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Panny pro vs. consumer?

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Charlie KosheffPanny pro vs. consumer?
by on Mar 29, 2011 at 12:08:23 pm

Is there any reason I can't buy a consumer model (with a tuner) instead of this one:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/686607-REG/Panasonic_TH_42PF20U_Full_...

I can't find a difference in critical specs. Can the consumer one be tweaked as the pro one can?



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Noah KadnerRe: Panny pro vs. consumer?
by on Mar 29, 2011 at 3:30:05 pm

Short answer- no, not if you care about accurate color in Color. Long answer- search through the many topics on this subject in this and other boards.

Noah

Unlock the secrets of 24p, HD and Final Cut Studio with Call Box Training. Featuring the Canon 5D Mark II and 7D.


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Charlie KosheffRe: Panny pro vs. consumer?
by on Mar 29, 2011 at 6:39:11 pm

Thanks Noah,
Yes I have cruised all of the other posts, and am really using it as a "as close as possible" client monitor for FCP. There are just so many models of the panny plasmas, it is ridiculous. Am going to go for a 42" 1080p, simple one without 3D or social media networking hookup.



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Noah KadnerRe: Panny pro vs. consumer?
by on Mar 30, 2011 at 3:14:02 am

Well it's your call-as a client, when I sit down in a color grading suite that has a consumer TV for a client monitor I walk right out the door. :) That said, perhaps a trip to a Best Buy or its local equivalent to find the best one for your budget.

Noah

Unlock the secrets of 24p, HD and Final Cut Studio with Call Box Training. Featuring the Canon 5D Mark II and 7D.


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Jeff GreenbergRe: Panny pro vs. consumer?
by on Mar 30, 2011 at 11:15:35 am

Not really. At the very least, the color temperature will be off - most consumer sets are around 7200 kelvin; bonus - the blacks and response times are off.

Could you use it? Sure. It will produce a picture. But can you be sure of it's consistency? nope.

Best,

Jeff G

Apple Master Trainer | Avid Cert. Instructor DS/MC | Adobe Cert. Instructor
------------
You should follow me (filmgeek) on twitter. I promise to be nice.
Come See me speak at NAB!
Compressor Essentials from Lynda.com
(older but still good) Marquee, Media Composer (3.5) and Basic/Advanced Color DVDs (1.0) from Vasst.com
Contact me through my Website


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Robbie CarmanRe: Panny pro vs. consumer?
by on Mar 30, 2011 at 2:16:49 pm

This is probably the one and only time that I have to disagree with Jeff and Noah. When we were looking for client presentation monitors (plasma being the obvious choice) I did a ton of research including talking to a good friend who is an R&D engineer at Panny as well as a few highly respected calibrators that I know.

Turns out that Panny consumer panels are actually better panels! What you miss on the consumer models is pro I/O HD-SDI, Component and some level of built in calibration control. Both of which aren't really necessary.

First with I/O there are lots of options out there for going HD-SDI to HDMI. I'm using an AJA HI5-3D to send the plasma a MUXED 3D signal over HDMI for clients as well as 2D (3D being in resolve only at this point for the tools we use). If you don't need 3D the regular HI 5 works fantastic for taking HD-SDI to HDMI.

Next on the calibration work with a high end calibrator. A good calibrator should be able to get the panel almost exactly to REC 709 spec for grayscale and primary and secondaries. For me the little bit of variance was worry some. So what we did was put a Cinetal Davio inline with the plasmas so that my calibrator could use the LUT tools of the DAVIO to get primaries and secondaries and grayscale to be spot on to REC 709.

Now the only thing that you should be aware of is that with consumer sets (but really any plasma) getting the panel to output exactly 35 foot lamberts is hard. The panels need to be driven pretty hard to do that and really only the newer panels (we have the VT-25s) are able to get close. My Panel is outputting 34.3 foot lamberts which to be honest is pretty good. Under most conditions you'd be hard pressed to see that .7 difference to spec.

Even though the plasmas with calibration etc are pretty spot on I will say that they (even the pro versions) are not reference monitors and we NOT designed as such. I trust the plasma but of course I have a reference display that I use (FSI 2460). In my setup I have never once had a client ask "which one do a look at?" because they match perfectly.

If you're thinking you're going to be doing a lot of 3D work in the future I would caution you from using a display (like the VT-25) for 3D work. Its not that its not good but Active Shutter is a pain in the ass. For 3D stuff the VT-25 was a stop gap measure as we wait and see if our 3D workload will pick up. When it does I will absoutly be getting another JVC passive 3D reference monitor (I have one in the suite as well as my FSI when doing 3D work)

My 2 cents

Robbie Carman
----------------
Colorist and Author
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Charlie KosheffRe: Panny pro vs. consumer?
by on Mar 30, 2011 at 3:19:29 pm

Robbie-
Thanks so much for this extremely thorough and informative post.

To all: I apologize for sticking this in the Color forum. I put this in the Color forum because the knowledge base here is more robust than the FCP forum on monitors in particular. I am not a colorist, I am an editor who is just looking for a good client monitor. I have a reference monitor I will use to check accuracy, but I need a decent client monitor. My clients won't know the difference if it is slightly off. I will send it out for calibration just for my own sake, and I have a good calibrator here in Boston.

I will be feeding this monitor via HDMI from either an AJA IO Express or a Matrox MXO mini. So I don't need SDI.

I may go with one of the non-3D models; I simply don't plan to incorporate 3D into my toolset, and still have a headache from Avatar.

The thing that is so frustrating is that Panasonic has so many models:
These are the Viera 42" non 3D 1080 models:

TC-P42S30- this one says the "moving picture resolution" is 900 lines.
TC-P42G25- This one says the MP resolution is 1080 lines. I assume that would be better.
TC-P42U2 (I think this is discontinued)
TC-P42S30 ( I also think this is discontinued)

The "Pro" line has another 2 models in the "TH" product numbers. I assume these are the ones you are saying, Robbie, that really are not worthwhile. I understand that anything in the "BT" line is far superior to all of these choices and qualify as true field and production monitors.

Robbie- do you think I should just go for the model you got (even though I don't need 3D) because it's better picture than these ones? If so I will do that.

Also- one question: Does the "just" mode on Panasonic give you 1:1 pixel mapping for 1920X1080 or is there still scaling involved, and is there a way to disable that feature?

-Thanks!



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Charlie KosheffRe: Panny pro vs. consumer?
by on Apr 1, 2011 at 11:07:44 am

I see it now. I need the one with the deeper set of picture controls, the G25.



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Illya LaneyRe: Panny pro vs. consumer?
by on Apr 1, 2011 at 6:23:17 pm

I bought a G25 a while back and it's awesome. Picked it up for $1100.

twitter.com/illyalaney



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Charlie KosheffRe: Panny pro vs. consumer?
by on Apr 2, 2011 at 11:26:17 am

Thanks for the tip!



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Jeff GreenbergRe: Panny pro vs. consumer?
by on Apr 2, 2011 at 4:11:37 pm

Totally cool info!

Best,

Jeff G

Apple Master Trainer | Avid Cert. Instructor DS/MC | Adobe Cert. Instructor
------------
You should follow me (filmgeek) on twitter. I promise to be nice.
Come See me speak at NAB!
Compressor Essentials from Lynda.com
(older but still good) Marquee, Media Composer (3.5) and Basic/Advanced Color DVDs (1.0) from Vasst.com
Contact me through my Website


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Scott CumboRe: Panny pro vs. consumer?
by on Apr 3, 2011 at 10:35:11 pm

If your going for close enough, get the consumer panny, and spend some cash on a probe/calibration software. A properly setup consumer monitor is better than a pro model thats plugged in out of the box.

Scott Cumbo
Editor
Broadway Video, NYC


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