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Hard drive advice

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Joe TavolaHard drive advice
by on Jul 11, 2013 at 3:09:59 am

Been reading that 3 hardrives is the way to go with video editing and I currently have 2. Looking to buy the 3rd but which option would field the best / fastest renders? Buying an SSD 120gb and putting that as boot drive c: with programs. I currently have 500gb and 1tb WD blacks 7200rpm. So I would use the 500gb for renders and 1tb for media.

Or my worry is the ssd 120gb might be too small for all my programs and windows... Get a 500gb WD blue 7200rpm and put that as boot drive?

I guess I know the answer the ssd will or should boot faster and startup programs faster but the size might be an issue. I don't wanna spend more then $100 which is the ssd price and the WD blue is only $70... And 500gb.

Will my renders be any faster then they are now with either of those 2 options.. Right now I use c: with windows and media and renders to d:

Thanks!


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David NormanRe: Hard drive advice
by on Jul 11, 2013 at 4:32:31 am

run a render and see what pegs at 100%


if you hard disk activity is the max that your hard drive benchmarks to then your hard drives are the bottleneck....

but if you have 4+ GB of ram then most likely your edits are all loaded into ram anyways.

I would bet that your CPU is the bottleneck for performance...

SSDs are great and will improve transfer speeds and programs so it is well worth it.

My advice is to get the largest SSD you can afford.

I use 2x240gb Intel SSDs in RAID 0

Sony Vegas Movie Studio
Intel i7 3770, 32gb, 2xRAID0 Intel 240gb SSD, 2x2TB WD Green, 3x23" Samsung LCDs
http://www.SelmaBearsSoccer.com


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John RofranoRe: Hard drive advice
by on Jul 11, 2013 at 10:22:41 am

I agree with David. Adding another hard drive for renders will not affect anything because renders are rarely I/O bound. Having an SDD for a boot drive is nice but 256GB is the minimum I would use.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Joe TavolaRe: Hard drive advice
by on Jul 11, 2013 at 11:56:31 am

thanks John for clearing that up


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Dave HaynieRe: Hard drive advice
by on Jul 11, 2013 at 1:23:49 pm

[John Rofrano] "Adding another hard drive for renders will not affect anything because renders are rarely I/O bound."

Which is true, until it's not. You can run into I/O bound renders if you're using lots of video layers and lots of stills... particularly if you're using higher bitrate video (DNxHD or Cineform, DSLR video or other ~50Mb/s forms, or even the more recent AVC-Intra or RAW DSLR formats) and/or lots of very large image/photo files.

I have run into this. Then again, I've done animations with 60 layers. There are two main issues. Once is simply bandwidth: if the aggregate bitrates of your video files add up to more than the speed of your HDD, the HDD is your main and perhaps only bottleneck.

The other is seeking... the fact that your main HDD's peak speed is for a linear track, like a single video file. Put dozens of assets into a project, and you'll reduce this. Write the output to that same HDD, and it's reduced even more... so having SOMEWHERE ELSE to put the output file, even just that one thing, may boost your performance. But as John said, this IS a rare thing... most folks working primarily with video from a 2-3 camera shoot won't exceed the capacity of a single HDD.

And it's easy to tell... fire up your favorite CPU monitor. If you're running sans GPU, you really ought to see the CPU in the 90%+ performance range... I typically see 95-98% on a simple project. If you are using the GPU to help out, you may see that drop to 75%-80%. The first time I discovered I was I/O bound, I was seeing more like 20% CPU use... part of the reason my 2 minute video was taking 5+ hours to render :-)

-Dave


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Joe TavolaRe: Hard drive advice
by on Jul 12, 2013 at 1:33:44 am

Sorry so John even if using 1 drive for everything (media and renders) doesnt make a difference? Or you should definitely have 2 drives minimum (media/OS/programs) and renders on second? Any speed noticeable with 2 drives as opposed to one doing it all? 2 TBs rather then small ssd and 1 TB make more sense?


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John RofranoRe: Hard drive advice
by on Jul 12, 2013 at 11:27:59 pm

You should definitely have two drives: 1 for OS and apps, 1 for project media and renders. Whether a 3rd drive for renders will help is a factor of how I/O bound your render is, but 2 drives is the minimum.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Joe TavolaRe: Hard drive advice
by on Jul 13, 2013 at 1:49:12 am

So using same drive to have media/render is ok? This makes a difference then just using 1 drive which includes the OS/apps?


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John RofranoRe: Hard drive advice
by on Jul 13, 2013 at 11:01:00 am

[Joe Tavola] "So using same drive to have media/render is ok?"
I have been doing that for 13 years now so I think it's OK. ;-)
[Joe Tavola] "This makes a difference then just using 1 drive which includes the OS/apps?"
Yes because Windows is constantly writing temp files and swap files to the OS drive which causes fragmentation and disk contention. You don't want your video files here because you don't want Windows writing to the swap file when you want to write to your video file. Keeping the OS and project files on separate disks means they aren't contenting with each other.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Joe TavolaRe: Hard drive advice
by on Jul 13, 2013 at 4:03:49 pm

Got it thanks again John for the advice!


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Joe TavolaRe: Hard drive advice
by on Jul 17, 2013 at 1:21:42 pm

hey John, i'm trying to decide on a 2TB drive for media/render, is the WD RED NAS series ok? Its the same price as the WD Black 1TB.. would the Seagate 2TB be ok? That too is the same price.


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John RofranoRe: Hard drive advice
by on Jul 18, 2013 at 9:47:31 am

The WD RED NAS series are built for Network Attached Storage or RAID and I have 4 x 3TB ones in my 9TB RAID 5. They are designed for 24/7 use so they cost a little more. The WD Blacks are perfect for video editing because they are high performance drives. I don't use Seagate so I don't know anything about their series. I've been using Western Digital for years now and have no complaints. I use a WD Green for my stock media, WD Black for editing, and WD RED in my RAID.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Joe TavolaRe: Hard drive advice
by on Jul 18, 2013 at 5:47:40 pm

awesome advice thanks!


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John RofranoRe: Hard drive advice
by on Jul 20, 2013 at 4:00:25 am

You're welcome.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Joe TavolaRe: Hard drive advice
by on Jul 11, 2013 at 11:56:03 am

thanks for the reply, how would i go about in finding that out through task manager? under performance tab? my specs are

Intel Quad Core Q6600
8 GB RAM
Windows 8 64 bit
ATI Radeon 4870 1GB GPU

outdated I know.. going to do a new build soon enough.


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Steve RhodenRe: Hard drive advice
by on Jul 11, 2013 at 8:05:27 am

Increasing your processing power is the only way
you are gonna see any significant increase in render times,
not by having three configured hard drives.

Steve Rhoden
(Cow Leader)
Film Editor & Compositor.
Filmex Creative Media.
http://www.facebook.com/FilmexCreativeMedia
1-876-832-4956


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Angelo MikeRe: Hard drive advice
by on Jul 11, 2013 at 10:52:22 am

I only use 1 TB hard drives because I shoot a lot. I buy them refurbished, so they're a little cheap, and use them in external enclosures, one with a sata cable, the other with USB 3.0 for backing everything up.


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Joe TavolaRe: Hard drive advice
by on Jul 11, 2013 at 11:56:55 am

thanks Steve


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Norman BlackRe: Hard drive advice
by on Jul 11, 2013 at 4:25:45 pm

I agree with everyone here. The HD is the least of your worries.

Remember that video streams are 10s of mega bits per second and hard disks can easily handle 10s-100 of mega bytes per second (depending on seeks). Bits to bytes is an 8x difference already. So multiple simultaneous video streams are easily handled.

Also we typically don't render in even real time so the effective video stream bitrate is much lower making the I/O demands lower.


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Stephen MannRe: Hard drive advice
by on Jul 12, 2013 at 5:38:22 am

Like Angelo, I buy a 1Tb drive for each project (they are only 60-70 dollars and the client pays for it anyway). I use a USB2 dock and do all my editing on the external dock. Next project, another drive. I can plug in a drive and immediately have all my project files exactly where I left them.

I do back up all the work in progress with an overnight mirror (I use SyncBack), but when the project is done, the drive goes on a shelf and the backup drive is reused on the next project. I tell the clients that I save their project files for one year and give them the option to buy an additional year for $119. Only a couple have asked for that.

Steve Mann
MannMade Digital Video
http://www.mmdv.com


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Don CobbleRe: Hard drive advice
by on Jul 14, 2013 at 2:19:30 am

SO have I understood correctly that it is not necessary to have the media on a raid set for performance purposes? and a separate Render drive?

PC
I7 2.8 Ghz 8GB Ram
Win 7 Pro 64bit OS
PNY Quadro 4000

3-4 TB HD
Vegas 10 64bit & Vegas 11 64Bit & Vegas 12 & Adobe Production Premium CS5.5.2 & Avid Media Composer 5.5

Camera
Sony EX1 shoot in 1920x1080 30P


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Stephen MannRe: Hard drive advice
by on Jul 14, 2013 at 2:40:22 am

I haven't run a RAID array in about 15 years when it was necessary to keep up with a data CD burn. Which failed with a data underrun more often than not. PC's were sooo slow then.

Steve Mann
MannMade Digital Video
http://www.mmdv.com


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Don CobbleRe: Hard drive advice
by on Jul 14, 2013 at 3:18:40 am

Stephen - Thank You for the reply - If I may ask one more ? concerning the drive set up - are we calling the media drive and the project drive the same thing? Meaning can all the media in a project be on the same drive and all run well? Should I keep digital Juice ect... on a separate drive?
Thank You for help

PC
I7 2.8 Ghz 8GB Ram
Win 7 Pro 64bit OS
PNY Quadro 4000

3-4 TB HD
Vegas 10 64bit & Vegas 11 64Bit & Vegas 12 & Adobe Production Premium CS5.5.2 & Avid Media Composer 5.5

Camera
Sony EX1 shoot in 1920x1080 30P


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Stephen MannRe: Hard drive advice
by on Jul 14, 2013 at 3:37:25 am

Generally, you want your operating system and program files on the C drive. All other files can be on any other drive. Hard drives will not be your bottleneck - processor speed is what gives you the most bang for the buck.

Steve Mann
MannMade Digital Video
http://www.mmdv.com


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Don CobbleRe: Hard drive advice
by on Jul 14, 2013 at 3:47:15 am

Stephen Thank You - I have had raid troubles multiple times, but thought it necessary - Thank You for your time - It is greatly valued

PC
I7 2.8 Ghz 8GB Ram
Win 7 Pro 64bit OS
PNY Quadro 4000

3-4 TB HD
Vegas 10 64bit & Vegas 11 64Bit & Vegas 12 & Adobe Production Premium CS5.5.2 & Avid Media Composer 5.5

Camera
Sony EX1 shoot in 1920x1080 30P


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Stephen MannRe: Hard drive advice
by on Jul 14, 2013 at 5:29:14 am

"but thought it necessary"


If you were using Premiere or Avid, you probably would need raid.

Steve Mann
MannMade Digital Video
http://www.mmdv.com


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