Better videos.
by Trey Isbell
on
Jun 27, 2008 at 3:54:04 pm
What do you guys use along with vegas to help you make better videos. Right now I have a cheap sony handycam which I record to memory card and it does ok but I want a little bit better quality. If I had a hd video camera just entry level about 600 dollars or so. I know I would have to get an hd burner. But other than your computer what kind of extra hardware software do you use to make better videos and a better end result.
Re: Better videos. by Steve Rhoden on Jun 27, 2008 at 4:55:13 pm
Trey, First and Utmost make the sacrifice to get a high quality video camera and a good lighting kit (lighting).
That is the greatest investment you need to make in achieving the
quality you seek..no shortcuts..trust me.
Then of course you compliment that with sony vegas Pro and most
of the plugins available for it..there is now quit a few.
Re: Better videos. by Melvin Gonsalvez on Jun 27, 2008 at 7:49:24 pm
Perhaps you can try out the Casio Exilim Pro camera. It does 720p, 1080p, and slow motion (300, 600, 1200fps) and I use Vegas Pro to output the collages in WMV HD 720p. You can get some cool slo-mo shots of your racing with that cam (300fps - 512x384, 600fps and 1200fps shots are smaller in height) as it outputs .mov files. The HD video is very good for a sub $1K cam and it even has an HDMI output.
Re: Better videos. by John Frey on Jun 29, 2008 at 3:40:45 pm
Melvin,
I recently purchased the Casio EX-F1. I am producing a motorcycle racing DVD dedicated to Extreme Body English with losts of SLO MO. This Hybrid camera is one of the tools I am using and is really amazing. The 1080i and 720p capabilities are very cool considering the intent in it's purchase was the variable burst still capability along with the 300fps, Haven't really used the 600fps and 1200fps yet. I have a few tech questions that maybe you could answer. Can you email me at john@inlandimages.com so that I can continue offline?
JohnFrey
John D. Frey
25 Year owner/operator of two California-based production studios.
Digital West Video Productions of San Luis Obispo and Inland Images of Lake Elsinore
Re: Better videos. by Don Hutcheson on Jun 28, 2008 at 1:13:24 am
Trey,
I would suggest your most important starting point is a decent quality videocam. The dividing line between "average" and "good" is a 3-ccd ("charged couple device"--analogous to film size) camera. Consumer cams have one ccd, but a a 3-cd cam separates the colors into the three primary colors--giving you better contrast (as a result of better color)and richer, more lifelike color. Get the shot in good quality to start with. Then, as you can afford better editing software and peripherals, you can go back to the great original tape and render better quality output. A used 3CCD videocam (Sony PD150/170 or any 1/3" ccd cam is good for non-HD) from a trusted Ebay source will be better than a new single CCD or single CMOS videocam. Find out what brand of tape the camera is used to and stick with it. And if you buy a Sony DVCAM format camera, shoot in DVCAM all the time. DVCAM is superior to MiniDV (except in HD) because it lays down a wider video and audio track. A larger original file won't suffer as much degradation as it is manipulated and compressed in post (editing).
Re: Better videos. by Ron Shook on Jun 28, 2008 at 4:04:46 pm
Don,
Your advice is excellent, except this last part is misleading.
[Don Hutcheson]"And if you buy a Sony DVCAM format camera, shoot in DVCAM all the time. DVCAM is superior to MiniDV (except in HD) because it lays down a wider video and audio track. A larger original file won't suffer as much degradation as it is manipulated and compressed in post (editing)."
The video layed down to DVCAM tape and to miniDV tape is identical and once it is ingested into the NLE, performs in post identically. DVCAM tape is manufactured to more rigid standards and moves through the tape mechanism more rapidly, thus separating the elements of the DV signal more, so that they are less prone to drop out and other problems should the tape path be slightly out of whack or dirty. The same size DVCAM tape as MiniDV will have less running time because it goes through the tape mechanism faster. DVCPRO25 tape goes even further along the robustness continuum by running even faster with a better tape forumlation than DVCAM with a cooresponding decrease in running time but only for camcorders capable of shooting this tape.
Practical considerations inform your decision about which tape forulation and format to use. It's very hard to justify using DVCAM tape, which is 3 times the cost of miniDV for 2/3rds the running time, for a hobbiest project that isn't going to significantly suffer if there's the possibility of a little gitch here and there. It's just as hard to justify using miniDV tape to save a few bucks for a commercial spot where you look like a fool if the good take has a glitch in it. Match the tape cost and quality to the job, but you aren't giving up any imaging quality by using miniDV and not DVCAM, just increasing the slight chance of a problem. DVCAM tape should hold up better over time than MiniDV for archival purposes, and if you decide that you don't need to keep what's on it, is more reliable for reuse in non-critical applications.
Ron Shook
Shoulder-High Eye Productions
CreativeCOW Forum Host for Discreet edit*
Re: Better videos. by Ron Shook on Jun 28, 2008 at 11:51:41 pm
Trey,
[Trey Isbell]"Where can you get a decent 3ccd video camera for under 1000 dollars."
I'd say that you can't, but then I've never attempted to do so, or even looked in that direction, so I'm not the one to answer that question definitively. I'd quess that if you doubled that amount you might have some success.
Ron Shook
Shoulder-High Eye Productions
CreativeCOW Forum Host for Discreet edit*
Re: Better videos. by Don Hutcheson on Jun 29, 2008 at 3:30:50 am
Trey,
Sony made a very good entry-level 3CCD videocam several years ago called the TVR-900. You can Google it (as well as Google "Bealcorner") to get specs as well as advice for using it in different scenarios. You can shop carefully on Ebay and find a good one for under $1000. You might also find its professional cousin, the SONY PD100. Google both of them and get up to speed, because they will give you better results than a new videocam with one CCD or CMOS sensor. Years ago, I shot my first video for the local airport for an intro to flying. I used a very nice ($1000 new) single CCD Mini DV cam from Sony, as well as a TVR900. I was amazed at the difference in color and contrast between the 3CCD cam and the single CCD MiniDV cam. I did the research and bought a PD100, then upgraded to PD 150 etc... Canon XL series cams are good, too, but a bit more expensive, with lenses extra (when new). Hope this helps, and I'm sure others will have some great ideas regarding entry level cams that produce pleasing results.
Re: Better videos. by Don Hutcheson on Jun 29, 2008 at 1:00:08 am
Trey,
Correction: I should have said that the SONY TVR-900 was superior to the "single CCD SONY vidocam" (as opposed to the SONY Mini DV videocam). The TVR-900 is also a MiniDV videocam.
Re: Better videos. by Ron Shook on Jul 1, 2008 at 5:10:05 pm
Trey,
[Trey Isbell]"I have seen a few panasonic videocams on ebay that are 3ccd for about 500 dollars but I dont know how good they are."
Panasonic is/was the only major manufacturer to make really low cost ($600-1200) 3 chip DV camcorders. They are based on 1/6 and 1/4" CCD chips and for what they are they are pretty good. Not so good for low available light situations but quite OK when the light is high as in most of the outdoor situations that you anticipate using the camcorder. They aren't going to perform up to the degree of $2.5-5k 3 chip units, but in the outdoor situations you want to capture, not too far off the mark.
Be certain to budget for a good polarizing filter for whatever camcorder you get. It's essential anytime your background is the sky. Perhaps another $100 for a good one. And make sure whatever camcorder you get allows you to control the exposture manually.
Ron Shook
Shoulder-High Eye Productions
CreativeCOW Forum Host for Discreet edit*
Re: Better videos. by Trey Isbell on Jul 2, 2008 at 4:00:18 am
Thanks for all the help. Since I do this mostly for a hobby I am not going to drop over 1000 dollars for a camera. I am going to look into the panasonic cameras. What kind of burner do you use if you have a high definition camera or do you guys use the high defintion feature of your camera. There are alot of people who dont have hd dvd players. I know to even enjoy hd you've got to have an hd dvd and hd tv.
Re: Better videos. by Ron Shook on Jul 2, 2008 at 10:15:02 pm
Trey,
[Trey Isbell]"I am going to look into the panasonic cameras. What kind of burner do you use if you have a high definition camera"
The Panasonic camcorders I was refering to are SD only. If you want HD for under $1k, you'll almost certainly have to get a single chipper if you're purchasing new. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong. I don't think that there is a 3 chip camcorder out there that does HD for under $1k.
Most folks who shoot some form of HD now, still deliver on SD DVD, so to answer your question, you still probably use a regular SD DVD burner.
Ron Shook
Shoulder-High Eye Productions
CreativeCOW Forum Host for Discreet edit*
Re: Better videos. by Don Hutcheson on Jul 1, 2008 at 8:01:40 pm
Trey,
If you will Google them, you can usually find an older review of the videocam that compares it to its peers. Panasonic is a solid brand that makes videocams that a lot of tv stations and documentary filmakers use.
Re: Better videos. by Don Hutcheson on Jun 29, 2008 at 12:32:18 am
Ron,
Thanks for the post. I agree with you in principle. I was assuming, since he shoots motorcycles, he's wants the best chance at the best shot each time, with no chance of drop-out, since he can't ask the bikers to do "take two". Same with me and airplanes, or city officials in a documentary. I guess the DVCAM/MiniDV comparison goes on, although a 50%larger signal on the tape (DVCAM) does reduce the S/N ratio of the audio and video, if you can afford the tapes. I don't take chances. However, I look forward to my first memory card videocam, since it will eliminate so many variables and limitations involved in using tape!
Re: Better videos. by Mike bova on Jun 29, 2008 at 3:03:00 am
Here is a video I shot with a Sony HDR-SR12. I rendered ir in Vegas Platinum to DV converted to DIVX. It looks great in DV but way too big of a file to share. Not that happy with the final quality though.
