time code display
by bob cole
on
Feb 17, 2007 at 3:44:24 pm
sort of a cross-post from the HDV forum, but here goes:
I'm looking for an outboard device which displays the current time code, so that an assistant can make real-time notes without continually asking the camera operator. I assume that for a Sony Z1 or similar camera, this data will come from the Firewire cable, which of course I want to use for DV Rack.
Is there some component of DV Rack which I could use for this? Is there some other software which could coexist with DV Rack on my laptop and show current timecode?
Is there any way to use the Firewire out from the camera for both my hypothetical timecode display unit and DV Rack?
Re: time code display by Tim Kolb on Feb 19, 2007 at 4:35:57 am
Hi Bob,
If the camera and DV Rack are slaved, the timecode should be correct on the top of the DV rack DVTR panel...shouldn't it?
I've never used it that way...but I would think it should be correct.
I don't know of a way to split the FW output to get timecode out unfortunately....(that doesn't mean there isn't one...I've just not come across it yet)
Re: time code display by Bob Cole on Feb 19, 2007 at 2:51:51 pm
[Tim Kolb]"If the camera and DV Rack are slaved, the timecode should be correct on the top of the DV rack DVTR panel...shouldn't it?"
You're right. I assume you're talking about the "DVR-1000." But
1 - the timecode display is tiny, which means it's hard for the camera operator and the assistant both to have close-enough access.
2 - the timecode changes to elapsed time when the camera stops, so you can't jot down the timecode at the most convenient time, which is between takes.
3 - if you click on any of the clips in the DVR-1000 to review them, you have to close the DVR and reopen it, or it won't show the current running timecode.
Maybe I'm still missing something?
It would be a great additional feature, imho, if Serious Magic/Adobe could improve the timecode display. I can't be the only one who has wanted an outboard tc display? I've been looking for something I could slap onto the non-operator side of the camera, and DV Rack is the closest I've come to a solution at a reasonable price.
Re: time code display by Bob Cole on Feb 19, 2007 at 3:49:00 pm
[Bob Cole]"3 - if you click on any of the clips in the DVR-1000 to review them, you have to close the DVR and reopen it, or it won't show the current running timecode."
correction: You don't have to close the DVR to regain camera time code. You can hit the stop button on the DVR-1000, which will return the focus to the monitor, and allow the current camera time code to appear on the DVR-1000 the next time the camera rolls.
Re: time code display by David Smith on Feb 28, 2007 at 9:06:32 pm
[Bob Cole]"I can't be the only one who has wanted an outboard tc display? I've been looking for something I could slap onto the non-operator side of the camera, and DV Rack is the closest I've come to a solution at a reasonable price."
Bob, take a look at ScopeBox. It has a large TC palette, which does not default to elapsed time when you stop the camera or DDR. It's seeing timecode from the firewire source or from a QT movie file. It doesn't seem to be frame accurate however there is a frame offset setting that's supposed to correct for the display. I'm still testing that. For rough logging notes though, it's close enough.
Re: time code display -AND, OT- external drives - and 2.5" drive speed by David Smith on Feb 28, 2007 at 9:21:35 pm
Whoops, never mind Bob. I had seen your post about using a Macbook Pro so thought you were on the Mac side. I see from your later post you are using a Dell laptop. When you've saved up for that new 'book, check out Scopebox then.
By the way, you mentioned in that thread about wanting a fast internal drive. Why not record to an external drive? Also of note: I've been researching drive speeds in the 2.5" form factor and was interested in test results at barefeats that show what while 7200 rpm drives are faster to start, if you have it pretty full you may be better off with a larger capacity 5400 rpm drive.
Their test compared a 100GB notebook drive running at 7200, to a 160GB notebook drive at 5400. With 90GB of data on the drives, the larger drive was faster and was at 56% capacity, while the 7200 drive at 90% capacity was slower.
Not so patiently waiting for my new minixpress bus powered case with 160GB Hitachi inside....... FedEx has ten minutes left to get it here on time!
Re: time code display by David Smith on Feb 28, 2007 at 8:56:03 pm
[Tim Kolb]"the timecode should be correct on the top of the DV rack DVTR panel...shouldn't it?"
Has anyone tested the timecode in DV Rack files compared to the same footage on tape? I've been doing some testing today on ScopeBox and I'd like to know how accurate and consistent the TC in DV Rack is.
Bob - It's a shame the Z1 doesn't allow for data display through the composite out so your assistant could log from a small monitor. Many cameras can do this, but alas the Z1 doesn't seem to. You can turn on the display via the composite, but it only comes on when you're in one of the menus. It does work for playback, but that doesn't solve your problem.
accuracy of time code data in DV Rack - call for testing by Bob Cole on Mar 10, 2007 at 2:49:49 pm
[David Smith]"Has anyone tested the timecode in DV Rack files compared to the same footage on tape?"
GREAT QUESTION ! ! !
I've been delaying an answer bec. I've been on the road but I just tested two sections of an interview, and got alarming results.
The TC was off by 14:19 and by 21:16 in the two places I tested.
Now, I'm still a FCP novice, and I realize that all sorts of other things might have gotten in the way. Originally my timeline was set to NDF, for example. But that didn't seem to affect the results.
Could some other people please test the accuracy of the DV Rack timecode?
This is a big deal. I am not at all sure that it isn't my error, but whatever the cause, I would really appreciate knowing.
Thanks, and thanks to David for raising the issue.
Re: accuracy of time code data in DV Rack - call for testing by David Smith on Mar 13, 2007 at 2:35:18 pm
[Bob Cole]"The TC was off by 14:19 and by 21:16 in the two places I tested."
Thank you Bob. Those are some pretty disturbing numbers, especially the inconsistency they suggest. Were those two clips from the same set-up (using the same computer and drives, same camera, codec etc etc)?
Re: accuracy of time code data in DV Rack - call for testing by Bob Cole on Mar 13, 2007 at 3:58:34 pm
Just set up an on-purpose test and found similar results: DV Rack indicates a TC about 24 seconds greater than actual at the beginning of an 8-minute clip, which grows to about 30 seconds by the end.
The discrepancy at the start may have something to do with the lag time on my Sony Z1 between pressing the Record button for the first time in awhile, and actual start of recording. But why should the TC offset change?
If anybody else can duplicate these results please let me know, in case it's a setup error on my part.
outboard time code display from Z1 UPDATE- Yes you can by David Smith on Mar 25, 2007 at 5:51:47 pm
[David Smith]"Bob - It's a shame the Z1 doesn't allow for data display through the composite out so your assistant could log from a small monitor. Many cameras can do this, but alas the Z1 doesn't seem to."
