Major Rendering Issue - Please Help!
by Chelsea Volz
on
Oct 12, 2008 at 10:37:25 pm
I've posted here before regarding this issue, however, I thought it was pertaining to my entire program.
Well, I've been working on this video for the past few months, I finally finished it. It's a little over three minutes long, contains alot of transitions. It has 3 Audio tracks and three video tracks.
At one point,after attempting to render it my program would shut down and once I couldn't open the video at all. Then someone told me to open the .veg.bak file and it worked. I was ecstatic. However, I still cannot render the video at all. I've tried rendering it in sections. Rendering a minute of the video to attempt to open and then go back and render another minute, etc. But, each and every time I attempt to render the video, it gets to about 4% (never exact) and my entire program freezes and then it shuts down.
Sometimes I get an Error Message like this one:
An error occured during the current operation.
An Exception has occurred.
Other times it just shuts down.
Now, I stopped using Sony Vegas for a long time because I thought this would happen to all of my videos upon trying to Render them. Someone also told me that the problem was just that I needed more memory and thats why I couldn't render any other videos. But then a couple days ago I actually rendered tow other videos and I'm assuming I can render all of my other ones as well.
The problem only seems to pertain to this video.
Now, the reason I'm latching on to this video so much is because it's my prize. I'm incredibly proud of it and I want to do whatever necessary to preserve it.
Re: Major Rendering Issue - Please Help! by John Rofrano on Oct 13, 2008 at 10:48:49 am
These problems are usually very hard to find. How much memory do you have? What format are you rendering to? Have you tried rendering to a different format? Also what format are the clips on the timeline? I can see both Quicktime and Windows Media in the dump you posted. Make sure you have the latest versions of Quicktime and Windows Media Player if that's what you are using. You can also try rendering some of your source files to a different format that doesn't cause the error and replace them in the media pool. There is something about the combination of source types and render type that is causing the problem and you just have to figure out what that combination is and avoid it.
Re: Major Rendering Issue - Please Help! by Chelsea Volz on Oct 13, 2008 at 4:26:41 pm
I have 2038 MB of RAM. My operating system in Windows Vista Home Premium - 32 bit. And my processor is an Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T5250 @ 1.50GHz - Not sure if you need any of that ... I was planning on purchasing 1GB more of memory. Would that help?
The majority of the video clips in the timeline are WMV... I wasn't even aware some of the clips were Quicktime. But I will redownload the latest versions of both Quicktime and Windows Media Player.
And yes, I have attempted to render the video in AVI, WMV and Quicktime formats, but they all crash.
How do I determine which format is causing the problem? What do you mean/How would I render some of the source files to a different format and replace them in the media pool? Do you mean re-download the clips and replace them in the timeline? Or just render the entire video in a different format? Or sections of the video?
I'm sorry for all the questions, I'm pretty much helpless when it comes to all of this technical stuff... But I can learn quick! So please don't be discouraged to help...
Re: Major Rendering Issue - Please Help! by John Rofrano on Oct 13, 2008 at 11:54:31 pm
With that processor I assume this is a laptop. That's not a lot of computing power for a heavily compositied project. Perhaps the CPU is overheating? This could cause memory READ errors.
> What do you mean/How would I render some of the source files to a different format and replace them in the media pool?
What I mean is start a new project and take the video that is the source of the first event and drop it on the timeline and render it to a DV AVI file. Then load the original project back up and go to the Project Media tab and find the video for the first event and right-click and select Replace... and point to the DV AVI file that you just rendered. This will replace the file everywhere that it is used in the project. Then try and render the project and see if it gets past the first event. If it does (and it didn't before) take more of the WMV source files and render them one at a time to DV AVI files. Then replace them one at a time in the Project Media. If this allows the render to continue then you know it's something about the WMV files that is causing the problem. Since you couldn't render even a minute it shouldn't take too long to tel if this approach is working.
Re: Major Rendering Issue - Please Help! by Chelsea Volz on Oct 14, 2008 at 12:37:05 am
When you say "the video that is the source of the first event and render it to a DV AVI file.", you mean the the entirety of the WMV video, not just the small clip I manipulated, correct?
Because the very first event that is in my timeline is just text from the Generated Media with my logo, etc.
Anywho... I've began rendering the original video clip I used, the first actual piece of media/video in the project. I will follow the rest of the steps as I understand them. I will come right back to let you know if it has worked and if it doesn't, I will ask you the other questions...
I'm only wondering because I've used these same clips in other projects that I've been able to render.
P.S. - When I go to Render > Type, I don't have the option of DV - AVI, I only have a .avi (media for windows) option. I'm not sure if that is the same thing...
Re: Major Rendering Issue - Please Help! by John Rofrano on Oct 14, 2008 at 12:46:36 am
Yes, I believe you understood the "intent" of my directions. For DV AVI use the AVI type with the NTSC DV or PAL DV (or their widescreen counterparts) templates depending on the attributes of your project.
It is odd that these clips work in other projects. Perhaps it's not the clips themselves. It could be a corrupt project file. You could try opening a new project simultaneously and cutting and pasting the events between them.
I'm just trying to thing of things to try to get you around this.
Re: Major Rendering Issue - Please Help! by Chelsea Volz on Oct 14, 2008 at 12:54:11 am
I'm not exactly sure, but I really appreciate all of your ideas. If there is a snag somewhere while doing this process, I will follow your next idea.
I'm not at all sure what NTSC DV or PAL DV are, but it seems to be working without that knowledge...
This approach is definitely working. I've been able to get it almost 33% of the way rendered using this process.
Is there something I can do to fix the WMV files because I have ALOT of DIFFERENT clips in this video and rendering all of these one by one would take a MILLION years, not to mention all of the space that it would consume because I would need to have a seperate render for each clip...
If I must do it this way, then of course, I will.
Just let me know, please. :D
Re: Major Rendering Issue - Please Help! by John Rofrano on Oct 14, 2008 at 1:05:31 am
Wow, I'm glad it's working. You could try a batch converter like Super(c) to convert all of the WMV's to DV. WMV is really an output format and it's very good for editing. It works, but DV AVI is much more efficient for editing.
Re: Major Rendering Issue - Please Help! by Chelsea Volz on Oct 14, 2008 at 1:50:00 am
Okay. So I just downloaded Super(C) and it's asking me for all of this information I have no idea about.
#1. Select the Output Container (there are all sorts of options but I chose WMV, just let me know if that is wrong.)
#2. Select the Output Video Codec (Because I chose WMV, there are these options: MS - mpeg4 - v1, MS-mpeg4 - v2, WMV7, WMV8)
#3. Select the output Audio Codec (For question number 2, i answered WMV8, but I dunno... There are these options since I've chosen certain answers, I guess: ADPCM IMA, ADPCM MICROSOFT, mp3, wma)
Then there is a section that says: Internal Encoders are Auto-Selected to Complete This Operation. And "FFmpeg" is chosen out of the following options: FFmpeg, MEncoder, FFmpeg2theora, RealProducer
There is a Video Section with the following options:
Disable Video
Stream Copy
Video Scale Size with ratios ranging from 128:96 to 480:320 or no change.
Aspect Option with ratios ranging from 1:1 to 16:9
Frame/Sec with the options: 23.976, 29.97, 25, 30
Bitrate kbps Section with the options ranging from: 768 to 29,040.
Then there are Quality Options: Hi-Quality, Top Quality, Stretch It, 48K Audio...
Then there is an Audio Section with the following options: Disable Audio & Stream Copy.
Under Sampling Freq there are the following options: 22050, 44100, 32000, 48000
There is a Channels Option with 1 or 2 available.
Bitrate kbps option with: 32, 48, 64, 80, 96, 128, 160, 192.
DVD Language Select AudioStream Track # with options: default, and then 1-24.
Then there is an OutPut section that says:
Encode to File Format: WMV
Use Video Codec: WMV8, 384:288(4:3), 768 kbps, 25fps
Use Audio Codec: wma, Stereo, 64 kbps, 44100 Hz, AudioStream(default) selected
Then there is a final section that tells me to drop a valid multimedia file and it will try to play or encode.
And finally, it gives me the option to: Encode(Active Files)
Play(Active Files / Streams)
Play the last Rendered File
Player Options
and
Cancel All
Re: Major Rendering Issue - Please Help! by John Rofrano on Oct 14, 2008 at 2:21:00 am
Actually you don't want WMV as the output container because you are trying to make AVI files. If your project is NTSC try these settings:
1. Output Container: avi 2. Output Video Codec: M-JPEG 3. Output Audio Codec: WAV-(pcm 16 little-endian)
[x] MEncoder
Video: (no change)
Aspect: 4:3
Frame/Sec: 29.976
Audio: (no checks)
Sample Freq: 48000
Channels: 2
This should give you a file that can be rendered easily in Vegas. You should try and match the properties of the source files as closely as possible. If you project is PAL use 5:4 aspect and 25 fps instead.
Re: Major Rendering Issue - Please Help! by John Rofrano on Oct 14, 2008 at 3:25:23 am
> How do I check what settings my project is in?
In Vegas use File | Properties... or Alt+Enter to bring up the Project Properties window. This will tell you the video and audio properties of your project.
> Sorry if that's a stupid question...
The only stupid question is the one you don't ask. If it's worth asking... it deserves an answer. (that's how we all learn) ;-)
Re: Major Rendering Issue - Please Help! by Chelsea Volz on Oct 14, 2008 at 11:17:18 pm
Thank you so incredibly much for all of your wonderful help. I appreciate your patience more than you know. I haven't converted any of my files yet, but I am beginning to now. After they are all converted, though... How do I go about replacing the clips in my project? Do I just replace them in my project one by one? Or is there an easier, mass way to do so(like the way you showed me when I simply clicked on 'Replace')?
And also, what should I do about the generated media thats in the timeline?
I have quite a few solid black frames(no image) with audio playing beneath them and then at the beginning, I have the introduction as a black/text generated media frame.
Should/How I convert those?
And one more thing, I just opened Super C and this is the message I received: Free Disk(C) Required: 20 BG :: Found: 148 GB
Total Ram:: Required 512 MB :: Found 2,042 MB
Available RAM :: Required 176MB:: Found 504 MB
CPU Speed :: Required: 1800 MHz :: Found: 1399 MHz[PROBLEM]
Screen Size :: Required: 1024:768 :: Found: 1280:800
OS :: Required: Windows (R):: Found: Win Vista [PROBLEM]
Due to the detected problems, you may experience errors when encoding large input files, or when encoding to Ninetendo, WMV, H.264 or when rendering to a high VideoScaleSize larger than 768:576
They may also cause program instability, severe encoding slowness or an out-of-synch issue.
"OS Problem causes all kinds of errors with most output containers/codecs.
Could be due to a slow PC, very low available RAM or a Rebooting is required.
------
Do you think I should still attempt to use this program?
o.O
Re: Major Rendering Issue - Please Help! by John Rofrano on Oct 15, 2008 at 3:37:43 am
> After they are all converted, though... How do I go about replacing the clips in my project?
Go to the Project Media tab and find a video that you have a replacement file for. Then right-click that video in the Project Media and select Replace... and point to the AVI file that you just rendered. This will replace the file everywhere that it is used in the project. Do this for all of the files you re-rendered.
> And also, what should I do about the generated media thats in the timeline?
Nothing. Vegas loves it's own generated media. No problems there.
> CPU Speed :: Required: 1800 MHz :: Found: 1399 MHz[PROBLEM] > OS :: Required: Windows (R):: Found: Win Vista [PROBLEM]
Well... a 1.5Ghz processor is really underpowered to be doing video work. Especially a lot of compositing or using highly compressed WMV formats like you are. It's just warning you of that and the fact that it doesn't like Vista.
Since there is nothing you can do about either of those, I would ignore it.
Re: Major Rendering Issue - Please Help! by Chris Franklin on Oct 16, 2008 at 5:38:48 pm
> CPU Speed :: Required: 1800 MHz :: Found: 1399 MHz[PROBLEM]
> OS :: Required: Windows (R):: Found: Win Vista [PROBLEM]
Or that could be the origin of the problem in the first place. It sounds like you're moving forward with the suggestions that John made, but if you're still having problems, you might try backing up all of your project files and media files and then try to find someone else that has the same version of Vegas and see if you can copy those files to their computer and render from there. Or it may be easier to see if there is hardware that you can buy to fix the problem.
Re: Major Rendering Issue - Please Help! by Chelsea Volz on Oct 17, 2008 at 3:55:58 am
I was actually beginning to think the same thing.
That its simply my computer...
I have a plan.
I'm going to attempt to purchase a new computer and also Sony Vegas 8.0 Pro. Now, I am still going to attempt all of the suggestions that John has given to me. One - because he took the time to really give me some awesome advice and Two - because I'd really love to save this video and not risk losing it in the process of changing all of it over. Which brings me to my next question: Is there any way to transfer all of my existing projects from one computer to another or from one version of vegas to another, that you know of?
Or would I lose everything I've been working on/everything that is completed?
The new computer would be a Sony VAIO® LT Series PC/TV All-in-One
Here are some specs:
Hard Drive
* Interface : Serial ATA
* Speed : 7200rpm
* Capacity : 1TB18 (500GB2x2)
Processor
* Front Side Bus Speed : 800MHz
* L2 Cache : 3MB
* Speed : 2.40GHz1
* Technology : Intel® Centrino® Duo Processor Technology
* Type : Intel® Core? 2 Duo Processor T8300
Memory
* Maximum : 4GB14
* Speed : 667MHz
* Type : DDR2
* Installed : 4GB14 PC2-5300 (2GBx2)
Graphics
* Chipset : Mobile Intel® PM965 Express Chipset
* Processor : NVIDIA® GeForce® 8400M GT GPU with Total Available Graphics Memory of 1535MB (max.)10
* TV Tuner : Yes - Internal (NTSC/ATSC Support)
* Video RAM : 256MB dedicated video RAM
-----
Would that be a good enough computer to successfully run and render projects like the one I'm having problems with? Or would this computer still cause issues with Sony Vegas?
Re: Major Rendering Issue - Please Help! by John Rofrano on Oct 17, 2008 at 10:53:32 am
That is one awesome sounding laptop and it looks like it should be great for editing video. There is nothing magical about transferring you projects over. You just need to copy all of the project files along with the source files. XP and Vista have a utility that will do this for you. On XP you can find it at:
Start | All programs | Accessories | System Tools | Files and Settings Transfer Wizard
What you might want to do is purchase a small hard drive like this Western Digital My Passport Essential and backup your files to it and then restore them to the new laptop. They come in sizes from 160GB - 500GB. The advantage here is that you will have a backup of all your work and will hopefully continue to backup your work on a weekly basis for safe keeping. (I am a big believer in backup and use Acronis TrueImage to back up my hard drive daily!)
I personally keep each video project in a separate folder with the project veg in the root and all of the source files and other media in subfolders. This way I can easily copy the whole folder to a backup or archive drive and know that I have everything. Some people keep their project files under My Documents and their source files scattered all over their hard drive. I do not recommend working this way but that's just my personal preference.
Re: Major Rendering Issue - Please Help! by Chelsea Volz on Oct 18, 2008 at 3:36:17 am
It's actually not a laptop, it's the new Sony Vaio DeskTop Computer.
I'm not sure if a laptop is necessarily the best way to go with all of the space I use for my projects.
How much memory do you think is the right amount? Or a more than just necessary?
Do you think a laptop would suffice?
I guess I'm just asking for the recommended specifications for all the things you mentioned earlier - CPU, harddrive, memory, etc.
The external harddrive sounds like a fantastic idea! Thank you so much.
I actually have an external drive. Its an AcomData external hard drive Firewire E5(not sure if any of that is good) the only problem is that I don't have the proper USB cable for it. I only have a FireWire USB cable but my laptop doesn't have a Firewire port so I've been having a really hard time attempting to find an adapter.
But I will, hopefully...
I have made the mistake of saving everything in my Documents, but I've saved the clips in their own individual folders based on the certain show the clips are from - Or at least I've attempted to do them all that way.
Now, after I've gotten the cord, lets say I'm on Vegas and I've opened up my project. To transfer it to the Harddrive, I would click Save As and I would chose to save it in the Harddrive? Or would I render it into the Harddrive?
I'd prefer to just save it as the project because then I can open it directly into the new version of Vegas.
When it comes to the actual clips outside of the video (the places they come from), I would go to each individual source clip and do what? Simply "Send To" - Harddrive...? or...?
When it comes to the .veg file, I'm not exactly sure what you mean or how I would go about saving them in seperate files in the HardDrive. Or in the hard drive period. Would you mind explaining a bit further?
I apologize.
Re: Major Rendering Issue - Please Help! by John Rofrano on Oct 18, 2008 at 2:34:48 pm
That's not a laptop? Those specs have a Centrino processor and Mobile Intel® PM965 Express Chipset which are laptop components and when I Googled "Sony VAIO® LT Series" all I saw were laptops. I guess they make desktops out of laptop components now.
I prefer a desktop over a laptop because you really need multiple hard drives to do video editing. Your files should not be kept on the C: drive and most laptops only have one drive which makes them a "minimal" platform for editing. If the computer you are looking at has two 500GB drives configure as two drives that would be best. If the two drives and in a RAID making them a single 1TB drive, that would not be as good (although not as bad a single non-RAID drive)
The easiest way to transfer files is to open the windows file explorer for both drives and drag and drop the folder between them. You could Copy and Paste also, it accomplishes the same thing.
As for your firewire drive, just get a firewire card for your laptop. I bought one for mine and it works great. They are only about $25-$49 so it's not a investment. Firewire is better than USB so that is a preferable way to go, but I couldn't resist those WD drives, they are just so small and easy to carry around.
As for processing power, I would not buy anything less that a quad-core today. How long do you plan to keep this computer? If you buy a new computer every year that a dual-core may be fine. But if you keep a computer for a few years then you have to think about how that dual-core is going to perform 3-4 years from now. So I would recommend a quad-core to "future-proof" your purchase.
Re: Major Rendering Issue - Please Help! by Chelsea Volz on Oct 18, 2008 at 11:53:01 pm
I have no idea why the desktop has Centrino/Mobile components or even that they were laptop components, but I guess so...
And yeah, ALOT of the Sony Vaio computers are Laptops. There are a few desktops, though.
Would the firewire card work for the desktop as well? o.O
And why isn't the T1 just as good as two 500GB drives configured as two, because in the specifications for that computer is says that the T1 IS two 500GB drives configures as two...?
How would the specs read to help me understand if the two 500GB drives are configured as two?
And I definitely can't afford to purchase a new computer every year so I would love for it to work for four years!
Here are a few links to some of the computers I was checking out and the specs I'd like.
Specs I want:
4GB Memory
2 500 GB Harddrives just because you said it was the best, lol.
A third hard drive for all of my surplus media although I wouldn't know how to save it that way.
I really want a Intel Processor AND motherboard, but I'm not sure how the specs read for that. Is that what an Intel Centrino Duo Processor is? Or is that JUST the processor?
And I want a Quad-Core processor.
Can you check them out and tell me which looks best, which specs I can live without and which you recommend, etc.?
Also, out of Dell of Sony, which do you think is better? Or do you have a different suggestion?
I would be enternally grateful! :D
Re: Major Rendering Issue - Please Help! by John Rofrano on Oct 19, 2008 at 1:38:21 am
> I have no idea why the desktop has Centrino/Mobile components or even that they were laptop components, but I guess so...
OK, it all makes sense now that you gave me the link. Those are the All-In-One computers which are meant to compete with the iMac. They call them "desktops" but technically they are just laptops on a stick with a detached keyboard. ;-) Still they are pretty cool machines if that's what you like but they are not expandable at all. What you buy is what you get.
It is impossible for me to give you advice about what computer you should buy without first understanding how you will use it. I'm guessing that since your source files are WMV that you are not a videographer doing this for a living and need a machine that you can "bet your clients" on. Where did those files come from? Do you own a video camera and that is the source of most of your editing? Do you have or are you planning to work with HD footage and want burn Blu-ray discs? If you want to use the computer for the next four years will you be editing HD 4 years from now? These are all thing you need to consider.
You have to balance your desire for video editing with your need for other things you will use the computer for. If video editing is a hobby and you like the All-In-One design, the Sony VAIO® LT Series PC/TV All-in-One (VGC-LT38E) that you linked to with the 1TB drive looks like it would be a fine computer for your casual video work.
If you want to get a Quad-Core then I would abandon the All-In-One's and just get a regular tower desktop like this HP Pavilion Elite d5000t ATX series which will render twice as fast because it has a Quad-Core (that's 4 CPU cores instead of 2 in a Dual-Core)
The Dell links did not work because they were in your shopping cart and I could not access them but is doesn't matter because personally I could never recommend a Dell in good conscience. (Long story, documented on my web site).
I don't want to steer you away from the All-In-One's but understand that you are paying a premium for that convenience and you will pay more money for a less powerful computer than if you buy a traditional tower and a display.
> Also... When you say "source files" did you mean the . zip file? Because after I extracted the media from those... I deleted them. :(
When I say source I'm referring to the files that you have placed on the Vegas timeline (i.e., those pesky WMV files that wouldn't render).
Re: Major Rendering Issue - Please Help! by Chelsea Volz on Oct 19, 2008 at 2:21:14 am
No. I am not a videographer. Lol. I'm a highschool senior.
I edit music video type-things using clips from television shows. I manipulate the clips to tell a story thats based around certain song lyrics. (It's become quite a fad on YouTube). However, when I go to college next fall, I plan to Major in English and Minor in Television Production.
I get my clips from fan websites about particular shows, the ones from the video that won't render are from http://brooke-lucas.org/media/. I do not own a video camera, but when I get to college I know I will begin to use one, etc.
The same goes for the High-Definition footage and the Blu-Ray discs.
And yes, I plan to edit four years from now.
I plan to use this computer for editing the same type of videos that I do now, as well as, any projects I will have in class in college.
I also plan to use it for web-surfing, watching DVD's and ripping clips from them and of course, my future career (at least until it dies).
I definitely agree with the VAIO LP Series and that it would be good for what I am doing now... However, would it still work properly and perform well once I begin actual course-work in college?
Will it still perform when I begin using it for my career?
I think it is smartest to get the Quad Core, but I've never had an HP computer. Are they reliable?
The reason I've focused so much on Sony Vaio is because I had a computer like it about a year ago that performed amazingly for about 3 years until it was stolen. So, I'm weary about trying other computers.
However, if you believe that the HP would suit all of my possible uses, then I will trust your judgement.
Lol! The only reason I suggested the Dell's was because my roomate has one and he loves it, etc. Although he uses it particularly for gaming.
I hate Dells, too. But I'm glad you gave me your opinion as well, because I was actually being persuaded by this pesky sales dude.
When you say I am paying more money for the convenience, did you mean of the All-In-One? And how exactly is it an all in one? Simply because it has... What?
I think I will go with the traditional tower&display, but do you know which is the best? Which would suit my possible future/current needs? And which is the one that will last the longest?
Do you know if Vaio has a traditional tower/display, because that is the type of computer I used to have? Although, it looks as though they don't make them anymore.( I could surely look it up.)
Re: Major Rendering Issue - Please Help! by John Rofrano on Oct 19, 2008 at 3:58:45 am
OK this gives me a lot of good information.
> No. I am not a videographer. Lol. I'm a highschool senior.
I taught an after school video workshop a few years back. It's great to see high school students showing an interest in making movies. Good for you!
> I definitely agree with the VAIO LP Series and that it would be good for what I am doing now... However, would it still work properly and perform well once I begin actual course-work in college?
Good point! I would check with your future college and find out what video editing software they use. If they use Apple Final Cut you will need a Mac. Since the Intel based Mac's can run XP via "bootcamp" an iMac might not be a bad choice. If the college uses Windows software then continue with your PC purchase.
> Will it still perform when I begin using it for my career?
Probably not with only a dual-core. Quad-cores are pretty standard today and in the future having 8 cores will be commonplace. Dual-cores are at the end of their service life and HiDef is making quad-cores a minimum requirement.
> I think it is smartest to get the Quad Core, but I've never had an HP computer. Are they reliable?
I recommended HP because they do build very good computers. I was at their booth at the last NAB show and their workstation line has models that are specially built for video editing. Unfortunately, the workstation line is also more expensive which is why I directed you to their home line. If you want to look into an HP workstation the least expensive ones with quad-cores are the HP xw6600 Workstations, and the HP xw8600 Workstations. Those are computers that will last a few years and have room to upgrade hard drives and memory.
Lenovo also builds very solid computers (they bought the business from IBM) I would look at their ThinkStation workstations. There come in quad-core configurations. So do the ThinkCentre M Series. I just bought a little Lenovo S10 NetBook and they are outstanding quality for such a small device. (but not for video editing) Lenovo is know for their quality.
> However, if you believe that the HP would suit all of my possible uses, then I will trust your judgement.
I would look around. It's an expensive decision. HP is a good starting place but you also might consider buying a good gaming PC because the demands are quite the same (i.e., fast CPU, fast graphics card and hard drives).
> When you say I am paying more money for the convenience, did you mean of the All-In-One? And how exactly is it an all in one? Simply because it has... What?
All-In-One computers are just a display and a keyboard and that's it! The motherboard, hard drives, DVD drive, etc. are all built into the display section (actually behind the display). This is why laptop parts are often used because there is not a lot of room and no big fans so it's basically a laptop with a detachable keyboard. I absolutely love the idea as a general purpose PC but they don't yet come with quad-cores and CPU power is everything when rendering video (4 cores really are twice as fast as 2).
> Do you know if Vaio has a traditional tower/display, because that is the type of computer I used to have? Although, it looks as though they don't make them anymore.( I could surely look it up.)
Sony doesn't seem to build towers anymore but the VAIO towers were very good. I would look at the major manufacturers and see what they have to offer. If you are going to keep it for 4 years, your main criteria should be a quad-core processor, 2-4 GB of memory, and at least 2 hard drives, one for applications and one for video files and rendering. If you think you might upgrade in 2 years, the Sony VAIO is fine for now. With 4GB of memory and 1TB of hard disc space it was perfect except for a dual-core instead of a quad-core.
Once again, don't forget to ask your future college if they use Macs!!!
Re: Major Rendering Issue - Please Help! by Chelsea Volz on Oct 19, 2008 at 8:01:59 am
> It's great to see high school students showing an interest in making movies. Good for you! I completely agree. It's kind of sad because in my TV Production class, all of the kids are so ridiculous. All of the kids are only in the class because they get to sit around a computer and try to get on Myspace.
I don't understand why they don't take advantage of it.
I actually fell in love with Producing because I fell in love with this television show called One Tree Hill and I drove to where its filmed and got the opportunity to extra on set. And I spent more time watching the men behind the scenes, than the actors. Haha. Ever since then, I'm just completely in love with the entire field.
I'm quite the amateur now, but.. I'm improving. :)
> Since the Intel based Mac's can run XP via "bootcamp" an iMac might not be a bad choice. If the college uses Windows software then continue with your PC purchase. I think I am going to continue with my PC purchase either way because I am truly not very good on Mac's and although my boyfriend will be in Florida for my first year of school, he just purchased a brand new iMac, so I can just mooch off of him. Of course, if it is an absolute requirement, I will get one. But I still have quite a while until college and I want to try to get some practice on Final Cut Pro before hand.
> This is why laptop parts are often used because there is not a lot of room and no big fans so it's basically a laptop with a detachable keyboard. I absolutely love the idea as a general purpose PC but they don't yet come with quad-cores and CPU power is everything when rendering video (4 cores really are twice as fast as 2).
I found this http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001G0MP5Q computer and it says that it has a Intel Core 2 Quad Q9400 (2.66GHz), 4MB L2 cache, is that not a quad core because it says "2 Quad"? Or if it was, would it say "Intel Core 4 Quad Q9400"?
I really can't seem to find any other computers besides HP that have Quad-Core processors?
Do you know of any others?
And is HP the best, you think? o.O
>With 4GB of memory and 1TB of hard disc space it was perfect except for a dual-core instead of a quad-core. Now, is the 1TB the same as 2 500GB Harddrives?
If so, why is the 2 500GB better?
And where/on which computers can I find one with just TWO 500GB harddrives instead on one or the T1?
And what would the spec read if it was a Quad-Core, like, how would I know?
Finally a few "recommendation" questions about an HP computer I am looking at: Which of these three would you recommend for processors: Intel(R) Core(TM) 2 Quad processor Q9300 (2.5GHz)
Intel(R) Core(TM) 2 Quad processor Q9550 (2.83GHz)
Which of these two would you recommend for Memory: 4GB DDR2-800MHz dual channel SDRAM (4x1024)
A 64-bit Operating System is required to take full advantage of 4GB or greater memory. A 32-bit Operating System only recognizes up to 3GB memory.
6GB DDR2-800MHz dual channel SDRAM (2x2048,2x1024)
The 6GB memory option requires the 64-bit Windows Vista Ultimate operating system in order to enable the full memory capability.
Which of these for the Graphics Card: 256MB NVIDIA GeForce 9300, DVI-I, VGA adapter,HDMI
512MB NVIDIA GeForce 9500GS, DVI-I, VGA, HDMI
768MB NVIDIA GeForce 9600GS, DVI-I, VGA, HDMI
1GB NVIDIA GeForce 9800GT, 2 DVI, HDMI adapter
Which of these for Hard Drive: 500GB 7200 rpm SATA 3Gb/s hard drive
640GB RAID 0 (2 x 320GB SATA HDDs) - performance
750GB 7200 rpm SATA 3Gb/s hard drive
500GB RAID 1 (2 x 500GB SATA HDDs) - data security
1TB RAID 0 (2 x 500GB SATA HDDs) - performance
1TB 7200 rpm SATA 3Gb/s hard drive
Which of these for a Monitor: I don't understand - does one have speakers built-in and one does not?o.o
HP w2207h 22" Wide Flat Panel Monitor more info
Connections: VGA, HDMI (with HDCP)
From the specs for the Harddrive of this computer^ it looks, to me, like...
500GB RAID 1 (2 x 500GB SATA HDDs)
1TB RAID 0 (2 x 500GB SATA HDDs)
...are the same. They are both 2 500 GB drives put together... Except, whatever a RAID is, the 500GB one has 1... lol. What does that mean?
EDIT:
I finally found a Sony Vaio with a Quad Core:
http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Sony-VAIO-VGC-RT100Y-25-5-All-In-One-Desktop-HDTV-VGC-RT100Y/sem/rpsm/oid/227730/catOid/-12962/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do
Does that sound good?
It says that
* This desktop features 4GB of advanced DDR2 system memory—enough to run demanding programs without any problems.
* Data travels to the processor along the frontside bus. The faster data travels, the faster everything works. This 1333MHz frontside bus is fast, ideal for movies and video editing.
* L2 caches keep data neat, organized, and nearby so processors can retrieve it quickly. This 4MB L2 cache is very large, providing a potentially strong boost in performance.
* Massive hard drive: This VAIO contains dual 500GB, 7200RPM hard drives for a total of 1TB of storage space. The drives are set up in a RAID configuration, so your data flows better, faster and is safer from catastrophic losses.
* Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate (64-bit): This is the most comprehensive edition of Windows Vista, combining infrastructure features of a business-focused OS, efficiency features of a mobility-focused OS, and entertainment features of a consumer-focused OS. If you need one OS that’s great for working from home, working on the road, and for entertainment, Windows Vista Ultimate lets you have it all.
* Audio/video: This VAIO features NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT GPU graphics with 512MB of dedicated video memory, and up to 2270 MB of total video memory. This video memory is perfect for enjoying high-definition movies on Blu-ray Disc, tackling graphics-intensive games or editing photos and videos. The built-in speakers, including a subwoofer, provide compelling 3D sound (2 x 5W stereo speakers, 11W subwoofer).
* Media card reader: Seamlessly transfer images from your digital camera or camcorder. This reader is compatible with Compact Flash, Memory Stick Duo with MagicGate functionality and Secure Digital Media (SD) cards.
Or is it still not as good as the tower?
Are there any other computers besides HP that you would recommend?
Re: Major Rendering Issue - Please Help! by John Rofrano on Oct 19, 2008 at 4:02:30 pm
> I actually fell in love with Producing because I fell in love with this television show called One Tree Hill and I drove to where its filmed and got the opportunity to extra on set. And I spent more time watching the men behind the scenes, than the actors.
lol, then you got "the bug"! When I was in college I majored in computer science but I had some open electives and so I took a course in TV production and that was all it took for me. I instantly fell in love with "behind the scenes" too. Of course back then, desktop video editing didn't exist but as soon as NLE software hit the shelves I bought it and the rest, as they say, is history. ;-) You keep at it.
> I found this http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001G0MP5Q computer and it says that it has a Intel Core 2 Quad Q9400 (2.66GHz), 4MB L2 cache, is that not a quad core because it says "2 Quad"? Or if it was, would it say "Intel Core 4 Quad Q9400"?
That is one of the most confusing things that Intel has ever done. Core 2 has nothing to do with how many cores. :( It is there second generation Core technology (the first generation was a disaster and were slower that single cores, so they came up with the name Core 2 for their 2nd generation chips). That means "Core 2 Duo" is a 2nd gen dual-core and "Core 2 Quad" is a 2nd gen quad-core. So what you were looking at was indeed a quad-core.
BTW, that is a monster of a machine but it's almost $4000!!! That's a long way for the $2000 PC you were looking at. When someone points to a link, I usually take that to mean that this is also their price range which is why I tried to stay around $2000 in my recommendations. If you can afford that machine go for it!
> Now, is the 1TB the same as 2 500GB Harddrives? If so, why is the 2 500GB better?
Working with video, especially HD video, requires a lot of disk space and throughput. It also requires that the disk is fast enough to read the video data in real-time (where here in the US, real-time means approximately 30 frames per second).
The way a hard drive works is there is a read/write head that moves along the length of the disc and reads or writes data. The operative word in that last sentence is "OR". It can read, or it can write, but it can't do both at the same time. If you have 2 drives, one can be reading while the other is writing. One of the major tasks in video editing is rendering where you read from one file, modify the frame, and write to another file. Having two physical hard drives, (either separate or in a RAID 0) gives you better throughput because you can now read and write simultaneously (not to mention that the head can stay over the same position it's work on and not have to move back and forth between the read position and write position which takes time). That may have been more computer theory than you need but hopefully it makes sense to you.
Bottom line: For video editing, 2 500GB hard drives (which equal 1TB in capacity) are better than one big 1TB hard drive.
> From the specs for the Harddrive of this computer^ it looks, to me, like...
500GB RAID 1 (2 x 500GB SATA HDDs)
1TB RAID 0 (2 x 500GB SATA HDDs)
are the same. They are both 2 500 GB drives put together... Except, whatever a RAID is, the 500GB one has 1... lol. What does that mean?
RAID technology comes in a few formats. RAID 0 takes two discs and makes them behave as one disc, only faster! (because there are two heads remember? and everyone knows... "two heads are better than one" lol) So two 500GB discs look like a 1TB disc to your PC. RAID 1 mirrors two discs. So everything you write on the first disc, gets copied to the second for safe keeping. Because the second disk is a copy, 2 500GB discs in a RAID 1 equal only 500GB. You would use RAID 1 for an application that could not tolerate a hard drive failure like Banking where loosing customer's data is a bad thing. It is really not needed for most video editing and RAID 0 is preferred for its increase in speed. I have my video discs configured in a RAID 0.
> I finally found a Sony Vaio with a Quad Core: Sony VAIO VGC-RT100Y Does that sound good?
That Sony VAIO VGC-RT100Y looks great. If you can afford it, go for it. The Sony VAIO VGC-RT150Y at Amazon is even better (with a 2.66GHz Quad-Core and 8GB memory for only $500 more). The Sony VAIO VGC-RT150Y is not going to run out of steam any time soon. My PC is a 2.66GHz Quad-Core with 8GB of memory so you would have what I have only yours would take up less space (I'm really starting to like those All-In-Ones) ;-)
After seeing the RT series, I would buy one of the Sony VAIO's myself. The thing about a tower is that it is expandable but the VAIO already has everything you could possibly want. It's got a fast quad-core, it's got plenty of memory, it's got 1TB or hard drive in a RAID 0, it's got Blu-ray... let's face it... it's got it all. Like I said, it has everything my PC has and I'm editing HD so it should serve you well for years to come and it's a perfect size for a dorm room. ;-)
Re: Major Rendering Issue - Please Help! by Chelsea Volz on Oct 19, 2008 at 11:17:52 pm
> You keep at it! I definitely plan to keep at it! :) Sometimes it just freaks me out because I know that job stability isn't the thing that television production is known for. I am also well aware of how competitive the field is, which is why I am so persistent on getting the proper technology and honing the skills I have.
> That means "Core 2 Duo" is a 2nd gen dual-core and "Core 2 Quad" is a 2nd gen quad-core. So what you were looking at was indeed a quad-core. Ok. That definitely makes SO much more sense now. Lol, I can actually understand what I am reading and everything now thanks to you and all of your awesome knowledge.
You have no idea how greatful I am!
>That may have been more computer theory than you need but hopefully it makes sense to you. That actually makes everything so much clearer. Before, I was absolutely lost as to the difference and why it mattered/why they were so important in the first place. Again, your awesome. Thanks so much. :D
It's definitely better to know what your asking about when you ask, lol.
>Bottom line: For video editing, 2 500GB hard drives (which equal 1TB in capacity) are better than one big 1TB hard drive. You said that the computer from Amazon has everything I could want and more, so, I definitely think I am going to go for this computer: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001G0MP5Q
But does it have 2 500GB harddrives and not just 1 big TB? Cause it says this: Blu-ray Disc optical drive and 1TB HDD with RAID technology .... ?
>You would use RAID 1 for an application that could not tolerate a hard drive failure like Banking where loosing customer's data is a bad thing. It is really not needed for most video editing and RAID 0 is preferred for its increase in speed. I have my video discs configured in a RAID 0.
Oh! Okay! Now it ALL makes sense. I was like "Wtf"?
But okay, I will look for the RAID 0...
Once again, I REALLY want the computer from Amazon(the only reason I can afford it is because my dad is buying it for me), but does it have RAID0? because it said that is has RAID technology but it doesn't specify...
> The thing about a tower is that it is expandable but the VAIO already has everything you could possibly want. It's got a fast quad-core, it's got plenty of memory, it's got 1TB or hard drive in a RAID 0, it's got Blu-ray... let's face it... it's got it all. It should serve you well for years to come and it's a perfect size for a dorm room. ;-)
Thank you so much for all of that! That really solidifies my decision to get that computer. However, I've already asked, but how did you know it has RAID 0? The only thing I can find about it is that it has RAID technology.
And are you sure its the best because you said that a 1TB harddrive is not as good as 2 500 GB ones.
----
I apologize if I seem to be repeating questions (cause thats at least what it sounds like to me). I am jsut trying to understand as thoroughly as possible and ask as many questions as I can think of so that I can decide on the correct purchase.
P.S. - I still have to attempt to convert all of those media clips in my project from WMV to DVI and I plan to do it in the next few days. Throughout our posts, I will let you know how it goes upon completion.
Thanks again for that. :D
Re: Major Rendering Issue - Please Help! by John Rofrano on Oct 20, 2008 at 2:02:46 am
> I've already asked, but how did you know it has RAID 0? The only thing I can find about it is that it has RAID technology. And are you sure its the best because you said that a 1TB harddrive is not as good as 2 500 GB ones.
I cheated of course. ;-) I went to the Sony Style site and looked up the VGC-RT150Y and it said:
Hard Drive * Capacity : 1TB (500GBx2)
* Interface : Serial ATA
* Speed : 7200rpm
* Technology : RAID 0 Technology
So it's definitely RAID 0 and it's definitely 2x500GB to give you 1TB. It's perfect. That is one killer system. You're gonna love it!
Re: Major Rendering Issue - Please Help! by Chelsea Volz on Oct 21, 2008 at 7:46:52 pm
Okay... so... bad news.
I just finished rendering all of the media files I have in my project with the specifications you suggested....
I began rendering the project.
It barely got past 1% which isn't even near past the Generated Media frame, and it froze. I got this message "An Error Occured While Creating The File BL.wmv. The reason for the error could not be determined."
And then the program shut down...
>.<
Any ideas?
'Cause I have rendered about four projects besides this one so I know it's not the program. And now, since I already re-rendered all of the media files, I don't think it's the clips, either...
Re: Major Rendering Issue - Please Help! by Chelsea Volz on Oct 23, 2008 at 4:14:15 am
Ok... So, I thought I had it figured out...
I opened up the project where I re-rendered all of the clips to avi again and attempted to render it to avi itself(which I wasn't doing before!). It actually got to 34%!!!... and then stopped.
However, the Elapsed Time meter kept rising while the Approximate Time Left meter kept reducing....
Any ideas?
Re: Major Rendering Issue - Please Help! by John Rofrano on Oct 23, 2008 at 10:30:20 am
Can you render it to AVI in sections? Maybe 4 sections so that's only 25% each. Just create a timeline selection and when you render check the box that says [x] Render Loop Region Only. Then place the 4 AVI's into a new project and render the whole thing to the final format.
Re: Major Rendering Issue - Please Help! by Chelsea Volz on Oct 24, 2008 at 3:41:45 am
This strategy doesn't seem to be working either...
Although the first time I tried to render it, it froze at 34%, which is pretty awesome, now it just continues to freeze RIGHT at the last frame of generated media, right before a transition into a piece of video.
Could that mean something?
EDIT: Okay, so I've definitely tried everything. I've tried rendering the newly avi-rendering clips just up to the part where it freezes, I've tried rendering it past that part in sections. I even went back to the originall WMV version of the project and tried it both ways as well.
Recently it keeps freezing at the end of all the generated media, right before the first video clip, as I've said before, but if I try to render the whole thing, it doesn't freeze there, just randomly.
And each and every time it freezes the Elapsed Time meter kept rising while the Approximate Time Left meter kept reducing....
Hm.
I'm really confused.
And I hope you understood all that! Lol.
Re: Major Rendering Issue - Please Help! by John Rofrano on Oct 24, 2008 at 11:26:02 am
It is possible that the project is corrupt in some way because normally generated media renders fine. If you were doing everything with AVI's, I am confused by this line in the dump:
That says that the WMV decoder is being used. Why would that be if there is no longer and WMV media in your project? Could it be that there is a small sliver of WMV file hiding behind a generated media event on the timeline? I don't know. You really need a Sony Tech to read these dumps (maybe it was just in memory from something else you were doing?)
At this point I would contact Sony tech support. You've tried everything imaginable. Maybe they can look at your project file and tell you what's going on? I just don't know what else to try.
Re: Major Rendering Issue - Please Help! by Chelsea Volz on Oct 26, 2008 at 5:41:39 am
Is there any specific way to tell if the project is corrupt and not just one specific file?
And I'm not sure why that specific dump showed up. Maybe I am not re-rendering the files correctly?
This is what I do: I take EVERY piece of video media in the project and place it in the section that it says to drop the multimedia in SuperC. Then I clicked "Encode Active Files" and it just rerenders them I guess. It doesn't give me the option to rename them or anything... When I'm back in my project, I just go to the Project Media section, select the first piece of media and click "replace" like you instructed and I replace it with the same file. It's not renamed or anything so I just go to the same file in my documents and replace it with that. It still says .wmv, but I didn't pay much attention to that because I apparently rerendered them to AVI, right? And because it doesn't change the name it would still be known as .wmv, correct?
- Sorry if that didn't make much sense.
And I checked all of the generated media files and there are no other media files I am missing.
I rerendered all of the pieces of media again and tried to render up to 30 seconds of the video again. It got up to the SAME piece of generated media and then entire program just ended. It didn't freeze. It didn't give me a warning message. It didn't do anything. It just shut off and my computer went back to the desktop.
I tried it again. It just froze there.... So.. it seems sparatic.
If you have any ideas now, I'd be happy to hear them, but if you have a number or something where I can reach Sony Vegas Tech., that would be awesome.
Thanks so much for everything!
Re: Major Rendering Issue - Please Help! by John Rofrano on Oct 26, 2008 at 2:36:34 pm
> It still says .wmv, but I didn't pay much attention to that because I apparently rerendered them to AVI, right? And because it doesn't change the name it would still be known as .wmv, correct?
No. They should NOT say .wmv... they should say .avi. This is your problem. Remember the settings I said to use earlier in this thread?
1. Output Container: avi 2. Output Video Codec: M-JPEG 3. Output Audio Codec: WAV-(pcm 16 little-endian)
[x] MEncoder
Video: (no change)
Aspect: 4:3
Frame/Sec: 29.976
Audio: (no checks)
Sample Freq: 48000
Channels: 2
The files will have a .avi extension. If they don't you're doing something wrong. Then replace all of the .wmv files with .avi files. There should be no .wmv files anywhere in your project. I know it's frustrating but try again.
Re: Major Rendering Issue - Please Help! by Chelsea Volz on Oct 28, 2008 at 4:02:22 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTEF-_TSTVM
I just thought I would show you the finished product...
It's dedicated to you, although it might not mean that much because you don't understand the show or anything, but you have no idea how grateful I have been for ALL of your help. You've been so incredible!
:D
Re: Major Rendering Issue - Please Help! by John Rofrano on Oct 28, 2008 at 12:22:25 pm
Nicely done... good pacing... I love it. The selection of music was great too. I like the way you used the white flashes in there. I'm so glad that it finally rendered for you. Now you have a working formula. When you download these videos, immediately convert them to MJPEG AVI files before starting your next project and you should be all set.
You keep it up. You have talent. Don't let it go to waste! (maybe your next project can be a graduation photo montage of your class though the years... makes a great keepsake) ;-)
