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Color to 16mm, Broadcast Safe?

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Rafael AmadorColor to 16mm, Broadcast Safe?
by on Oct 10, 2009 at 6:04:21 am

Hi friends,
i have to shoot a short that will be printed in 16mm.
I want to do the CC in Color.
I found this very interesting thread:
http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/223/11507#11578
After reading that more of my question (LTUs, etc) have been cleared.
I will work in Rec 709 space.
I'm new to this workflow and my question can be silly,
Must a movie to be printed to film be Broadcast Safe?
Are the below "0" and over 100 values clipped some where in this process?
I think I should set the Blacks and let all the signal on top to be printed to film.
Will the lab deal with that?
Sorry for my ignorance.
Another question:
i understand the advantages of working Log instead of Lineal, but this really complicates the workflow.
Starting with HD video footage is it worth to go the "Logarithmic" way.
I have no idea of who or where the film will be printed. Probably in Hanoi or Bangkok.
Not sure If I will be present during the process.
Any thing to be aware about during this step?
Any tip will be welcome.
Best,
rafael
PS: I have more questions..

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Joseph OwensRe: Color to 16mm, Broadcast Safe?
by on Oct 10, 2009 at 4:11:12 pm


Must a movie to be printed to film be Broadcast Safe?
No.

Are the below "0" and over 100 values clipped some where in this process?
No, but they will most likely generate OOGs (out of gamut) errors (odd colors)

I think I should set the Blacks and let all the signal on top to be printed to film.
Will the lab deal with that?
Depends on the financial margins -- will that affect their bottom line? And it depends on their filmout LUT

Starting with HD video footage is it worth to go the "Logarithmic" way.
No.

I have no idea of who or where the film will be printed. Probably in Hanoi or Bangkok.
Not sure If I will be present during the process.
Any thing to be aware about during this step?

Then it is totally out of your control, and trying to intervene will only result in a descent into insanity. Read "Heart of Darkness" by Joseph Conrad.

jPo

This IS my blog!


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Rafael AmadorRe: Color to 16mm, Broadcast Safe?
by on Oct 11, 2009 at 2:42:29 pm

[Joseph Owens] "Read "Heart of Darkness" by Joseph Conrad. "
I'm there 10 years:-)
If you worry too much for what you can't control, you won't live long.
Thanks for your precise answers Joseph.
Let me add just one more question:


[Joseph Owens] "I think I should set the Blacks and let all the signal on top to be printed to film.
Will the lab deal with that?
Depends on the financial margins -- will that affect their bottom line? And it depends on their filmout LUT"

Having no indications from any lab and no idea in which hands the movie could finish:
Would you recommend me to make the master Broadcast Legal?
My idea is work in REC 709.
Thanks again for your help.
Best,
Rafael




http://www.nagavideo.com


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Joseph OwensRe: Color to 16mm, Broadcast Safe?
by on Oct 12, 2009 at 12:36:30 am

Broadcast Legal is there to protect television transmitters and the rather limited gamut of the digital video space. Film just doesn't suffer from these problems since it is not a sampled/quantized medium. It will take the spikes and undershoots without any complaining -- but the caveat is that the RGB values that are sent that are in an unconventional place -- above and below the normal broadcast range, may not and probably won't map properly to the CYMK-like emulsion layers that color film is composed of.

So you may get funny colours if you do generate OOGs and the print lab doesn't compensate or check for them.

"Legalize" the chrominance by all means, but you may not really have to be all that careful with the luma channel, and in fact, if you over-compress, then your filmout will start looking more like a "kinescope" than a theatre print.

jPo

This IS my blog!


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Rafael AmadorRe: Color to 16mm, Broadcast Safe?
by on Oct 12, 2009 at 4:18:38 pm

Hi Joseph,
Thanks again for your advice.
Rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Rafael AmadorRe: Color to 16mm, Broadcast Safe?
by on Nov 5, 2009 at 1:10:26 pm

Hi Joseph,
I'm about to start to correct the pictures of the short and I would like to ask you a couple of question.
I've been thinking about how to get what you suggested: Get rid of the RGB illegal values while keeping the Luma as untouched as possible.
I guess that I can tweak the "Broadcast Safe" in Color setting "Celling IRE: 109". This would cut for sure all the below 0 values.
But what about the values over 100?
By default I desaturate High and Low. I guess this will help but won't be enough.
What else can I try in Color or AE to make sure I won't get any strange color in the Highlights?
Thanks in advance for your suggestions.
Rafael


http://www.nagavideo.com


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walter biscardiRe: Color to 16mm, Broadcast Safe?
by on Nov 5, 2009 at 1:24:14 pm

[Rafael Amador] "I guess that I can tweak the "Broadcast Safe" in Color setting "Celling IRE: 109". This would cut for sure all the below 0 values. "

Setting the Ceiling IRE to 109 means Color will clip anything at 109 or above. If you want Broadcast Safe you set to 100 or, as we do in our shop here, 99.

If you mean cutting the blacks at 0, then you set your Floor to 0.


[Rafael Amador] "By default I desaturate High and Low. I guess this will help but won't be enough.
What else can I try in Color or AE to make sure I won't get any strange color in the Highlights? "


You start by bringing the luminance down to 100 or close to 100. If you really want to push an area over 100, I generally use vignetting to work on just those offending areas.



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Rafael AmadorRe: Color to 16mm, Broadcast Safe?
by on Nov 6, 2009 at 3:56:13 pm

[walter biscardi] "Setting the Ceiling IRE to 109 means Color will clip anything at 109 or above. If you want Broadcast Safe you set to 100 or, as we do in our shop here, 99. "
Hi Walter,
I'm trying to save as much Highlights as possible because this is due to be printed in 35mm (no 16 as I wrote). No problem to keep the Luma, but, as Joseph wrrote, I must be careful with strange colors that could be generated when transfered to film.
May be this the task of the film transfer guys?
rafael



http://www.nagavideo.com


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Arnie SchlisselRe: Color to 16mm, Broadcast Safe?
by on Oct 13, 2009 at 3:12:20 pm

As I said in your thread on the FCP forum, don't worry about broadcast safe.

Rec 709 is becoming the "plain vanilla" of color grading. It's a universal standard that anyone can pull up on an HD monitor and see the same thing.

Some large shops have their own 709-to-film LUT that they keep tailored to their chemistry. A small shop like us, we custom build the LUT for every job, regardless of where it comes from or how it's prepared. Either way, Rec 709 is an easy way for us to see what your intent is.

Only go log if the filmout house tells you to, and then do it with their LUT and specs. So if you can't have an engineer from the filmout house come over and set you up, then Rec 709 is the best way to go.

Arnie

Post production is not an afterthought!
http://www.arniepix.com/


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