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Anyone using Vegas to edit video from Canon XF100 or XF105 or XF300 or XF305?

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Stephen CryeAnyone using Vegas to edit video from Canon XF100 or XF105 or XF300 or XF305?
by on Nov 10, 2011 at 10:44:12 pm

Hi;

Im seriously considering a Canon XF100 to replace the Sony NX70 I'm returning. If I get the Canon, it will be the first video cam other than Sony I have ever owned for the last 23 years. So, I'm nervous ...

I use Vegas 9, 10 and soon 11.

I have a question about the XF100 and the Canon EF utility.

When I use Sony PMB to import camera files from my various Sony camcorders, PMB can take the multiple < 2 GB nnnnnn.MTS files from the camera that comprise a recording , and, (by also reading some kind of metadata?) combine them into a single file with a name in format yyyymmddhhmmss.m2ts on the computer. This is essential, because a big 50 GB recording consisting of 25 2GB raw clips would be insanely hard to work with!

So, does the Canon EF utility have similar functionality, or will I be forced to deal with dozens of raw AAnnnn.mxf files? I'm working with Canon Pro camcorder support, and they are not sure about this. They say that in the EF utility, they can see a single huge "file", but that on the computer, what they see is a folder containing all the < 2GB clips.

I am very confused about how Vegas will deal with a bunch of < 2GB clips that represent a single recording.

Help! (please)

Steve

Win7 Pro X64 on Dell T3400 MultiTB SATA 8 GB RAM Vegas 10e x64 DVDA 5.2 Sony HDR-CX550V


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Ted SnowRe: Anyone using Vegas to edit video from Canon XF100 or XF105 or XF300 or XF305?
by on Nov 10, 2011 at 11:00:59 pm

You might read some reviews from retailers. This is copied from a review on B&H website.

"I am not pleased that converting the files is so difficult and time consuming because of lack of plug-ins. The included viewing software is great for reviewing clips - but the only included plug-in is for Final Cut Pro for my Mac. I am not willing to purchase Final Cut Pro just to experiment with it. I have found a work-around, but loading 130 clips from a football game, one at a time into HandBrake for conversion, just takes way too long.

I hope Canon works fast and furious to help us get these files into our many and varied editing software programs"

------------------------------------------------
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Win 7 Pro
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VEGAS 11.0 32 & 64 bit
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Stephen CryeRe: Anyone using Vegas to edit video from Canon XF100 or XF105 or XF300 or XF305?
by on Nov 10, 2011 at 11:15:20 pm

HI;

Thanks, Ted. Interesting you found that review - it was one of the first I read.

It was info like that from B&H that started me on my quest. I worked on this for a week before posting here in desperation.

That is why I am hoping that there is at least one XF100 owner who runs Vegas.

The guy at Canon support is going to install a trial of Vegas 10e and get back to me, but I promised I would continue to research. Not just sitting on my hands!

It is nice that Vegas has no problem with individual .mxf files.

Thanks, anyone else out there?

Steve

Win7 Pro X64 on Dell T3400 MultiTB SATA 8 GB RAM Vegas 10e x64 DVDA 5.2 Sony HDR-CX550V


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Ted SnowRe: Anyone using Vegas to edit video from Canon XF100 or XF105 or XF300 or XF305?
by on Nov 10, 2011 at 11:20:24 pm

It's good that Canon is stepping up and trying to help solve your issue. I've been reading a lot of posts lately about Sony's support not being so helpful.

------------------------------------------------
ASUS P8P67 Deluxe MB
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Corsair HX750 power supply
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16 Gig G.Skill Ripjaws DDR3 1600
Canopus ACEDVio card
Thermaltake V9 BlacX Edition case
Xigmatek Dark Knight CPU Cooler
Win 7 Pro
VEGAS 8.0
VEGAS 11.0 32 & 64 bit
Sony VX2100
Sony HVR-Z7U
Sony HDR-CX130
Alesis HD24


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Jim GreeneRe: Anyone using Vegas to edit video from Canon XF100 or XF105 or XF300 or XF305?
by on Nov 11, 2011 at 12:58:40 pm

I hope you find a more elegant solution than what I had to do when I had a Panasonic HMC-150 which also has multiple 2GB files. I needed to go a windows command prompt and do a binary copy, like this:

copy file1 + file2 + file3 combinedfile

This takes some time to complete, but did create a concatenated file of all contiguous clips. But you need to identify which clips are contiguous. Total PITA. Good luck!

-Jim.


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Stephen CryeRe: Anyone using Vegas to edit video from Canon XF100 or XF105 or XF300 or XF305?
by on Nov 12, 2011 at 12:07:41 am

Thanks Jim, I think we are getting closer (see other posts in this thread). I don't want to feel your pain if I get the camera!

That Panny you mention is the other cam I am considering as a replacement for the NX70. Wondering about the low-light and lots of other things. How did you like it? Any chance to compare the low-light performance to the NX70 or similar Sonys?

Steve

Win7 Pro X64 on Dell T3400, MultiTB SATA, 8GB RAM Vegas 10e x64 DVDA 5.2(build 133) Sony HDR-CX550V


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Jim GreeneRe: Anyone using Vegas to edit video from Canon XF100 or XF105 or XF300 or XF305?
by on Nov 12, 2011 at 5:29:19 pm

Stephen Crye, we sold our Panny HMC-150s because they didn't match at all with the Canon 5D's that we now use. Actually thought the low-light wasn't any better than our old Sony Z1U. I don't know how the NX70 compares.

-Jim.


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Dave HaynieRe: Anyone using Vegas to edit video from Canon XF100 or XF105 or XF300 or XF305?
by on Nov 12, 2011 at 10:41:19 pm

My HMC40 does the same thing, only, they're on 4GB boundaries, not 2GB.
And yeah, I usually copy to my HDD by concatenating the files I know are sequential.

Whether this works on the XF100 or not depends on how they break the files. The HMC40 actually wins on two fronts. For one, it's breaking the recording stream on exact 4GB boundaries. This means that, not only is the merging possible, it's actually necessary to get an unbroken shot -- the fact that it's breaking the files on exact 4GB boundaries means that it'll break in the middle of a GOP, middle of a header, middle of a frame... anywhere.

Even if it broke things on a logical level, the fact that it's MPEG-2 TS means that, as long as the format is the same, you can concatenate the files. Transport Stream is designed for transmission, not file storage, so there's nothing like a global header or anything.

So, first to check is how the XF100 breaks up its files. If there are on clean 2GB boundaries, I'm certain that it's actually necessary to concatenate them to use them properly. If they're broken on logical boundaries, then I don't know... that depends on how MXF is internally structured.

-Dave


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Brian StrubleRe: Anyone using Vegas to edit video from Canon XF100 or XF105 or XF300 or XF305?
by on Nov 11, 2011 at 8:40:43 pm

Steven:

I use Sony Vegas Pro 10.0e to handle footage from my XF300. Long takes (files above the 2Gb limitation) haven't been an issue for me. I simply drag the .MXFs into the timeline sequentially, then continue on...

I've shot an event last spring that exceeded 45 minutes (band playing, speakers, testimonials) that needed to incorporated as a single presentation. Throughout all of those file changes, Vegas had no issues with the source files.

Overall, I've been very satisfied with the camera and Sony Vegas Pro...

Brian


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Stephen CryeRe: Anyone using Vegas to edit video from Canon XF100 or XF105 or XF300 or XF305?
by on Nov 12, 2011 at 12:04:39 am

Thanks, Brian!

I'm still wondering about obtaining seamless transitions between the sub-clips. I think it is possible, but would still appreciate additional details.

From Robin Davies-Rollinson, a TV producer and videographer in the United Kingdom, via a Vimeo private message. Robin owns an XF305 and uses Vegas 10. I've been pestering him for details, and he has been very helpful:

"Hi Steve,
I've just been looking at some Canon files from an awards event that I covered earlier this year. The files indeed were all about 2GB. They were separate, not stitched together when I opened them up in Vegas. If I drop them one at a time onto the timeline, Vegas wants to make a small audio mix betwen the clips. However, if I lassoe all the consequitive clips in the Media Assets pane, they end up stitched together cleanly on the timeline and play perfectly, without any frame drops.I guess one can get Vegas to combine them all as one single event...
The Canon also produces a nice file name for each clip, eg. 20110713004503."

I'm still corresponding with Robin (he had to sleep, it is late in the UK), and will hopefully have more clarification tomorrow.

Thanks again,

Steve

Win7 Pro X64 on Dell T3400, MultiTB SATA, 8GB RAM Vegas 10e x64 DVDA 5.2(build 133) Sony HDR-CX550V


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Brian StrubleRe: Anyone using Vegas to edit video from Canon XF100 or XF105 or XF300 or XF305?
by on Nov 12, 2011 at 1:26:16 am

Steve:

I followed Robin's workflow - lasso all the sequential files, then drop them to the timeline. Mine stitched together cleanly as well on the timeline.

One more point to consider: there's a plug-in called Vegasaur that will nest selected tracks to a new project. This might help controlling those multiple .MXfs.

Brian


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Stephen CryeRe: Anyone using Vegas to edit video from Canon XF100 or XF105 or XF300 or XF305?
by on Nov 26, 2011 at 5:10:08 pm

Hi Brian;

I want to hijack my own thread and repurpose it a bit.

Chromatic Aberration at full zoom was one reason I sent back my NX70. The link below will take you to a folder with some examples:

http://www.huecotanks.com/temp1/

I know that your XF305 has much better optics than the XF100, but I would greatly appreciate it if you could do a quick shoot of a scene with high-contract near the edges of the frame, at full zoom, and post a frame grab of the results.

On dvinfo, Andy was kind enough to do this with his JVC HM150. I see that the JVC has the problem as bad as my NX70 did:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/jvc-gy-hm100-camcorder/502448-my-new-hm150u.htm...

I have a bit of urgency with this question - I've been trying to get an XF100 owner to respond for about 4 weeks with no luck. The NX70 is currently on sale at B&H for $2549.00 until Nov 30, so if the cameras that I have been considering as alternates also have the CA problem, I think I will re-purchase the NX70.

Thanks!

Steve

Win7 Pro X64 on Dell T3400, MultiTB SATA, 8GB RAM Vegas 10e x64 DVDA 5.2(build 133) Sony HDR-CX550V


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Brian StrubleRe: Anyone using Vegas to edit video from Canon XF100 or XF105 or XF300 or XF305?
by on Nov 26, 2011 at 5:35:56 pm

Steve:

Check out this file. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3476955/XF300-CA-Test.zip

I quickly tried a worst-case situation. Black against a white background. The white source in this case is a Fluorescent light panel, 180degree shutter. There is a small amount of CA apparent, but I have never seen it while shooting more-realistic subject matter...

hope this helps!

Brian


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Stephen CryeRe: Anyone using Vegas to edit video from Canon XF100 or XF105 or XF300 or XF305?
by on Nov 26, 2011 at 8:19:32 pm

Wow, that was quick! Greatly appreciated.

Although I see CA, it seems to be uniform, and not worse on the edges of the frame, the way it was on my NX70. Hmmmm....

Steve

Win7 Pro X64 on Dell T3400, MultiTB SATA, 8GB RAM Vegas 10e x64 DVDA 5.2(build 133) Sony HDR-CX550V


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Brian StrubleRe: Anyone using Vegas to edit video from Canon XF100 or XF105 or XF300 or XF305?
by on Nov 26, 2011 at 8:24:02 pm

Steve:

Glad to help out... Yes, the CA is there and it's an extreme situation that probably won't be a real-world situation.

Here's a brief piece that I shot outside this fall: http://vimeo.com/32022445. Aside from editing the shots together (Sony Vegas 10e) and rendering, nothing special was done to address CA.

Brian


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Stephen CryeRe: Anyone using Vegas to edit video from Canon XF100 or XF105 or XF300 or XF305?
by on Nov 27, 2011 at 5:24:20 am

Brian, that is a beautiful vid, one of the best XF vids I've seen. Most XF vids seem smudged and boringly undersaturated. Did you boost the color in post, or tweak the camera?

I know that you can't comment on the XF100 lens (man, I wish some XF owners would help out the way you have!) , but your focus seems very sharp from edge to edge.

I would love to know if the XF100's low-light performance is better or worse than the NX70. The zoom range from f1.8 to 2.8 makes me think it is better ...

Agonizing over the decision. If only the XF did not use those expensive CF cards I would be ready to pull the trigger ... for the long-duration shots I routinely do it will cost me a minimum of $500.00 for cards ...

Steve

Win7 Pro X64 on Dell T3400, MultiTB SATA, 8GB RAM Vegas 10e x64 DVDA 5.2(build 133) Sony HDR-CX550V


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Stephen CryeRe: Anyone using Vegas to edit video from Canon XF100 or XF105 or XF300 or XF305?
by on Nov 26, 2011 at 5:11:36 pm

Hi Brian;

I want to hijack my own thread and repurpose it a bit.

Chromatic Aberration at full zoom was one reason I sent back my NX70. The link below will take you to a folder with some examples:

http://www.huecotanks.com/temp1/

I know that your XF305 has much better optics than the XF100, but I would greatly appreciate it if you could do a quick shoot of a scene with high-contract near the edges of the frame, at full zoom, and post a frame grab of the results.

I have a bit of urgency with this question - I've been trying to get an XF100 owner to respond for about 4 weeks with no luck. The NX70 is currently on sale at B&H for $2549.00 until Nov 30, so if the cameras that I have been considering as alternates also have the CA problem, I think I will re-purchase the NX70.

Thanks!

Steve

Win7 Pro X64 on Dell T3400, MultiTB SATA, 8GB RAM Vegas 10e x64 DVDA 5.2(build 133) Sony HDR-CX550V


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Brian StrubleRe: Anyone using Vegas to edit video from Canon XF100 or XF105 or XF300 or XF305?
by on Nov 26, 2011 at 5:16:09 pm

Steve:

I'll take a quick look at some testing files I've shot with my Xf300, and get back to you asap.

Brian


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Lee MuellerRe: Anyone using Vegas to edit video from Canon XF100 or XF105 or XF300 or XF305?
by on Mar 25, 2012 at 6:55:56 pm

I tried doing this from the "project media" pane and also the "media manager pane". I selected all the files and dragged them onto the timeline and they are still split events. Can you please elaborate on how to get vegas to see these as one event? Thanks

Lee

Director Of Video Production (yes this is made up)

http://www.yourmusicmuse.com


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Dave HaynieRe: Anyone using Vegas to edit video from Canon XF100 or XF105 or XF300 or XF305?
by on Mar 26, 2012 at 6:24:48 pm

Separate files are always separate events.

There are two things you can do in Vegas to deal with separate files. One is simply group them (select them all, hit the "g" key or "Add Group" from the menus). Another one: drop all files, sequentially, into a project. Save the project. Load the .veg file for that project into your main project -- all one "clip" now.

The more important thing to know is just how your camera breaks files up when recording. If the camera's always breaking things on a GOP boundary, both techniques are all you need. But if the camera's breaking files on a byte broundary, you can wind up with broken GOPs when you just drop them together on a timeline. This is what my Panasonic AVC cameras do, as previously mentioned here. So I physically merge the files into one large >4GB file, which will work when the camera's breaking the stream, but not if it's fully closing one stream and opening another at the break.

But the nice thing is, I wind up with a single file for each continuous shot, regardless of length... almost as if my camcorders had been rooted in the better features of early 90s filesystems, rather than those of the simplest of the earlies 80s (eg, support for >4GB file systems).

-Dave


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Lee MuellerRe: Anyone using Vegas to edit video from Canon XF100 or XF105 or XF300 or XF305?
by on Apr 2, 2012 at 4:24:39 pm

Would love to get an answer on this. The above post about "lassoing" the files onto the timeline is the closest thing I can find to a solution for this $4000.00 camera.

Is it ok to start a new post on this?

Lee

Director Of Video Production (yes this is made up)

http://www.yourmusicmuse.com


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Stephen CryeRe: Anyone using Vegas to edit video from Canon XF100 or XF105 or XF300 or XF305?
by on Apr 4, 2012 at 9:36:10 pm

@ Dave who wrote: "This is what my Panasonic AVC cameras do, as previously mentioned here. So I physically merge the files into one large >4GB file, which will work when the camera's breaking the stream, but not if it's fully closing one stream and opening another at the break. "

Thanks for this insight, it will probably be very valuable as I am now seriously considering an AG-AC160. I did NOT know that Panny is splitting the GoP boundaries - that kind of bugs me.

When you say "merge", do you mean use XCOPY or something else to concatenate the files? With Win7 x64 NTFS, will I be able to concatenate (for example) 10 raw 2GB files into a single 20GB file? More details, please!

Thanks again,

Steve

Win7 Pro X64 on Dell T3400, MultiTB SATA, 8GB RAM Vegas 10e (and 11) x64 DVDA 5.2(build 133) Sony HDR-CX550V


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Dave HaynieRe: Anyone using Vegas to edit video from Canon XF100 or XF105 or XF300 or XF305?
by on Apr 5, 2012 at 4:58:20 am

[Stephen Crye] "When you say "merge", do you mean use XCOPY or something else to concatenate the files? With Win7 x64 NTFS, will I be able to concatenate (for example) 10 raw 2GB files into a single 20GB file? More details, please!"

More or less.. I used to fire up a Cygwin shell, cd down to the .../.../STREAM directory (the AVCHD hierarchy), then run something like:

cat 00000.mts 00001.mts 00002.mts > /cygdrive/d/video/project/proj.mts

That kind of thing. I think you can do the same thing with XCOPY. These days, I have a Windows shell tool that makes this slightly quicker, "File Concatenate/Split Context Menu" by JD Design.

But basically, yeah, it's just a simple catenation. The Panny files, at least in the HMC40/TM700, run exactly 4GB when split -- they're spilt at a byte boundary, not on some logical boundary. So you really do want to catenate them. I'd kind of hope the AG-AC160 would be all nice about exFAT on SDXC cards, no more 4GB boundaries. But while the large cards are all supported these days, the 4GB boundaries seem to still be popular.

-Dave


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Lee MuellerRe: Anyone using Vegas to edit video from Canon XF100 or XF105 or XF300 or XF305?
by on Apr 5, 2012 at 1:07:12 pm

I tried the JD design program and the file it created can't be opened by vegas and when I play it in VLC it only plays the first clip. Oh well.

Lee

Director Of Video Production (yes this is made up)

http://www.yourmusicmuse.com


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Stephen CryeRe: Anyone using Vegas to edit video from Canon XF100 or XF105 or XF300 or XF305?
by on Apr 15, 2012 at 2:04:56 am

Thanks Dave! (sorry it took me so long to reply).

It is good to know that this will work. BUT ... very very annoying that no other manufactureres but Sony take the time to write apps like Sony PMB that do this for us! It is also very annoying that we have to resort to going to forums and benefiting from experts to figure this out. Without your tips, if I were to buy the AC260, I'm sure I would have tried to just drop the multiple clips right into Vegas, and would have suffered the glitches from the files not being split at GoP boundaries!

I've tried to get Sony PMB to read files created from non-Sony cams, but it balks. If Panny won't help us and write a utility, I wonder if anyone could hack PMB?

Oh well,

Steve

Win7 Pro X64 on Dell T3400, MultiTB SATA, 8GB RAM Vegas 10e (and 11) x64 DVDA 5.2(build 133) Sony HDR-CX550V


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