Best Hardware for Using Color - Non Broadcast
by Mike Petty
on
Aug 12, 2008 at 7:31:11 pm
I am having a lot of fun learning and using Color. Now, I am getting ready for a major hardware upgrade and though I'd seek the forum's advice on what stuff to get.
One caveat though...I do not do any production for broadcast. I produced 500+ national tv spots in my first career...and when I created my little production company to start my second career I vowed to stay away from broadcast.
I do mostly online/iPod delivered corporate promotion and training videos, historical films for museums, etc. The closest my work will ever come to a TV is on DVD at a trade show.
That notwithstanding, I do want the footage to look as good as possible to the point of even dialing in some of the great effects that can be done in Color now and again for the right situation. I have spun around the forums a bit and see that a broadcast quality grading monitor is a consensus imperative.
Great. I understand that. But, based on what I do...Do I really need to make that investment? I can...but is it essential for what I do? I am going to get whatever the top end (or close to it) Mac Pro and throw in the optimal RAM. I have a 23" Cinema Display that is fine for me size wise.
The question is...what else should I get to optimize using Color? Should I get another 23" and gang it with the first on an NVIDEA or ATI card. When it comes to external monitoring should I get a card (AJA...Blackmagic) for external monitoring. Can I use a good NTSC HiDef monitor out of a HDMI in/out card (like an Intensity card) or do I need to go to an Extreme card with some other type of monitoring. This is all relatively new for me...I am not even sure I am using the right terms.
So, this may seem an elementary context, but there are a lot of opinions out there and I wanted to ask for hardware recommendations specifically in the non broadcast use of Color.
Re: Best Hardware for Using Color - Non Broadcast by Joseph Owens on Aug 12, 2008 at 10:26:43 pm
Quality does not really differentiate between whether it goes through a transmitter to someone's house (as it is shortly to cease doing, anyway). Frankly, Digital Cinema is non-broadcast, and I wouldn't count it as lower quality -- on the contrary... MUCH MUCH higher.
Re: Best Hardware for Using Color - Non Broadcast by Mike Petty on Aug 12, 2008 at 11:22:14 pm
I see right off the bat I get dinged for not aspiring to excellence...and get a face full of that "good enough is not good enough" BS I used to get from ad agencies I've hired over the years.
(I've still got a drawer full of those t-shirts from Chiat/Day)
OK..thanks...your point is noted. I'm not making independent films...or shooting for the Discovery Channel or ABC or local channel 7. I am dialing out promo and training films that I want to look as good as possible.
I have to write the check for equipment pal...so yeah, sometimes good enough is good enough. My question and need for advice still stands.
Re: Best Hardware for Using Color - Non Broadcast by walter biscardi on Aug 13, 2008 at 12:07:50 am
[Mike Petty]"I have to write the check for equipment pal...so yeah, sometimes good enough is good enough. My question and need for advice still stands. "
See, you're going to get dinged for that too. I've been writing all the checks for my company since 2001, but "good enough" is not good enough for us. Started working in my bedroom and now have three full broadcast HD suites cutting all manner broadcast, corporate and independent projects. I save money where I can, but for pro equipment, I spend what I need to get the job done properly.
Here's the way I look at it. If you're getting paid to do this professionally, then you need professional equipment. If you're just doing this as a hobby, then you can go down to Best Buy and just pick up a nice quality monitor. This is one thing that really sets people apart and quite honestly is one way that I pick freelancers who will work with me if I need to outsource. If you're not willing to invest in proper equipment, then why should I invest my money in your services?
A good low cost monitor is the Panasonic 1700W. A better LCD monitor is the TV Logic series as these handle both HD and SD incredibly well. Even cheaper is a Panasonic Pro plasma screen, though they are not good for SD material.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.
Re: Best Hardware for Using Color - Non Broadcast by Andrew Kimery on Aug 13, 2008 at 1:19:35 am
Mike,
Check out the Matrox MXO. Couple that w/a 23" Apple Cinema Display and you probably have the best bang-for-the-buck monitoring solution. Shane Ross, a forum leader in the FCP section, was able to almost match the colors he was getting on his Sony HD CRT b'cast monitor.
As far as 'good enough' goes there's 'good enough given my budget and time constraints' and there's 'good enough given that I really don't give a crap.' Just because someone has to compromise on their gear due to budget doesn't mean they compromise on their work ethic. If money was no object I'm sure we'd all have the absolute best hardware, software, facilities and staff money could buy, but it is so we don't.
Re: Best Hardware for Using Color - Non Broadcast by walter biscardi on Aug 13, 2008 at 1:40:48 am
[Andrew Kimery]"Check out the Matrox MXO. Couple that w/a 23" Apple Cinema Display and you probably have the best bang-for-the-buck monitoring solution. Shane Ross, a forum leader in the FCP section, was able to almost match the colors he was getting on his Sony HD CRT b'cast monitor. "
Does that work properly with Color yet? It didn't when Color first came out.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.
Re: Best Hardware for Using Color - Non Broadcast by Mike Petty on Aug 13, 2008 at 1:53:01 am
Andrew,
Great input. I'll check into it.
I fall into the limited budget...never compromise on creativity or commitment to telling my clients' stories. They are the only people who I am concerned about...and they don't seem too concerned I don't have the "right" hardware.
Re: Best Hardware for Using Color - Non Broadcast by Mike Petty on Aug 13, 2008 at 1:40:31 am
Lighten up there, Walter.
I have a simple problem I want to solve as cost effectively as possible.
All I'm trying to do is figure out the how to go about this whole hardware thing to use the software without deficit spending. I'm sure you had capitol expense budgets in your bedroom editing suite days, right?
I've seen your other posts and know your affinity for these TV Logic Monitors. They appear to be in the 5-6 grand range...can't seem to find a price. The Panasonic may be a better ROI for me...now. Thanks for the input. I'm still curious about thoughts on optimal cards and any other components one might need to get the job done under the conditions that exist.
If you'd care to opine great..If not...save the "run down to Best Buy" cracks for the rubes and try not to talk down to those whose credentials and chops you do not know. Careful now.
Re: Best Hardware for Using Color - Non Broadcast by walter biscardi on Aug 13, 2008 at 1:53:28 am
[Mike Petty]" I'm still curious about thoughts on optimal cards and any other components one might need to get the job done under the conditions that exist. "
The best video cards are the AJA Konas. If you don't want to spend the money, go with BMD, but your mileage may vary. I tried them in the past and would not put them in my shop.
The MXO, if it works, could be an alternative, but I don't use them so I have no idea.
[Mike Petty]"I'm sure you had capitol expense budgets in your bedroom editing suite days, right? "
Yep, still do and with all that spending we do, our company is debt free even with all the gear we have. And that's starting over $80,000 in the hole in 2001 with zero equipment. So I know all about spending my own money, getting "what's good enough" for some equipment, and getting "the best for my needs and budget."
You know your budget you spend your money as you see fit. You asked our opinion for the best hardware, I'm just answering. Some of the best equipped facilities I've ever seen are non-broadcast.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.
Re: Best Hardware for Using Color - Non Broadcast by paul Provost on Aug 13, 2008 at 3:57:51 am
Having a video card (aja or decklink) is a great thing for proper monitoring. the decklink extreme hd is a hell of a bargain at less than a grand AND has hdmi out which you could connect to a Panasonic TH-50PF10UK 50" plasma. and since you are not grading for broadcast or film out I think it would be quite good for you since your corporate stuff will likely be shown on this same screen anyway. (we have one for client monitor and it looks pretty damn good for the money...even in SD). plus this would give you a pro capture card in case you ever have to bring in a playback deck. we use both aja and decklink and the aja is definitely the finer of the two but both wok.
Re: Best Hardware for Using Color - Non Broadcast by Jason Porthouse on Aug 14, 2008 at 10:33:57 am
Mike,
I kinda straddle both worlds with this - I'm a broadcast-based editor but I do other, 'non broadcast' stuff too. The importance with any system is consistency IMHO, and how well you know your kit. I think having a separate monitor is always good on a system, if only to achieve that consistency. So with that in mind, and depending on the kit you have and your budget, I'd look for a second hand SD card - maybe a Kona or Decklink - and a good secondhand monitor. You could pick up a JVCTMH-150CGU for $450 odd at B&H new, and that would be fine for getting a 'reference' for your grading and editing. The Decklink is $280 from same - I think it would be 700 bucks well spent, and you may well find that you can do cheaper buying S/H. I don't know if Intensity would work with Color but that may be an option as well.
HTH
Jason
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