Budget monitoring for Color
by Franco Bogino
on
Sep 21, 2009 at 10:24:33 am
Hi all
Have a question about a cheap monitoring solution for Color grading. I'm trying out a new venture, and can't afford to invest in costly pro equipment until I know the work can pay it's way. I'm looking at a fairly reliable option for my home system, running off a G4 MDD and working with Pal SD. (Obviously, I know there's no getting around the fact that you get what you pay for, but I want to know the best option that will maximise the money I have at the mo, and making sure I understand the principles of what's needed so I can make an educated choice). I think there are workarounds for calibration, so I'm not factoring that in at this stage.
One quandry is monitoring my grades within Color on a computer monitor via DVI (using the video image within the Color interface at full screen option), versus monitoring on a client monitor using component.
Someone has said that the DVI option is not viable because it provides the wrong colour space. I wanted to get some more opinions on this, as I thought that as long as the monitor is calibrated accurately it can be set to the right colour space.
The other is the actual monitor I use. Again, some opinion is that even a commercial flat screen TV would be better than a computer monitor due to these same colour space issues.
My second quandry is the HP Dreamcolor monitor. Is it any good? Would it be ok for grading video? I have seen one at a reasonable price second hand.
Just to give you an idea of the cash I have to play with, it's around £1000 UK Pounds. If I have to go down the composite route because DVI is a definite no no, then this money has to cover a new card for my G4 or some other form of breakout box to give me a composite signal.
I'd be looking at something like a Panasonic Pro Monitor (about £2000) if the work takes off, but the HP Dreamcolor just turned up at a bargain, so I'm interested to know how good it really is for video.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author.
Credits include multiple Emmy, Telly, Aurora and Peabody Awards.
Owner, Biscardi Creative Media featuring HD Post Biscardi Creative Media
Creative Cow Forum Host:
Apple Final Cut Pro, Apple Motion, Apple Color, AJA Kona, Business & Marketing, Maxx Digital.
Re: Budget monitoring for Color by Alan Okey on Sep 21, 2009 at 9:08:59 pm
[walter biscardi]"Just search Dreamcolor on this forum. LONG thread with pretty much everything you ever wanted to know about that monitor. "
I just glanced at that thread and I think I lost three years off my life.
What's so attractive about that monitor that people are so willing to jump through hoops to try to get it working correctly with Color/video applications? It's not like it's that much cheaper than a real broadcast LCD like the FSI, especially when you factor in the cost of the Gefen interface.
Seriously, can you explain to me just what's so appealing about going through that much work to get what is obviously a prepress-focused monitor to properly display video?
Re: Budget monitoring for Color by walter biscardi on Sep 21, 2009 at 9:41:42 pm
[Alan Okey]"Seriously, can you explain to me just what's so appealing about going through that much work to get what is obviously a prepress-focused monitor to properly display video?"
Actually I believe it's designed for 3D animation work primarily.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author.
Credits include multiple Emmy, Telly, Aurora and Peabody Awards.
Owner, Biscardi Creative Media featuring HD Post Biscardi Creative Media
Creative Cow Forum Host:
Apple Final Cut Pro, Apple Motion, Apple Color, AJA Kona, Business & Marketing, Maxx Digital.
Re: Budget monitoring for Color by Alan Okey on Sep 21, 2009 at 9:43:42 pm
Ok then, can you explain to me just what's so appealing about going through that much work to get a 3D animation-focused monitor to properly display video?
Re: Budget monitoring for Color by walter biscardi on Sep 22, 2009 at 1:27:50 am
[Alan Okey]"Ok then, can you explain to me just what's so appealing about going through that much work to get a 3D animation-focused monitor to properly display video? "
No clue. I trust the FSI's. Turn 'em on and go.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author.
Credits include multiple Emmy, Telly, Aurora and Peabody Awards.
Owner, Biscardi Creative Media featuring HD Post Biscardi Creative Media
Creative Cow Forum Host:
Apple Final Cut Pro, Apple Motion, Apple Color, AJA Kona, Business & Marketing, Maxx Digital.
Re: Budget monitoring for Color by Franco Bogino on Sep 21, 2009 at 4:55:54 pm
I know it's only a G4, but for the mo I can't afford to upgrade. So far I haven't had a problem, everything takes longer but I've onlined a couple of promos on it with good results.
I just need to have a better monitoring solution, the one I'm using at the mo requires a lot of guess work and checking stuff at facilities when I get the opportunity.
Franco
London based Avid/ FCP offline editor.
FCP Online.
Re: Budget monitoring for Color by Franco Bogino on Sep 21, 2009 at 9:24:02 pm
The workflow is mine from start to finish. I'm working on really low budget stuff that I will be shooting myself, so I'm not worried about other issues for now.
I am looking for a solution for my G4 initially. My main query is if I can monitor accurately through DVI and using the full screen image in Color as my reference.
If this is viable I can spend up to £1000 UK on a monitor perhaps something secondhand.
If the DVI option is a no go, then I'll have to consider investing in a video card like a Kona or something. Only if absolutely necessary will I invest in a G5 at this stage.
There's no point me forking out big money for new stuff at the moment, as by the time the jobs I get in are of a high enough level to pay their way there will be new better technology and my stuff will be out of date!
Cheers
Franco
London based Avid/ FCP offline editor.
FCP Online.
Re: Budget monitoring for Color by Arnie Schlissel on Sep 22, 2009 at 1:19:18 am
[Franco Bogino]"The workflow is mine from start to finish. I'm working on really low budget stuff that I will be shooting myself, so I'm not worried about other issues for now. "
If you can even run Color on a G4, you will be sorry that you tried. Use the 3way CC in FCP. It will work, and is really quite capable. Use it in conjunction with the Proc Amp to set the blacks and learn to use FCP's matte & shape generators to create vignettes.
Arnie
Post production is not an afterthought!
http://www.arniepix.com/
Re: Budget monitoring for Color by Franco Bogino on Sep 22, 2009 at 7:23:18 am
I am already using Color on my G4 with great success. Bear in mind that I am working with DV footage at the moment, and DVCPro HD. This is low budget stuff.
My issue isn't getting Color to work, it's monitoring my grades correctly. Does anyone know if it is possible to monitor accurately through the DVI connection and Color's inbuilt image monitor?
I'm looking at a cheaper option for now, but for example, if I were to connect an expensive computer monitor to the second DVI, would it give me good results or is there an inherent problem in judging video tonal and contrast adjustments via DVI?
Cheers
Franco
London based Avid/ FCP offline editor.
FCP Online.
Re: Budget monitoring for Color by walter biscardi on Sep 22, 2009 at 12:01:37 pm
[Franco Bogino]"My issue isn't getting Color to work, it's monitoring my grades correctly. Does anyone know if it is possible to monitor accurately through the DVI connection and Color's inbuilt image monitor? "
No. We have stated this many many times on this forum. The preview image in Color should not be used for color grading. It's primarily there to show you vignette placement and such. The colors are not accurate for broadcast / film standards.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author.
Credits include multiple Emmy, Telly, Aurora and Peabody Awards.
Owner, Biscardi Creative Media featuring HD Post Biscardi Creative Media
Creative Cow Forum Host:
Apple Final Cut Pro, Apple Motion, Apple Color, AJA Kona, Business & Marketing, Maxx Digital.
Re: Budget monitoring for Color by Paul Provost on Sep 23, 2009 at 11:21:14 pm
from page 150 of the new Color 1.5 maunual:
Using the Preview Display as Your Evaluation Monitor: Whether or not the preview display in the Scopes window is appropriate to use as your
evaluation monitor depends on a number of factors, the most important of which is the
amount of confidence you have in the quality of your preview display.
Many users opt to use the preview display as an evaluation monitor, especially when
grading scanned film in a 2K workflow, but you need to make sure that you’re using a
monitor capable of displaying the range of contrast and color necessary for maintaining
accuracy to your facility’s standards. Also, success depends on proper monitor calibration,
combined with color profiling and simulation of the eventual film output using LUT
management. (See “What Is a LUT?” for more information.)
"GIRLS ON THE WALL" PBS documentary
grade and finish @ post + beam
http://www.postandbeam.tv
Re: Budget monitoring for Color by joey Orr on Oct 16, 2009 at 11:31:53 am
Hi Franco,
Did you sort your problem? I have a G5 Quad 2.5 with ATI1900GT and a PVM20/SDI which I used to use to grade. Although not a grade 1 the PVM has EBU phosphors and was the best option when I set up. I'd hire in a grade 1 when it mattered! It's gathering dust at the mo so if you're interested get in touch. Even if you are sorted it'd be good to meet a fellow London editor who grows his own.
NB:
(you'd need a capture card line the Kona LHe to join up the dots!)
Cheers,
Joe Orr
07590 041 430
Scarab
Mac Pro Octo 2.26 16Gb Ram (Purchased Sept '09)
SL 10.1.6
ATI 4870
Kona LHe
640GB Startup
1TB Internal Storage
2TB SCSI Raid Storage
Tangent Wave
FCP Suite 3 (FCP 7.0, Color 1.5)
