Help with 960x720 format DVCProHD footage in Color
by Paul Nordin
on
Jun 19, 2008 at 6:31:25 pm
I've graded a feature in Color using the following workflow:
1. export the 960x720 DVCProHD to Color
2. Grade
3. return graded footage as 1280x720 ProResHQ
The editor is claiming that there is a loss of quality in baking in the square pixels in the Color render step, and I should keep it the native rectangular native DVCPro format's pixels dimension (resulting in a 960x720 resolution). He feels I should re-render the project using the native 960x720 format but still using ProRes HQ.
My first problem is it's going to be a fair amount of work to re-render the project along with the FCP tweaks that I did on the return trip. A drag, but I'm willing to do it if it's true that I lost quality in using Color to shift the pixel dimensions from 960x720 oblong to 1280x720 square.
My second problem is I don't see that format listed (960x720) in the render settings for Color. Should I use the custom settings and manually set the dimensions? Will that keep the pixel dimension at the DVCProHD native?
Thanks for any help here, as I'm getting up against my knowledge, and a deadline at the same time.
Cheers,
Paul Nordin, DP
_______________________
El Mundo Bueno Studios
Film * Audio
www.EMBstudios.com
Emeryville, CA
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Re: Help with 960x720 format DVCProHD footage in Color by Joseph Owens on Jun 20, 2008 at 3:23:07 am
The short of it is that nothing is happening in COLOR that won't happen in FCP getting a 16X9 image from a 960x720 box.
Avoid recompressing to DVCProHD if you can, especially the anamorphic kind. 1280 wouldn't be such a big deal, except for the 4:1:1 issues, if you were trying to slip in a bit of chroma smoothing, which works, AND you get to keep it when you go out in ProRes422HQ. You don't if you go back to DVCProHD.
Sounds like someone just wants to keep it all for themselves, or some other "back agenda". Sad, but hardly a news flash.
Re: Help with 960x720 format DVCProHD footage in Color by walter biscardi on Jun 20, 2008 at 1:16:06 pm
[Paul Nordin]"The editor is claiming that there is a loss of quality in baking in the square pixels in the Color render step, and I should keep it the native rectangular native DVCPro format's pixels dimension (resulting in a 960x720 resolution). He feels I should re-render the project using the native 960x720 format but still using ProRes HQ."
You can't in Color, color only renders in full raster sizes, even if you stay in the DVCPro HD codec, which we do here. What you end up with is a 1280x720 DVCPro HD file.
What I have found is that the renders are cleaner staying in DVCPro HD all the way around instead of rendering to ProRes in Color. I know others on here like that workflow, but it does not work for us. We've delivered all our network HD episodes in DVCPro HD so far (about 80+ and counting) and we've received nothing but praise for the quality of our work.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.
Re: Help with 960x720 format DVCProHD footage in Color by Stuart Ferreyra on Jun 21, 2008 at 4:35:01 pm
I completely agree.
Unless the recompression has been done for whatever reason before going to Color I would recommend staying in DVCPro HD format. I have done quality comparisons before / after color correction with DVCPro HD and I have found none. I have isolated pieces of picture and scrutinize them in high end telecine monitors and can't see any render/compression issues.
Color does a fine job every time. For some of our TV projects we edit, color and master in DVCPro HD, then we upconvert 720p to HDCam 1080i on-the-fly with our Kona 3 cards and the networks have never sent anything back. Not even PBS (and they are one of the pickiest).
Re: Help with 960x720 format DVCProHD footage in Color by walter biscardi on Jun 21, 2008 at 4:41:34 pm
[Stuart Ferreyra]"Color does a fine job every time. For some of our TV projects we edit, color and master in DVCPro HD, then we upconvert 720p to HDCam 1080i on-the-fly with our Kona 3 cards and the networks have never sent anything back. Not even PBS (and they are one of the pickiest)."
That's pretty much been our workflow from day one with DVCPro HD. PBS, Food Network and even AlJazeera International in Doha, Qatar have all passed our shows with flying colors.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.
Re: Help with 960x720 format DVCProHD footage in Color by ido karilla on Jul 13, 2008 at 6:43:14 pm
I recivied a movie to grade today. It was shot 720 24p to firestore recording QT's. Sadly it was edited on a 59.94 timeline. The movie has a 2:3 repeated frames pattern that was ignored by the editor.
If I copy the sequence to a 24fps time line the repeated frames are gone and some one frame gaps occur.
I adjusted some of the cuts and sent them to color to check the workflow. I had to add a frame on some of the shots before sending to color to make it read the xml right.
Sadly again if I render in color ( with out doing any changes to the image) and import the rendered file to the sequence in FCP 6.0.3 I get a blury image.
