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Multiple Files - Multiple In & Out Points

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Multiple Files - Multiple In & Out Points
by chris magid on Mar 4, 2011 at 7:04:58 pm

Not quite sure I like the version 6 interface.

What is the procedure for setting and compressing files with different in & out points.

3 source files into the same encoder going to the same "deployment'. Each file has different in and out points.

Can certainly set them in the preview for each file. Is that proper?

Although I think I have noticed them moving after they were set and going on to set others or do other work. Not sure. Perhaps a bug.

How does the preview set in and out points relate to the "in&out point" check box in the encoder settings. Does that want to apply a global set of points for all files feeding that encoder? Seems to only reference one of the set of the points marked during preview.

Just seems sloppy and very non intuitive.

Is there another "workflow" for this.

Chris Magid
RTVF

chris magid
chris@gortvf,com
Renaissance Television & Film
http://www.gortvf.com

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Re: Multiple Files - Multiple In & Out Points
by Kevin Louden on Mar 4, 2011 at 9:25:48 pm

The workflow model is a different way of working from a straight batch. In/out points are set on the encoder side so they would apply to all the files in your file list globally. If you need to trim each individual file I would suggest loading each file into the workflow editor one at a time, set your trim points, and submit. If you have multiple encoders in the workflow you need to set the trim points in each one. This is a bit tedious and we are working on a way to make this easier to do.

To set trims in the preview make sure that the "encoder" drop-down menu at the top of the preview is set to an encoder and not none (this lets you see the source without any of the encoders filters applied). You can not play the file in encoder preview mode mode but you can jump in the timeline and single frame step. These in/outs will be placed into the in/out fields in the inspector.

If you only have one encoder in the workflow then the amount of work is just about that same as in the batch with V5, either way you have to set the trims for each source file. Hope this helps.

Kevin Louden
Product Manager | Episode
http://www.telestream.net

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Re: Multiple Files - Multiple In & Out Points
by chris magid on Mar 4, 2011 at 11:34:04 pm

Are you saying I am limited to one source per batch, job or workflow if I need to have different out points?

Wow. That is not very flexible or useful.

This is something very easy to do in Compressor, Sorenson Squeeze and possibly other encoding applications.

We are test driving Episode 6 for multi-seat purchases of Pro license and possibly engine.

It is not going well. Not impressed. The interface is extremely clumsy. Workflows are nice but you have marginalized the most important function...working with settings.

I'll post my opinions about stability, numerous freezes and other key issues later.

Many surprises, including some questionable playback performance of Episode 6 H264 encodes in Quicktime X and handling of Avid sourced quicktimes.

This is premium priced software which isn't acting like it. This is one of the least stable applications I have ever used. Including beta software and shareware.

So far Episode 6 is barely usable.

Its a shame because it appears better quality encodes may be possible with Episode 6 but out of the box more headaches than solutions.

We are testing on a 12 core mac pro running os x 10.6.4

Hopefully others are having a better experience.

Chris Magid
RTVF

chris magid
chris@gortvf,com
Renaissance Television & Film
http://www.gortvf.com

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Re: Multiple Files - Multiple In & Out Points
by Kevin Louden on Mar 9, 2011 at 1:58:24 pm

I am not saying that you are limited to one source per batch, but if you need to trim each source file with individual trim points there is not much difference between loading the file in, setting trim points and submitting and loading all the files into a batch, trimming them all, and submitting the batch. In each case you have to trim each one. Admittedly we have some work to do here and are working to allow trim points as well as a lot of other parameters to be assigned to source files (or other source types) and have these parameters follow through the workflow to encoders and other tasks. This will allow a more batch like workflow. We are also making some improvements in status to allow a more batch like way of working after you submit a file list workflow.

We have already spoken about the H.264 playback issue in QT10 over in the Telestream forum, thanks again for pointing that out. On of our main objectives for this year is to clean up and improve the new UI and workflow model, so you will see lots of improvements in both usability and stability coming throughout the year. A lot has changed with Episode from V5 to V6 but one thing has not, Episode still has one of the highest quality and capable encoding engines in its class, if fact even compared to encoding software that costs many times more than Episode.

Thanks for taking a look at Episode and it is my hope that if you stick with it and take a look at the improvements released in the coming months it may become more to your liking. If you are looking at a multi-seat installation with mixed desktop and engine systems there are some things in Episode that no other encoding system at any price can do as far as clustering and multi-system collaboration.

Thanks again for giving it a look and sharing your opinions. We are listening and working to make it better.

Kevin Louden
Product Manager | Episode
http://www.telestream.net

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Re: Multiple Files - Multiple In & Out Points
by Eric Darling on Mar 13, 2011 at 3:05:12 am

This is a huge oversight in the new version. I just can't believe Telestream took an intuitive feature that worked quite well and threw it away!

While I realize that this is a major upgrade, and many features are improved, I think it's a mistake to not consider something like in/out points a fundamental feature. I'm off to Squeeze to handle the job until Telestream figures it out...

--
Eric Darling
eThree Media

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Re: Multiple Files - Multiple In & Out Points
by Brian Tario on Mar 18, 2011 at 1:00:02 am

I strongly agree. I've been using Episode for at least a couple years and there are many things that annoy me about the v6 GUI. I was directed to this thread by the Telestream forum moderator because I have a number of long ProRes videos that were recorded live to KiPro's. Each is about an hour. My client wants them as WMVs (bleh, I know). I couldn't understand why I couldn't figure out how to setup a batch with individual I/O points, based on a custom preset I created. Now I know it's because v6 doesn't allow that! THAT'S CRAZY! I could do it in v5 no problem. I could do it in Cleaner back in the old days. Why kill such a handy function?

While we're at it...can you bring back the ding SFX when the encode finishes? Better yet, make it an option in preferences. It's handy when you're working on another box/job. See you at NAB for a major GUI upgrade announcement (I can hope right?). Thanks, Brian

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Re: Multiple Files - Multiple In & Out Points
by Eric Darling on Mar 18, 2011 at 1:22:05 am

Episode 6 is like New Coke in a lot of ways. They took a highly functioning formula and went a long way to messing it up. The new version is also so riddled with bugs, that it makes working in the program nearly intolerable. I experience frequent unexplained crashes when navigating the interface. And, a weird one I just encountered - lack of refreshes on directories when looking for "deployments" - I have to click list style to make contents appear! This is a Beta version at best. How did these things get through testing?

I'm also experiencing some questionable encoding quality when going to Pro Res. Same settings as Episode 5, and on the same exact source material, the results are definitely better in version 5. How does that happen?

--
Eric Darling
eThree Media

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Re: Multiple Files - Multiple In & Out Points
by Kevin Louden on Mar 18, 2011 at 2:19:46 am

Posted a reply over in the Telestream forum but wanted to add something about your ProRes observation. Have you gone over your ProRes setting after bringing it into V6 (did you do that or make them fresh in V6)? Although you can import them, some parameters have changed from V5 to V6 so we recommend that you review and test your imported V5 settings before using them in production. There were changes specifically to how interlacing is defined for ProRes so take a look at that. If everything is set up right you should see no change in picture between V5 and V6 for ProRes outputs. Can you give some details on what kind of picture differences you are seeing?

Kevin Louden
Product Manager | Episode
http://www.telestream.net

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Re: Multiple Files - Multiple In & Out Points
by Eric Darling on Mar 18, 2011 at 2:32:24 am

The settings were created fresh in Episode 6 - zero filters, and I simply picked ProRes 422 LT in the QuickTime settings. I used the "Best" frame rate since I want to use the encoder for different frame rate material that I don't want to change away from its native cadence.

The resulting clip in QT player is full of minor macroblocking - something not apparent in the source footage or in the same converted version coming out of version 5. It's actually pretty low quality compared to what I'm used to seeing in LT codec. Oh, and there is no interlacing in the material - it's progressive H.264 clips coming out of a Canon 5D Mk II camera.

I really shouldn't hijack the thread like this - I'd be happy to take it to the Telestream forums or start a new thread here?

--
Eric Darling
eThree Media

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Re: Multiple Files - Multiple In & Out Points
by Kevin Louden on Mar 18, 2011 at 3:09:49 am

Do you mean the frame rate setting in the QT dialogue? That actually does not do anything in Episode as the frame rate of the output gets set by the system based on what the source is or whatever is set by any of the frame rate filters (just an FYI). Have you tried using the ProRes codec setting that is outside of Quicktime (look in the video codec pulldown)? I just tested some encodes to LT from ProRes 422HQ camera originals from an ARRI Alexa and 8bit uncompressed (both progressive) and found the output to be what I would expect.

Here is a link to a setting I made, try it out and see if there is any difference. I have never uploaded a file via this method on the cow before so hopefully it will work

1782_prores422lt.epitask.zip

Kevin Louden
Product Manager | Episode
http://www.telestream.net

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Re: Multiple Files - Multiple In & Out Points
by John Heagy on Mar 19, 2011 at 1:39:30 am

Eric,

Check the resulting file to see if the codec, frame rate, etc is what you set in E6. E6, and E5 to a lesser degree, has the annoying tendency to not save the changes made to encoders. The only reliable way to make changes is to drag the encoder down to the work space... make the changes, then drag it back up and allow it to make a new setting. Editing encoders directly and letting E6 ask if you want to "save changes" seems to work once then never again, even though the change is reflected n the inspectors. I see this in E5 as well and may explain the many inexplicable problems that pop up sometimes and not other times. Turns out it doesn't always save your changes. Very frustrating to say the least!

John Heagy

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Re: Multiple Files - Multiple In & Out Points
by Kevin Louden on Mar 19, 2011 at 2:29:32 am

Hi john,

Come see me at NAB, we are making a lot of changes to the way saving is done!

Kevin Louden
Product Manager | Episode
http://www.telestream.net

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