Connecting monitor to Mac Pro to work with FCP suite
by Jim Nicholson
on
Aug 10, 2009 at 3:01:43 pm
Hi all
Just switched to Mac from PC platform, recently ventured to video production from a 30 year history of consumer video and just started and learning to use FCP suite.
Ok now we all know I am green but I have and am learning through DVD courses, online training, talking to those doing it and through forums.
Yep it is an awesome task but I love video and will learn.
Today's question, and yes there will be more....how do I connect a crt monitor (for now a 19" crt tv) to monitor quality and colors to my Mac Pro. I have 4 pc's (use them all) but they are connected to a 21" LCD by way of a justcom switch. Then I have my 23" Samsung LCD connected to the Mac Pro. It does not reproduce a decent picture when editing SD to see what the finished product will be, oh I am mostly shooting SD but I do have a HD camera so I will eventually shoot that but I do not have the firewire drive yet to shoot to.
I have been shooting to DV tape and also P2 cards but the cost of the P2 cards is prohibiting me from shooting to them. I only have (1) 16 gb P2 card now. I can hold 69 min. of SD and 8 min. of HD so my choice is to get a firewire hd to capture to until I can afford P2 or whatever will be the norm by then. I feel that is the best overall as I can shoot both HD and SD to the firewire drive.
Not to get off topic.... I need to learn how can I connect this crt monitor to my Mac Pro. The crt has RCA input and also coax. I was told the Mac Pro can connect 2 monitors at a time. Apple has been little help as they just keep trying to sell me the Enterprise support package which I cant afford. I just need to get this question answered and not pay $900 a year to get it.
Any help will be appreciated. I am also still trying to learn the technology so I may not be up on acronyms I see all over. Please use basic terms.
Re: Connecting monitor to Mac Pro to work with FCP suite by David Roth Weiss on Aug 10, 2009 at 3:49:39 pm
Welcome to FCP, welcome to the Cow Jim. Okay, now that we have the formalities out of the way, let's get down to your formal education...
First, there is a big difference between computer monitors and video monitors and TVs, and there is a huge difference in the cards and other devices that feed signals to them, and they are not interchangeable. So, you cannot feed your TV a proper video signal from your laptop computer using it's internal display card, which is improperly called a "video card," thus causing many a high level of confusion.
The least expensive route for displaying a proper video signal to a TV or monitor is to output the video signal over firewire and route that through a video camera to the monitor via composite cables (i.e. red,white, yellow RCA cables. This is spelled out in the FCP manual, and Shane Ross has a FAQ around that you could search for here on the Cow.
Another solution is to acquire a video I/O (input/output) device such as the Matrox MXO for $950, which somehow turns the computer display signal into a true video signal. There are more expensive I/O devices as well from AJA and Blackmagic as well.
Hope this helps...
David
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.
Re: Connecting monitor to Mac Pro to work with FCP suite by Jim Nicholson on Aug 10, 2009 at 4:11:31 pm
Hi
Thanks for the response. Not that it would make a difference but I have the Mac Pro (desktop) many make this assumption and think I have the Mac Book Pro (laptop).
Getting back to my dilema, I am coming from the PC world where all my computers had video cards (aftermarket of course) that could easily output to video monitors or tv's. As I said the Mac world is all new to me.
I was told by the salesman at the Mac store I bought the box with the most and can do everything my PC could do and more.
Well as you see that was false and although maybe there is some sense of truth to that but they left out the fact that yes as long as you buy all the big dollar items to make that work. I thought I did when I bought the Mac which cost more than all 4 of my powerful PC's and my Windows based notebook all together.
Not to get into a PC Mac war I just want to make this setup work without getting a 3rd mortgage.
So I need that convertor to do it the right way. I am trying to setup an editing studio so running it through a camera would not be the way I want to do it. I was hoping to upgrade as I go as I earned a little then continue to get what is needed to have a decent setup.
Those neat little 13" monitors I see in the bays of editors I guess are all monitors already setup for the video out of their computers or maybe they are also using a convertor?
I guess I hoped I could buy a used monitor that accepted dvi so I could come off the mac directly to it if I coul dnot use the crt I have.
Re: Connecting monitor to Mac Pro to work with FCP suite by walter biscardi on Aug 10, 2009 at 4:23:56 pm
[Jim Nicholson]"Getting back to my dilema, I am coming from the PC world where all my computers had video cards (aftermarket of course) that could easily output to video monitors or tv's. As I said the Mac world is all new to me.
"
Same with the Mac. You pick up a video card after market. My advice is the AJA Kona LHi as this gives you full SD and HD monitoring along with all forms of conversions from SD to HD, HD to SD and 720 to 1080 or vice versa.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author.
Credits include multiple Emmy, Telly, Aurora and Peabody Awards.
Owner, Biscardi Creative Media featuring HD Post Biscardi Creative Media
Creative Cow Forum Host:
Apple Final Cut Pro, Apple Motion, Apple Color, AJA Kona, Business & Marketing, Maxx Digital.
Re: Connecting monitor to Mac Pro to work with FCP suite by John Fishback on Aug 10, 2009 at 4:07:50 pm
You need an input/output device. It connects to your MacPro with a PCI card or Firewire cable. Your monitor connects to that box to view the output. Likewise you feed video into the box for capture. You'll have to decide how much you want to spend and how capable the box must be in terms of SD and/or HD. There are many choices.
Re: Connecting monitor to Mac Pro to work with FCP suite by Jim Nicholson on Aug 10, 2009 at 4:21:26 pm
Hi
Thanks for the help. I now capture through firewire to the mac without any extra convertor so if I get a convertor would I still need to capture through the convertor or would I still be able to go through the method I do now?
All I am trying to accomplish is a way to get an output to a crt monitor to color correct for SD. I already have the ability to capture to FCP.
Re: Connecting monitor to Mac Pro to work with FCP suite by David Roth Weiss on Aug 10, 2009 at 5:30:27 pm
Jim,
FCP is a professional video non-linear editing system. It's not for everyone, and no one ever said professional video was easy, except maybe the guy you spoke with at the Apple Store. That's why he's at the Apple Store and not working in the television and film industry.
In any case, with your big investment behind you, you're in for the duration now, so get over thinking like you're on a PC, that was just kid stuff -- FCP on your new MacPro is the real deal and it's going to require that you focus forward and really learn video, otherwise you're going to get stuck and find yourself with a $6500 torture machine.
Also, it really helps if you learn and use proper terminology so you can get things straight in your mind and so you can converse accurately with those of us who want to help you. I used the term I/O card earlier for a reason -- I/O cards have both input and output capabilities, so whenever discussing them you always picture a pipeline in and a pipeline out. However, that does not mean that you have to use it's input capabilities, you can still use firewire and many still do just that, but it does have the input capabilities. For the record, many who have I/O cards use them only for their accurate display capability, never using them for input or output to tape at all, because viewing an accurate representation of your video is the single most important thing there is in editing. If you're going to spend days and weeks doing this stuff you do want to know what you're really doing, right?
BTW, in the future, phone a value added reseller (VAR) such as Promax, Safe Harbor, or even The Video Guys and discuss your needs before buying hardware, the geniuses at the Apple Store are not really geniuses, that's just sales tool. VARs know much more about video and they will steer you in the right direction before selling things to you, because they have to take them back if they sell you the wrong thing.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
A forum host of Creative COW's Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.
Re: Connecting monitor to Mac Pro to work with FCP suite by Jim Nicholson on Aug 10, 2009 at 5:59:45 pm
Yes, Yes, and Yes. I have been around the block a few times and do realize that FCP is the real deal. I guess there is a bit of tension :) over the Mac and PC thing. I do love the Mac and admit it is like owning a Chevy Vega (when you could own one) and owning a Ferrari (could never afford to own one) the Mac is a real hard core workhorse and pc's are good for gamers. But not to start the war just my impression.
I am mad at myself for not educating myself on the setup (tried but wow)spent weeks online and had a zillion more questions after then when I started so I hurried to the Apple store to talk to the experts. After all who better than the maker could answer my questions right?
I bought the biggest baddest box they had and the FCP suite and dumped all but 7k at the store (no monitor). After getting it home realized the advertised massive hd was only 500 gb (whats wrong with that statement) only 500gb I remember when 100 mb was a jumbo. :o) Anyway so I added 2 1 TB hd's and memory.
Again the Apple guys could or would not answer questions. When I called support because my FCP suite was crashing and doing all kinds of weird stuff (this I feel is built in marketing for pay support) I will touch on that later, I asked about the capabilities of this powerhouse. They could or would not answer, they would not even address the software issues. They kept telling me I really need the Enterprise support even though it was only days after I got this thing home.
I finally demanded to speak to someone that could address my WARRANTY concerns without trying to upsell me. Finally spoke to tech that basically told me to use it a couple weeks and he was sure it would clear up.
Guess what? It did so strange. I first used FCP, Soundtrack Pro, DVD Studio Pro all had issues crashing or locking up or hanging. After repeated crap and re starting and what not it did settle down in a week.
I recently tried to use color , and Live Type and guess what they are doing the same thing. My take on this is their marketing scheme to sell their $900 yr plan. After a week all works. Just long enough for you to call support and get talked into the plan. My thought anyway.
Getting back to the issue at hand, I agree I have to really bear down and learn, which I admit I am doing. I have completed several jobs that are good but I want great. To do great I need to not cut too many corners and do it the right way. I use every means I can find to learn, I keep buying training DVD's,(so I have them when I forget what I learned) I am active on forums, blogs, and have a few relationships with real experienced people that know their trade.
I learned one thing years ago, first you need to decide who knows what they say they know, and secondly surround yourself with the ones that know their stuff and learn from them.
I hope to learn here and one day be the voice on the other end helping others as I have been helped.
Thanks to all for the help. Watch for more intense questions as I quest for knowledge and the golden BB! Taken from Air America the movie. No ties just liked it.
Re: Connecting monitor to Mac Pro to work with FCP suite by walter biscardi on Aug 10, 2009 at 6:16:44 pm
[Jim Nicholson]"I am mad at myself for not educating myself on the setup (tried but wow)spent weeks online and had a zillion more questions after then when I started so I hurried to the Apple store to talk to the experts. After all who better than the maker could answer my questions right? "
For a Mac yes. For a professional video editing setup, as you have learned, not so good. You'll find most of us, myself included, purchase primarily through VARs that specialize in professional configurations. Myself I go through the WH Platts company here in Atlanta as they are a broadcast centric company that caters to the needs of boutique companies like myself all the way to full broadcast studio configurations. Yes, I can walk down to the Apple Store and pick up a new computer, but I've built a 5 year relationship with this company and they know my facility. So when I ask about a new computer, they know all the right questions to ask me about how it will be used to ensure it's properly set up.
The computer is just one part of the equation, making it work as a professional video workstation requires technical knowledge beyond what is available at your local Apple Store.
Where are you located? I'm sure someone on here can suggest a good VAR for your future purchases and assistance.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author.
Credits include multiple Emmy, Telly, Aurora and Peabody Awards.
Owner, Biscardi Creative Media featuring HD Post Biscardi Creative Media
Creative Cow Forum Host:
Apple Final Cut Pro, Apple Motion, Apple Color, AJA Kona, Business & Marketing, Maxx Digital.
Re: Connecting monitor to Mac Pro to work with FCP suite by Jim Nicholson on Aug 10, 2009 at 8:39:02 pm
Hi
I am in PA. I have bought all the direct video equipment except the computer and software from B+H photo.
I guess they would be considered a VAR but I already have lost hundreds from their recommendations like what camera bag or case I should get. I bought my Pan AG-HVX200A from them and under what case they suggested was the Porta Brace soft case and nothing else was listed. Bought the one they said and it was for a broadcast camera. Way too big, special order so no returns.
Secondly they offered tri pod leg and fluid head combos which I got one and later found out from the manufacture it was sold that way but had since been stopped because of the exact problems I had. They said it was stopped 6 months to a year prior to when I bought it. Seems like B+H did not agree with them and kept selling it. The legs were not strong enough for the resistance of the fluid head. When you panned no matter what you did it was jerky. I called Monfrotto and as soon as I said what pair I had they said oh no that wont work!
To be clear, it was tri pod legs and fluid head Monfrotto to be exact. I looked on B+H web and I found the fluid head I liked and under other accessories they listed the legs and also had it listed as a kit. B+H put it together not Monfrotto.
So I lost hundreds so far. Any other VAR you might suggest?
Re: Connecting monitor to Mac Pro to work with FCP suite by walter biscardi on Aug 10, 2009 at 8:50:19 pm
[Jim Nicholson]"I am in PA. I have bought all the direct video equipment except the computer and software from B+H photo.
I guess they would be considered a VAR"
No, not a VAR. An internet clearinghouse is more appropriate. A true VAR gives good advice before, during and especially AFTER the sale. They develop a relationship with you to make you a long term client. I never purchase from B&H unless I absolutely have to and there only for smaller items.
WH Platts does cover the whole east coast, but I'm sure you can find some recommendations in PA.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author.
Credits include multiple Emmy, Telly, Aurora and Peabody Awards.
Owner, Biscardi Creative Media featuring HD Post Biscardi Creative Media
Creative Cow Forum Host:
Apple Final Cut Pro, Apple Motion, Apple Color, AJA Kona, Business & Marketing, Maxx Digital.
Re: Connecting monitor to Mac Pro to work with FCP suite by Todd Gillespie on Aug 10, 2009 at 8:59:40 pm
For VARs, it can be a very personal.
Through the years, I've purchase equipment from just about everyone.-it's not a good thing. BH does have the best pricing, but unless your happy with what you receive (as you've experienced) it can be hard to live with.
For you, it would probably be best to find a VAR that you can go to and actually hold, touch, shake, etc the equipment before you buy it. Since you don't know a lot about equipment it's going to be important that the VAR understands you're needs and that you understand what you're getting. A good VAR, even if they don't stock an item you might be interest in, sometimes can get a sales rep to stop by with a demo that you can look at. As Walter mentioned, once you find a VAR that you like, it can be a great relationship for you both. They get all of your business, and you get someone who can answer your questions and will have your back if you need a return.
Hint, usually good VARs are NOT going to have the best pricing on every piece of equipment-it's a trade off for having quality staff.
Re: Connecting monitor to Mac Pro to work with FCP suite by walter biscardi on Aug 10, 2009 at 9:19:23 pm
[Todd Gillespie]"Hint, usually good VARs are NOT going to have the best pricing on every piece of equipment-it's a trade off for having quality staff. "
I can absolutely agree with that. There are times I pay more than the "going internet rate" for products from the Platts company, but their service more than makes up for any monetary cost. Especially when it comes to returns, technical issues, etc... If something doesn't work as advertised, THEY deal with the manufacturers, not me.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author.
Credits include multiple Emmy, Telly, Aurora and Peabody Awards.
Owner, Biscardi Creative Media featuring HD Post Biscardi Creative Media
Creative Cow Forum Host:
Apple Final Cut Pro, Apple Motion, Apple Color, AJA Kona, Business & Marketing, Maxx Digital.
Re: Connecting monitor to Mac Pro to work with FCP suite by Jim Nicholson on Aug 11, 2009 at 3:34:13 am
"Yes, I can walk down to the Apple Store and pick up a new computer, but I've built a 5 year relationship with this company and they know my facility"
The problem I have with the Apple store knowing nothing about video editing, they write the FCP software so why should I not expect them to know about it? I bought the software there as well.
Why would I deal with others when it comes to Apple made products.
Apple was paid so they should have the answers.
I know in a perfect word!
Re: Connecting monitor to Mac Pro to work with FCP suite by Shane Ross on Aug 12, 2009 at 3:50:26 am
Just to get BACK on topic for a moment...
Those GRAPHICS cards you used in PCs had S-Video out. But they sent out a non-professional computer-type signal...basically making a TV into a third monitor, or a player for a number of PC applications. Mac graphics cards have those too, but you do not use that to monitor video from FCP. NO, you need capture cards or video input/output devices. High end cards like the AJA Kona series, Decklink Extreme series and Matrox MXO 2 ($900 - $3500). Or mid level Decklink Intensity/Intensity Pro, MXO2 mini and AJA I/O Express (around $150-$500). Those do SD and prepare you for the HD world.
Now...if you want SD only, and you are working with DV, then a DV camera, deck, or DV I/O device like the Canopus AVCD-300 will work. But that is almost as much as an Intensity Pro, MXO2 mini or AJA Express. So really, the mid level would be a good starting point for this. And all have RCA component and composite connections.
And just to comment on the whole PC/Mac thing. PCs aren't just for gamers...they too are used as professional level editing systems. Setting Avid aside (as it is high end enterprise class, on PC and Mac), there is Sony Vegas, Adobe Premiere, Edius...a few others. And they TOO use capture cards or I/O devices. The Matrox RT is for Premiere, Edius has it's own hardware...both might use the AJA Xena cards. Vegas might have something too....I just don't know what.
The point is...this isn't just a "Mac thing." This is a PROFESSIONAL VIDEO editing thing. Start getting into professional video production and things will start to cost more...and throw in HD...a LOT more. More than a $7000 computer with software, monitor and hard drives. No, you need proper monitoring, proper I/O video devices, and then something to output your final projects too, if you go the BluRay route, or HD Tape route.
Your big hurdles are not only the leap from PC to Mac....but the leap from hobbyist video into the professional video world. And you are trying to do this on your own...self taught. There will be issues, and a lot of them will be user error. If I bought a set of tools and lumber and some blue-prints...or Time/Life books...and then set out to build a house, there are bound to be HUGE issues with this house. I will mess up a lot along the way, and it will take a long time. Not only the building of the structure, but then, oh my, there's plumbing and electrical. Just like there is editing, then color correction, then post sound work...and graphics. There are people who ONLY do audio, ONLY color correct, ONLY edit...as long term careers. just like there are plumbers and carpenters and electricians.
So yes, this can be done...you can learn from manuals and help DVDs and the like, but it won't be easy, it won't be quick, and you will stumble a lot along the way. Robert Rodriguez did it...but he is also an exception.
And just because Apple wrote the editing software, doesn't mean the Apple Store employees know how to build a functional professional editing system. They don't.
So good luck...I wish you the best. But in all truth, if you want to make it in this world of professional production, you should think about becoming an employee at a production company first. Learn from people who know what they are doing...see how it is done first hand. This will help you skip making a lot of mistakes.
Re: Connecting monitor to Mac Pro to work with FCP suite by Jim Nicholson on Aug 12, 2009 at 2:09:31 pm
Thanks Shane
You are correct. First let me say I was only trying to get a rise with the PC statement. I still have 5 and use most of them everyday. I use an X-Box for games when I play them so I do not use pc's for games. So I hope I did not ruffle any feathers.
Back on topic, I admit I was kinda speaking out on the Apple store guys. They made many promises of functionality (right out of the box) that were entirely FALSE! This is what upset me. Yes it is my fault for not taking the zillions of hours and months to learn about the MAC before going to buy one but lets not sugar coat the wrong that was promised. This was upsetting to me. Nuff said about the Apple guys.
I agree with all of your comments about learning. I would have loved to find a production job to learn the basics and more but in this economy they are not on every street corner. In my area the few companies I know about when hiring will only hire students out of film school or college. Even the local public television (may be closing due to lost funding) will not talk to a streetwise candidate anymore. If I could relocate, maybe something could be found but I am rooted with responsibilities. I am no longer a young person with a free schedule.
I also am aware of the costs involved. I have already invested $45k and that is not even the bare minimum needed to pull off many jobs competing with local companies that have zillions$$ of equipment. This is only a drop in the bucket. You mention $900 converters and $1500 capture cards. I am not complaining I am just trying to highlight the fact that I will do this and I do not have the bucks many houses have.
In this tech world I know we will hear about how the equipment does not make up for skill/ability but it certainly helps. That equipment is needed if your finished work is to be on the same level of professional output of the other guys. I am sure we will hear how one guy with a camera and low end editor has done a tremendous job and is right up there with the big houses. Not if tech drove the project. I would like to see this guy's final work compare to a big house job when loads of fx and all other high tech end work is required.
I do guerrilla film making as I do not have that big buck equipment. Yes,I can do decent work as long as I do not need those graphic/animation/sound people that specialize as you mention. I can always hire out if the budget allows.
Yes I keep striving to learn.
Funny thing, when I entered the Aerospace field 30+ years ago as a class A machinist. I never had any formal training, just worked at a small job shop for 6 months, was hired off the street with a willingness to learn and was told by the lead man after a short while I was not in the right place. He told me I needed to go to a large shop where my talent would be appreciated. I did and never had 1 minute of formal training. Peoples lives depended on my work. I worked at Avco Lycoming in R+D and production.
Will it be tough, you bet, will I make mistakes, already have, will I learn, I am every day. Can I do this? I already am. Can I do it better, that is what I hope happens with the help of this and other forums.
With your help and the help of many other professionals that are willing to offer their knowledge/skills so that others may realize their dreams.
I thank all of you. This is how I always learned and if it were not for people like you guys I might be in school today!
:0) just kidding about school that is!
