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stuttering footage in fcp6 shot 24fps showing as 30fps

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rudy montoyastuttering footage in fcp6 shot 24fps showing as 30fps
by on Aug 22, 2009 at 1:53:16 am

i was having trouble exporting hdv footage out of fcp to dvd. it looked terrible. and jittery. my computer is OLD imag g5 having never dealt with hd i thought it was just my computer choking the whole time. i even had the frame rate in the timline cut in half to help with the dropped frames. the whole process was very slow for a 12minute film.

so i spent the entire last two days doing a battery of tests with my video in fcp and trying all deinterlace options- some with some without, exporting to all kinds of different formats etc. comparing results, making notes.
the deinterlacing is the culprit for the shimmery effect i was having on the stills and leaving interlaced imporved that but deinterlacing is needed in the high movement areas for obvious combing artifacts if left interlaced but deinterlacing introduced that fukn stuttery thing that was happening.
i was counting the frames finally even though everything shows up as 30 fps even though i had thought i had shot in 24 fps.
even the captured footage placed on my drive shows as 30 fps. but it was really weird. i thought progressive is every frame is captured as it is and with interlaced every frame is blended. well, this footage in its original interlaced state goes 3 frames solid then 2 frames interlaced. keeps that pattern for 30 frames for one minute. once i add deinterlace it changes to 4 frames solid then 1 frame a copy of the forth with no movement coming to 30 fps resulting in that stuttery shit thereby giving a stutter 6 times each second.

this morning i finally looked up the manual for the camera used (sony hvr v1u hdv) and it indeed sais it shoots in 1080 p both 24 and 30. i was sure i shot in 1080 24p a year ago now so my memory is a bit blurred but saw it said 30when i pulled up info on each clip and even counted 30fps measuring against the seconds counter in the quicktime player from the scratch disc.

now, as i scrub through and watching a moving seagull in the distance moving steadily i shot and counting its movement i see in the interlaced footage that there again is a duplicat frame just like after deinterlacing but its just two combined fields so it comes out to 24 or 25 actual frames per second as well as the deinterlace which comes out to 24 to 25 fps if i count only the 4 frames and not the 5th in the series which is a duplicate of the 4th.
....
all this leads me in my growning suspicion to believe that it could have been captured as 30 fps instead of the 24 i thought i had shot it in when captured from the camera to the deck or from the deck to my drive or whatever. could that have happened?
if so it would be a matter of recapturing the entire thing or redoing the entire thing as the frame rate would change. i could make markers ma;ybe in the video clips as to where the cuts and transitions go but the entire sync of the audio would be way off since the sound is all foley done in post against the footage i have here.
possible total nightmare but not as bad as losing the master tapes i guess.

any ideas? this technology is new to me but all ive been doing is studying the footage and reading up and dont see anything to point to why the footage is 3 progressive followed by 2 interlaced other than fcp is trying to adjust from change in frame rate to make it 30. so im hoping its not this but signs are starting to point to it as i cant find anything else that works.


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Rafael AmadorRe: stuttering footage in fcp6 shot 24fps showing as 30fps
by on Aug 22, 2009 at 4:31:11 am

Hi Rudy,
The mechanic system (engine, gears, captan,..) of the NTSC camcorders are designed to record 30fps (29'98 or..) so when you want to record 24fps the machine must repeat some frames (fields) to fill the 30 images per second.
That's call Pulldown and dealing with this is a daily routine for most NTSC video editors.
I can not tell you much more about because I'm in PAL-land (thanks God I have not to deal with Pulldowns), but I believe in the FC manual you will find all the info needed.
You will find as well a lot of info just using the Search option in this forum.
And you can post again if you have any question.
Cheers,
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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rudy montoyaRe: stuttering footage in fcp6 shot 24fps showing as 30fps
by on Aug 22, 2009 at 4:39:29 pm

thanks rafael,

but i thought if it was true 24f Progressive it wouldnt look like that. i thought what you mention is only for the first cameras that came out trying to mimic the film look of 24frames.


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rudy montoyaRe: stuttering footage in fcp6 shot 24fps showing as 30fps
by on Aug 22, 2009 at 5:37:10 pm

still seems odd that the pattern would be 3 progressive frames followed by 2 interlaced. if i deinterlace it it becomes 4 progressive and the 5th frame is a copy of the 4th creating a stuttering look.


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rudy montoyaRe: stuttering footage in fcp6 shot 24fps showing as 30fps
by on Aug 22, 2009 at 9:35:01 pm

thanks rafael,
got the 24 p figured out i think.
but having a problem with the quality of the image:
ill post my latest questionin a new post



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Rafael AmadorRe: stuttering footage in fcp6 shot 24fps showing as 30fps
by on Aug 23, 2009 at 3:41:58 am

Hi Rudy,
When the cameras record in any kind of memory, they could record 24, 30 or whatever time base.
Tape based formats can't have this flexibility.
Anyway NTSC is always 29'98 (?) fps. If you want to record or reproduce p24 in an NTSC system, the pulldown must be added.
For example when you preview your p24 sequence in an external NTSC monitor, somewhere the pulldown is added.
Thousands of peoples in this forum will leads you better than my self on this issue.
Cheers,
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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