Render adds and subtracts frames
by Richard Wirth
on
Oct 5, 2008 at 8:20:34 am
First time AE ever let me down. I just finished a TIF sequence and it added several frames. But not to the total. It subtracted several in a later segment so the total was correct. What gives? Anybody else ever had the problem? AE6.5, Mac G5, OS 10.4.11. Output was 2700 frames of 30FPS, frame render only (no fields).
Re: Render adds and subtracts frames by Eric Mousel on Oct 5, 2008 at 5:25:38 pm
Richard,
I recently had a similar problem to yours. When rendering the animation, frames were being duplicated but the frame total was accurate. It seemed as though random frames were just being dropped out in favor duplicates. Output was 900 frames at 23.98fps. Codec was 'animation'. It lead to a nasty stuttering effect that took all the fluidity out of the work. Unfortunately, the deadline was up and we had to go with what we had. And, on a slightly depressing note (or a positive one, depending on your outlook), the client didn't even notice. I've only been using After Effects for a year and a half, so naturally, I'm much more ignorant than most on this forum. Hopefully the answer is a simple matter of not setting up the render properly.
Eric Mousel
Creative Services Producer
KMIZ/KQFX/KZOU
Re: Render adds and subtracts frames by Roland R. Kahlenberg on Oct 5, 2008 at 6:17:16 pm
Could it be related to drop-frame settings? Check Project Settings, Comp Settings and Render Settings to ensure that they are in sync. I've found that when rendering to an Image Sequence, it's best to set the Project and Comp settings accordingly.
HTH
RoRK
broadcastGEMs.com - the leader in customizable royalty-free animated backdrops
Re: Render adds and subtracts frames by Dave LaRonde on Oct 5, 2008 at 7:05:44 pm
It sounds like something was set to 30fps when it should have been set to 29.97. For example if you imported an image sequence into AE, AE defaults to interpreting it as 30fps, and you'd need to change it to 29.97.
Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA
Re: Render adds and subtracts frames by Richard Wirth on Oct 5, 2008 at 11:32:26 pm
Thanks for the responses. I'll recheck some of the render settings when I'm in the office tomorrow, but this is second time this has happened on this sequence.
Further clarification - material was created from Photoshop so no video import was involved. Project is set up as 30fps with TIF sequence selected to render full frames (no field render). Out of 2700 frames, frame 1802 & 1803 are identical (that's the only one I can point to as it has timecode burnin). The addition of that frame is the third frame to be added (previous frames are still frame). Frame 1803 picks up with the next TC number and continues accurately until it goes to black. Somewhere in the 2 second black segment, it truncates the three frames it added to make the total 2700.
The errors are in the sequence coming out of AE, before they even get to a video import.
Re: Render adds and subtracts frames by Dave LaRonde on Oct 6, 2008 at 8:25:04 pm
[Richard Wirth]"Project is set up as 30fps with TIF sequence selected to render full frames (no field render)."
Okay, why are you using that frame rate? If this will ONLY be played on a computer, you can get away with it. But if it's going to be shown on video monitors, you need to use 29.97. That's just how they work, and it's probably how your editing application is set up, too.
To me, it still sounds like there's a frame rate mismatch going on.
Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA
Re: Render adds and subtracts frames by Eric Mousel on Oct 7, 2008 at 9:30:37 pm
Dave,
Thank you for the great facts on NTSC related framerates (i.e. 29.97 and 23.976). It has solved a lot of problems for me and definitely changed my assumptions.
Eric Mousel
Creative Services Producer
KMIZ/KQFX/KZOU
Re: Render adds and subtracts frames by Dave LaRonde on Oct 7, 2008 at 10:15:07 pm
Yeah, people who toil in NTSC-Land really have to keep those screwy frame rates in mind.
If you think the frame rates are fun, just wait until you wrap your head around the notion of Drop-Frame and Non-Drop-Frame Time Code! And to avoid getting hopelessly lost in a long edit, you DO have to wrap your head around it. Better start googling, and here's a hint: shoot and edit in Drop-Frame, no matter how bizarre it seems to you. Make the whole station standardize on Drop-Frame. Life will get better if you do.
I realize 29.97 and 23.976 are just numbers, and you can work with them after a fashion. But you'd think that when they came up with the idea of digital broadcasting, they could have fixed the frame rate so it was 30 again... which it once was, before the advent of color TV.
Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA
Re: Render adds and subtracts frames: one more thing by Dave LaRonde on Oct 7, 2008 at 10:56:25 pm
If you're going to INSIST on shooting 24p -- which I never do, because I think 30p does a very nice job, thank you very much -- you're going to have to get used to the notion of 3:2 pulldown. Not to mention the removal of pulldown in FCP before you attempt to use the footage in AE.
If you shoot SD, here's a good article that 'splains pulldown well:
It might not be your specific camera, but it does a good job of explaining pulldown, and the difference between 24p and 24pa. This stuff also applies if somebody's forcing you to use one of those God-awful HDV cameras, too.
Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA
