taking the pulldown out (space issue)

	Re: taking the pulldown out (space issue) by Dave LaRonde on Aug 22, 2008 at 3:33:37 pm [jonathan grant] "I have a 95 minute movie in an AVI file that's only 20.6 gb. It's 24pA and I need to convert it to true 24p. " Your file size woes are NOTHING compared to three things I perceive in your statement above. Two of them are easy, the other, sadly, is tough. The first easy one: I take it that you want the ultimate frame rate to be 23.976 and NOT 23.98. Even though makers of editing software and cameras call it 23.98, they use the term as a shorthand for the REAL frame rate, 23.976. So you must make a 23.976 comp in AE. The second easy one: because you referred to 24pa, this movie of yours must be standard definition. 24pa doesn't exist in Hi-Def. That this is a standard-definition movie is germane to the rest of my response. Now, the really TOUGH one, and you're not going to want to see this: the pulldown should have been removed BEFORE this 95-minute epic was edited, and it should have been edited at 23.976. I'll say it again: the pulldown should have been removed BEFORE editing began, and you should have cut in a 23.976 (aka 23.98) timeline. Sorry to say it, but it's true. Here's why: Pulldown is the process of spreading a film frame rate across a TV frame rate. To do that, a camera needs to create extra frames. It adds a field from the last frame and a field from the next frame, creating a new frame at the current time. These fields can be added in different patterns, called a pulldown cadence, and it's VERY important. If you edit 24pa clips in a 29.97 timeline, you have to set in and out points on the clips, right? You trim up clips, you change in & out points, etc. At the same time, you add them to the timeline to create the finished movie. You're well aware of that. Here's what you may NOT be aware of -- the process of editing is 99.999% certain to screw up the pulldown cadence, making AE -- or any kind of software, for that matter -- incapable of removing the pulldown. You can't remove pulldown unless the cadence is consistent, and the process of editing destroys the cadence. By editing 24pa at 29.97, you inevitably chose to make cuts on TV frames that SHOULD NOT HAVE EXISTED at 23.976. There is nothing you can do to fix it. There are inevitably errant fields in your movie that shouldn't be there. Any Band-Aid solutions others may offer will only serve to degrade your movie's image quality. If quality isn't important to you, by all means use them. Editing at a film frame rate in TV can be done successfully. But there are certain steps that MUST be taken, and in a certain sequence in the workflow. If you choose to ignore them, you do so at your peril. Perhaps you were ignorant of all this -- you have now learned a bitter and time-consuming lesson. Perhaps you thought you could save time by not removing the pulldown. You will now pay for it. It's time to go back to square one: REMOVE THE PULLDOWN. Edit at 23.976. Get busy. Oh, and about your file size woes: get an external hard drive. $139 for 500 GB at Best Buy. Dave LaRonde Sr. Promotion Producer KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: taking the pulldown out (space issue) by Dave LaRonde on Aug 22, 2008 at 4:08:42 pm [Darby Edelen] "It's possible that this is raw footage or that it was edited somewhere else with the pulldown removed, and had the pulldown re-introduced when it was put to tape." If it's simply a collection of raw footage clips, it could STILL have cadence issues from shot to shot. HOWEVER... If it was cut at 23.976 with pulldown removed, then had pulldown added back... well, that could certainly happen. Like you, I don't know WHY it would happen, but it could. And if it is actually what happened, sorry for dragging you through Pulldown 101 again, Jonathan! Dave LaRonde Sr. Promotion Producer KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: taking the pulldown out (space issue) by Dave LaRonde on Aug 22, 2008 at 6:09:40 pm [jonathan grant] "Don't worry, none of those problems exist here." Hooray! There are far too many people who think that working in 24p is a just a matter of shooting 24p. "It calls it 24pA compression whatever that actually is. " Well, I'm stumped why it would create a 29.97 file. Furthermore, I can't help but think that the Adobe folks anticipated that people would want to make 24p DVD's and film-outs in Premiere, and sidestep 29.97 completely. I'd ask about this on the Premiere forum. I'm of no use to you because I work in Final Cut Pro, where pulldown removal is far from automatic. Dave LaRonde Sr. Promotion Producer KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: taking the pulldown out (space issue) by Dave LaRonde on Aug 22, 2008 at 11:46:37 pm [jonathan grant] "To my knowledge you can't export as true 24p for some weird reason! If it is possible, I'd like to know how! Where it says "24pA compression" you can change it to "NTSC compression" which I'm assuming puts a 3:2 pulldown when it exports but that's just my guess." Well, you know, there's always everyone's last resort: reading the manual........ Dave LaRonde Sr. Promotion Producer KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: taking the pulldown out (space issue) by Dave LaRonde on Aug 25, 2008 at 10:52:43 pm Just for the heck of it, I downloaded the Premiere Pro CS3 manual. Check out pp 33-35 in the Special Projects section. Once downloaded, I found it in about 3 minutes. Dave LaRonde Sr. Promotion Producer KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index

	Re: taking the pulldown out (space issue) by Dave LaRonde on Aug 26, 2008 at 5:21:36 pm Well, after a couple-three years with Adobe manuals, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the Premiere 1.5 manual ALSO has a Special Projects section, which would be good to scrutinize. Or you could post your problem on the Premiere forum and wait a few days for a straight answer. I'm no help to you because I cut on Final Cut Pro. Dave LaRonde Sr. Promotion Producer KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA Respond to this post   •   Return to posts index