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Has Premiere killed Vegas pro?

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Joel MielleHas Premiere killed Vegas pro?
by on Jul 23, 2010 at 2:16:03 am

Has anyone out there used Premiere CS5 yet with the new mercury engine? From what I've seen so far, it's capable of taking over the industry making Final Cut pro and Sony Vegas Pro redundant. I would love to hear from a non biased person what their thoughts are comparing Vegas & Premiere CS5. As a long time Vegas user, I like the idea of the compatibility between after FX and Premiere. I'm currently shooting a feature film, and I'm thinking of converting to CS5 for the edit instead of Vegas Pro. You can see behind the scenes footage and photos on our blog. http://sixloversmovie.blogspot.com/

If you've used Premiere CS5, any advice or suggestion would be appreciated.

Filmmaker http://www.sixlovers.com


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Norman WillisRe: Reports of Vegas Pro's Death are Premature?
by on Jul 23, 2010 at 3:57:49 am

I dunno. I have not bought CS5 yet, so maybe I don't meet your criteria; but as far as CS5 'killing' Vegas Pro, I really doubt it.

I have had (and still have) some complaints with Vegas, and so I shopped the options fairly hard: but when I stopped to think about it, I realized that Vegas has pretty much everything I need, either native or in plug-in form, and for a whole lot less than CS5. And it really is very easy to use. And the Vegas COW forum is the best.

I'd like to see lots more native 3D FX, or a Sony-made 3D effects add-on (comparable to After Effects, and/or Boris RED). And I think it is backwards that Sony does not support P2 (because limiting support is not how one dominates an industry); but all in all, at least so far, and perhaps speaking only for myself, I have stopped looking at other NLE's. The grass just isn't greener anywhere else.

Norman Willis
http://www.nazareneisrael.org


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Joel MielleRe: Reports of Vegas Pro's Death are Premature?
by on Jul 23, 2010 at 4:25:35 am

It seems that Adobe likes to take over the industry with quality products and aggressive marketing . They did it in print and web, why not video. I'm a long time fan of Sony Vegas, I absolutely love editing with it. My only issue is the way it's perceived in the industry and not many high end professionals seem to use Vegas. I don't like the color grading in Vegas, although you can get around that with Magic bullets looks. I'm a big fan of After effects, if it would only link better with Vegas, it would be perfect. I don't really want to learn another package but then again I don't want to be left behind. I'm just wondering what Sony has up their sleeve for the next Vegas version. I have three weeks to make up my mind. With 1 terrabyte of 1080p footage to cut, I need something damn stable!!!

Filmmaker http://www.sixlovers.com


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Norman WillisRe: Reports of Vegas Pro's Death are Premature?
by on Jul 23, 2010 at 5:18:40 am

>> My only issue is the way it's perceived in the industry and not many high end professionals seem to use Vegas.

Well, if popularity/acceptance is your main concern, then why not use FCP? (But then, who really cares what other people think?)

>> I'm just wondering what Sony has up their sleeve for the next Vegas version. I have three weeks to make up my mind.

Is Sony planning to release Vegas 10.0 in three weeks time? But even if they are, I am not sure I would trust 1TB of high-value footage to an x.0 release. (I have learned the hard way.)

>>I have three weeks to make up my mind. With 1 terrabyte of 1080p footage to cut, I need something damn stable!!!

It sounds like this is your real main concern. And I share it with you. Nothing else matters if the system is not stable. But lots of guys have stable boxes. What is your detailed hardware config? Could that be your real issue?

I am doing great on 9.0e, but I had all sorts of issues with a, b and c (and somehow I missed d altogether, but I understand it had lots of problems).

How is 9.0e doing for you? Is it stable on your machine? And how about running a test with these big files, maybe make a whole bunch of quick dummy cuts and slap on a ton of dummy FX, and render it out (just to see how it behaves)? Then you can see if it is going to be stable, or if it is going to fall over on you.

It is just a thought.

Norman Willis
http://www.nazareneisrael.org


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Joel MielleRe: Reports of Vegas Pro's Death are Premature?
by on Jul 23, 2010 at 5:59:40 am



I'm running Vista 64bit with dual Xeon quad core workstation @ 2.80ghz with 8gig ram. Plus the NVIDIA Quadro FX 1700 card.

I have two striped drives for my editing and then data drives.

All seems to work fine and 1080P looks incredible and plays in real time without effects in full quality. My only issue is the amount of crashes. Every 5 minutes it hangs up on me. It never did that on my older system.

Vegas is version 9.0D

Another issue is that sometimes all my clips turn green! On my older 32 bit system this happened once in a blue moon but they used to be red.

So yeah, these issues are a real concern to me. I understand that crashes are inevitable with any machine and Final Cut pro also excels at it, but every five minutes is ridiculous.

I understand I need more ram but these crashes occur by just simply playing a basic timeline.

Any suggestions?


Filmmaker http://www.sixlovers.com


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Alf HannaRe: Reports of Vegas Pro's Death are Premature?
by on Jul 23, 2010 at 12:44:02 pm

Joel, these kind of crashes do not happen on my similar Windows 7 64 bit machine. I've just done a simple time line of over 1 hour on Vegas, no problems.

I would suspect there is something wrong with your hardware. Since I don't have striped drives, I would start there with my suspicions. See if you can do a simple timeline like you state, with no striping. Also, check to make sure you downloaded the 64 bit version, as it's easy to download the wrong version. I did it and had problems that instantly went away when I downloaded the 64 bit version. Are your crashes blue screens of death or just that Vegas ends without warning? If the machine is actually hanging up (ie. locking up and then needing a full reboot), I would *highly* suspect the hardware, maybe even the memory being root cause. A bad drive controller or motherboard could also cause this. Unlikely it's your video card. And likely you will have the same problem with Adobe. Best of luck.

Alf


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Norman WillisRe: Reports of Vegas Pro's Death are Premature?
by on Jul 23, 2010 at 3:12:39 pm

Joel, I have C:\ and D:\ both striped in Raid 0 (two disks each). I had no end of problems with 9.0a, b and c. (I was out of the loop for 9.0d, but I understand it was even worse.) However, I have had no problems with 9.0e. None. Nada. Zip. I just edited a two hour project, and maybe one crash (but that one was my fault).

When 10.0 comes out, it is going to have to be really, really good before I will trade up. So how about trying 9.0e, both x32 and x64, and see how they work? (Might as well start with something free :)

I am told, by the way, that Raid 0 striped on C:\ does not really help all that much, so just as soon as I finish with this project I plan to put D:\ in RAID 5 with three disks, and backup C:\ externally. Please let us know how it goes.

Norman Willis
http://www.nazareneisrael.org


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Ken BennettRe: Reports of Vegas Pro's Death are Premature?
by on Jul 23, 2010 at 5:29:24 pm

This all concerns me very much. I'm new to Vegas coming from 20 years using Video Toaster and seeing their SpeedEDIT slowly dying. I'm now trying to start all new projects in Vegas Pro 9.0e but having problems with my current project (read my posts "Why Does Vegas Captured Clips Crash.."). If Vegas is going to end up following VT into the ground, I'd like to know before I invest much more time and energy into learning Vegas. Most of that will depend if my problems can be solved. If 25% of my clips are going to be crashing Vegas, I gotta find a better NLE.

I do have Premiere CS4. Never used. Never even opened it up. But I have it and I can get CS5 if this is actually a better NLE. But before I do something like that, I want to give Vegas a chance.

Ken

Ken Bennett
Video Adventures
Capturing Your Life's Adventures!


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Norman WillisRe: Reports of Vegas Pro's Death are Premature?
by on Jul 23, 2010 at 6:54:54 pm

Ken,

I am a relative newcomer to Vegas, but from what I am told, many people thought that it was a far better NLE back when it was owned by Sonic Foundry. There has been some disgruntlement since it was taken over by Sony, but Sony recently announced that they would be trying to make it a 'truly professional' NLE, and would be trying to take over the market. We'll see. I had a lot of problems with 9.0a, b and c (and missed d). 9.0e for me is very solid. I am sorry to hear that you are not having as happy an experience.

A lot of people find that hardware has a lot to say about whether Vegas is stable, or not. The consensus seems to be that if you get Intel-standard everything, you cannot lose; and if you veer from that, you are taking your chances.

If I may ask, what is your hardware config? And who manufactures your parts? And are you running x32 or x64?

Norman Willis
http://www.nazareneisrael.org


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Chuck PullenRe: Reports of Vegas Pro's Death are Premature?
by on Jul 23, 2010 at 7:36:08 pm

To answer Joel's original question, “No Joel Premiere didn’t kill Vegas, SONY DID!”

I have been using Vegas since almost the very beginning. Every version promises more, and comes up very short. This last version has me finally fed up enough to switch completely. I just spent a lot of money to upgrade my system to 64 bit to take advantage of all of the new features and abilities that Sony claims 9.0 has. Just about every damn thing I do causes Vegas to crash! This system has been checked out by multiple people, I have rebuilt it and reinstalled Vegas multiple times, E-mailed Sony MANY times with no helpful response. I finally decided to upgrade to CS5, buy a Quadro card, and damn is it sweet!

Now don’t get me wrong, I really miss the idea of editing Vegas, but at the end of the day I, like you, can’t afford to use something that is going to constantly crash, fail to live up to it’s promises, create stress and cause setbacks, all of which costs me money…Buy a Quadro and give CS5 a chance!


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Joel MielleRe: Reports of Vegas Pro's Death are Premature?
by on Jul 24, 2010 at 11:33:15 am

I really believe CS5 is the future now. I'm hearing nothing but great reports. Vegas was perfect for me for DV, I had no issues except for the occasional lockup, but for full hi-def it's a different story. Anyone want to purchase Vegas 9?

Filmmaker http://www.sixlovers.com


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Norman WillisRe: Reports of Vegas Pro's Death are Premature?
by on Jul 24, 2010 at 1:52:54 pm

Well, it's whatever works best for you. If you download the CS5 trial and you like that better, then go for it. Same with Avid. Same with Edius.

All I'm saying is that there are guys with stable boxes who love Vegas, and it might be easier/cheaper to get a new mobo and chipset than to buy CS5. But of course you have to go with what works best for you.

The main thing is that you get something you are happy with. Please let us know how it goes.

Norman Willis
http://www.nazareneisrael.org


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Joel MielleRe: Reports of Vegas Pro's Death are Premature?
by on Jul 24, 2010 at 11:26:28 am

Even after the update to 9e, Vegas still crashes regularly. It always happens when I press the spacebar to play the timeline. I will attempt to put in additional ram and use an external raid of hard drives to see if that makes any difference. Failing that, it will be CS5 and a wig to make up for all the hair loss.

Filmmaker http://www.sixlovers.com


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Norman WillisRe: Reports of Vegas Pro's Death are Premature?
by on Jul 24, 2010 at 1:55:54 pm

Hey Joel,

How about Format C:\ and reload Windows?



Norman Willis
http://www.nazareneisrael.org


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Joel MielleRe: Reports of Vegas Pro's Death are Premature?
by on Jul 24, 2010 at 11:14:37 pm

I've actually already done that, it's a fresh clean system. I just wonder if the other guys using Vegas are working in 1080P AVIs as I have no issues with DV. I really don't want to learn another system but seem to be forced that way. I'll still give it another go with additional ram and different drives just incase.

Filmmaker http://www.sixlovers.com


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Joel MielleRe: Reports of Vegas Pro's Death are Premature?
by on Jul 24, 2010 at 12:18:58 am

My striped drives are separate to the C drive, they are two striped into one and they do work well. I can preview in full high def using the black magic extreme card through HDMI on a sony 1080p monitor with dissolves, color grade all in real time. It's not my hardware, it's Vegas and they keep getting my error report sent to them every 5 minutes. my system was designed by the company who handles the Australian defense force animation computers and all the components are of the same highest grade. Nothing else ever crashes and I put After Effects through the grinder for hours on end without a hiccup. That's why I believe that Adobe is more stable. I however just downloaded the Vegas 9.0e version and played around for half an hour so far without crashing or green clips! Regardless this new version has to prove itself or I will be switching to Premiere CS5. As Apple is focusing more on ipads and iphone and less on Final cut Pro, it's another reason why I believe Premiere has a very strong future been abble to work across both platforms. Are there any rumors or news of what's to be expected in Vegas 10? it better be a major update or they will be left behind! Despite my gripes I love working with Sony Vegas, but it's not a matter of what I like but what actually works for me. If I was starting again, I would go CS5.

Filmmaker http://www.sixlovers.com


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Ken BennettRe: Reports of Vegas Pro's Death are Premature?
by on Jul 24, 2010 at 5:16:06 am

It now appears that I have wasted the past 9 months gearing up for Vegas and learning what I can only to find that once I put it in full production it can't handle basic editing tasks. To add to the clips crashing Vegas, now when I start to make a few adjustments (like simply putting a clip in slo-mo) it crashes. Saying I'm disappointed in the Vegas software is putting it lightly. It seems Vegas could be a really cool NLE but just not in the real world of professional editors.

Ken

Ken Bennett
Video Adventures
Capturing Your Life's Adventures!


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Kevin McCarthyRe: Reports of Vegas Pro's Death are Premature?
by on Jul 24, 2010 at 5:40:05 pm

You definately have a problem with your system, but I assure you it is not Vegas. Vegas is a PRO system that seldom, if ever crashes. Find a computer geek and your problems will be solved.



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Ken BennettRe: Reports of Vegas Pro's Death are Premature?
by on Jul 24, 2010 at 6:28:16 pm

Yeah, that's the key. I need someone who knows Vegas and computers to sit here and figure this out. I do really like Vegas when it is working. If you've got a stable system, just wish I could mirror it.

Thanks,

Ken Bennett
Video Adventures
Capturing Your Life's Adventures!


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Norman WillisRe: Standard Hardware and a Fresh Install May Help
by on Jul 24, 2010 at 6:40:39 pm

Ken, two questions:

Is all of your hardware 'standard'? Or is any of it 'fancy' (i.e., 'bleeding edge')?

Also, is it possible that a simple reload of Windows (corrupt drivers or registry) would help?


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Ken BennettRe: Standard Hardware and - My System
by on Jul 25, 2010 at 3:12:22 am

Here is my system hardware:
Supermicro X7DWA-N, 16GB DDR2 FB-DIMM Mem, dual Xeon 2.83GHz 8-cores, NVIDIA GeForce 8800GT, RocketRAID 2313 & 2221 controllers, VideoToaster card, 500GB system drive, four 1TB storage drives, 4TB internal RAID-5 for video and 6TB external RAID-5 backup & 2nd video drive.

Software:
Vegas Pro 9.0e, VT[5b] and Adobe Production Suite CS4. DirectX 10, QT Player 7.6.6, TMPGEnc and Firefox.

OS: Windows 7 64-bit.

I recently did reload WIN 7. If this helps anybody, great. let me know the Good, the Bad and the Ugly.

Thanks.

Ken Bennett
Video Adventures
Capturing Your Life's Adventures!


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bas emmenRe: Has Premiere killed Vegas pro?
by on Jul 24, 2010 at 5:35:57 pm

About the crashes

Do you import H264 files? ( MOV - MP4 )
this is caused bij quicktimeplayer. Vegas depends on it
Since quicktime is upgraded Vegas crashes when importing more then about 2GB of files at once.
There are different threads about this:
http://www.slashcam.com/EN/info/-Sony-Vegas-Pro--New-Quicktime-update-destr...

solution is to un-install quicktime and install a old version. (7.5.x)
Goto apple old versions
http://support.apple.com/downloads/#quicktime

Do you use itunes? Watch out. Itunes depends on the latest quicktime and will update the old one again!


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Joel MielleRe: Has Premiere killed Vegas pro?
by on Jul 24, 2010 at 11:18:53 pm

No I don't work with H264, Vegas doesn't handle it too well. I convert the files with Neoscene to AVI files. All runs smooth and well until it crashes. Computer doesn't lock up, only Vegas comes up with error message. Frustrating as I put the very best recommended components in the system. Has to be Vegas as After Effects runs like a dream.

Filmmaker http://www.sixlovers.com


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Alf HannaRe: Has Premiere killed Vegas pro?
by on Jul 25, 2010 at 5:49:55 am

Joel, the fact that you crash when you 'push the spacebar to play the clip" is not a Vegas problem. Many thousands of us do that each day with Vegas with no crashes. I also work with Neoscene on Win 64, with no crashes (yet). The fact that you and a few others are having these problems does not point to Vegas being the problem. It points to something with your system.

Perhaps you are using a plug in that is not compatable with W64. Perhaps it's some component of your system. Maybe something is failing. I have a very vanilla system, with only a eSata drive (external). I don't use many plug ins, and the ones I use are supporting W64.

So go back to your hardware and strip out the oddities. Something is incapable, and you are likely to have it move with you to Adobe, or whatever other system you think will solve world hunger.

Good luck.

Alf


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Norman WillisRe: Has Premiere killed Vegas pro?
by on Jul 25, 2010 at 9:48:38 am

>>Joel, the fact that you crash when you 'push the spacebar to play the clip" is not a Vegas problem. Many thousands of us do that each day with Vegas with no crashes. I also work with Neoscene on Win 64, with no crashes (yet). The fact that you and a few others are having these problems does not point to Vegas being the problem. It points to something with your system.


Norman Willis
http://www.nazareneisrael.org


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Steele RutherfordRe: Has Premiere killed Vegas pro?
by on Oct 28, 2010 at 6:39:11 pm

I have Vegas Pro 9e 64 bit and Windows 7 64 bit but Vegas crashes every 5 F*^&*ing minutes. I'm only working on a three minute music video that has 6 video tracks on it. The video files are MTS or AVCHD. I have all the effects bypassed and it still crashes. I have 5 gb of ram, my processor overclocked to 3.08 ghz, and about a month ago reinstalled Windows 7. Why does Vegas keep on crashing, should I just trash it and go to Adobe?


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Norman WillisRe: Has Premiere killed Vegas pro?
by on Oct 28, 2010 at 6:51:29 pm

As was said before, if your system is not stable under Vegas, it will not be stable under Adobe (or anything else).

What is your initial clock speed? I would back off the overclock. Something is not working for you, and the overclock seems to be a potential candidate.

Other than that, have you checked your RAM?

Norman Willis
http://www.nazareneisrael.org


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Steele RutherfordRe: Has Premiere killed Vegas pro?
by on Oct 28, 2010 at 8:04:25 pm

Original clockspeed is 2.8 ghz, and I have 5 gb of ram. I also have Vegas Pro 9d (haven't updated it yet) on my laptop and it crashes all the time too. It's really not that they crash but they become unresponsive. They lock up and say Not Responding.


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Norman WillisRe: Has Premiere killed Vegas pro?
by on Oct 28, 2010 at 10:10:56 pm

Why not try 9.0e?

That seems to be the version that worked for most people. It should be a short download.

Norman Willis
http://www.nazareneisrael.org


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Steele RutherfordRe: Has Premiere killed Vegas pro?
by on Oct 28, 2010 at 8:24:15 pm

Reset my clockspeed to normal, opened Vegas, made two changes to the timeline and it locked up.


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Bill MashRe: Has Premiere killed Vegas pro?
by on Oct 29, 2010 at 1:11:55 am

I had some significant hair-pulling when I transitioned from NTSC DV to 1080p with AVCHD. It took me a combination of things that made thing progressively better. No guarantees / your mileage may vary.

Turn off media manager and disable all services that use it.

Check your event viewer, specifically application and systems for errors. Resolve errors you see and keep moving forward.

Split your OS paging file across multiple drives.

Don't render to C:drive

Check disk space on all applicable drives.

Degragment early and often diskeeper is a great piece of SW for this.

Use enditall SW to kill all unnecessary processes before opening your editor.

Download a trial of Cineform Neoscene and convert to intermediate format and try editing with that.

Good luck,

~Just because you can doesn't mean you should~


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Steele RutherfordRe: Has Premiere killed Vegas pro?
by on Oct 29, 2010 at 2:47:19 pm

Thanks for the help, Vegas seems to work whenever it feels like it. I'm pretty sure it's my video card that's causing all the problems. As for Adobe, I plan on getting that as soon as possible. After I upgrade my system.


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Ken BennettRe: Has Premiere killed Vegas pro?
by on Oct 29, 2010 at 5:28:44 pm

I was having a similar problem awhile back. Then I got a new GeForce GTX470 graphics card. Things improved greatly. I never loaded in 9.0d. I've been running 9.0e and have 10.0a installed.

You can do a lot of tweaking in Vegas to help make it more stable.

Ken Bennett
Video Adventures
Capturing Your Life's Adventures!


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Steele RutherfordRe: Has Premiere killed Vegas pro?
by on Oct 29, 2010 at 10:45:26 pm

Yeah I'm going to get that video card asap. I downloaded trial CS5 and I've been playing around with it for hours, not one lock up. I'm definitely buying full program after I upgrade my system.


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