I'd like to upgrade my skills set by learning a full 3D program. I'd like something that will be easy to learn by an After Effects user. Between Maya and Cinema 4D, what do you recommend? These are my other criteria:
1. Works well with or has better integration with AE
2. Relatively easy to use
3. Objects look real
4. Major plugins are already integrated with the program. No need to buy plug-ins just to make the program work.
Re: Maya or Cinema 4D by Sam Young on Sep 15, 2008 at 3:34:21 am
cinema 4d!
1. it integrates w/ AE better than maya. c4d can do multi-pass renders and export light and camera data with an AE project file.
2. it's easy to learn and use (for a 3d program, that is)
3. the objects look real enough. but then, i dunno how real you need them to look.
4. you can do a lot with the core app. of course, if you want more bells and whistles, there are modules you can add on.
Re: Maya or Cinema 4D by clyde villegas on Sep 15, 2008 at 4:03:44 am
About how real it looks, I want the object to be placed on my live action video and it will not look fake. Like if I put a CGI dog side by side a real walking person that I shot on DV.
Re: Maya or Cinema 4D by clyde villegas on Sep 15, 2008 at 6:48:18 am
Yeah, i think Cinema 4D is awesome! Makes me wonder why some people here brag that they know Maya. It's like if you wanna get serious with 3D, better learn Maya.
Re: Maya or Cinema 4D by Shawn Miller on Sep 15, 2008 at 6:59:10 pm
"It's like if you wanna get serious with 3D, better learn Maya."
I think it's because Maya is a lot more popular in video and film production. Not that you can't do great work in C4D... you obviously can. But if you want to work for a post-production facility, you'll probably need to know Maya, XSI, Lightwave or 3DS Max (depending on what you do and who you want to work for).
Re: Maya or Cinema 4D by Barend Onneweer on Sep 15, 2008 at 7:18:00 pm
Well, it doesn't make any sense to comment about Maya if you don't know what it does.
Personally - after a lot of deliberation I chose Cinema 4D. I came from a 3DSMax background, and tried Maya before finally ending up with C4D.
Cinema 4D is easier to get into than Maya. It's also more affordable than Maya. I'm very happy with the Advanced Renderer module - I get excellent quality output.
Maya IS more high-end in the sense that it allows for tweaking an customizing on an insane level. The amount of parameters available and flexibility offered is extreme. The power of the scripting language is equally impressive. And if you look at the Unlimited package: the fur and fluid tools are way out there. But also the shader tree and animation tools offer more subtle control than C4D
So for bigger studios and 3D specialists it may offer benefits to go with a tool like Maya.
For smaller companies and allround professionals I'd advise going with Cinema 4D. You'll be up to speed making money quicker with C4D than with Maya.
Note that I'm not saying you can't do excellent work in C4D - otherwise I wouldn't have chosen it.
Re: Maya or Cinema 4D by Mike Zimbard on Sep 16, 2008 at 2:29:53 am
I think both programs are very different animals. For the solo motion graphics artist who's looking to add a little more to their arsenal, I think C4D is an excellent choice. It's quick to learn, has a lot of powerful features, and you can get half decent looking stuff without having to invest too much time. Also, it has very nice integration with AE for bringing in 3D cameras from C4D.
A program like Maya is more designed for a collaborative team environment and higher end 3D work that requires a deeper toolset and features that require real fine tuning. I have just a working knowledge of Maya, but our 3D department blows me away with how they utilize the program right down to its nuts and bolts. From pipeline setup, to shaders, to dynamics, to scripting there is almost nothing you can't accomplish. Because of this complexity I would say it should probably not be the program of choice for someone just looking to beef up their AE work a bit. However, for someone who really has a passion for 3D modelling, animation, rendering, etc its tough to beat. And multi-pass rendering has been in there for a while :)
Re: Maya or Cinema 4D by Mike Zimbard on Sep 16, 2008 at 2:59:55 am
I think both programs are very different animals. For the solo motion graphics artist who's looking to add a little more to their arsenal, I think C4D is an excellent choice. It's quick to learn, has a lot of powerful features, and you can get half decent looking stuff without having to invest too much time. Also, it has very nice integration with AE for bringing in 3D cameras from C4D.
A program like Maya is more designed for a collaborative team environment and higher end 3D work that requires a deeper toolset and features that require real fine tuning. I have just a working knowledge of Maya, but our 3D department blows me away with how they utilize the program right down to its nuts and bolts. From pipeline setup, to shaders, to dynamics, to scripting there is almost nothing you can't accomplish. Because of this complexity I would say it should probably not be the program of choice for someone just looking to beef up their AE work a bit. However, for someone who really has a passion for 3D modelling, animation, rendering, etc its tough to beat. And multi-pass rendering has been in there for a while :)
Re: Maya or Cinema 4D by Shawn Miller on Sep 15, 2008 at 6:37:34 pm
I think it's easier to decide which application is best for you by downloading them all and trying them all. That said, C4D sounds like it will probably fit your needs. You might also want to think about exacxtly what you want to do in 3D, every aspect of 3D production can be a career on it's own (modelling, texturing/painting, rigging, animating, lighting, rendering, effects, simulations, etc.).
Anyway, I really think it's best to try before you buy in any case. :-)
BTW, Sam.... Maya does indeed do multipass rendering. :-)
Re: Maya or Cinema 4D by Eyal Dimant on Sep 16, 2008 at 3:52:27 am
If you are working in a facility that uses smoke/flint/flame, for compositing Maya/3ds works better (all are discreet products. as for "realistic" 3ds and maya have better lighting systems, and photorealistic renderings, but mostly your final product will realistic based on your compositing skills.
Also if you are planing on compositing 3d into live, I would check compatibilty between 3d trackers, boujou/syntheyes etc and C4d.
Re: Maya or Cinema 4D by clyde villegas on Sep 16, 2008 at 6:01:29 am
That is exactly what I want. I want to be able to create believable 3D objects in a 3D program and mix it with live. Do they import the live action video to the 3D program or is it the other way around? Does Maya have a built in 3D tracker? How about c4d? Thanks and God bless.
Re: Maya or Cinema 4D by Eyal Dimant on Sep 16, 2008 at 6:32:00 am
Not sure about C4d (im a 3ds user) as for 3ds it has a 3d tracer which is not very good.
You are better off using external software (Boujou, matchmover, syntheyes), but again check if they are compatible with the software you are going to use.
Re: Maya or Cinema 4D by Jack Leto on Sep 16, 2008 at 9:38:21 pm
If you want believability get Maya. Maya's native renderer is stronger. But for optimal realism you'd have to go with a third party like vray or renderman. And... you can import Maya scenes into AE, it just isnt as comprehensive as C4d.
Maya has a built in 3d tracker called Maya Live, but the third party Boujou is much better.
Re: Maya or Cinema 4D by Barend Onneweer on Sep 17, 2008 at 7:56:57 pm
[Jack Leto]"If you want believability get Maya."
Could you expand on what you mean by that? I've seen a lot of photoreal work done in Cinema 4D. For feature film and commercials. The Advanced Renderer is actually pretty good and reasonably fast.
Maya Live is crap - which I assume is one of the reasons Autodesk bought Realviz. And Maya Live only comes with Maya Unlimited which at 5k is hardly a feasible pricepoint for someone wanting to get his feet wet in 3D.
Re: Maya or Cinema 4D by clyde villegas on Sep 17, 2008 at 11:10:36 pm
Barend, I've seen your demoreel in your website and it's fantastic! Are all those 3D work done in c4d? Is there a separate plugin to track the 3D to the 2D live action? Or is the 3D tracker part of the package when you buy c4d? God bless.
Re: Maya or Cinema 4D by Barend Onneweer on Sep 18, 2008 at 6:58:43 pm
Hi Clyde,
Thanks for the kind words. Yes the 3D elements are all Cinema 4D - using the Advanced Renderer module.
There is no 3D camera tracker in Cinema 4D. If you want to get into 3D camera tracking there are many tools available. I've had best luck with Boujou - but many are very positive about Syntheyes which is by far the most affordable commercial option out there.
Re: Maya or Cinema 4D by Jack Leto on Sep 19, 2008 at 1:41:35 am
"The Advanced Renderer is actually pretty good and reasonably fast. "
mental ray is considered the most accurate simulator of raytracing and photon lights. maya has a deeper shader/texture toolset with a very flexible scripting language and more mature character animation tools. (this has all been said earlier).
the OP is looking to integrate "a CGI dog with a real person", thats more than getting your feet wet!
