Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color
by Jean Deraps
on
Nov 24, 2008 at 7:51:18 pm
Hi all, I just received an HP LP2480zx DreamColor (30 bit) and want to work with some RED.r3d files in color. I would like to know what the optimal set up is so I can make sure that what I see on the monitor corresponds to what I'm really working on. For HD output I'm setting the monitor to RED 706. I'm currently only using the 8 bit output from the DVI output of the ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT in my MacPro...I'm waiting impatiently for upcoming 30 bit cards. Is there anything I should be doing in color to ensure the fidelity of the output? Thanks!
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Jerry Hofmann on Nov 26, 2008 at 11:40:32 pm
Don't use a computer display to judge the color of RED or Video. It needs to be a broadcast video monitor. You could add an MXO to the mix here, but it won't play back RED 2k, it will however stop on a frame to see it, still... a broadcast monitor is the real deal, with a Kona 3 card in the mix. That display you have is really wonderful for print work, but none of them are really right for RED or video.
The problem lies in the gamma response on all computer displays. It just doesn't match what is displayed on a TV set or video monitor. Course if you're footage is destined only for the web... but I figure it's not, right?
Jerry
Apple Certified Trainer
Author: "Jerry Hofmann on Final Cut Pro 4" Click here
8-Core 3.0 Intel Mac Pro, Dual 2 gig G5, AJA Kona SD, AJA Kona 2, Huge Systems Array UL3D, AJA Io HD, 17" MBP, Matrox MXO, CD's
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Dan Bennett on Dec 1, 2008 at 4:21:46 pm
Hello,
I work for HP, focussing on the HP DreamColor LP2480zx display. I will be happy to help you to understand how to get the best out of this product.
The HP LP2480zx is intended to be a CRT-replacement display, and is already being sold into animation, television, film, photography and print applications. The industry is well aware of the need for an LCD solution that can replace CRTs. The HP LP2480zx is an affordable candidate for this transition, and many users are finding that they like what they see and can trust the display.
The LP2480zx is designed to provide highly accurate color AND gamma conformance with whichever standard color space is selected by the user. For example, if the user selects "Rec. 709", then the monitor will behave as a completely accurate Rec. 709 device. The parameters for this compliance are:
* Chromaticity of the red, green and blue primaries (the gamut)
* Chromaticity of the whitepoint (red, green, blue all maximum)
* Tone response (gamma)
Accurate compliance with gamut is achieved by four things:
* A super-wide native (physical) gamut in the display, which completely encloses the gamuts of Rec. 709, Adobe RGB and others, and almost completely encloses (97%) the very wide gamut of DCI-P3 (try doing THAT with a CRT!!!);
* Accurate calibration (for every unit) in the factory (or by the user, using the HP Advanced Profiling Solution for the DreamColor Display);
* High-precision color and tone mapping with the 36-bit HP DreamColor Engine (an electronic subsystem in the monitor); and
* A true 30-bit panel (despite rumors to the contrary!) which allows the HP DreamColor Engine to map input colors to a true palette of 1.07 billion physically displayable colors. This reduces color error when performing the color and tone mapping.
Accurate tone response (gamma) is achieved through the same path, and is enabled by the panel's 1000:1 contrast ratio.
(Note: the HP LP2480zx does not implement any "dynamic contrast ratio" techniques, as HP regards these as inappropriate for a reference display.)
(Also note: some standard color spaces, such as sRGB, use a complex tone response curve consisting of a linear section at near-blacks followed by a gamma curve. The HP LP2480zx implements this type of tone response accurately for sRGB.)
Now, a question I have is, "what is the color space of the RED images?". If it's a standard color space, such as Rec. 709, then simply displaying the images on the monitor, with the monitor set to "Rec. 709" mode (using the on-screen menu) will give accurate results, as long as there's no color management being performed by the viewer application and/or the operating system.
Having said that, probably the best way to use the display is in "Full" mode, which means that the display's wide physical gamut is available to the computer. Of course, to achieve this, the Mac Pro must know the gamut, whitepoint and gamma of the LP2480zx's "Full" mode. On Mac OS X, this is usually achieved when the graphics card reads the display's "EDID" (Extended Device ID), which is a string of bytes in the display, which report such things as the manufacturer ID, the model number, the date manufactured, the physical size, preferred resolutions, etc, etc. Among those data is information on the display's color space (R, G, B, W and gamma). As long as the display reports these parameters correctly, Mac OS X can apply color management, "knowing" the color parameters of the output device (the display). In my view, this is the best way to go. Or, if you want a Rec. 709 workflow, then you can experiment with the display in "Rec. 709" mode.
"Full" is definitely the appropriate choice if the RED images are encoded for a wide color gamut. In this case, the viewer application will have to perform the necessary color management which accounts for the source profile. Then, Mac OS X can use the LP2480zx's EDID to account for the output device profile, and the color transformations should be accurate and trustable. Just like any color-critical workflow, it's up to the user to ensure that the chain of color transformations (if any) is correct. The LP2480zx provides both wide gamut and accurate color space compliance, depending on how you want to stack your profiles.
One word of warning, though: By default, the display's EDID doesn't get updated when you change the color space mode of the display. The recipe at the end of this message shows you how to enable "Auto EDID Update" so that Mac OS X will be notified that you changed the preset, and will therefore re-read the EDID. Note that when this happens, the desktop will blank for moment while Mac OS X responds to what is effectively a hot-plug event.
I hope this helps!
Best regards,
Dan Bennett
HP DreamColor Technologist
---
Recipe for enabling Auto EDID Update (especially important for Mac users):
The as-shipped On Screen Display (OSD) settings of the LP2480zx will cause the Full gamut of the display to be reported whenever the EDID information is queried by the host computer even if a different color space preset is active. To enable the LP2480zx to report the active color space settings and immediately notify the host computer of the change, the Auto EDID Update setting (set to OFF in the factory) needs to be set to ON.
Mac users are especially encouraged to enable Auto EDID Update. When a monitor is connected to a Mac, the OS immediately reads the EDID and creates a color profile that reflects the color settings of the monitor. Since the LP2480zx can take on different color characteristics, if the user chooses anything other than the Full color space preset, if this change is not made, the Mac will install a color space profile that doesn’t match the current monitor settings. For example, if the user selects the sRGB color space preset, the applications that support color management will display very subdued colors.
The following steps will cause the monitor’s EDID information to be updated whenever a color space is changed, and will cause the Host to be notified by signaling Hot Plug Detection.
* Open the OSD
- Press any of the bezel buttons once
- Press the “Open OSD” button
* Open the Management screen
- The OSD opens on the “Main Menu”
- Press the “Next” bezel button until the “Management…” selection is highlighted
- Press the “Select/Open” button to enter the “Management” Menu
* Open the Auto EDID Update screen
- Press the “Next” bezel button until the “Auto EDID Update” selection is highlighted
- Press the “Select/Open” button to enter the “Auto EDID Update” Menu
* Change the “Auto EDID Update” setting to “ON”
- Press the “Reduce Set” bezel button until the “On” selection is highlighted
- Press the “Select/Save” button
- Press the “Select/Open” button to action “Save and Return”
* Exit the OSD
- Press the “Exit OSD” bezel button
Note: The Hot Plug Detect Support must be Enabled for the monitor to immediately notify the host computer of the color space change. If Hot Plug Detect Support is Disabled, the host computer will not learn of the color space change until the next time it happens to request the EDID information. On a PC, that may not happen until the cable is disconnected and reconnected. On a Mac, the next time the system reboots or resumes from sleep it will re-read the EDID and install an appropriate color profile.
Hot Plug Detect Support
Some older video cards and drivers may not respond correctly to the Hot Plug Detect events sent by the LP2480zx. If the user experiences issues at startup (or resume from sleep) where the LP2480zx is either blank or attempts to display the screen briefly and then goes blank repeatedly, the user should Disable the Hot Plug Detect Support.
To access the “Hot Plug Detect Support”.
* Open the “Video Input Control” menu
- Press any of the bezel buttons once
- Press the “Input Select” button
* Open the “Hot Plug Detect Support” screen
- Press the “Next” bezel button to highlight the “Hot Plug Detect Support” selection
- Press the “Select/Open” button to enter the “Hot Plug Detect Support” Menu
* Change the “Hot Plug Detect Support” setting
- Press the “Reduce Set” bezel button until the “Disable” selection is highlighted
- Press the “Select/Save” button to accept the highlighted choice
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Jean Deraps on Dec 2, 2008 at 6:43:15 am
Thank you both for your replies. I was about to reply to your comment Jerry, to say that I was aware that we're not supposed to do grading on a mere "computer display", but the HP DreamColor LP2480zx, as Dan has pointed out, is not your ordinary computer display.
Dan, thanks for the in-depth overview of the monitor as well as the instructions for getting the Mac to recognize the different color spaces. I do have a few additional questions and comments for you.
First of all, on the Reduser.net forums, there is much talk about how the DreamColor is not really a 30 bit monitor since the monitor's LCD "panel" is only eight bit. Frankly, it has been very difficult for me to get the straight dope from anyone regarding whether or not the panel is really 30 bits. I even called HP here in Canada and no one had a clue. I purchased the monitor on the basis of what I read in HP marketing materials, thinking an honorable company like HP would not write fraudulent claims for their products (see DreamColor and HP DreamColor LP2480zx Professional Display: Frequently Asked Questions at this link:
http://h20202.www2.hp.com/Hpsub/downloads/DreamColor_and_LP2480zx_FAQ_June0...
At any rate, on one of the reduser.net forums (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=337581#post337581) someone pointed out another website where a review was posted:
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1033337918
The reviewer comes down hard on the DreamColor, saying that it dithers badly. So I did the same test, and, lo and behold, it does dither on my monitor also. I would like to know why it does so? Is there some setting that we have to apply to eliminate dithering? Something strange is going on since I see no dithering on my Dell 2405 monitor when I do the same test. Both are connected to the same graphics card on my MacPro (yes, they aren't 30 bit cards, but like everyone else, I'm waiting for them to appear). So I don't understand why my expensive DreamColor dithers, but my older much less expensive Dell doesn't. This is, of course, clearly unacceptable.
Concerning the Auto EDID update, how can I know/check in Mac OS X that the new colorspace has been detected? I set this setting to "on" but I didn't see any difference.
For your information, RED has its own RAW colorspace, but allows one to assign either RAW, its own "REDspace" or REC 709 in metadata (which can be changed in post). I use the REC 709 for grading in Apple Color.
Thanks again for your help and useful information!
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Dan Bennett on Dec 2, 2008 at 5:17:08 pm
Hello Jean,
[For new readers: I work for HP.]
First things first: Yes, the LP2480zx DOES have a true 30-bit panel (10 bits per channel). It was created specially for HP, for this product.
Let me say it again: Yes, the LP2480zx DOES have a 30-bit panel.
And once more: 30-bit panel! Yes!!
The marketing materials are correct. :-)
In fact, the discussions on REDuser (which I will try to get onto) are wrong in another respect: The processing is at 36 bits (12 per channel), not 30. Therefore, there are two paths to blessing, as it were:
1 - 8-bit pixels are color-transformed with 12-bit math and sent to the 10-bit panel. This reduces color error / increases color accuracy. And the 12-bit math helps to ensure that you don't get similar colors collapsing to the same color, for example.
2 - 10-bit pixels (when you get that 10-bit graphics card!) are passed straight through to the panel; at least in "Full" mode. Of course, in a color managed mode such as Rec 709, there'll be some reduction of the monitor's native color space to map onto the Rec 709 color space, which means that not all 1.07 billion colors are available. It's hard to say what the real number is, but if you imagine, say, 800-900 million it wouldn't be too far off. Still much better than an 8-bit panel. :-)
Regarding the apparent dithering seen by you and others, well, I've seen it too. From what I recall, it gets improved/fixed with newer firmware and with recalibration. But I'm following up with the engineers who work on the product, and I will let you know.
In the meantime, please let me know the firmware version of your display (look in the "Information" section of the OSD). Note that if I end up recommending that you update your firmware, you'll need a Windows PC or laptop to do it. We don't at this time have a Mac version of the firmware update tool.
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Dan Bennett on Dec 2, 2008 at 10:44:43 pm
Yes, that's the original firmware revision. The current one is TR:133.
In fact, I *think* that the "Hot Plug Detect Support" (found under "Video Input Control") may not even be present in TR:107.
I can post details here of how to update the firmware. Remember, it needs to be done from a Windows computer.
If you're changing the color space on the display, and the Mac isn't blanking the screen for a few seconds, then the likelihood is that it's not making the change; and I would suspect that you need the new firmware.
I'll post again soon with a recipe for obtaining and installing the firmware.
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Dan Bennett on Dec 2, 2008 at 11:09:15 pm
How to update LP2480zx firmware
Check the current firmware versions
* On the monitor, press any menu button
* Select “Open OSD”
* Select “Information”
* Look at “Version”
The latest (as of today, 12/02/08) is “TR133:SL063:BL167”. There are three firmware modules, hence the three version numbers.
The original units had TR107:SL054 ("BL" wasn't reported).
Download the firmware update SoftPaq (it’s only available for Windows):
o Go to HP’s support page: http://www.hp.com/support
o Choose your region and language.
o Select “Download drivers and software (and firmware)”.
o Put “lp2480zx” into the product field and press “Enter”.
o Select the OS of the computer you’re going to use to perform the firmware update.
o Download the current “HP LP2480zx Firmware Update” package.
To install the firmware:
O Connect the display to the Windows computer that you're updating from. DVI or VGA connection is likely to be the most reliable for the firmware update (DisplayPort or HDMI may not work so smoothly).
o Connect the USB cable (provided in the LP2480zx box) from the computer to the LP2480zx’s “upstream” connector (near the where the power cable connects on the underside of the display).
o Power-cycle the display by switching off the hard power switch (right next to the USB cable) on the underside of the display, and then on again after, say, 10 seconds.
o Open the firmware updater installer (the “sp.exe” file), and follow instructions. This installs the firmware updater.
o Run the firmware updater: Start Menu -> All Programs -> HP -> HP DA Firmware Updater -> HP DA Firmware Updater (or look for the icon on your desktop). Follow instructions.
o You should see the monitor go black, with a flashing green power LED. The LED flashes slowly for the upload phase, and faster for the flash update phase. The monitor will go through this process three times, once for each firmware module being updated.
o When done, the monitor should return to normal display, and you can verify that the revisions have been updated (see above for how to do that). If, however, it remains black for more than 10 minutes, or if the monitor is dark and the power light is glowing amber, you can power-cycle it with the hard power switch to restore normal operation, and try again.
o Follow the steps listed above to use the OSD to verify that the firmware has indeed been updated to “TR133:SL063:BL167” (or whatever is the latest).
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Dennis yeung on Dec 3, 2008 at 3:56:59 pm
Hi
we using an AJA HI-5 convert the HD-SDI(Kona 3) to HDMI into the LP2408zx, we can't change to REC 709, unless we change the output in 1080 25p mode, unfortunately the color and FCP didn't have the P mode only 1080i 25, so we only can use the full color setting, is there any way we can use the REC 709 with 1080i?
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Dan Bennett on Dec 3, 2008 at 10:22:45 pm
Hello Dennis,
No, you can't enable the LP2480zx's internal color engine when the video content is interlaced. This is also true for YUV content. In other words, the HP DreamColor Engine is available ONLY for progressive RGB content. This is due to the architecture of the display, and the re-tasking of its electronics when content needs to be deinterlaced or converted to RGB.
HP has seen good results with Gefen's HDSDI to HDMI converter, which can deinterlace and convert to RGB in the box, thereby delivering progressive RGB to the LP2480zx display, whatever the format of the content.
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Rich Wagner on Dec 4, 2008 at 6:43:42 am
Hi Dan,
I own one of these monitors. The first that I obtained suffered from display non-uniformity and had to be returned for a replacement panel, as it was not suitable for color-critical work. I know of two others who also had to request replacements for the same reason. While it is an excellent monitor, buyer beware, as this appears to be a widespread problem. HP's service, though, was fantastic.
The display ships without calibration software or a colorimeter, and standard software (and hardware) from X-Rite (Match, ProfileMaker Pro, PROFILER) and others (BasICColor Display, ColorEyes Display) will not work with this monitor. A developer from one of these companies (BasICColor) told me that HP has not been forthcoming with a SDK, so they have no immediate plans to add compatibility. Although standard colorimeters like the X-Rite i1 Display are not matched to this wide-gamut monitor, there is no reason that a spectro like the i1 Pro would not work - if only companies had the info they needed from HP to tune their software and communicate with the display.
To calibrate and profile the monitor, which is essential before any professional work can be performed, it is necessary to purchase HP’s custom, matched X-Rite colorimeter and HP’s software, which was developed by X-Rite, to the tune of another $350. Unfortunately, the software is the absolute bare minimum needed to calibrate and profile the display. It absolutely sucks compared to BasICColor Display and ColorEyes Pro or even X-Rite’s Eye-One Match. There is not even feedback to confirm the actual measured values reached after calibration and profiling, and there’s certainly nothing like CIECAM02 available, or trending.
The color of the display is magnificent. This model appears well-made, although even the hood is optional and seriously overpriced. The software nearly neuters the display, though, and HP really needs to allow competing software products access to the information that they need (through a SDK or specs) to allow those products to work with this display. Even if I have to use the custom colorimeter, I want my choice of software, and HP isn't even on the list long list.
As far as the 30-bit business goes, my understanding is that there is a 10-bit per channel LUT in the monitor, similar to other high-end monitors, that is accessed through calibration. This is certainly a big improvement over low-end monitors that do their “calibration” via the LUT on the 8-bit video board, resulting in a loss of levels from the 256/channel available on the video board.
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Tom Lianza on Jan 3, 2009 at 7:56:51 pm
Hello Rich,
I just read your comment on the calibration software and I wanted to clear up some misconseptions that you might have. I was on the ObiWan design team and the data path on this display is quite different from any other display. Unlike many of the displays that you are used to working with, this display does not have a typical LUT structure and it was not aimed at the typical graphic arts professional or photographer. The display does not have traditional RGB gains. The display has adjustable color space and this puts some rather stiff constraints on the use of look tables. The display has a built in matrix shaper lut configuration. This consists of an input lut, 3X3 hardware multiplier and an output lut as well as a scalable white point. The first look up table, must, by definition be the canonical transfer function of the color space. If it is not, the 3/x3 multiply will introduce large color errors due to the non-linearity. The white point setting is a function both of the matrix multiply and the backlight adjustment. There is no independent control of backlight RGB. The multiplying matrix is a trim factor for white and it sets the primary mappaing. The second LUT must correct the display color drift and it must, again by definition, be the inverse of the display Optical transfer function. While you might have certain preferences for display calibration software, the typical functions that you desire cannot easily be employed in this display pipeline. If you wanted L* mapping in the display, you would have to make sure your graphics card generated the output in L* form. This means you would be putting a LUT in front of a LUT. You would quantize your out put to the display. The only thing that I wish I could have added in the display pipeline was an offset to lower the display contrast ratio.
The application features that you desire that are found in the other apps that use RGB gains and LUTs are not really implementable in this display.
I personally use this display in an ADOBE RGB workflow with the display set to ADOBE_RGB and the full X-rite profile applied. In photoshop, this gives the best display / print correspondence that I have ever encountered. The display correspondence in a non color managed workflow using ADOBE RGB and my Epson printer set to ADOBE RGB, the display to print matching is limited by the 1000:1 contrast ratio of the display. This is why I would like to be able to implement a brightness adjustment.
I hope this clears up some misunderstandings, but if you want to talk off the forum, contact me at tlianza at xrite dot com.
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Ken Ouellette on Jan 26, 2009 at 9:21:51 pm
Just curious to learn more about what card/cable was being use here. I've tried to use the DisplayPort via the quadro 4800FX but the HP profiling software doesn't like "talking" across it at all.
Would a DVI calibration be "suitable" to be used after wards if you swapped to the Displayport, or would you really need to be calibrate via display port.
I understand the rec1.3 of HDMI will support 10bits but that isn't an option without going through a black box. Supposedly there is a trick to get DVI-D to work with 10bits, but I haven't been able to verify that it is working.
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Ken Ouellette on Jan 26, 2009 at 11:17:47 pm
Here's another question
Anyone have information why this would be?
Might be of interest... I just doubled checked the DCI spec and the DCI preset in the monitor
Spec as per the 1.2 pdf
RGB Primaries
X y
R 0.680 .320
G 0.265 0.690
B 0.150 0.060
Gamma 2.6
48/cd/m^2
White point of 0.314 0.351
-----------------------------
Monitor
X y
R 0.680 0.300
G 0.205 0.690
B 0.150 0.060
Gamma 2.6
48cd/m^2
5900K<--in the OSD (.314 .351 can be seen in the HP software)
Dreamcolor question by Donald Baker on Oct 6, 2009 at 10:19:39 pm
I am very interested in the HP 2480zx but I have a few questions before I think about ordering one.
First of all I'd like to know if my new graphic card (Nvidia Quadro FX3800) is up to the job for this display?
Secondly I have a digital photo hobby and I read in one of the forums that this display is not best suited for that task. Can you give me the straight scoop on this?
Lastly I'm sure this is only an opinion but I read a post by a person who sounds like he's in the know that production 2480's have a lower grade panel than the first introduction models did. Just had to ask...Thanks much, Don in Sturgis SD
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Jan Polak on Feb 14, 2009 at 7:14:40 pm
Hi Dan,
I spend many hours trying to update the firmware-I followed step by step your instruction, unfortunate nothing happen .
I just noticed that the power Led is not changing to green and stays amber all the time- perhaps this is an indication that the USB is not connected?
I will much appreciate your help
Regards
Jan
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Greg Staten on Feb 20, 2009 at 8:59:34 pm
Hi Jan.
My apologies for the delay posting but I have only recently been made aware of this thread.
Dan is no longer supporting the DreamColor LP2480zx. I'm the DreamColor Solutions Architect at HP and I'm the new point of contact on Creative Cow for this monitor.
Could you tell me a little more about how you have your system configured? Did the firmware update process begin (with the monitor going black and the OSD buttons flashing on and off in one second intervals? If yes, did this condition (monitor black with flashing buttons) occur three times (with the monitor powering back up and showing you the desktop between each update cycle)?
Again, sorry for the delay responding, but I look forward to helping you through this.
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Shawn Larkin on Feb 21, 2009 at 9:43:09 pm
Hi Greg,
I've recently purchased a Dreamcolor LP2480zx to do some grading of DPX in filmspace and to monitor a downconvertion to Rec 709.
I'm sure there are plenty that diagree with trusting the monitor, but I want to give it a try, test it out, and know if it is as good as it is suppossed to be.
Basically, can you tell me if you have tested/know how I might use this display with Color? As in:
1) Should I be using the the custom calibration setting of the monitor using my Mac (and a calibrator) and then simply work out of color trusting what I see for each of the different source materials?
OR
2) Is it best to use the preset color spaces in the HP that correspond to the media type. For instance, with DPX files, I would set the monitor to film space. And with HD video, I would set the monitor to Rec 709, etc. etc.
OR
3) It there another option I don't know about.
Anyhow, it would be great if you or an HP engineer, or someone in the know, could clarify how you would approach monitoring film/video files over DVI with Apple Color.
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Greg Staten on Feb 23, 2009 at 7:35:12 pm
Hi Shawn.
I'm going to be working on a document on how to best configure the LP2480zx when working with Color next month and will write up a detailed white paper about the process (once I get a few other white papers out). But in the meantime, my initial findings point out that an excellent approach would be to configure the monitor to work in the specific color space you are targetting (i.e. ITU-R BT.709 or DCI-P3) and work from there.
Sorry that I don't have anything written up yet, but there were several other hotter irons in the fire that queued up in front of it. I will definitely, however, be putting together white papers on using the LP2480zx with Color and (as a separate document) FCP.
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Shawn Larkin on Feb 24, 2009 at 3:30:34 am
Hi Greg,
Thanks for the reply. I've actually been following Sam's thread to ready myself for any future problems as well.
Frankly, I know there is a bunch of us out there that would like to know the "definitive" HP way to use this monitor with: Color and Final Cut Pro.
Apparently, each program deals with color management in its own way--as does QuickTime. So if you have the accessibility to Apple's engineers or can just dig it up in their help documents (which I already couldn't find anything of value in), then please by all means tell us "the way" to use this monitor professionally if we are not using a Matrox MXO or one of the Aja/Blackmagic cards to feed it a signal.
In short, how can you connect the Dreamcolor directly to a Mac via DVI and get accurate result for the appropriate color spaces for film and video in Color and FCP?
Can't wait to read your answers/white papers. Seriously.
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by sam mestman on Feb 24, 2009 at 4:18:11 am
Hi Greg,
I guess me and Shawn are tagteaming you here... sorry. After reading Shawn's post as well, a couple more things occurred to me (in addition to my earlier post about calibrating the display profile, which I definitely need some help with at this point). First... if you're using Color, what video cards will actually work with YCbCr codecs for the HDMI in? I checked the blackmagic design website and it seems to me the specs for the Decklink HD extreme as far as HDMI goes aren't any different than the intensity (but I might be wrong), meaning that no actual HDMI card that I'm aware of will work with this monitor as it's supposed to in a typical final cut/color workflow (prores or uncompressed), as neither of those codecs are RGB, meaning that anything you send out to the monitor via HDMI will bypass the Dreamcolor engine. Please tell me I'm wrong and which card I should think about getting, as I'd love to be able to monitor using the HDMI in. I'd normally be fine with DVI, but the larger problem is that if you cant actually run a video out from color to this monitor, you're stuck using the preview scopes with DVI in a dual monitor setup or with digital desktop preview in final cut, which aren't an accurate representation of your graded image from what I've been told. Pretty much, I'm dying to know what the recommended FCS 2 workflow would be to monitor a project finishing in a rec 709 HDTV /HDcam master workflow.using either DVI or HDMI that guarantees what you see is what you get on output.
Sorry about all the questions, but I want to make sure I'm getting the most out of this monitor and that I'm using it in the proper way (especially in terms of calibration and color space), and that I can trust it to do what I need it to do. Unfortunately, you're the only person I've seen on any of these forums that has any of the answers I need. Thanks in advance for your patience.
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Greg Staten on Feb 24, 2009 at 2:31:47 pm
No problem, Shawn.
I completely agree with you that the way color profiles are handled can be extremely confusing - and frustrating!
Fortunately, I have good contacts and resources in the ProApps team and both them and I want to make sure that we provide the information you and every other editor/colorist using FCP and Color have the information you need to properly configure your system.
The first two white papers coming out deal with general MacOS ICC profile configuration and HD-SDI connections to the monitor. Those should be up on the website first and, assuming things move smoothly through legal and the web team in a week or two. Then additional ones will follow, ideally every few weeks until they are all out. The next one will probably be one dealing with Photoshop but FCP and Color follow that in the queue. I also have non-platform specific white papers that are ready to post regarding working with the DCC profile and other such topics.
My goal is to have a complete Macintosh section of white papers and guides on the HP website so that you all have the information you need to get the most out of this monitor.
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Shawn Larkin on Feb 24, 2009 at 3:52:49 pm
Again, thanks Greg.
We all can't wait to hear how to handle this monitor properly. The thing that I am confused about is that it doesn't have SDI right? Am I missing something here or are your articles going to include using a card of some sort out of the mac and converting SDI to DVI or HDMI?
My biggest concern is basically that you can get accurate/professional results from this monitor going directly out of the GFX card over DVI (or with the new MacBook Pros over mini display port converted to DVI).
Any thoughts of the feasibility of this before you write up the details? I mean I need to grade for video (601 / 709) space and film space and I was hoping to not have to use an MXO or a video card, but just the DVI port from my GFX card (and maybe a LUT for film emulation using the full color range of the display).
Perhaps--at the end of the day--this is unrealistic due to the nature of DVI and how these apps are built.
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Greg Staten on Feb 25, 2009 at 3:31:14 pm
Hi Shawn.
You're absolutely right that the DreamColor monitor doesn't have an HD-SDI/SDI port. The first white paper on the proper display of video imagery references the use of a Gefen HD-SDI to HDMI converter. It even includes instructions of the proper configuration and usage of that device. We're also evaluating other devices including the Cine-tal Davio, but the first white paper will only cover the Gefen device.
Regarding the use of the image directly out of the graphics card (so that the images displayed on the "computer output" are correct, that will be the subject of another white paper. My goal is to write a white paper specifically for Color. Hopefully that will release some time in March. Certainly if you're doing film grading of 2K images you'll want to use your computer's output rather than color space converting (and chopping/resizing to 1080p).
BTW - did you know the DreamColor LP2480zx can accept a 2048x1200 signal? It will display a 1920-wide "center cut" of the source.
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Shawn Larkin on Feb 27, 2009 at 4:16:20 pm
Hi Greg,
You have pretty much cleared up and demystified everything I wanted to know about the Dreamcolor before employing it in my pipeline. Just one other detail to clarify:
On another thread you mention using the HP calibration software / probe made specifically for the Dreamcolor. I understand that you can do a "hardware calibration" of the updated ICC/ICM profile (which is actually stored in the Dreamcolor). What I don't get, is can you still use this same Dreamcolor specific probe and software to do "software calibration" on non-Dreamcolor monitors, where the updated ICC/ICM profile is stored on the computer (like OS X's monitor display preferences)?
Also, if you can send me any white papers, updates, news, etc. regarding the Dreamcolor, that would be helpful:
jetboyfilms@me.com
Finally, is HP still producing the Dreamcolor? I read somewhere that is was already discontinued.
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Greg Staten on Feb 27, 2009 at 4:46:57 pm
Hi Shawn.
Glad to hear I've help clear things up! To answer your questions:
The HP DreamColor probe can be used to calibrate other monitors. Since they have a narrower gamut, it is easy for the probe to operate as a "standard" i1D2 and calibrate other monitors. The HP Advanced Profiling software provides you with that option.
Regarding the discontinuation of the LP4280zx? Absolutely not! Not only is it not discontinued, but there are no plans to do so. HP relocated me from New England back in December (where I was the product designer for Media Composer and Symphony at Avid Technology) to take the reins of the DreamColor. They wouldn't have done that if they were going to to discontinue the monitor!
Finally, regarding the white papers, I'm putting the finishing touches on a couple of white papers and will email them to you once they've cleared legal - probably late next week or early the week after.
"Note: The Hot Plug Detect Support must be Enabled for the monitor to immediately notify the host computer of the color space change." In the post, Dan goes through the steps to enable this.
My question is: Once Hot Plug Detect Support is enabled, is it as simple as selecting another colorspace on the live monitor and presto, the OS recognizes the change and we are into the chosen space--without a reboot or sleep mode?
Like if I am looking at something in Color with the full gamut of the Dreamcolor activated and a film LUT applied (in order to monitor for a film print) AND THEN I switch the space to REC 709 on the Dreamcolor (and turn off my LUT in Color), should the image "just be" displayed in the correct 709 space?
Or is there something that has to be adjusted on the computer (OS X) first to recognize the color space shift even after I have enabled Hot Detect Support?
Anyhow, that really is the last question...until those white papers show up...
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Greg Staten on Feb 27, 2009 at 7:42:45 pm
Hi Shawn.
The answer to whether the MacOS will immediately recognize the color space conversion, re-characterize the monitor and switch to a newly generated ICC profile is, unfortunately, "it depends."
If you are using the default ICC profile that Apple generated when the monitor was first connected (and haven't either calibrated it or manually selected a custom profile) then the answer is "yes," it will automatically characterize the monitor and generate a new profile.
But, if you've either calibrated or manually selected a custom profile then the system will not switch ICC profiles when it detects a hot plug connection. Essentially by manually selecting a profile or calibrating a profile you've told the MacOS that you "know what you're doing" and as long as the monitor identifies as the same type it last saw it won't change the profile for you.
Instead you'll have to manually switch profiles via the Monitors setting.
The reason for this is that the concept of a monitor with multiple switchable color spaces didn't exist when Apple (and Microsoft with Windows) were figuring this all out and doing the work. The DreamColor LP2480zx is very unique in this capability and the OSes simply don't expect this behavior.
Therefore I recommend you have ICCs generated for each profile you're going to use and save them out - with the correct name for each profile. (Don't forget, if you are starting with a MacOS-generated profile to enable Native Gamma instead of that silly 1.8 gamma default.)
That said, this procedure is MUCH easier and more gracefully handled on the MacOS. It is a more cumbersome process on Windows.
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Shawn Larkin on Feb 27, 2009 at 9:12:46 pm
Thanks Greg,
I'm hoping not to wait on this with the white paper since I do need to change gamuts between Adobe 1998 and sRGB amongst others. I'm a bit confused with:
"Instead you'll have to manually switch profiles via the Monitors setting."
AND
"Therefore I recommend you have ICCs generated for each profile you're going to use and save them out - with the correct name for each profile."
That doesn't seem like "Hot Plug Detect" to me. So maybe it is just a terminology thing. But why am I going out of my why to enable this again?
To clarify, I think what you are saying is something like:
1) Switch the monitor to the selected color space you want.
2) Create a profile (using OS X or using the HP calibration software or using both?) for that space that is saved in the usual OS X monitor preferences pane.
3) Repeat steps 1 and 2 for each color space you will want to use.
4) When you switch the color space on the monitor, make sure you go into OS X and also select the matching custom profile you created in step 2.
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Shawn Larkin on Mar 3, 2009 at 4:51:14 pm
If you are still there Greg...
I hope I didn't scare you away with all my questions; I was a bit frustrated with the whole hot plug detection stuff--I don't understand it's function at this point. It would be great if you could further explain. Sorry for my confusion.
Also, it seems that if you did a full "hardware calibration" and saved this in the monitor, then you could unplug the monitor, plug in a temp monitor, boot your machine, and then switch back to the Dreamcolor. In this scenario, you wouldn't have to use the OS X profiles and you could just switch the spaces on the Dreamcolor--right?
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Greg Staten on Mar 5, 2009 at 4:06:02 pm
Hi Shawn.
My apologies for the delay responding. In the craziness that always comes with a month's end your posting slipped past my attention.
I do recommend manually saving and switching profiles for one simple reason: Apple's Color Sync architecture never expected to encounter a monitor that could switch its color spaces on the fly. (Windows didn't either, but things are easier to deal with on the Mac in this regard.) And the fact that Apple likes to use a 1.8 gamma by default is what adds the big gotcha to the equation.
Here's how "hot plug detection" works on the Mac. When the system is told that there's a new monitor connected - which is what it is told when it receives a hot plug announcement - it queries the monitor and finds out what it is. Then it creates a profile for that monitor.
Now here comes the gotcha. After it queries the monitor it checks to see if there is a user calibration ICC file for that monitor. (This ICC file would have been user-created by using either calibration software or the Display Calibrator Assistant.) If that user calibration file exists and was active Display Profile the last time that monitor was used, it does NOT use the newly-created profile, but instead uses the user-created profile.
Now for the 1.8 gamma gotcha. One of the things we - and just about every monitor manufacturer out there - recommend is to use the monitor's default gamma and not the Mac's 1.8 gamma. So we recommend to Mac users that they use either calibration software or the Display Calibrator Assistant to set the gamma to the Native monitor gamma. Doing this single step results in the creation of the aforementioned user calibration ICC.
Believe me, I wish this was simpler. I really do. But we're dealing with a new - and still relatively unique - monitor capability that just wan't considered.
The steps you listed are exactly what the white paper describes. I'm sorry that it isn't out yet, but it follows the video white paper - which is nearly ready for release - and is being expanded slightly to discuss proper profile assignment in Photoshop, Lightroom, and Aperture. (I realize you likely don't use these programs, but profile assignment is a key step that must be done in order for photos and graphic images to be displayed correctly.)
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by sam mestman on Feb 22, 2009 at 3:02:40 am
Glad I finally found this thread... been wondering how to actually find out how to contact anyone from HP directly. Anyway, I have one of these, and I've been pretty impressed by it. The one major question I have is about monitoring through HDMI. If you have a Blackmagic HDMI intensity card and you're running a 1080 signal out to the dreamcolor through it:
1. How accurate will this signal be? As in, what color space is this being shown in through HDMI if you've used the Advanced color profiling solution? Does the HDMI input ignore your calibration completely? Basically, any info you have on what the Dreamcolor is doing with its HDMI input would be greatly appreciated. Been looking around everywhere on the net for this... and no one ever seems to give a straight answer.
2. When will you be releasing Firmware updates for Macs? I only have a mac, and while I was able to somehow find the profiling solution software for OSX, finally... I'm wondering why there is so little support for mac users when it seems to me that so many of your customers use macs... seeing as how this monitor is designed specifically for the graphcis/photo/video crowd...
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Greg Staten on Feb 23, 2009 at 7:59:18 pm
Hi Sam.
I'm glad we both found it!
Regarding using HDMI signals, according to the HDMI spec, a 1080-line signal should use the ITU-R BT.709 color space. And, according to spec, when you feed a 525-line or 625-line signal via HDMI the signal is supposed to be in the ITU-R BT.601 color space.
So, if you're feeding a 1080-line signal to the LP2480zx from the Blackagic Intensity card, you should set your DreamColor monitor to use the Rec.709 color space.
There is a gotcha, though. From reading the posted specs at Blackmagic's website, it appears that the Intensity/Intensity Pro card only outputs in YCbCr color space and not RGB. Due to a design limitation of the DreamColor engine, the monitor can only do its color space management/emulation when fed a progressive RGB signal. This means that when you use the Intensity card, you'll the monitor will be at full gamut without any color space management. The image you'll see will likely be extremely saturated and not match a proper HD broadcast monitor.
If you want to work with HDMI output, you need to work with a device that can feed the monitor an RGB signal. And if you are working with 1080-line material, you must either be working at 1080p or using a device that can de-interlace 1080i and feed a 1080p signal. (Note that this must be a proper progressive signal and not a progressive segmented frame (PsF) signal as PsF is a flavor of interlaced encoding.)
Regarding the firmware updater, unfortunately there are no plans at this time to develop a Macintosh version of the firmware updater tool. This tool was written by a third party and they do not have any Mac development expertise. I can say without hesitation that the firmware updater does work on an Intel Mac running under Windows in boot camp. I am working to see if I can get it to run under either VMWare Fusion or Parallels Desktop and will release the steps required if I am successful in doing so.
Please let me know if you need any more information or further clarification.
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by sam mestman on Feb 23, 2009 at 9:15:31 pm
Hi Greg,
Really appreciate you getting back to me. Enormously helpful. Now, one question that popped into my head was, if working with 1080 material with an intensity card... would a workaround to the 1080i problem be to monitor in the intensity's 720p 59,94 mode? If I have this right... as long as the signal is progressive... what you see should be what you get, right? If you can't tell, I'd love to be able to use this monitor on a machine with an intensity card.
Also, another question I have is... if I update my firmware on a windows machine, and then move the monitor back to my mac... what happens? Will everything still work as it should? Is there are a process I should follow if working with a mac and doing an update on a windows machine?
Lastly, my monitor looks very washed out and desaturated when set to rec709 mode coming in through DVI... I realize that's naturally supposed to be the case (a little), but there's a drastic difference between rec 709 and then when I try it in 601 or Adobe RGB. I saw in some of the earlier posts about the auto EDID, and I tried enabling that, but it didn't make much of a difference. Any ideas?
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Greg Staten on Feb 23, 2009 at 10:46:51 pm
Hi Sam. Glad to be of assistance.
Going off the specs and posted manual for the Intensity Pro, I'd have to say that no, it wouldn't be enough to switch to 720p output as it appears that the Eclipse only outputs as YCbCr and cannot output as RGB. Unfortunately the signal must be both progressive and interlaced or the DreamColor engine will be bypassed.
Regarding the output, certainly Rec.709 can appear to be less saturated than Adobe RGB as Adobe RGB has a much larger gamut. But it is also possible that something's not configured correctly. Could you do me a favor, switch to sRGB and compare what you see there to Rec.709? Other than the default brightness, the two should be identical. If you're seeing a difference then something else is mucking up the works. The next step I'd recommend is switch the monitor back to Rec.709 and do the following:
1. Open up the Displays setting and (if you have more than one monitor connected) select the Displays widow for the LP2480zx.
2. Select the Color tab
3. Click the Open Profile button to open the Color Sync Utility and display the active monitor profile (ICC profile).
4. Select the "Apple display native information" line (it should be line 10).
5. Click on the Phosphor values tab.
The phosphor values are the actual x/y coordinates for the Red, Green, and Blue primaries for the color profile. Please respond to this message with the values you see there for Red, Green, Blue, and White.
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by sam mestman on Feb 23, 2009 at 11:34:37 pm
Hey Greg,
Thanks for getting back to me so quickly... so, I opened up the profile I made with the advanced profiling solution and there isn't a "apple display native information" listing... in fact, there's only 8 listings. However, I opened up the display profile for my other monitor, and all of the listings are there. Weird. I think there's a probably a problem here. Is there a way I can contact you directly, possibly? If so, you can email me at samfilm777@mac.com with a phone number... I got lost in the HP support maze last time I tried to call about this monitor. I'd really appreciate it. Thanks.
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by sam mestman on Feb 24, 2009 at 5:25:46 am
Yet another post... sorry again. I went back into the display profiles to try and figure out what was going on. Realized I had my monitor set on on the HP LP2480zx_D65.icc profile which only had the eight entries when I opened it, and I realized there was another on there called HP LP2480zx-3C09BCC1.icc which has all of them. Here are the Phosphor values you asked for:
Red:
X: 0.6895
Y: 0.3018
Green
X: 0.2002
Y: 0.7158
Blue
X: 0.1527
Y: 0.619
White
X: 0.3135
Y: 0.3291
Might as well oost my next question, which is, which of the two profiles should I have selected? They do look very different when I select back and forth between them, and the non_65 profile is the only one which actually displays this information.
Also, as a follow up to the previous post (which you can sort of ignore now), I rechecked the HDMI specs for the Decklink HD extreme, and it does have better HDMI specs but it still lists its only 1080p output as 23.98psf, which you said won't work with the dreamcolor. My big question is, if I want to monitor a 1080 uncompressed 4:2:2 project via HDMI, is there any way to do this? Sorry about the last two confusing posts, and thanks for all your help.
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Greg Staten on Feb 24, 2009 at 3:31:59 pm
Hi Sam.
Those color primaries are definitely not correct for the sRGB color space. Fortunately this is easily correctable. One while paper that is in queue to post on the HP website covers this topic specifically. As you sent me your email address, I'll mail it to you directly so you don't have to wait for it to appear the HP website.
(If anyone else in this thread wants the white paper, please let me know and I'll be happy to send it along to you as well.)
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Roland Pfisterer on Feb 25, 2009 at 3:15:41 pm
Hello Greg,
what a good chance to get first hand information from somebody with insider knowledge!
I'd like to throw in a couple of questions of my own:
1) A bit upthread people mentioned that this monitor can only be calibrated with the custom HP colorimeter and software. Is this correct, and can this colorimeter/software package also be used to calibrate other (non-HP) monitors? We have one DreamColor and a whole bunch of other monitors and would like to get them as close as possible to the DreamColor. Would be a pity if we had to buy two different colorimeters for that.
2) Just to clarify, the Rec.601 color space is the standard for SD analog TV/video and Rec.709 is the standard for HDTV, is that right or completely off?
3) If yes, how close are those two color spaces on this monitor to an actual TV screen? I guess you're going to say "very", but is this really a reliable replacement for a broadcast monitor?
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Greg Staten on Feb 25, 2009 at 3:58:36 pm
Hi Roland.
That's correct. The HP DreamColor calibration kit comes with a modified X-Rite i1D2 calibrator. Due to the very wide gamut of the monitor, we had to modify the calibrator's firmware so that it could properly read the monitor's wide gamut color primaries. (Essentially it had to be re-programmed to read a different base wavelength for each R,G,B primary.) Using a standard i1D2 will give incorrect results and wrong calibration.
At this point the calibration software for Mac and Windows (developed for us by X-Rite) does not support any other calibrators. That said, we and our studio partners have developed an open source calibration tool for Linux called Ookala (
http://sourceforge.net/projects/ookala-mcf/) that can be used with either the DreamColor i1D2 or an X-Rite Chroma5. In addition, the hooks are provided to write a driver for different calibration hardware.
Regarding the standards question, "Rec.601" refers to the ITU-R BT.601 standard which describes the color space and line structure for standard definition video (both 525-line and 625-line). And "Rec.709" refers to the ITU-R BT.709 standard which describes the color space and line structure for high definition video.
(BTW, a little bit of useful trivia: the color primaries and white point for Rec.709 is identical to those for sRGB.)
The color spaces, as implemented in the DreamColor LP2480zx exactly match the standard. This means that the monitor has the ability to very closely match a professional broadcast monitor, according to spec. There are a few things that you need to be aware of and some additional adjustment you may want to make (for example, to set the black level correctly for the type of signal you are feeding).
All of these are covered in a white paper that I'm just about finished writing. It will go up on the HP web site sometime in March, but I'd be happy to send it out to you - and others here - when it is completed.
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Roland Pfisterer on Feb 25, 2009 at 5:47:16 pm
Thank you, I'd be very grateful to receive the paper! This is my email address: roland (at) evilcorp.tv
So I'll have to get the custom calibrator package from HP for this monitor, but what I didn't get from your answer is whether I can use the whole thing (colorimeter & software together) with other monitors as well. If not, is there a way to use the calibration results from the DreamColor with another calibration software?
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Greg Staten on Feb 25, 2009 at 7:54:45 pm
Hi Roland. Sorry, I must have missed that part of your question.
The APS calibration software will allow you to perform a calibration of non-DreamColor monitors. If you launch the software with multiple monitors connected or with a monitor other than the DreamColor connected it will allow you to select it for calibration.
That said, this capability does introduce a risk. It is possible to tell the software to do a standard software calibration of the DreamColor LP2480zx which I emphatically don't recommend doing. When you are calibrating the DreamColor be sure to select it in the software - which you may have to do twice if you have multiple monitors connected (or have connected the monitor to a laptop) - otherwise you will not perform a hardware calibration of the monitor.
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Greg Staten on Feb 26, 2009 at 5:39:34 pm
Hi Roland.
Perhaps I wasn't as clear as I intended. What I was referring to was where the monitor calibration was stored. When you calibrate a typical monitor that calibration is stored in an updated ICC/ICM profile that records the characterization of the monitor post-calibration. When you calibrate the DreamColor LP2480zx monitor you can certainly do a standard ICC/ICM calibration, but the LP2480zx is somewhat unique in that it actually stores the calibration in the monitor's memory. We refer to that as a "hardware" calibration because the monitor's output profile is actually modified.
The advantage of a "hardware" calibration is that you can calibrate a monitor on one system and then move it to another and it maintains its calibration. This allows large facilities to use a single location to calibrate and then deploy those monitors throughout the facility.
A software calibration, on the other hand, requires that the calibration stored in the ICC/ICM profile be loaded onto the system that the monitor is to be connected to - and that that profile be loaded.
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Roland Pfisterer on Feb 26, 2009 at 5:55:58 pm
Yes, that makes perfect sense! It was roughly what I thought, but it's better to know for sure.
Thanks a lot for your extensive answers, this has been quite helpful!
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Tomas Hasa on Mar 3, 2009 at 9:53:42 am
Hello Greg,
thank you for many interesting information. I'm a beginner and I'm not sure if I've got it right. You wrote the ICM profile generated by the calibration SW is stored in the display memory. What does it mean if there is a same ICM profile set in the OS too? Those two profiles are active at the same time then?
Another question - is LUT in the grafic card involved in the calibration process?
And last bunch of questions - I have a dual boot PC (XP, Vista 64). I have calibrated my display in XP and I'd like to use this calibration in Vista as well. Do I have install calibration SW in Vista? Should I copy any "calibration" files from XP to Vista? And is it really necessary to run the CalibrationLoader.exe in both systems? And what is its purpose? I didn't notice any difference when I supressed its autostart and handled it manually.
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Greg Staten on Mar 3, 2009 at 3:40:50 pm
Hi Tomas.
It isn't an ICM profile that is stored in the display memory, rather the results of the calibration are stored there. Assuming you have used a standard calibration target (such as sRGB, Adobe RGB, and so on) then the monitor is ready to accept input from your computer using that standard.
The graphics card is not utilized in any special way during the calibration process - indeed it isn't even used to display the images seen during calibration as these are generated by the monitor's internal circuitry. At the end of the calibration we do not generate a special LUT for the graphics card.
When you're calibrated your hardware, the ICM profile on your system is used to inform the OS about the color space your monitor is currently calibrated to. If you calibrated - and are currently set to - the sRGB color space, then you're basically "good to go" on Windows Vista as it assumes the sRGB color space by default. I'd certainly recommend installing the monitor drivers though (which should happen automatically with Vista either when you first install the monitor or after you run Windows Update). BTW, on Windows XP I recommend that you manually install the monitor drivers (which are available either on the CD that came with the monitor on on the HP website).
Since you calibrated your system under XP, the XP side should be "good to go." It isn't necessary to install the calibration software on both systems. But if you calibrated to something other than sRGB, I do recommend you open the Color Management control panel in Vista and confirm that the correct ICM profile is set as the default.
BTW, the CalibrationLoader.exe software isn't really necessary for the DreamColor monitor since the calibration is stored in the monitor. CalibrationLoader is designed to load the calibration LUT into the graphics card for a conventional calibration (which is stored as a LUT on the system).
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Tomas Hasa on Mar 3, 2009 at 4:19:05 pm
Greg, you are the best one :)
I found no better source of information about lp2480zx than your posts here. I'm really happy you are so willing to share your knowledge.
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Tomas Hasa on Mar 4, 2009 at 8:03:13 am
Dear Greg,
one fried of mine has a problem with his LP2480zx and asked me to ask you :)
He uses Vista Ultimate 64bit with nVidia GTX295 and the calibration software doesn't recognize his LP2480zx. He's tried to connect the monitor to another DVI but no success. Could you give him some advice please?
And another common problem - how to check the result of the calibration? There is no feedback about dE and other things. Is it possible to measure the real white point and color space?
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Greg Staten on Mar 4, 2009 at 3:47:37 pm
Hi Tomas.
Though the calibration software is not officially supported on Vista x64 (due to the fact that X-Rite has not released a 64-bit version of the calibrator driver), we've tested it and it has worked correctly on the systems we tried.
Could you give me some more information regarding his system configuration? Does he have the USB connected? Is he connecting to the monitor via the DVI or the HDMI connection? Has he tried running the application as an Administrator? (Sometimes that can help when running with 32-bit drivers.) He might also try running it in compatibility mode.
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Tomas Hasa on Mar 4, 2009 at 5:46:02 pm
Hi Greg,
he had another card before and everything worked fine. This problem arose after he switched from the old VGA to a brave new GTX295. Anyway USB is connected and works. Optical probe's driver is correctly installed. Vista has been twice reinstalled. He has tried every available DVI ports. He doesn't use HDMI at all. In short he's already tried everything you suggested. My personal guess is that the card is the culprit (driver or firmware).
And what about calibration verification? Do you have some positive information? :)
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Greg Staten on Mar 4, 2009 at 10:49:47 pm
Hmm... I've not yet used that card, but it is certainly possible NVIDIA has done something that is causing the calibration to not recognize the monitor. I'll see if I can find out.
Regarding calibration verification/reporting, my apologies for not including that in my earlier reply. At this point in time the software provided for us by X-Rite does not perform any reporting. And unfortunately the way we store the data in the monitor means that most of the commercial reporting software cannot read it. Instead we use external measurement devices that generate those reports for us from their measurements.
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Stefan Luka on Mar 9, 2009 at 12:54:45 am
Hello Greg, I stumbled onto this thread while doing research on the DreamColor. We are using it in my lab to do some psychophysics experiments and I noticed some unusual aspect to the blacks when characterizing the monitor. In particular, it appears that the black values are being overquantized... this is pretty obvious in my measurements when I run a full neutral ramp from 0-255. However, if I disable color processing (menu+power) and repeat the measurements I see the smooth ramps I would have expected in the first place. Do you have any comments on this? I would be happy to send you an Excel file with my data if you are interested. FYI, I have updated the firmware, it does not seem to change anything.
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Keith Pratt on Mar 9, 2009 at 12:04:00 pm
Hi Greg,
As you can see by this thread, I'm holding out hope in the Dreamcolor, but considering alternatives. I found this thread after posting it, and am heartened that there is hope for the monitor and accurate viewing yet.
It's really good PR to have somebody here. As well as providing a place for detailing practical solutions, it gives the sense that HP are serious about this product. The white papers are also a great idea, and will hopefully become the basis on which I run my system.
A couple of questions to add to your burden: first, my Dreamcolor seems too red. Seems a very common complaint. Is this something the probe can deal with, or is it a manufacturing defect that necessitates repair or replacement?
Secondly, you mentioned the probe will work for other monitors. I'm thinking of getting an HP LP2475w — will the probe garner decent results seen as this is an HP and has a wider-than-usual gamut?
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Greg Staten on Mar 9, 2009 at 9:28:02 pm
Hi Keith.
Regarding the Red color, that isn't a common characteristic of the monitor and it is possible that your monitor requires recalibration. You should be able to correct this with the DreamColor calibration probe.
And yes, the calibration probe and software can create a profile (software calibration) of a non-DreamColor monitor. I've not done so myself with the LP2475w, but I have done so with an LP3065 and the results were fantastic.
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Keith Pratt on Mar 10, 2009 at 12:11:54 am
Greg,
I read this thread in full yesterday and think I found the found a few white papers on the HP website, which should be useful. And the FCP/Color one sounds just what I'm looking for.
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Greg Staten on Mar 12, 2009 at 8:08:04 pm
Hi everyone. The white paper, "Using the DreamColor LP2480zx monitor in Professional Video Applications," has just been released and I emailed it to (I hope) everyone that asked for it and provided me with an email address. If you haven't received this document in email by now and you would like a copy, please provide me with your email address and I'll send it along to you.
This white paper specifically focuses on using the monitor with HD-SDI/SDI video sources and provides techniques and approaches to feeding these sources to the monitor via an HD-SDI to HDMI converter.
I have two Mac-specific white papers in the works, including one dealing specifically with Color. My goal is to release them all before NAB.
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Tomas Hasa on Mar 13, 2009 at 7:45:30 pm
Hi Greg,
I need your advice again please. There is Gamma 2.4 in the Factory Default for sRGB color space. Should I calibrate with the same gamma or with more common value 2.2? Because with gamma 2.4 I can see all grey levels in this test of black point (www.drycreekphoto.com/Learn/Calibration/monitor_black.htm) in MSIE. After calibration with gamma 2.2 I can see only 7th square and further. I have Windows XP and I am not sure if gamma 2.4 is ok for this OS. What do you suggest: 2.2 or 2.4?
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Greg Staten on Mar 13, 2009 at 8:41:14 pm
Hi Tomas.
That's a correct response as the sRGB gamma isn't a pure curve, but a more complex mathematical function. The factory calibration software can represent that as a value of 2.4.
I'd leave it as it is unless you have a calibration kit.
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Tomas Hasa on Mar 13, 2009 at 8:54:25 pm
Hi Greg,
thanks for your very quick response. I have a DreamColor calibration kit of cource. I just don't know what choice is better - to set gamma 2.2 or 2.4 in calibration parameters? Almost everywhere is written "Windows XP? Use gamma 2.2 ..." and therefore I hesitate to set gamma 2.4.
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Greg Staten on Mar 13, 2009 at 8:58:51 pm
Since you have the APS, why don't you try the following. Leave the factory calibrated sRGB color space alone and use the "User 7" color space to create a new sRGB 2.2 gamma calibration. Be sure to enter the correct color and white primaries (which you can copy from the sRGB preset). Then you can switch between them and compare the results to find which one you prefer.
Regarding the 2.2 gamma. Certainly that's the recommended gamma for Windows XP, but there's no reason you can't use another if you prefer. The key is to make sure you match what your target is. For example, after the initial release we tweaked the factory calibration for Rec.709 to raise the gamma slightly from the standard 2.2. The reason we did this is that we placed the monitor side by side with Sony BVM tube monitors and worked to match the actual response of the monitor. That resulted in a slightly higher gamma than 2.2.
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Tomas Hasa on Mar 13, 2009 at 10:02:23 pm
Hi Greg,
it's very strange (at least for me). I've made some tests with sRGB color space. Primaries not changed, brightness 80cd/m2, WhitePoint D65.
sRGB with factory calibration (gamma 2.4) - I can distinguish step 2 on the web page mentioned before.
sRGB with my calibration (gamma 2.4) - I can distinguish step 9.
sRGB with my calibration (gamma 2.2) - I can distinguish step 7.
Is it normal or am I doing something wrong?
Thank you
Tomas
PeM
Perhaps it could be easier to you to write some "whitepaper" about APS for dummies like me :)
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Curran Giddens on Mar 15, 2009 at 10:06:57 pm
Greg, I am definitely interested in any and all white papers you have available. As a mac user (I use XP Pro with Bootcamp only when necessary), your white paper on Color sounds very interesting. I was hoping to be able to connect my Mac Pro and MacBook Pro to my DreamColor via DisplayPort or at least HDMI. Unfortunately, there are no adapters from mini-DisplayPort to DisplayPort or even HDMI. I guess I will have to go with the HDSDI to HDMI converter for now. Please send me your white paper. curran@solarsystemstudio.com
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Nikolai Pigarev on Jun 20, 2009 at 6:22:30 pm
PLEASE!!! have spend the last few hours trying to upgrade the firmware, but all i get is the erro message: This updater only updates monitors conencted via USB. Are you sure your monitor is connected. YES I AM!!! but nothing happens!! The monitor is connected via DVI running WIN XP PRO under bootcamp
Dreamcolor in FCP by Geoff Schaaf on Aug 14, 2009 at 12:01:22 am
Hi Greg, I just purchased a Dreamcolor and a Blackmagic Decklink Extreme card for my MacPro 8 core. However, I don't seem to be able to access the color gamut remapping utility on the monitor. It is greyed out and permanantely stuck on "all." I have selected the "use 1080P, not 1080PfS" box in system utilities, but this does not change anything. I'm connected to the monitor through the Decklinks's HDMI connector. Thoughts?
Re: Dreamcolor in FCP by Geoff Schaaf on Aug 16, 2009 at 2:51:40 am
Hi Trevor,
Thanks for the response. I switched the audio/video settings to Blackmagic HDTV 1080P 23.976 RGB (1920x1080). I still find that the color gamut remapping is disabled on the monitor. Is there another control or setting I'm missing?
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Gerald Skrocki on May 15, 2009 at 6:01:52 pm
Having read the whitepaper entitled Using the HP DreamColor LP2480zx Display with Apple Mac Systems, I take issue with the statement: If you have multiple displays attached to your Macintosh, the color space assigned to the primary display will be used to color manage all attached displays. (The primary display is defined as the one that has the menu bar assigned to it.)
If your system employs a dual link DVI video card it is capable of utilizing two separate icc profiles, one for each monitor.
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Greg Staten on May 15, 2009 at 6:55:18 pm
Hi Gerald.
This behavior was based on my tests with two different Mac systems. I observed this behavior on a Mac Pro with a GeForce 7300 GT graphics card and with a unibody MacBook Pro. (Both of these systems support dual-link connections.)
After noticing the behavior using standard display ICC profiles, I tested and verified it using a specially modified ICC profile that rotates the RGB primaries and results in an obviously-affected image in any color-managed application. I observed that if I applied this profile to the primary display then color-managed applications running on either display showed the primary rotation. I then applied it only to the second display and observed that it was not applied to that display (or, naturally, the other display).
I wrote to my contacts at Apple to verify this behavior and was told that it was possible that this was a bug.
Since posting the current version of the white paper, I have been doing further research and am investigating whether this may well be an NVIDIA graphics chipset limitation rather than a MacOS limitation. This exact same behavior happens on Windows when driving two displays off the same NVIDIA card and I confirmed a few days ago with NVIDIA that this is a known limitation. I have asked whether this is a limitation of their hardware or in Windows, but have not heard back. If it is a graphics chipset limitation (and I'm not implying that it is at this point) then it is certainly logical that this limitation may carry over to the Mac.
I've installed two graphics cards in my Windows workstation and connected one display to each card and I was able to apply an ICM (ICC) profile to each display and it was properly applied. I have not yet done this test on my MacPro, primarily because I don't have other Apple-blessed graphics cards handy.
It is entirely possible that this is not a MacOS limitation and I will gladly update the white paper to state such. Could you tell me about your configuration? What graphics card are you using on which system? Also, what displays do you have attached?
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Gerald Skrocki on May 17, 2009 at 12:00:51 am
Greg,
Thanks for the quick response. I am running a MacPro with 2 dual core Xeon processors, 12 gigs of ram and an ATI RADEON X1900XT video card with 512 vram. My secondary monitor is a 20" Wacom Cintiq (20WSX). I have never had a problem with the dual calibration. Each is retained by OSX and applied to the appropriate monitor. The HP Advanced Profiling Solution identifies both monitor and calibrates each individually.
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Gerald Skrocki on Jun 4, 2009 at 2:56:12 pm
DreamColor Advanced Profiling Solution software for Mac is on the CD that is shipped with the device.
Release Notes for HP DreamColor LCD Monitor Profiling Solution Version 1.0.2
In this document:
1. System Requirements
2. Installation
3. Known Issues
1. System Requirements
* Apple Mac OS-X 10.4 or 10.5
* 1 GB Ram
* Mac G5 or Intel-based Mac
* 2 GB of available disk space
* Powered USB Port
* HP DreamColor LP2480zx Professional LCD Monitor or standard HP LCD monitor with a resolution of 1024x768 pixels or higher
* Internet connection required for automatic software downloads and update
2. Installation
To install the HP DreamColor LCD Monitor Profiling Solution, double click on the HP DreamColor LCD Monitor Profiling Solution Install package and follow the onscreen instructions.
3. Known Issues
* During the monitor patch measurement procedure in the Profiling application, if the device is not onscreen or if it should fall from
the screen, the application may not detect that the device is not reading the correct color values. Should this situation occur, click the cancel button if available and restart the procedure.
* After performing a Software Update from within the HP DreamColor LCD Monitor Profiling Software, you may need to restart the application for the changes to take effect.
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Gerald Skrocki on Aug 28, 2009 at 11:31:54 pm
As an update to my previous response, I installed Snow Leopard OSX 10.6 today and the HP Advanced Profiling Solution software is operational but the system no longer recognizes the puck. I have submitted tickets to both HP and Xrite to try and get an updated driver. Again, Mac support is lacking from both of these companies.
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by walter biscardi on Aug 29, 2009 at 12:19:54 am
Did you by any chance check with those companies BEFORE updating?
Even Mac centric companies like AJA and Maxx Digital are not ready for Snow Leopard yet. Gonna be at least two to three weeks before I even think about installing 10.6 on any of our editing systems as I'm waiting for all my software and hardware manufacturers to get their drivers ready.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author.
Credits include multiple Emmy, Telly, Aurora and Peabody Awards.
Owner, Biscardi Creative Media featuring HD Post Biscardi Creative Media
Creative Cow Forum Host:
Apple Final Cut Pro, Apple Motion, Apple Color, AJA Kona, Business & Marketing, Maxx Digital.
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by walter biscardi on Aug 29, 2009 at 2:21:28 am
I'm just asking if you checked HP's website before you did the upgrade. A lot of answers would be found right there in the Support page. The time to ask for the new driver is not after you do the upgrade, it's before you attempt to do the upgrade.
That's the point I was making in response to your comment: Again, Mac support is lacking from both of these companies.
Expecting a company to support you just because you decided to go ahead of them doesn't do anything to help your situation either.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author.
Credits include multiple Emmy, Telly, Aurora and Peabody Awards.
Owner, Biscardi Creative Media featuring HD Post Biscardi Creative Media
Creative Cow Forum Host:
Apple Final Cut Pro, Apple Motion, Apple Color, AJA Kona, Business & Marketing, Maxx Digital.
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Gerald Skrocki on Aug 29, 2009 at 3:47:39 am
HP support is severely lacking. I talked to a total of 5 people from HP support each asking me the same series of questions,none of whom had any answers other than to pass me off to yet another non English speaking "support" person. The HP DreamColor Advanced Profiling Solution as well as the DreamColor Monitor are especially difficult to get tech support information about. It is not that I didn't try. You can only spell your name and repeat serial and model numbers so many times before sever frustration sets in. Now let me put you on hold, you may hear a series of beeps or music or complete silence before your call is connected, thank your for contacting HP support!!!!
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Gerald Skrocki on Sep 5, 2009 at 6:31:25 pm
I have solved my problem with the HP DreamColor Advanced Profiling Solution software (written by Xrite) and Snow Leopard. I completely uninstalled the software including the OBIWAN Driver for the Xrite puck that loaded on startup. I also deleted the associated plist file (com.xrite.ninjad.plist) located in User/Library/Launch Agents.
A reboot after the software uninstall and then a reinstall of the software seems to have corrected the problem.
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Geoff Schaaf on Aug 10, 2009 at 9:15:04 pm
I just received my HP LP 2480zx monitor. I have it connected to my Mac Pro via the composite video cables.
When I try to turn on the auto update function in the management menu, the option is greyed out and won't allow me to access it. Ideas?
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Craig Harris on Sep 15, 2009 at 10:04:43 pm
Is there a driver for MAC'S that will allow the computer to recognize the HP Dreamcolor by USB? Everytime I go to calibrate with the XRite software, it tells me to plug the display into the computer via USB... the only thing is that the display is already plugged in.
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Greg Staten on Sep 16, 2009 at 1:39:58 pm
Hi Craig.
It sounds like you have connected the display to your Mac using one of the USB ports on the right side of the display. Those are convenience peripheral ports. The correct port to connect the display to the computer is located on the bottom of the display, just to the right of the power cord. It has a USB Type B (square-ish) connector, much like a printer would have.
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Joseph Lam on May 8, 2009 at 3:27:20 pm
I'm seriously considering this HP LP2480zx and the EIZO CG242W. The hardware spec of the HP does seem to be better (wider gamut, LED backlight, 10bit input) but as someone has mentioned it lacks support for non-HP supplied calibrator devices. I'm using X-rite ColorMunki which is supported by Eizo's very well built ColorNavigator software.
Can anyone from HP give some indication of what the plan is regarding this monitor's calibration software and device support?
Another thing that slightly concerns me is the abundance of refurbished LP2480zx on the market selling at steep discount (like 40% off), which I'm worried may be caused by high return rate of the product? How good is the quality of the refurbished LP2480zx compared to brand new ones?
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Andrew Huebscher on May 12, 2009 at 5:06:20 pm
Greg,
Thank you for your continued help on this subject.
Following NAB '09, there appear to be some new HDSDI to HDMI converters that support the 1.3 spec of deep color (10-bit).
1. Can you confirm that the DreamColor will show 10 bits when fed an HDMI signal?
2. There are two specific format converters. Gefen's, which is only an announcement on their news page at this point (http://www.gefen.com/kvm/news/view-news-item.jsp?news_item_id=171) and Aja's (http://www.aja.com/products/converters/converters-hd-hi53g.php). Which of these are recommended for sending an HDSDI signal into the DreamColor?
Thanks in advance,
Andrew Huebscher
Los Angeles, CA
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Leigh Christopher on May 22, 2009 at 5:40:07 am
Greg,
I'm seriously considering purchasing the HP Dreamcolor for an upcoming project. The project will be strictly using 1080p material so I'm not too concernced about the limitations with interlaced material. I've read the white papers and they explain a lot. Fantastic job writing those up.
I will actually be using Premiere CS4 on a PC for most of this project. I'd post this in the premiere forum but these questions are about the dreamcolor monitor specifically and this seems to be the correct thread for that...
Right now, there seem like three possibilities.
Possible Solution #1:
Blackmagic Decklink HD Extreme 3 -> Aja Hi5-3G or Gefen EXT-HDSDI-2-HDMIS Converter -> HP Dreamcolor
The new Aja Hi5-3G converter sounds like it may work as well as the Gefen:
AJA info: "The Hi5-3G converts 3G-SDI, dual or single link HD-SDI, or SD-SDI to HDMI v1.3a for driving HDMI monitors. HDMI v1.3a capability at 30 bits per pixel allows full support of the latest 10 bit monitors." It also states in the specs it outputs RGB or YUV and it outputs 1080p50/60. Markertek also lists the Aja Hi5-3G for about half the price of the Gefen (when it eventually ships). I guess it would be nice to have confirmation this product works once HP has tested it. Also an update to the white paper "Using the HP DreamColor LP2480zxMonitor for Professional Video Applications" on how to set up the new device would help.
This solution seems like it definately would work with Adobe CS4 Premiere/After Effects/and Photoshop since the Decklink supports all of the programs with 10bit color through the HDSDI. Once the converter is set properly and the Dreamcolor is set to Rec 709, theoretically, the color should be accurate. This would be a day to day working setup - would it also be reasonably good enough to grade color for a low-budget independent production?
Possible Solution #2:
AJA Xena LHi. This newly introduced NAB 2009 card outputs "HDMI v1.3a w/Deep Color at 30 bits per pixel input/output". The question is if this output is in RGB or YUV like the Decklink HDMI out. Also, is it PsF or Progressive? Can someone at AJA or HP confirm if this HDMI out sends 10bit color properly to the Dreamcolor with Dreamcolor Engine intact?
Possible Solution #3:
Simply use a normal graphics card DVI out to the Dreamcolor set to Rec709. Set the monitor profile to a Rec709 profile. Then use fullscreen preview in Premiere CS4 to the dreamcolor monitor. If the Dreamcolor has a very accurate Rec709 mode then this should give very accurate colors. The only thing one loses is the 10bit which means there will be banding in large smooth gradiants. I can live with the banding if the colors are accurate. Would this be as color accurate as using the Decklink Extreme 3 and the HDSDI-HDMI Converter?
There are a lot less odd conversions with this process. Using the decklink route seems a bit obtuse when considering:
The video file in memory is RGB -> Converted to YUV in the decklink -> Convertered to RGB with Gefen/Aja -> Dreamcolor Displays RGB
With a simple DVI connection, it just stays RGB the whole way... Theoretically, the final output should be identical going both routes. The only reason I could see a difference in output is the 16-235 issue. It would be nice if this worked as its the least expensive.
"Currently Premiere Pro does not output 10bit color to its displays. You get 10 bit color from if you are using an SDI I/O card, like AJA Xena or BMD Decklink, but the NVIDIA solution is a display card, even the SDI version. This limitation is totally a software one and not a hardware one, which means that we could see this functionality added in a future software update."
So basically the Dreamcolor as a Preview monitor with Premier/AE/photoshop etc would only be 8bit anyways. I don't see the advantage of using the 10bit displayport with the fancy Nvidia card until Adobe supports 10bit with Full Screen previews. So are there ANY programs which support 10bit color out of the displayport into the Dreamcolor??
Another idea is that AE and Photoshop are Color Managed. So one could just use the Dreamcolor in Full mode and use color management to select the desired workspace color (like Rec709) in Photoshop/AE (doesn't work with Premiere because its not color managed). This Should be another way of achieving identical results. And why aren't FCP and Premiere and the operating systems truly color managed?? Wouldn't that ultimately solve all of these problems??? !!!
So... Is it possible to create a truly accurate reference color setup for day to day editing with the Dreamcolor? Use all 1080P Rec709 source material and Premier Fullscreen Preview on the Dreamcolor with a Rec 709 Color Space setting and Rec 709 Monitor Profile. Is this good enough for Color Grading with the final output going to Blu-Ray or do I need to do option # 1 Decklink or #2 AJA Xena LHi.
Thanks for any info. I've been trying to figure this out for a long time...
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Trevor Cable on Jun 8, 2009 at 5:49:42 pm
Regarding the AJA Hi5 3G
Has anyone tried this yet with the Dreamcolor? I don't know if it even it is shipping yet. I hope this does work because I'd prefer not spending the $1200 on the Gefen product. Thanks.
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Leigh Christopher on May 22, 2009 at 9:20:43 pm
Earlier in the thread Greg Staten from HP released a series of white papers about the Dreamcolor monitor. I tried linking to the page on HP with the white papers but Creative Cow interpets the link incorrectly...
Without giving out the link directly, the best way to get to the white papers is:
Go to:
1. Go to http://www.hp.com 2. Search for "dreamcolor" in the upper right search box, click on the first link.
3. On the HP Dreamcolor product page, in the grey box on the Right Side, click on "HP Support & Drivers"
4. On the Support Page in the bottom section "Resources for HP DreamColor..." Select Manuals
5. The Bottom of the manuals page has 5 white papers which have tons of great info about this monitor. Hopefully more will show up.
The most useful white paper for broadcast methodology seems to be the one titled:
"Using the HP DreamColor LP2480zx Monitor for Professional Video Applications"
On another note, I spoke with AJA today and the representative said they actually had the Xena LHi hooked up to Dreamcolor monitors at NAB. So I guess this solution works! He said they will be shipping the card about two weeks from now. I'm probably going to go with the AJA Xena LHi and the Dreamcolor monitor.
It would be great to get a bit more feedback from either AJA or HP about if this method really gives accurate colors for Rec 709 out of Premiere CS4 with the full 10bit color.
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Frederic Cudeiro on Aug 5, 2009 at 7:52:14 pm
Hi,
I recently bought a secondhand HP DreamColor LP2480zx (rev. GHG001, manufactured in July 2008 (China), ~300H old backlight).
This unit suffered from "blotchiness", i.e. random color temperature variations accross the display.
I measured a difference of 1000K(!) between the top-left and the bottom-left.
I got it replaced by HP today - great support service -, but the replacement unit still has an uniformity issue.
This time, "blotchiness" is minor, but there is a green to red gradient accross the display:
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/1585/lp2480zxcolorshift.jpg Typical issue on the HP LP2475W; I never thought the HP LP2480zx could be concerned...
This unit is from the same revision (GHG001).
So, is there any known issue with this revision?
Is it possible to get a brand new monitor (or, at least, a more recent revision) from the HP support service?
To top it all off, I have two dead sub-pixels (min. for warranty is three). Hopefully, it's nothing compared with the color temperature uniformity issue.
Re: Setting up HP DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for work in Color by Franco Bogino on Sep 21, 2009 at 11:34:50 am
Hi All.
Anyone reckon I'll be able to make good use of this monitor on an older system? I'm using Color on a G4 MDD 1.42 Dual, running Tiger and Color 1.0.5.
I've found a good price on a second hand model. Anything I should be wary of...eg. older models having known problems.
For now I'll be grading Pal SD footage for Music Videos, promos and some short films.
Also, for now I'd like to be able to monitor via DVI using the image generated within the Color software (ie. not using the external monitor function). Will I able to get a reliable image or is the only way to use the HP Colorspace as an external monitor connected via composite or the like?
Cheers
Franco
London based Avid/ FCP offline editor.
FCP Online.
