Unable to render MPEG-2 at 720x486
by Howie Kenty
on
Jul 18, 2008 at 4:25:01 am
I'm having a problem rendering an MPEG-2 file at 720x486. I've tried many different versions of the various MPEG/DVD render templates, and they all render fine when the resolution is set to 720x480. I've fiddled with other settings as well, but none seem to affect the issue one way or the other. As soon as I try to render at 720x486, I get this message:
An error occurred while creating the media file [filename].
The reason for the error could not be determined.
I don't think it's a system or source material issue, as I've tried this on two different computers, with various different types of video source material in the projects, and always get the same message. I've tried setting the project resolution properties to both 720x480 and 720x486, but still get the message when attempting to render at 720x486, regardless.
I've heard that MPEG and 720x486 don't play along that well together (MPEG resolution prefers to be divisible by 16?), yet the client requires a 740x486 MPEG file, so I assume people can and do create these.
Re: Unable to render MPEG-2 at 720x486 by John Rofrano on Jul 18, 2008 at 2:05:05 pm
I would ask the client what MPEG2 encoder has given them 720x486 in the past because I believe that it is an invalid resolution for MPEG2. Some encoders are resolution independent (like HuffYUV) but others like DV and MPEG2 only support specific resolutions.
If you think about how MPEG2 works, it compresses "blocks" of pixels therefore by definition it cannot support a resolution that wouldn't produce a complete block of pixels.
Are you sure they didn't say 496? That would be valid.
Re: Unable to render MPEG-2 at 720x486 by Howie Kenty on Jul 18, 2008 at 3:50:21 pm
I see! I'll check with the client and see if they actually meant 720x480, or at least whether an MPEG at that resolution will work for them. Thanks for the tips, guys!
Re: Unable to render MPEG-2 at 720x486 by Howie Kenty on Jul 18, 2008 at 4:30:51 pm
Hm - client is a bit unhelpful, this is what I received as a response to my inquiries:
"NTSC: 720x486, 29.97 fps is correct and we make this encode everyday. If he’s having problem I suggest delivering on tape (always preferred)"
No tape machine handy, unfortunately! These are the original specifications:
NTSC: 720x486, 29.97 fps, PAL: 720x576, 25 fps
Option 1: MPEG-2
Program Stream (.mpg), MP@ML or 422P@ML
Video: Bitrate minimum 8Mb/sec, Up to 50 Mb/sec
Audio: Stereo 48Khz sample rate, MPEG Layer II sample rate 384Kb/sec preferred
-or- Uncompressed PCM, 16/20/24 bit
Now, they have another Quicktime option that I think will work for me, but this issue is still bugging me. I'm wondering what gives here- how can they be asking for a standard that's incompatible with the file format? More likely I'm missing something!
Re: Unable to render MPEG-2 at 720x486 by John Rofrano on Jul 18, 2008 at 7:23:24 pm
NTSC: 720x486, 29.97 fps is commonly referred to as NTSC D1 as opposed to 720x480 which is NTSC DV. So the resolution is fine for AVI files... I've just never seen it used for MPEG2 files.
> ...and we make this encode everyday.
So... what do they use to make this encode to MPEG2 every day? I would not be afraid to say that your MPEG2 encoder doesn't support this resolution so if they could tell you what they use you will try that.
Re: Unable to render MPEG-2 at 720x486 by Steve Rhoden on Jul 18, 2008 at 7:59:52 pm
I agree with John,
This format of NTSC:720x486:29.97fps is referring to AVI format.
Seems odd on their request.
Solution: Give them their desired request in the Quicktime
format..you won't experience any hiccups with this format.
Steve Rhoden
Creative Director
TNX EFFECTS STUDIOS.
Re: Unable to render MPEG-2 at 720x486 by Howie Kenty on Jul 19, 2008 at 12:52:51 am
Wowza, the problems just keep coming. Steve and John, you guys have been incredibly helpful thus far, thanks so much. I'll certainly understand if you need to move forward with some folks with other issues. If you're willing to stick with me for a bit, here's a longer one...
Haven't heard back from the client thus far on the MPEG codec they use, but it sounded like Quicktime would be a better format anyway. I don't know whether anyone has any experience with this codec or not, but one of their preferred Quicktime codecs is the SheerVideo codec, which I've downloaded and am trying to use. However, trying to export from Vegas to MOV with SheerVideo at 720x486 gives me another error message:
An error occurred while creating the media file [filename].
An error occurred while converting with a codec.
Now, I can export MOVs at 720x486 using other codecs successfully (Indeo, Sorenson Video 3, etc). Figuring that perhaps I could create an AVI from Vegas and convert it using the SheerVideo codec in another program, I did successfully export a 720x486 uncompressed AVI. This is where the troubles move out of Vegas territory, so feel free to stop here if you want.
If you're still with me, I opened the AVI in Quicktime Pro, and tried to export an MOV. The weird part here (and this is pretty surely an Apple problem) is that the "Sound" option is entirely grayed out - no way to even export audio, though I've verified it does exist in the file, and tried AVIs at various bit depths with the same results. Using the SheerVideo codec, I can successfully convert the AVI to a 720x486 MOV without an audio track from Quicktime, but it's little good without the audio.
Here's the weirder part - the file I really need to create as an MOV is about 5 min 30 sec. From Vegas, I exported a few :02 AVI tests to try converting with Quicktime, and with THESE examples, in the export dialog in Quicktime the "Sound" option IS available. The resulting MOV exports (Sheer at 720x486 works successfully) do indeed have sound. As both my :02 tests and my 5:30 file were exported from Vegas using the exact same settings, I'm a bit baffled by why Quicktime likes the shorter ones and doesn't like the longer one. I assume that once it's an exported AVI, any potentially problematic content that might be occurring later in the timeline has been changed from its previous form into AVI format.
Sorry for the long post, I'm just feeling thwarted at every turn. As a last ditch effort, I've tried bringing my 720x486 AVI into some older versions of Adobe Premiere and After Effects to export to MOV, and it just crashes those programs pretty much straight away. Every option seems fraught with some minor difficulty that prevents it from working. But what can you do? I've written to BitJazz, Sheer's creator, we'll see what they can offer. I'm guessing they'll say that since it works in Quicktime with small files, it's a problem with Vegas.
Anyhoo! Any advice you can give would be so greatly appreciated. I'm really an audio guy, and video somehow always seems to give me a crazy headache.
Re: Unable to render MPEG-2 at 720x486 by John Rofrano on Jul 19, 2008 at 3:00:28 am
We're still with ya' Howie! :-D
Not sure why you chose to download and use the SheerVideo codec but unless your client told you to, chances are they don't have this codec and won't be able to read your file when they get it.
Stick with one of the standard Quicktime codecs. Sorenson Video 3 is the de'facto standard Quicktime codec that all Quicktime users will have this. You can render to it right from Vegas. Use the Frame size template NTSC Standard (720x486) and set the Quality to 100%. You could also use the Motion JPEG codec.
BTW, do you have your project set to 720x486? If not, you will get slight black bars on the sides of the video when you render it. If you shot 720x480 DV you need to crop to the D1 frame size. Personally I like to work in the same resolution as my output format. I would set your project to the NTSC Standard (720x486, 29.970 fps) just so there are no surprises.
Re: Unable to render MPEG-2 at 720x486 by Steve Rhoden on Jul 19, 2008 at 3:38:00 am
Yep...still here,
Man, your clients are really putting you thru the hoops....just when
i think you are good to go with your quicktime render and collect your
cheque. They want it using the sheerVideo codec?...sheerVideo? that is a bit #@x!?#@.....let me not say.
Its a versatile codec, but I have never used it before and never will.
So i cannot give you any pointers where this format is concerned.
But as John pointed out to you, the 'sorenson video 3' is the best
format and all who use quicktime will have.
Uncompressed, photo-jpeg, Sorenson or motion-jpeg formats are all professional delivery mediums.
Steve Rhoden
Creative Director
TNX EFFECTS STUDIOS.
Re: Unable to render MPEG-2 at 720x486 by Douglas Spotted Eagle on Jul 19, 2008 at 4:35:46 am
They want it using the sheerVideo codec?...sheerVideo? that is a bit #@x!?#@.....let me not say.
Its a versatile codec, but I have never used it before and never will.
So i cannot give you any pointers where this format is concerned.
But as John pointed out to you, the 'sorenson video 3' is the best
format and all who use quicktime will have.
Sheervideo/Bitjazz is a TERRIFIC codec, very common in many professional post-house workflows, and is an excellent codec. Very solid, very smooth.
I'd gladly debate the merits of Sorenson 3 vs other web-based codecs in today's landscape. Sorenson had the world by the tail...and they've clearly lost that hold over the past 2 years, IMO. Still good, but not as common as your post might suggest, and certainly not the best.
Quicktime is just a package. think of it like a brown bag that can hold many items. Quicktime is a package that assures that their player will play the codec that you've used to create your video.
I'd find out from the client exactly why they're asking for what they want, as thre is no 720x486 standard. Sounds like they're mixing metaphors. Specifically, why Sheer, if they're taking an MPEG from you?? Sheer isn't a delivery codec, it's a post codec.
Sounds like a lot of questions weren't asked/answered when the job was taken. That's a rough place to be.
It also sounds like they're getting advice from a less-than-knowledgeable third party.
Douglas Spotted Eagle
VASST
Certified Sony Vegas Trainer
Aerial Camera/Instructor
Re: Unable to render MPEG-2 at 720x486 by John Rofrano on Jul 19, 2008 at 9:27:33 pm
Yea Sorenson Video 3 is definitely not the "sharpest tool in the shed" anymore but I was just looking for what was most compatible with acceptable quality given that the customer is not being very specific / cooperative about what they need. I agree it's a tough place to be.
Re: Unable to render MPEG-2 at 720x486 by Howie Kenty on Jul 20, 2008 at 4:40:36 pm
Howdy again, everyone-
Unfortunately, there are a number of annoyances that are somewhat out of my control. I'm really an audio guy, and do quite well with that. A client who I've worked on audio projects for a number of years with has started moving into some video, and having a bit of video editing experience, I've been able to keep up. It's always been relatively uncomplicated stuff, typically just creating DVDs for backgrounds during live performances, run from his laptop. This project has ended up bigger than was initially planned, and the client's manager has requested I get a trailer to iTunes. The distribution company the manager uses works with a different company who formats all of their released video material to deliver to iTunes. Thus far, I have not been able to communicate with the latter company directly, which it's becoming very likely I will have to do Monday morning.
Anyhow, what follows is a bit long, but I think it clarifies any ambiguities about my situation. The above-mentioned video formatting company will accept video in ONLY the following formats, with extra surcharges for anything that doesn't meet these exact requirements:
Tape:
Beta SP / Digi Beta / DVCAm
OR broadcast quality digital files -
NTSC: 720x486, 29.97 fps, PAL: 720x576, 25 fps
Option 1: MPEG-2
Program Stream (.mpg), MP@ML or 422P@ML
Video: Bitrate minimum 8Mb/sec, Up to 50 Mb/sec
Audio: Stereo 48Khz sample rate, MPEG Layer II sample rate 384Kb/sec preferred
-or- Uncompressed PCM, 16/20/24 bit
Given that I have no tape machine nor access to one, a digital file is my only option. And with the general concensus on the forum that a 720x486 MPEG file is pretty much never heard of, Quicktime does seem the best option. Hence, my purchase of the Quicktime codec they specifically recommend, SheerVideo, which is available for a relatively low cost.
So, some more details about the current situation:
- Project is set to 720x486, 29.97 fps, etc - any applicable export settings duplicated in the project settings, basically. I'm able to export a working 720x486 AVI file just fine.
- SheerVideo codec is installed on my machine, but I'm unable to render at 720x486 with it. I encounter problems every time at that resolution. SheerVideo at 720x480 exports without a hitch, and other Quicktime encoders work at 720x486 without a hitch, across the board in all programs.
- I've attempted my SheerVideo 720x486 exports with, variously, the original Vegas project file, a Vegas-exported AVI brought back into a new Vegas project, a Vegas-exported AVI brought into SONAR, and a Vegas-exported AVI brought into some older versions of Premiere and After Effects. All of these generated either an error message, a crash, or just hang the computer. (Same behavior on two different computer systems in all programs, and same results when using a totally different Vegas project.)
- As I mentioned earlier, I also tried bringing my AVI into Quicktime Pro to export with SheerVideo, but have been seeing weird behavior with how Quicktime reads the audio portion of AVI files. It seems to be that at any file size greater than 2GB (my AVI is 13GB, and I tested with a number of other differently sized renders), Quicktime thinks the file doesn't contain any audio. I'm quite sure this is a Quicktime problem, and updating to the latest version does not correct it. Not that Quicktime would even necessarily be able to successfully use an encoder that has failed in numerous other programs, but just another option tried and excluded.
So the upshot of all of this is that I need to hear back from SheerVideo's technical support, since there does seem to be a legitimate SheerVideo problem, given that other Quicktime codecs are working fine at 720x486 in numerous programs. Douglas, as the only person here who has actually used SheerVideo, do you have any suggestions or ideas about what might be going wrong?
Whew! Thanks for sticking it out, fellows! If you think of anything, give a holler, and I'll let you know if anything turns up on my end. Would that I could just give them my 720x486 AVI or Sorensen 3 Quicktime! For now, I'm going to stop banging my head against the wall and work on something else.
Re: Unable to render MPEG-2 at 720x486 by John Rofrano on Jul 20, 2008 at 7:22:02 pm
It sound like you have done exactly what I was going suggest next which is contact SheerVideo's technical support and explain to them that you purchased their codec explicitly because a client of yours is requesting video in SheerVideo's codec with a resolution of 720x486 but the codec is throwing errors when you try to do that from Quicktime Pro. This sounds like your best course of action. Good luck.
Re: Unable to render MPEG-2 at 720x486 by Howie Kenty on Jul 23, 2008 at 2:44:38 pm
Wow. Bitjazz tech support replied back that they've replicated my problem, and are working on it.
Odd that no one's come across it before with this plugin, but I'm glad they're seeing exactly what I'm seeing. More likely they'll make a fix, crossing the fingers!
