the same components (part of their modular setup) so it may be that the beta stage won't be as long as I earlier anticipated. This is still all speculation until they actually announce what they are doing.


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Noah KadnerRe: RED Announcement
by on Nov 2, 2009 at 2:40:25 am

I think part of what has changed the Scarlet approach has been the explosion of cameras like the Canon 5D Mark II and 7D which have quickly become the low end of the market. They may feel that in order to present a more successful camera they need to move it more forward into the prosumer world of camera like the HPX170/EX1- cameras right around the $10K and under instead of the 3,000 market.

But that being said I suspect a lot of the frustration is due to RED's willingness to reveal its roadmap far in advance of delivery dates. I imagine a company like Microsoft, Apple, Sony, Canon etc would meet with a lot of similar feelings were it to reveal its product plans months/years in advance. And RED's only been at this for a few years of shipping camera- doing stuff no one's ever done before. Technology is evolving quickly and the economy happens to be in the toilet right now. So yeah it's as variable as ever...


-Noah

Check out my book: RED: The Ultimate Guide to Using the Revolutionary Camera! Unlock the secrets of 24p, HD and Final Cut Studio.
Call Box Training now featuring the Sony EX1 Guidebook, Panasonic HVX200, Canon EOS 5D Mark II, Canon 7D, and Panasonic DVX100.


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Nate WeaverRe: RED Announcement
by on Nov 2, 2009 at 6:08:17 am

Zachary,

Effectively, the 5D became your Scarlet. Inferior, yes, but Red can't really compete with $2500 and "good enough". It's a rough world out there, Red is morphing.

Go buy a 5D and start shooting.

Nate Weaver
Director/D.P., Los Angeles
http://www.nateweaver.net


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Uli PlankRe: RED Announcement
by on Nov 2, 2009 at 2:40:22 pm

RED has kicked a..es, and of course a few companies awoke. Canon has no high end to damage (like Sony does) and is quickly responding – and learning, 5D had no appeal to Europeans, now there is 7D.

There is no place for the Scarlet as initially planned any more, so it makes complete sense to me what they are doing: trying to develop a completely modular system for professionals and make it rock-solid from the start. They made history, but they'd kill themselves doing the same approach twice.

Look at ARRI, they are learning from RED now: announcing a system based on CAD renderings before it exists (even pricing), showing test footage from a sensor in an aluminum housing and even offering trade-in for the D20/21 !

RED has to manouvre carefully between those competitors, they don't sleep any more.

Regards,

Uli

Director of the Institute of Media Research (IMF) at Braunschweig University of Arts


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Steven BradfordRe: RED Announcement
by on Nov 2, 2009 at 9:11:51 pm

I think I'll start a company and announce an amazing camera, and take deposits. I'll call it the "Torpedo". With the deposit, customers will get the opportunity to buy a matching set of leather cases for the camera and accessories while they wait for eventual delivery, some day....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Tucker_Sedan

Steven Bradford
http://www.3dstereomedia.com 3D company I've worked with since 1990
http://www.seanet.com/~bradford/ my personal home page, find my greenscreen page there.
http://www.seattlefilminstitute.com the school I teach at.


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David BattistellaRe: RED Announcement
by on Nov 3, 2009 at 2:38:19 am

Zachary,

Relax.

What exactly does RED owe you?

What does any company owe you?

They own REDUSER they delete anything they want. Things have also been deleted at the COW in the past.

Relax man.

David


Peace


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Zachary MarshRe: RED Announcement
by on Nov 3, 2009 at 3:00:07 am

I'm actually doing fine. :) I just like people to be informed of what's going on and to what extent. This is the internet after all, and people blog and post thoughts, issues, and feelings all the time!

Thanks for your concern however. Take care!


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David BattistellaRe: RED Announcement
by on Nov 3, 2009 at 4:35:58 am


You are welcome.

Thanks for exclaiming.

David



Peace


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Arnie SchlisselRe: RED Announcement
by on Nov 3, 2009 at 10:58:36 pm

[Zachary Marsh] "Many people have saved up and postponed other purchases to get this camera based on the rough idea they'd have it within 6 months after the announced date. "

To paraphrase Stephen Stills, if you can't buy the camera you crave, buy the camera that's available now.

It's silly to put off a purchase you need now to wait for a product that does not yet exist. Products get delayed all the time by lots of companies for lots of reasons. You can't make your own business decisions based on product announcements.

Bottom line, if you need it now, buy it now.

[Zachary Marsh] "The company uses the phrase "Specifications, prices and delivery dates are subject to change. Count on it." And they have hidden behind this several times now."

[Zachary Marsh] " a lot of hype was created by RED that they didn't live up to"

This is not all that different from how they rolled out the Red One. There were weekly renders posted of each new mockup to whet the appetite of potential buyers. The rollout was deferred a few times, then, finally, a small number of units shipped in beta to meet a deadline.

Red One has turned out to be one big, long beta test.

I think that Red has learned a lot from their experience, but they've also been taken aback by other developments in the industry that they couldn't predict.

Scarlett may not really be able to compete with the Canon 7D, the Nikon D700, or the Panasonic Lumix. It may not really be able to compete with the Sony XDCam or Panasonic P2 cameras.

Epic, OTOH, fills a gap in the market place, much the way Red One does. So it makes sense, from a business perspective to concentrate on Epic at Scarlett's expense.

Arnie

Post production is not an afterthought!
http://www.arniepix.com/


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David BattistellaRe: RED Announcement
by on Nov 4, 2009 at 4:23:39 am

For the record.

This is what I posted in a thread just below this one.

The 5 and 7d get you the 35mm DOF.

Ergonomically, it's not a great camera for motion. You can not look through the optical viewfinder (as one example)

For Rich,
If you are a stills guy and you want some motion capabilities then then Canon is for you.

If you are a motion guy, who shows up to events, plugs in microphones and shoots single system, then you are best to stay with the EX-1 rentals.

I think a lot of these announcements are a marketing person's way of rooting out the truffle and forcing the competition to play their hands.

They have released ONE functioning camera product available to consumers since their inception and admittedly it has been a beta program since day one.

Watch closely.

Since their last announcement, which told the world that they were releasing a camera to compete with EVERY major camera system in the world, from a 2/3 inch to 617, to 28K and 3D, RED have not released another camera product. But what happened?

ARRI released their plans for digital cinema
Canon and Nikon released motion stills to preserve their markets.
Mamiya - silent
Hasselblad - silent

So the EPIC program is first because they can go back to existing customers first. Taking on the 5D and 7D market with a Scarlett is no simple task, neither is comin up with something as easy and competent as the EX-1 or EX-3.

I believe that a lot of this is a way to smoke out what others are doing to further refine where you fit in the marketplace and where there is money available from the consumer.

I love watching how RED unfolds stuff. I think that in marketing terms, they really rival NIKE. Really interesting to watch how people freak over prototypes and CAD quality renderings, but it also helps shape what they produce and where they put their resources. I do not doubt they will get there, but it's not going to happen in months.

EPIC first is a really great plan. Scarlet second, what do they do with all the parts from the trade in cameras from the EPIC program? Landfill? Repurpose?

David

Peace


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Uli PlankRe: RED Announcement
by on Nov 4, 2009 at 7:29:47 am

Hi David,

one minor correction:

"The 5 and 7d get you the 35mm DOF." The 5D is giving you stills 35mm DOF (which is more than cine) an the 7D is giving you APC (very close to 35mm cine).

And one added remark:
"Ergonomically, it's not a great camera for motion. You can not look through the optical viewfinder (as one example)" Plus, it's rolling shutter effect is heavier than the one from the RED.

Best regards,

Uli

Director of the Institute of Media Research (IMF) at Braunschweig University of Arts


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Chris BorjisRe: RED Announcement
by on Nov 4, 2009 at 5:35:39 pm

[David Battistella] "I think a lot of these announcements are a marketing person's way of rooting out the truffle and forcing the competition to play their hands."

it's so very exciting to witness....

I once heard someone say: "Sony pretends RED doesn't exist"



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Uli PlankRe: RED Announcement
by on Nov 5, 2009 at 7:21:39 am

But they support it very well in Vegas – even new "Color Science", which is not yet suported by Apple nor Adobe…

Director of the Institute of Media Research (IMF) at Braunschweig University of Arts


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Chris BorjisRe: RED Announcement - Screw you Scarlet Wanters
by on Nov 5, 2009 at 7:39:59 pm

[Uli Plank] "But they support it very well in Vegas – even new "Color Science", which is not yet suported by Apple nor Adobe…"

they meant the broadcast division.



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Steve WargoRe: RED Announcement - Screw you Scarlet Wanters
by on Nov 5, 2009 at 7:37:21 am

[Chris Borjis] "I once heard someone say: "Sony pretends RED doesn't exist""

Several years ago, when RED was first announced, the fans came running into COW forums telling us to "throw your outdated F-900s and Varicams into the ocean because RED is coming and your cameras are junk". The RED does surface several "years" later. It was pretty sad when first released. While waiting, we made millions of dollars in HD production with a product that worked, as advertised, from 2002/2003 onward. Now, in late 2009, we are still making decent money with these same cameras. Yes, technology has moved on but there is a huge base of HDCAM and DVCPRO100 machinery out there. We send out HDCAM masters every week. All of the RED stuff that is produced, still goes to HDCAM. As many problems as tape has, it's still the safest storage medium of all. You can put it on a shelf. You can hand it to someone and you can make a copy and FedEx it a friend or collegue. Anyway, if one wants uncompressed files, simply plug in a $5k CF card recorder and go to work. We may not have 4K but who needs 4K? And who can work in 4K?

When it comes right down to it, most HD is knocked down to SD for distribution anyway, on a DVD. How sad.

When I first heard of the RED undertaking, I wrote to the RED camp and suggested an entirely modular approach so that upgrades and improvements could be made to portions of the camera without disabling all of it. We learned this with cameras that had modular tape decks on them: S-VHS, MII, EdBeta, BetaSP, DV and DVCAM. With a modular system, you could exchange the sensor portion or have the choice between 4 channel sound and 8 or 12 channel sound. You could also have a choice of recording format. We have P-2, SxS, SDHC, external HDD and how many more? How about if you could slide a record module on and hit the record button? Sweet! But, the rep from RED informed me that "they" have it under control and "thanks but no thanks". Maybe they should have listened then. I had 25 years in the business but I obviously have my head in the wrong place.

The STUPIDEST thing about the RED ONE is that big plate they have on the operator side (note that I said "Operator Side") that says RED and has their serial number on it. This would have been a terrific place for a switch panel or, heaven forbid, a touch screen or snap-in LCD panel. But no, they put their control panel on the back. On the back where the battery goes. Didn't they EVER look at an actual broadcast production camera? Obviously not. Did they ever ask us? Not that I ever heard. They were so wrapped up in their sensor that they forgot to design in some proper function. The tiny cable connectors are a joke. We still laugh at those, guys.

On the positive side, the image they get is pretty darned good. Is it amazing? I don't see where District 9 looked any better than Star Wars Episode II. I see TV commercials that were shot in HD before that are now shot with RED and I'm just not blown away like I was supposed to be. Am I open minded? You bet. I was hoping that this would somehow revolutionize the industry and we could all produce amazing images at a low price. Well, the stuff is very good for the money but it's not the tidal wave of technology that the original fans extolled. Is it better than my F-900? I admit that it looks very impressive but after it's processed, downrezed and ends up on TV or in the movies, it all looks the same. We still shoot some very pretty pictures on HDCAM. Glad I didn't pitch it into the ocean as instructed.

As for the Scarlet, RED took too long and now that Canon and Nikon have it figured out, the investment in dollars won't be worth it. Can RED compete and better yet, can they recoup their investment and turn a profit? After all, they financed the R&D of the RED ONE with 4500 $1000 deposits ($ 4.5 million of your dollars) and they're not going to ever be able to pull that one off again.

The fanboys have to remember one thing: for you, it's an exciting thing to see come to market and then be able to make some great images and maybe even turn it into a profitable business or make a great looking indie film but the RED corporation has to R&D a product that is still current when it hits the market and then, it has to turn a large profit. It's not a game to them and now they are buried in competition. We have two Sony EX-1s that make a boatload of money and anyone can operate them. Add a lens package and you're in business.

The EPIC is the camera they should have developed in the first place and that whole Scarlet thing is never going to happen IMHO. It's all about money to them. It has to be. It's a BUSINESS. They underestimated the development process and how many of their vendors have closed up shop because they were not turning enough money to stay in business? It's a dog eat dog world out there and the tables are getting leveled. Their own technology may mean their demise.

Ever wonder why Canon Video and Canon DSLR don't get married? They are in fierce competition with each other.

I'm tired. Hitting the sack! Oops, I thought this was Twitter.



Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It's a dry heat!

Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck
2-Sony EX-1 HD .

Ask me how to Market Yourself using Send Out Cards


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Noah KadnerRe: RED Announcement - Screw you Scarlet Wanters
by on Nov 5, 2009 at 4:11:22 pm

Good points- but I'd say RED was not financed primarily with those deposits. It was financed out of Jim Jannard's personal fortune. When you're a billionaire several times over- you can pretty much do what you want when you want to...

Noah

Check out my book: RED: The Ultimate Guide to Using the Revolutionary Camera! Unlock the secrets of 24p, HD and Final Cut Studio.
Call Box Training now featuring the Sony EX1 Guidebook, Panasonic HVX200, Canon EOS 5D Mark II, Canon 7D, and Panasonic DVX100.


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Arnie SchlisselRe: RED Announcement - Screw you Scarlet Wanters
by on Nov 6, 2009 at 5:38:49 am

[Noah Kadner] "When you're a billionaire several times over- you can pretty much do what you want when you want to..."

Like a certain NYC mayor who just spent $90 million to get re-elected to his third term...

Arnie

Post production is not an afterthought!
http://www.arniepix.com/


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Steve WargoRe: RED Announcement - Screw you Scarlet Wanters
by on Nov 9, 2009 at 9:39:39 pm

Noah - They collected 4.5 million dollars in deposits. Jennard is a billionaire because he keeps his own money in the bank where it belongs.

The key to financial success is to invest other people's money, never your own.

Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It's a dry heat!

Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck
2-Sony EX-1 HD .

Ask me how to Market Yourself using Send Out Cards


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Uli PlankRe: RED Announcement - Screw you Scarlet Wanters
by on Nov 10, 2009 at 4:53:27 pm

"Jennard is a billionaire because he keeps his own money in the bank where it belongs. "

I'm not sure if this is still true theses days …

Director of the Institute of Media Research (IMF) at Braunschweig University of Arts


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Gary PlankenRe: RED Announcement - Screw you Scarlet Wanters
by on Nov 9, 2009 at 10:57:01 pm

Steve, loved that post on the Red and how it all ends up the same way as other finished projects. What do you think of the sony z1u.
And how do you market yourself with send out cards

Best Regards
Gary
http://underthesunfilms.com


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Michael BrennanRe: RED Announcement - Screw you Scarlet Wanters
by on Dec 1, 2009 at 12:20:23 am

The EPIC is the camera they should have developed in the first place

From an owner operator perspective I agree 100%
From a short term business perspective it is very clever for 5000 customers to underwrite the development of a product.
Not that anyone predicted sales of +5000, but victory favors the bold



Mike Brennan


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Mike SmithRe: RED Announcement - Screw you Scarlet Wanters
by on Nov 6, 2009 at 9:26:06 am

Best estimates for 35mm resolution with slow stock and good lenses is upwards of 5k / approaching 6k. Resolution of release prints in cinemas of course is lower.


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Uli PlankRe: RED Announcement - Screw you Scarlet Wanters
by on Nov 6, 2009 at 1:29:18 pm

The complex situation is that optical printing would never preserve this, so DI became the norm.
But hardly any feature film is getting finished with a DI in 4K…

Director of the Institute of Media Research (IMF) at Braunschweig University of Arts


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Mike SmithRe: RED Announcement - Screw you Scarlet Wanters
by on Nov 6, 2009 at 2:25:13 pm

Complex situation indeed. Just what is the resolution of a system relying on bayer interpolation on 3480 pixels ... or, perhaps, less for a Scarlet? (And of course many effects sequences are currently undertaken at 4k before downsampling.)

But you leave unchallenged the potentially misleading line from the original post, "Considering that this shoots higher resolution than 32mm film (around 2k resolution) it was a BIG deal", picking up only on the correction. Surprising!

None of this is new of course, so maybe it's good to let it go.
http://magazine.creativecow.net/article/the-truth-about-2k-4k-the-future-of...


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Gary WalkerRe: RED Announcement - Screw you Scarlet Wanters
by on Nov 7, 2009 at 3:01:54 pm

Don't get me wrong, I - like most people holding their 720p or 1080p cameras- was excited at the thought of more resolution for less - particularly in having an image that would service quite nicely on a cinema screen. But one thing comes to mind.. If I owned a company that was developing a new camera, irrespective of how good it was, and saw that there were cameras out right now that were getting good results, I'd have to do something to put about a bit of buyer caution. I dont want my potential customers spending their money before my product is released. The answer? Simply keep telling the public that its 'coming soon'. Even if only 40% of potential customers hold off on going with other cameras in anticipation of the Red product - I wouldve earnt myself a lot of business, and taken the money out of my competitions pocket.

Kudos Red on an excellent, albeit frustrating marketing strategy. I'm sticking with my 720p and will look forward to someone buying, reviewing and comparing the Scarlet or Epic upon its release. As for Reds mistreatment of potential customers? Suck it up, buy the camera or dont buy the camera and leave marketing and the PR to RED. If you really feel maligned, dont buy the camera - register distaste by giving your money to another company.

Power Out Production
Chester, UK
http://www.poweroutproductions.com


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colby BradyRe: RED Announcement - Screw you Scarlet Wanters
by on Nov 13, 2009 at 1:04:52 am

I understand that good things come to those who wait, but the whole scarlet empty promises nightmare has turned into a complete PR debacle in my opinion. I am interested in filming scientific time lapse purposes over a few days time, and the scarlet, with the possibility of just adding on a few battery and storage drives and setting the camera to 1 fps seemed like it could be the solution to all my problems. The HPX170 would be perfect if I could add enough battery and storage to last three days at 1fps in the field. Needless to say, I had seriously high hopes for the scarlet.

After two years of what the fan boys fail to recognize is truly false promises, I feel so mislead by this company that I think I would cut off my nose to spite my face if this camera was released tomorrow. I loath when anyone is not capable of taking responsibility for false promises and deliver nothing on them. It is bad enough not to deliver, but invalidating peoples legitimate frustrations and acting completely arrogant about it is a recipe for disaster if you ask me.

There are many thousands of music, sports, scientific, indie film amateur videographers like myself that saw the possibility of being able to afford a camera that they could own and carry everywhere to gain the skill set and comfort level necessary to test their talent as what was potentially truly revolutionary about RED. RED chickened out with the 5D, scratched the scarlet intro because they thought that the "still with video option market" would screw the "video with still option market." In my opinion, BIG MISTAKE. The wannabe indie pro film market is power by numbers, and most of these people realize the the 5D is just not going to take them from consumer to prosumer capability. Furthermore it would never offer promise of helping them on the long road to quitting the day job.

I give up on this company. I am so insulted by the lack of an honest time-line for the scarlet on October 30, that I just want to say to hell with Jim. I am not being a negative baby about it, like RED might proclaim, I am just over the false promises and arrogance.

I put an enormous amount of faith in this company and have completely lost it. EPIC won't revolutionize the industry. A technology that could have enabled amateurs to prove that they might have the ability to prove themselves, like the scarlet was supposed to do, would have.

If I appear to have a bad attitude, go ahead refuse service to me, I'm over it.


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Uli PlankRe: RED Announcement - Screw you Scarlet Wanters
by on Nov 13, 2009 at 9:21:21 am

While I can understand your disappointment, why don't you get a Canon DSLR? I've done about 40,000 shots for time-lapse purposes with Canons without a single failure…

Director of the Institute of Media Research (IMF) at Braunschweig University of Arts


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Beth SowellRe: RED Announcement - Screw you Scarlet Wanters
by on Dec 21, 2009 at 7:51:48 pm

No doubt the delays are frustrating to everyone who was waiting with baited breath for the highly touted new Scarlet. I know we've been in line ourselves hoping for the release date. It is hard for the smaller video production companies to save up for new equipment in this economy. We were thrilled to have an opportunity to get such high quality at such a great price. But it looks like, once again, the small guys will have to settle for less. I think RED needs to realize that there is a HUGE market for a lower end camera and they are missing out on a tremendous opportunity here.

Beth Sowell
Video Production Company Charlotte


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Russell LassonRe: RED Announcement - Screw you Scarlet Wanters
by on Dec 23, 2009 at 11:05:17 pm

[Beth Sowell] "But it looks like, once again, the small guys will have to settle for less. "

It actually looks like the "big guys" are going to get their cameras at the same time. Scarlet and Epic won't be shipping any more than just a couple of months apart from each other. It don't think it is discriminating at all. I think engineering next generation cameras and the down economy are to blame.

You should also realize that the current REDONE owners have already been through more than their fair share of problems with the camera. It's been worth it for most of them, but there are definitely special privileges to them for what they've already been through. If you don't currently have a REDONE, you might not be getting a Scarlet or Epic anytime soon.

I still think it's worth waiting for though! These cameras are really going to make the HD cameras on the market look like old technology. HD cameras will still have a niche in the market, but there won't be any question on which camera offers superior image quality.

-Russ

Russell Lasson
Colorist/Digital Cinema Specialist
Color Mill
Salt Lake City, UT
http://www.colormill.net


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David BattistellaRe: RED Announcement - Screw you Scarlet Wanters
by on Jan 17, 2011 at 8:25:26 am

Write a script. Make a film. Channel that agression into something positive. You don't need a RED to do that.

I believe you are misguided. RED, with the SCARLET was not creating it to solve the problems of the worlds indy film maker. It's a business.

Wake up. Make movies with what ever tool is available to you. The RED is not going to make you a filmmker, that is something you get to do all by yourself.

David

Peace



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gary adcockRe: RED Announcement - Scarlet Whiners
by on Jan 17, 2011 at 2:28:46 pm

I guess I do not get this thread, I have read all of them and all I hear is whining about how this decision has somehow ruined your future.

SO the camera has not been greenlghted, well most projects in hollywood never get greenlighted, so to claim that this has somehow taken you for a fool is a gross overstatement, as I am sure that not one person whining here has any kind of money invested in a scarlet outside of the savings in their own bank accounts

Red is not the only Digital Cinema camera that exists, IMHO, Scarlet's production was decimated by the DSLR movement and price point, which made creating the original camera un-feasable, at the least at a price point to make it profitable.

However there are a number of cameras that are capable of creating beautifully captured images, why is there only one camera in your mind, I do not understand, with acquisition tools abounding from Arri, Vision Research, Sony, Panasonic, even Canon, why there should so much discordance about one announced camera having its features and price change- granted, the price on tools like this do not usually go up that much.

It is certainly not anything new for a technology to be delivered to the marketplace extremely late and overpriced in this industry, since we tend to treat the tech in the same manner as we treat the talent- use them while they are young- then toss 'em out when they get a few wrinkles, welcome to being a filmmaker.

gary adcock
Studio37

Post and Production Workflow Consultant
Production and Post Stereographer
Chicago, IL

http://blogs.creativecow.net/24640



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