Vegas (Windows) vs. Final Cut Pro (Mac)
by Orson Kellogg
on
Dec 5, 2007 at 2:27:40 am
I'm on the verge of either setting up a small video production facility using Final Cut Pro on a Mac or Vegas 8 on a PC.
I like much about Vegas, have been evaluating it for a couple of weeks on and off, have tried a few things, checked out the tutorials. Encountered a couple of anomalies -- such as rendering to WMV that came out as an all-black (essentially empty ) 40MB file; but when I tried a second time, it turned out fine. A little unnerving, but I'm very much a beginner at this thing, and I realize there are a ton of variables/settings. (I also have a lifelong knack for discovering bugs in software that other people never experience.)
We have an experienced Mac user who's used FCP and swears by it, and says the Mac is a superior platform for video production. I tend to think a beefy PC these days can equal a Mac in having what it takes, and I've read multiple Vegas users (including those with FCP experience) say that Vegas has a faster workflow and is overall simpler/speedier to work in, with plenty of power.
I'm not producing feature-length films, but short (max. 40 mins.) marketing videos for display at customer meetings and on the web. But we are shooting in HD, so the software must handle this well.
Anyone got advice, opinions, experiences to share? Has Vegas proved to be robust, reliable, etc. I'd love to hear especially from anyone who's used FCP on a Mac and yet is using Vegas 8 on a PC now....
Re: Vegas (Windows) vs. Final Cut Pro (Mac) by Rick Mac on Dec 5, 2007 at 3:59:29 am
Orson,
I have experience with both FCP and Vegas.
Where I work has 8 FCP Systems and I edit
a lot in Vegas.
My observation is this. FCP and Vegas are both very good
editing systems. Both have there really strong points and a few weak spots.
FCP Thoughts:
Lots of wizbang. You can create some really slick stuff in a hurry (after learning the program) and you get a lot of help via templates.
Motion is really cool.
You need a strong, fast, computer and hardware to make FCP get off the ground well, (can you say money).
Some task that should be quite simple are not. Vegas kicks butt in this area.
FCP is a bit closed. It does not like to play with other editing system formats.
Many times you have to do a render before you can preview.
This drives me crazy.
Vegas Thoughts:
Simple to use compared to other editing systems
including FCP. Very good preview rates when used with a
fast computer. PC's are less expensive than Macs.
You can play a whole lot many different formats of
audio and video files from the Vegas timeline.
You can mix and match diffrent types of files and formats
on the Vegas timeline without a render step as in FCP.
Vegas has some really strong pan/crop and compositing
tools. Vegas has scripting featuure which can automate
certain task for you saving much time and effort.
Simply the best audio toolset of any editing software.
Vegas 8 Pro Multicam tool is way better than FCP's.
You can cut a project very quickly in Vegas.
Weak spot, not a lot of templates for the wizbang.
You have to learn how to create it yourself.
I will stop there and give others the chance to say a word.
As you can tell I like Vegas a lot.
I also like FCP. For most things I like Vegas over FCP.
If you will be working with other FCP users and you
have the money and time to learn FCP that might be the way
to go. If you want a very capable system that is more afforable and much easier to use, and I think more enjoyable to edit on and you do not need to worry about editing projects from other FCP files, Vegas is the way my son.
Regards, and happy editing, Rick.
Rick Mac
Director of Audio Production
TCT Network - Directv 377
Re: Vegas (Windows) vs. Final Cut Pro (Mac) by leslie wand on Dec 5, 2007 at 8:38:51 am
i think rick has said about all there is to say and quite fairly.
i am an editor of 30+ years and have used them all at some stage or another. they all have their good points (avids is certainly media management), and their bad. for me it's been vegas since 4, and everytime i have to do a job on anything else, i really wonder why i bother. for me vegas is what i want from an editor - sophisticated simplicity. i know others who think i know fa about what's a good nle. then again, none of them have ever edited seriously with vegas. i have with fcp, avid, premiere.
Re: Vegas (Windows) vs. Final Cut Pro (Mac) by JaModi Robinson on Sep 5, 2008 at 4:56:03 pm
I hear you, Leslie! I've been an editor going on ten years and I deal with this issue quite a bit. I have experience with Premiere, FCP, Vegas, and some Avid experience and prefer Vegas over them all. I think this debate is over hyped and it should be up to the editor to choose which program they want to use to cut. Too many times a system is determined for a project with no regard for workflow, output, etc. If that was the case, all you would have to worry about is seamless workflow between multiple editors and final output format. Each of these programs is capable of doing a great job. I think that through great marketing by Apple (and little to no effort by companies like Sony) and a naïve/programmed response to have to use FCP or Avid we miss the point of putting the right editor for the project in the most comfortable position. We are specialists who know our craft and do our homework, and we should let that be known more. This is such a counter productive topic, that I know editors who cut in Vegas and have to import a quicktime file to the FCP timeline just to get credit for doing the job right. It's not about the product, it's about the results you get from the person pressing the keys and moving the mouse.
Re: Vegas (Windows) vs. Final Cut Pro (Mac) by Joel Perez Irizarry on Jan 8, 2009 at 9:32:45 pm
I've been editing for about ten years now, and I have used several system including Avid, Premiere, FCP, Vegas and even more advanced finishing products like Smoke and Avid DS. That said I'm currently using FCP as my main editing software and to be honest I'm not necesarly a big fan, but I do find that because is prbably the most popular of all the software mention above I can share my projects with more ad agencies than any other. So if you need to share your work with a variety of clients that also own their own editing suites your probably better off with FCP. It's also hard to compare them only in terms of the editing programm since now a days is the bundle that counts. For me Color is a deal breaker and only Apple offers something like it. Color is very powerfull, it actually used to cost $6,000 when it was called Final Touch HD before Apple bought it.
DVD Studio Pro, Compressor and Motion ( even though I think After Effects is way superior) are also very usefull. So when you're considering buying an editing software you should consider what is included apart from the editing software since nowadays they're all very similar in terms of features and performance.
Re: Vegas (Windows) vs. Final Cut Pro (Mac) by Joe Mantaratz on Dec 8, 2009 at 3:40:15 pm
This is always an interesting topic for me and one that really is quite frustrating on so many levels. My editing history started in the audio field in the studio way back when. It was all Mac and pretty much as I recall ONLY mac. They had the niche and charged on the average 3-4 times the price for everything connected to it. The software we used back than in the early 80's cost a couple of thousand dollars not to mention the computer. But it was the only game in town and as mentioned before Apple's strategy is to market, market , market. It was a great tool but costly until the PC world caught up and directly competed with them in the desktop publishing world.
Studios built their systems and trained their people around the MAC, same exact thing happened with video editing. Walk into an Apple store and you can see how much they sell you on the WOW factor. The reality is today a MAC is really a PC....except for the operating system. Apple almost lost the market and had to regroup or face extinction because they refused to share. Apple has to figure out a way to eke out every right and penny from anything with their name on it.
Case in point...
IPOD...owned a 4 GIG Nano I thought would great for saving my music files but I could not take them back off. Nothing in their literature said anything about it until.....I found a one line blurb in small print that said you could not. Wonder how many people bought the thing and had the same problem. Not long after that however a IPOD rip was available and then of course MP3 players...again at a fraction of the price.
Look at the iPhone and iTouch...the same price for both and one is not a phone. This is Apple's mentality and they prey on our desire for the shiny penny.
The end product is what counts and unfortunately you still have people who think if it does not come from a MAC it must be sub par.
The bottom line is if you want to share and seek jobs you will have to learn FCP. My money these days is very carefully metered out and the WOW factor leaves a hole in the pocket.
Sorry so long winded but this is the flip side of the coin.
Re: Vegas (Windows) vs. Final Cut Pro (Mac) by JaModi Robinson on Dec 9, 2009 at 6:23:46 am
I hear you, Joe... it is quite an interesting topic. Honestly, it seems like the least educated (and biased) people on the subject seem to be the ones trying to dictate choices for others in the industry. I see your point that the industry is built on the Final Cut system (which I have no problem with) but just like film is making room for digital, we need to make room for alternate forms of post-production. Workflow, ability to collaborate with others, cost effectiveness, and quality of final product should be all we're looking at. But it seems, like most of the time, people not using the software are making decisions for others based on saturation in marketing and the inability to recognize the positives of this areas evolution.
I do disagree with you on editors needing to learn FCP to get jobs. Although I always think it's helpful to know as much as possible (including multiple softwares) there are smaller (and growing) but just as talented communities of Vegas users, Adobe Premiere users and Avid users. If these communities can work together and support each other, we can address this issue for what it it and not just do it because "everyone else is using it." I for one, refuse to get into a discussion on post production software with clients (mostly because they are limited in their information, and it's only final results that matter). I feel like if you don't make it an issue, then it's not one.
Obviously, there are situations where you will need FCP skills to work with projects and teams who are based on that system, I don't deny that. But there I feel like it's irresponsible and a dis service to make any editor uncomfortable for the sake of a blind "buzz word" response. We are hired for our creativity, problem solving, and storytelling, so let's not waste energy entertaining such a non issue. We are at the first point in history where PC or MAC, Final Cut, Avid or Sony Vegas, professionals can churn out quality work for their clients and audiences alike.
Re: Vegas (Windows) vs. Final Cut Pro (Mac) by Joe Mantaratz on Dec 11, 2009 at 2:49:33 am
There are jobs out there for Vegas but the reality that I have seen and continue to see in posting after posting is explicitly for FCP. This has nothing certainly to do with the talent behind the system of course.
I would have to say that in the last few years I have only seen Vegas asked for twice. For those jobs that don't they are usually for non film people. I'd like to see the tide turn quicker and try my best to convince clients it does not matter what's in the box. Problem comes in when you are part of a team and unfortunately majority rules and it is not for Vegas.
Re: Vegas (Windows) vs. Final Cut Pro (Mac) by JaModi Robinson on Dec 11, 2009 at 3:21:10 am
You'll almost never specifically hear a project to requite Vegas. I tend to look for those who don't specify or it seems like they're just saying FCP because it's "supposed to be said." I believe in most of those cases, they're looking for a capable editor to help them solve their problems. When you're coming from that angle, you can show results and skip the unneeded discussion on which program to use. You don't hear of people telling a plumber what kind of pipe to put under their sink or someone telling a mechanic tools needed to take apart an engine and put it back together again. I mean, I can just picture, "Excuse me, surgeon. I want you to cut my heart open and fix it, but let me choose which scalpels you'll be working with. Oh, and I'm going to be sewing myself up, too."
I tend to focus on what the particular problems they're encountering, what format it's in (Red, HD, SD) and how it's going to be output (and where it's gonna be seen). This makes it much more manageable to find work based on talent to get the job done... because I'm sure if there was a "Vegas job" out there, it's pretty easy to find talented and hungry Vegas editors out there. I've found it really easy to just make sure that everyone has the same media copy, then all you have to share is project files. Forming like Voltron from anywhere in the world.
