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30fps and 60fps

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Darren Campbell30fps and 60fps
by on Oct 1, 2010 at 9:16:33 pm

I have several clips in one timeline and some were recorded at 30fps, and others 60fps (I was using Fraps). I plan on rendering it all at 60fps, how would this affect the 30fps clips?


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Danny HaysRe: 30fps and 60fps
by on Oct 2, 2010 at 12:05:31 am

It'll probably just double up on each frame. What format are you rendering to at 60fps? mpg2, 720p60 and wmv 1080p60 are the only two I can find in Vegas Pro 9.



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Philip PhanRe: 30fps and 60fps
by on Oct 4, 2010 at 9:04:41 am

Are you sure it's 30 fps or 29.97? Rendering 29.97 out to 60 fps was a huge pain for us. Be sure to check your results for any clipping, ghosting, and stuttering.

If you are getting any of the above issues, consider using Twixtor to help address that.

Perfect Take Productions


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Danny HaysRe: 30fps and 60fps
by on Oct 4, 2010 at 6:13:07 pm

I'm actually talking 29.97 and 59.94. When you click on a file in Vegas's Project media tab ot explorer tab, it'll tell the res and framerate and format just unter the window.
I don't see any pourpose rendering a 29.97 or 30 to 59.94 or 60 as
you wont realy get that many different frames since the original clip doesn't have that many. Also what can you play it on anyway?
I don't have a camera yet that records at that high framerate, so I downloaded some sample .mts files from the Panasonic TM700 HD camcorder. They are ACVHD .mts 1920 x 1080 x12 59.94 progressive files. They are highly compressed and even my i7 can play them back without stuttering.I was able to render one as .WMV 1920 x 1080 59.94 and it plays and looks fantastic. The best looking video I've ever seen by far from a camera under 1000$. Bluray discs don't support 1920 x 1080p 59.94 so unless your going to play them on a fast computer or in their original format from the camera's HDMI out, there's no otherways to play them yet. Vegas Pro 9, CS5's Premier and After Effects can edit the .mts files and render as .wmv and that's good enough for me right now. Fast moving video would look great at that framerate, or making some slow motion, half speed would have 30 frames per second and look as good as regular HD.
Here's a link where some samples are if your interested. Look at the
"60p-orshe - 10643698 - 18470355.mts" It is miss spelled I know but it's the second from the top. I may have to buy one of these cameras.
Hope this helps, Danny Hays



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Philip PhanRe: 30fps and 60fps
by on Oct 4, 2010 at 8:31:11 pm

Danny -

Yeah, I agree with you - there's no point in going from 29.97 to 59.94. The additional info is very interesting, I'll check it out. I don't see the link in your post, can you put it in?

Going back to the original post, though.... the main issue is that going from 30 to 60 or (29.97 to 59.94) has always looked like crap to us. There's a reason why people shoot at 60 fps. No one shoots at 30 fps with the purpose of playing at 60 fps unless they're intentionally trying to do something unconventional. It seems more functional to use 30 fps across the board, no?

So to answer his original question ("what happens to the 30 fps footage?"), my answer is that the 30 fps footage will be adversely affected.

As you mentioned, there's doubling up of every other frame. So while the action is smooth with the native 59.94 footage, the 29.97 footage looks choppy when played at that framerate. To smooth out the action, there has to be either frame blending (causes ghosting), or pixel motion blending (causes warping). So the choices available are all undesirable. Twixtor appears to be the best solution for minimizing the warping, but even that has limitations.

I think he should render the entire project at 30 or 24 fps to preserve the smoothness and integrity of the entire piece.

Perfect Take Productions


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