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When events kiss, fades die!

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Stephen CryeWhen events kiss, fades die!
by on May 9, 2012 at 3:55:01 am

Hi;

I don't know how to describe this problem. Over a year ago when I first installed SVP10, the problem would come and go. I never figured out what made it happen or what setting I used that "fixed" it. Now that I am starting to use SVP11 for serious projects, I need to figure it out, because guess what ... the problem is back.

I have two events. The first event in the timeline has a fade-to-black, which I configured by grabbing the top edge of the last part of the event and sliding it to the left, resulting in the little fade curve. The next event in the timeline (to the right of event 1) is not touching event 1. I want that event to fade from black, so I grab the left hand edge at the top and slide right. This creates the little fade curve. (see below).



So far so good. Now I want to make the events touch, with no blank frames in between. So, I slide the event on the right over ... but as soon as they "kiss", the fades die! (see below)



Last year I created a thread for this and no one could figure out what was going on. I've tried every conceivable setting for snapping, envelopes, etc. Nothing I try makes it go away ... but if SVP11 is anything like SVP10, one day I will notice that the problem has vanished and I will be able to edit normally without zooming in and leaving a single blank frame-space between the events.

I have a gut feeling there is a setting somewhere that controls this, I just can't find it. Ripping out what is left of my hair in big chunks ... help.

Steve

Win7 Pro X64 on Dell T3400, MultiTB SATA, 8GB RAM, nVidia FX 570, Vegas 10e (and 11) x64 DVDA 5.2(build 133) Sony HDR-CX550V


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Stephen CryeRe: When events kiss, fades die!
by on May 9, 2012 at 4:38:48 am

I found the setting! It is "Quantize to Frames" ; when on, it causes the Kiss of Fade Death.

Ok... so WHY does quantize to frames cause this? John? Help ...

Steve

Win7 Pro X64 on Dell T3400, MultiTB SATA, 8GB RAM, nVidia FX 570, Vegas 10e (and 11) x64 DVDA 5.2(build 133) Sony HDR-CX550V


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Stephen CryeRe: When events kiss, fades die!
by on May 9, 2012 at 5:04:20 am

Ok, more has been revealed ...

As I played with things with Quantize off or on, I noticed that when Quantize was off, the timeline cursor was free to move anywhere ... regardless of being on an actual frame boundary (as defined by the frame markers in on the timeline). With Quantize on, the timeline cursor would always be on a frame boundary (to see this you have to zoom in a lot).

Then I noticed that my video event's little frame-tic markers did not line up with the timeline frame markers! Going back to the left toward the start of the project, I found where things got out of alignment - I had time-compressed an event to speed it up (via ctrl-drag). This had apparently caused the right edge of that event to no longer be aligned with the project frame markers in the timeline. (this even though Quantize had been on during the drag).

So, I turned off Quantize, and with a lot of zoom, carefully aligned the events so that the event time-tic frame markers lined up with the timeline frame markers. Turned Quantize back on, and lo and behold, the Kiss of Frame Death problem went away!



I am still mightily confused about all this. Is there a Pro in the house? I can see how the Kiss problem could appear randomly in my projects, because I am fond of doing event time squeeze/stretch. Just would like to know if there is a way to keep event frames in synch with project frame/time. Not sure of the terminology here ...

Steve

Win7 Pro X64 on Dell T3400, MultiTB SATA, 8GB RAM, nVidia FX 570, Vegas 10e (and 11) x64 DVDA 5.2(build 133) Sony HDR-CX550V


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Steve RhodenRe: When events kiss, fades die!
by on May 9, 2012 at 6:09:45 am

LOL....That happens when events kiss when the frames are not
Quantize. Dont be confused on this matter Stephen, it is a simple
feature. Just google Quantize to frames and read upon it a little.
Simply keep Quantize to frames on whenever you are editing...
(place icon in your toolbar).

Steve Rhoden
(Cow Leader)
Film Editor & Compositor.
Filmex Creative Media.
1-876-832-4956


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Stephen CryeRe: When events kiss, fades die!
by on May 9, 2012 at 6:23:40 am

Thanks Steve ... but I had Quantize on the entire time prior to noticing the Kiss of Fade Death. Somehow the process of ctrl-drag to squeeze the event early in the timeline made that event get out of synch with the frame markers in the project, even though Quantize was on. I had to turn Quantize OFF, then carefully re-position. After than, I could leave Quantize on while kissing.

Oh well, at least I solved part of the mystery! The project is rendering now, 90% done, 30 min to go.

I need sleep ... gotta stop foruming!

Steve

Win7 Pro X64 on Dell T3400, MultiTB SATA, 8GB RAM, nVidia FX 570, Vegas 10e (and 11) x64 DVDA 5.2(build 133) Sony HDR-CX550V


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Steve RhodenRe: When events kiss, fades die!
by on May 9, 2012 at 6:51:16 am

(smile)...ok

Steve Rhoden
(Cow Leader)
Film Editor & Compositor.
Filmex Creative Media.
1-876-832-4956


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Paul BelterRe: When events kiss, fades die!
by on May 9, 2012 at 5:06:32 pm

open internal prefs and look for "show unquintized events." change to TRUE and all unquintized events will get red brackets. unquintized events occure when you use footage with framerate different then your project


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Steve RhodenRe: When events kiss, fades die!
by on May 9, 2012 at 6:34:21 pm

Very good info Belter, on the internal option for red brackets
showing...Very good!

Steve Rhoden
(Cow Leader)
Film Editor & Compositor.
Filmex Creative Media.
1-876-832-4956


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Paul BelterRe: When events kiss, fades die!
by on May 9, 2012 at 7:01:54 pm

yeah, thanx Rhoden.


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Steve RhodenRe: When events kiss, fades die!
by on May 9, 2012 at 7:14:38 pm

Now we can see those Unquantize Devils...lol

Steve Rhoden
(Cow Leader)
Film Editor & Compositor.
Filmex Creative Media.
1-876-832-4956


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Jeff SchroederRe: When events kiss, fades die!
by on May 9, 2012 at 8:54:55 pm

Yes, really good tip, Paul.

2-Xeon X5680 @ 3.33 MSI Mobo 48GB DDR3 GTX 580 3072MB 16TB Attached Storage Win7 Vegas 11 x64


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Stephen CryeRe: When events kiss, fades die!
by on May 13, 2012 at 6:05:26 am

Paul, I have searched for this setting now for a solid 1/2 hour and can't find it. Not sure what "internal prefs" are. The only Preferences menu I have is the one at the bottom of Options:



None of the tabs has anything like "show unquantized events".

Help ...

Steve

Win7 Pro X64 on Dell T3400, MultiTB SATA, 8GB RAM, nVidia FX 570, Vegas 10e (and 11) x64 DVDA 5.2(build 133) Sony HDR-CX550V


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Paul BelterRe: When events kiss, fades die!
by on May 13, 2012 at 6:42:25 am

Stephen,
I am very happy for your surprise which you will get as soon as you open preferences WHILE holding shift key pushed down. after that look for new tab - internal - in the right upper corner - i guess.

then use the option to filter out what you seek (you'll know), word "quantize" would be perfect.
:)
all the best
paul


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Steve RhodenRe: When events kiss, fades die!
by on May 13, 2012 at 2:11:23 pm

Hold down the shift key while pressing preferences.
At the bottom is a search box, type in "show unquantize....
and you will see the drop down list of everything.

Steve Rhoden
(Cow Leader)
Film Editor & Compositor.
Filmex Creative Media.
1-876-832-4956


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Paul BelterRe: When events kiss, fades die!
by on May 13, 2012 at 3:58:09 pm

yes, it is good to repeat what i've just said in case the man wouldn't understand my english.

much obliged:)


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Stephen CryeRe: When events kiss, fades die!
by on May 14, 2012 at 2:53:12 am

Thanks Paul and Steve!

But , this begs another question ... WHY WOULD SONY BUILD THIS TYPE OF SECRET EASTER-EGG BEHAVIOR INTO VEGAS ?!?

Is this mentioned in an obscure manual? Searching help for "show unquantized" gives no hits; a search for "internal" does not lead to anything that describes this pref tab!!

What am I missing here? Is there some kind of a secret Vegas society to which I need to be inducted?!?





Steve

Win7 Pro X64 on Dell T3400, MultiTB SATA, 8GB RAM, nVidia FX 570, Vegas 10e (and 11) x64 DVDA 5.2(build 133) Sony HDR-CX550V


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Paul BelterRe: When events kiss, fades die!
by on May 14, 2012 at 4:51:39 am

welcome in the secret society.
who knows, developer's steps who will follow and understand?
i think it was meant to be a kind of secret area for more advanced users to change some setting that you normally don't need to change or even don't need to be aware that you may change them, a kind of advanced settings. in practise maybe there was not enough room on other tabs and many useful settings landed in those "internal". many settings or maybe all - i haven't checked that - are duplicated in internal. on other tabs you need to tick a box, here you mast change false to true or true to false. i would like to know the answer too.
many applications have that secret area.
what counts most is that we know how to reach it.


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Jeff SchroederRe: When events kiss, fades die!
by on May 14, 2012 at 1:31:15 pm

I think they hid this option for safety. Some of these settings can seriously screw up Vegas unless you know exactly what you are doing.

I think they were very generous in giving us the option to tweak the internals. Try adjusting internal settings on Premiere Pro! Good luck.

Jeff

2-Xeon X5680 @ 3.33 MSI Mobo 48GB DDR3 GTX 580 3072MB 16TB Attached Storage Win7 Vegas 11 x64


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Stephen CryeRe: When events kiss, fades die!
by on May 18, 2012 at 2:55:00 am

Good point Jeff. I did not mean to come off too harsh.

So - who was the spelunker who first discovered the Internal Prefs?

Steve

Win7 Pro X64 on Dell T3400, MultiTB SATA, 8GB RAM, nVidia FX 570, Vegas 10e (and 11) x64 DVDA 5.2(build 133) Sony HDR-CX550V


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Jorma NippalaRe: When events kiss, fades die!
by on May 18, 2012 at 7:22:51 am

The link below might give us some idea of some of the first spelunkers wrt internal preferences :)
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=4&Messag...


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Stephen CryeRe: When events kiss, fades die!
by on May 24, 2012 at 3:35:48 am

Thanks, Jorma!

wow - have a look at the date:
----
Subject: Hidden INTERNAL Defaults
Posted by: pking
Date: 8/17/2001 8:33:19 AM
----

Pre-911. I was still shooting on a Sony Handycam, and editing with it and a VCR... (I got off to a slow start with video)

Steve

Win7 Pro X64 on Dell T3400, MultiTB SATA, 8GB RAM, nVidia FX 570, Vegas 10e (and 11) x64 DVDA 5.2(build 133) Sony HDR-CX550V


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Jeff SchroederRe: When events kiss, fades die!
by on May 18, 2012 at 12:46:47 pm

Stephen,

You didn't come off harsh.

Jeff

2-Xeon X5680 @ 3.33 MSI Mobo 48GB DDR3 GTX 580 3072MB 16TB Attached Storage Win7 Vegas 11 x64


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Roger BansemerRe: When events kiss, fades die!
by on Feb 7, 2013 at 12:29:56 pm

If events are not quantized to frame, does that really make any difference in the long run other than the issue of disappearing fades?
I just checked one of my programs after changing the true/false setting and almost the entire project is marked in red.

Roger Bansemer - PaintingAndTravel.com


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