TV Logic Grade Monitor
by Christian Betong
on
Sep 12, 2007 at 9:06:33 am
Just came back from IBC, I had a look around for a lcd grade monitor. What I found was that the sony was way overpriced, Vutrix seemed a bit better and a lot cheaper. Still expensive but not ridiculous as the sony. On the midrange monitors I compared JVC, Panasonic and TV Logic. To my eyes the TV logic came out best. Does anyone have any experience with this company and their monitors? They seem to be very serious, active members SMTP and very competent.
this is the models i am talking about.
Panasonic BT-LH2600W
TVLogic LVM-240W
JVC DT-V24L1D
Sony BVM-L230
VUTRIX 23"
Re: TV Logic Grade Monitor by walter biscardi on Sep 12, 2007 at 9:23:13 am
Panasonic is the best I have seen in their price range.
eCinema is the best LCD period I've seen, though their true grading monitor is around $24,000 US.
JVC I've never been a fan of and of course you called Sony out correctly for being overpriced. Don't forget it says "SONY" on it so you have to pay more for the privilege of those four letters on the front. :-)
[Christian Betong]"To my eyes the TV logic came out best. Does anyone have any experience with this company and their monitors? They seem to be very serious, active members SMTP and very competent."
Have never heard of TV Logic and would certainly be interested in hearing more if anyone else saw them at the show. Dual Link HD on a 17" display is certainly intriguing and that would set them above the Panasonic right there. Also the 24" displays true 1080 resolution.
I'm assuming you saw a very good representation of Black to White on this without the blacks appearing overly crushed or overly "grey?"
I found that two of the US Resellers are right here in Atlanta and I've inquired on a demo model as I would love to put it up against my Sony CRT HD monitor to see how they compare.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Broadcast and independent productions.
All Things Apple Podcast! http://cowcast.creativecow.net/all_things_apple/index.html
Re: TV Logic Grade Monitor by Floh on Sep 12, 2007 at 9:32:51 am
[walter biscardi]"eCinema is the best LCD period I've seen, though their true grading monitor is around $24,000 US. "
I have to admit I am spoiled now. I saw the new SONY BVM 24" LCD display at IBC, and it definitely put the eCinema on #2. They had a showroom with 3 displays; 2 of the new 24" LCDs and a 24" CRT BVM Class1 in the middle between them. You could not see a difference, neither in color, contrast or motion. They even can display interlaced video correctly. Unfortunately they are said to be ~21.000
Re: TV Logic Grade Monitor by walter biscardi on Sep 12, 2007 at 9:40:31 am
[Floh]"They had a showroom with 3 displays; 2 of the new 24" LCDs and a 24" CRT BVM Class1 in the middle between them."
They had the identical setup here at NAB in April. Never saw it, but those who did, said the same thing as you, could not tell which was which.
I just don't trust Sony any longer. Their Luma series has been a joke and they are marketing them as a "true CRT replacement." I'm not sure I'll use any of their displays when we replace our current PVM series.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Broadcast and independent productions.
All Things Apple Podcast! http://cowcast.creativecow.net/all_things_apple/index.html
Re: TV Logic Grade Monitor by Floh on Sep 12, 2007 at 9:44:20 am
[walter biscardi]"Their Luma series has been a joke and they are marketing them as a "true CRT replacement." I'm not sure I'll use any of their displays when we replace our current PVM series."
That really was a joke. They even had a Luma next to one of the new monitors displaying the same images, and I really was not sure what they wanted to show with this comparison. Like, how crappy the Luma series is? And it definitely was crappy...
Re: TV Logic Grade Monitor by walter biscardi on Sep 12, 2007 at 9:46:44 am
[Floh]"I really was not sure what they wanted to show with this comparison. Like, how crappy the Luma series is?"
Yeah, only Sony could come up with that idea. "You know all those suckers we convinced to purchase the Luma? Let's show them what a piece of crap they really bought!"
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Broadcast and independent productions.
All Things Apple Podcast! http://cowcast.creativecow.net/all_things_apple/index.html
Re: TV Logic Grade Monitor by Christian Betong on Sep 12, 2007 at 3:51:06 pm
I took this "darkroom" test. It was quite easy to pick out the lcd. Blacklevel was NOT on par with the crt, but color and motion was as good! Walter that sounds awesome! Would love to hear what your findings are, I only saw it with some random HD material. Looked good, but a side to side compare is what you need really, impossible to do here in Norway :(
Re: TV Logic Grade Monitor by Glenn Chan on Sep 12, 2007 at 11:36:27 pm
Have to agree with Christian... you can pick out the LCD. On bright scenes I couldn't tell the difference in black levels (CRTs will flare and their black level goes up on bright scenes). On dark scenes you can spot the difference.
The LCD is also slightly sharper... but you have to be standing close enough to spot this.
2- I'd be curious to why you put the eCinemasys #2. I assume you are talking about their DPX models, not the FX or DCM. I also assume that these were calibrated monitors (at NAB they were showing uncalibrated monitors) in a decent viewing environment.
Re: TV Logic Grade Monitor by Jean-Luc Gason on Sep 13, 2007 at 5:18:05 am
Well, I also took the dark room test and it only took 3 sec to spot the CRT, black level on the LCD was muddy and the white point was not the same as the CRT, although I concede that neither the LCD or CRT seemed to have a correct white point, LCD looked a bit too yellow to me, and CRT was definitely too cyan.
Also, the images displayed were carefully selected by the Sony marketing team : no real blurry gradient so you can't see banding appear on the LCD, short clips, moving quite fast, so you have almost no chance to catch the LCD limitations on that demo... I'll just say that color wise, they were not as bad as before. But I'm keeping my CRT BVM for now, no way I'm grading on those LCD's yet...
Re: TV Logic Grade Monitor by walter biscardi on Sep 13, 2007 at 4:15:15 pm
[Christian Betong]"Walter that sounds awesome! Would love to hear what your findings are, I only saw it with some random HD material. Looked good, but a side to side compare is what you need really, impossible to do here in Norway :("
Luckily one of our vendors does have two 24" models in stock here in Atlanta and they are fully willing to bring it over. Hopefully within the next two weeks and we'll do some hammering on it. I will definitely post a full report on this monitor, thanks so much for bringing it to our attention!
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Broadcast and independent productions.
All Things Apple Podcast! http://cowcast.creativecow.net/all_things_apple/index.html
Re: TV Logic Grade Monitor by xtrmn8ngangl on Nov 3, 2007 at 11:12:50 am
hallo, im looking to get a LCD reference Monitor...my price range is limited to 5000 euro( i think 6000 + dollars)...from what i iv read around the web and read here the Panasonic 26" is the way to go right? you wouldnt recommend the JVC 24" at around the same price despite native HD capabilities opposed to the panasonic limited resolution of 1366x768? i have never seen the panasonic 26 nor the JVC models, only the 17 panasonic and i was impressed...
Re: TV Logic Grade Monitor by xtrmn8ngangl on Nov 5, 2007 at 9:13:10 pm
Hallo, i have looked into the TV logic monitor and read you blog from 10/5/07. and it seems your are pretty happy with this monitor...could you possibly give a couple more details about the monitor...i have not found a lot of information on this monitor on the net aside from the TV logic site...i was wondering if the monitor displayed audio meters like the Panasonic and JVC or if there is any other bells and whistels that you may want to mention.
did you choose this monitor because it was the flat out better product? or someting else, you mentioned it suited you needs better...i was just curious, id like to buy a monitor in the next couple weeks and was sold on the Panasonic until i read this forum and your blog...
Re: TV Logic Grade Monitor by walter biscardi on Nov 5, 2007 at 9:19:54 pm
[xtrmn8ngangl]"did you choose this monitor because it was the flat out better product? or someting else, you mentioned it suited you needs better...i was just curious, id like to buy a monitor in the next couple weeks and was sold on the Panasonic until i read this forum and your blog..."
I have not purchased it yet, but am recommending it to anyone who is looking for a true color grading LCD monitor. We will have it back in the shop for another week hopefully by Friday.
This is flat out the best LCD Grading monitor I've seen for under $25,000. In fact it's flat out an incredible grading monitor period. The Panasonic is absolutely the best LCD in their price range. The TV Logic is better in color reproduction and definitely SD reproduction.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.
Re: TV Logic Grade Monitor by jugeras on Sep 13, 2007 at 2:55:37 pm
GREAT value.
we do simul playback on a bvm and on the lcd. even during client sessions. colors and refresh rate are decent. blacks are slightly shallow and whites cant go crt white but anything in between are quite faithful (at least what we see)
best price + performance
we use a 46' on fcp, 40' on smoke, our other offices uses 24' to monitor HD. autodetect signal helps me alot.
Re: TV Logic Grade Monitor by Christian Betong on Sep 13, 2007 at 8:24:18 pm
Do you have it running with their ND glass filter front? That really seem to push the black down there. Dunno what that does to the whites but I am guessing its easier to get used to slighty darker whites than a "milky" image.
Re: TV Logic Grade Monitor by jugeras on Sep 14, 2007 at 2:29:21 pm
nope no ND glass filter - its an option. we didnt get but saw a few models during broadcast asia - yep a bit milky - but we were viewing it at the exhibit floor which had strong white lights - cant really judge the full effect.
