Creative COW SIGN IN :: SPONSORS :: ADVERTISING :: ABOUT US :: CONTACT US :: FAQ
Creative COW's LinkedIn GroupCreative COW's Facebook PageCreative COW on TwitterCreative COW's Google+ PageCreative COW on YouTube
SONY VEGAS:Sony Vegas TutorialsSony Vegas ForumArticlesBasics ForumBlack Magic Design ForumAJA Xena Forum

Resolved issue with Nikon .mov files with Vegas Pro 10 and 11:

COW Forums : Sony Vegas

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Share on Facebook
Phil LoarieResolved issue with Nikon .mov files with Vegas Pro 10 and 11:
by on Dec 2, 2011 at 9:03:35 pm

Update on an almost 6 month problem.
Summary: Get a new machine.

I bought a Nikon S9100 back in June and soon discovered that the .mov files from this camera did not get along with Vegas Pro 10.
I posted about this back in July and August.

FYI:
In August I opened a ticket with Nikon Customer Service, and they recommended I address these issues with Sony.

After almost 3 months of partnering with Sony Creative Software and testing on several machines, here is the final statement from SCS:

Hi Phil,

Thank you for writing back.

I received feedback from our development team on the issue. They were able to test and reproduce the issue and have attributed it to one key factor, which is the operating system. Unfortunately, since the footage is all HD video, this is too taxing for amount of resources.

Ideally, upgrading to a 64-bit operating system would be the best solution. However, since this may not be an option it is best to convert your footage to an intermediate format for playback and editing. After this is completed, you can render back to the full HD resolution. Please see the following knowledgebase article on this:

https://www.custcenter.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/4233/kw/intermediate

If you still have a follow-up question on this particular incident, please feel free to update it. If you have a completely different question, please create a new incident.

Sincerely,

Nate P.
Customer Service & Technical Support
Sony Creative Software Inc
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Steve RhodenRe: Resolved issue with Nikon .mov files with Vegas Pro 10 and 11:
by on Dec 2, 2011 at 9:23:37 pm

i was expecting your feedback after that letter....lol

Steve Rhoden
(Cow Leader)
Film Maker
Filmex Creative Media.
1-876-832-4956
http://filmex-creative-media.blogspot.com/


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Phil LoarieRe: Resolved issue with Nikon .mov files with Vegas Pro 10 and 11:
by on Dec 3, 2011 at 12:34:00 am

Hi Steve,
I appreciate the humor.

I think I was kind to them on my reply which I will include at the bottom. Over the duration I was getting a bit frustrated with all the hoops they wanted me to dance through so I let them know a couple of weeks ago that there was room from improvement on the process. I had to chide Nate a bit to come up with a 32 bit machine that better matched my target machine at home (the one that initially had the issues) so he could actually copy the problem. That worked ! There were tons of workarounds I tried before this. At one point, SCS had me review a 25 page thread from their forum regarding the "blink3times" workaround (from 2009) ...directions:

"I reset the memory flags in
vegas80.exe
m2tsplug.dll
mcstdh264dec.dll
sonymvd2pro_xp.dll"

This work around did not work for me. So I was totally worn out by the end of this round. And my own conclusion by this time was that it was resource based anyways.

-------------------------------- snip ----------------------------

Thank you Nate and your team,

As you know I still had issues using another machine, 64 Bit i7 Core Win7 w/4Gb of core memory, albeit I was able to include more clips before the render went black while you were successful with a 64 Bit i7 Core Win7 w/8Gb. So this leaves me to believe that both a 64 bit machine and more than 8Gb should be able to accommodate the Nikon .mov file based Vegas projects.

Last question: I know for a fact that Adobe Premiere has no problems with these Nikon .mov files whether we are talking about 32 bit or 64 bit, so why can't Vegas do this?

If you can not provide an answer it's ok, but if you can, I sure would like to understand the difference in how Vegas and Adobe deal with .mov files. Short of that, we are done here and again I thank you and your team on working with me on this for the past 3 months.

-Phil
------------------------------------

So for now, I can only make HD videos with my Nikon in Vegas that do not exceed 1 GB of total media. However, I have plenty of Sony AVCHD files from my Sony Camcorder that need editing so maybe by the time I catch up, I will want to upgrade to a new 64 bit i7 w/16 GB. Perhaps by that time, they will have a i7^2 core or maybe I will tryout AP and love it too much to change.
:>

-Phil


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  


John RofranoRe: Resolved issue with Nikon .mov files with Vegas Pro 10 and 11:
by on Dec 3, 2011 at 3:27:21 pm

Phil, There are probably a couple of factors here to consider:
  1. Great acquisition formats are not necessarily great editing formats. A key requirement of acquisition is low file size which means high compression. A key requirement for editing is low compression with means large file size. They are diametrically apposed.

  2. Vegas is a Windows program and MOV files are an Apple standard. I'm guessing that Adobe handles them well because Premiere Pro also runs on a Mac so the developers are probably very intimate with the inner workings of QuickTime whereas the Sony developers are probably not.

  3. People who own PC's should avoid cameras that create MOV files. I bet those files work great on a Mac. I avoided the Flip phone and bought a Kodak Zi8 specifically because the Flip had problems on a PC but worked great on a Mac and the Kodak worked great on a PC. Not all video formats are created equal depending on whether you use a Mac or PC.

  4. If you can't avoid buying a camera that shoots MOV files, you should be prepared to convert those files into something that edits smoothly on a PC (see #1). BTW, Apple does this ALL THE TIME. When you capture with FCP, the first thing it does is convert your footage to Apple ProRes 422. That's why FCP editors don't have all these problems. They only use a format that is know to work (although now you can edit some native formats with FCP but it doesn't mean you should). Avid works the same way with their format. This is standard procedure.

DSLR's manufacturers have a bit of "wild west" thinking. The standards for HD are HDV and AVCHD but these manufacturers snub their noses at standards and do whatever they want. It's not Sony's fault that they are unwilling to follow the video standards. It's you the consumer that should vote with your wallet but you don't. So you get burned and no one wins. :(

When the early DSLR's that shoot video came out (e.g., Canon 5D/7D), no NLE could edit these files. It was standard procedure to convert their output to CineForm so that it could be edited. CineForm on a PC is the equivalent ProRes on a Mac. It's a digital intermediary that is great for editing. Vegas Pro 10.0 and 11.0 have added better native support for Canon DSLR files because it's the most popular.

No software developer can support every crazy video format that still image camera manufacturers come up with. It's simply impossible. That's why there are standards in the first place. Especially a $200 camera like the Nikon S9100. IMHO, this is not what Sony should be wasting their time on. Your best bet is to just convert this footage to CineForm and move on with editing rather than waiting for Sony to support it, or buy a Canon 5D/7D that they do support. When planning your production pipeline it's important to select components that work well together. Not all of them do.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

Phil LoarieRe: Resolved issue with Nikon .mov files with Vegas Pro 10 and 11:
by on Dec 5, 2011 at 7:03:26 pm

Hello John,
Excellent overview and I agree with you totally. I would not have ventured into the S9100 camera had I known these facts before buying.

SCS is mainly saying that the OS is not my friend here, would Vegas Pro 10/11 handle these .mov files any better if I changed my OS to Linux?

I am ok to continue to use the Nikon S9100 now that I know what limitations I have in editing. I have had several editing success stories with this camera as long as I keep the shot count down and the over all time under 3 or 4 minutes. Generally, with my system (Quad Core Win7 32 bit w/4GB of ram) if I keep the overall media total under 1.2 GB I will be ok. Workarounds: Cine Forms Neo-scene was successful in the case I tested, however not all Nikon .mov files converted, but I managed to edit and render the converted files ok.

Another workaround, by simply changing the extension from .mov to .mp4 did make a difference in getting another project to work. In both workarounds I was able to exceed the limitations but not by much before Vegas barfed in the render process.

Yes, I have a new camera in mind. How does the Sony NEX-5N AVCHD™ 1080/60p files do in Vegas Pro 10 or 11? I would think this should work nicely.

I can't afford a Canon 5d MkII yet, by the time I do, there will be comparable lighter and cheaper versions available. What I think most independents like me want is a full sensor camera, with a huge piece of glass, like a Zeiss 30:1, and manual control everything on a remote--I must be thinking of a RED.
:>

Thanks for taking a look John.
-Phil


Return to posts index
Reply   Like  

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Share on Facebook


FORUMSTUTORIALSFEATURESVIDEOSPODCASTSEVENTSSERVICESNEWSLETTERNEWSBLOGS

Creative COW LinkedIn Group Creative COW Facebook Page Creative COW on Twitter
© 2014 CreativeCOW.net All rights are reserved. - Privacy Policy

[Top]