Massive quality loss on import - Due Friday
by ed sully
on
Jul 24, 2008 at 5:04:05 am
Ive been working on this project 12 hours a day every day for the last month and tomorrow is the deadline. I currently am working with Apple PRO RES HQ footage, 29.97 non-drop bottom field first interlaced, editing on FCP and FX on AE.
The problem:
When i render out of AE, the footage looks good, but when i reimport it back into FCP the quality is destroyed, and i get strange error messages about how the footage doesnt match the sequence settings, yet ive have meticulously checked over AE's render settings and the sequence settings as well as FCP's project settings and they all match that of the original footage. At no one point was the footage ever exported under any other setting.
I also tried importing the Post-AE footage into premiere and it has the same loss of quality, but without the error messages. Changing the sequence settings to what FCP reccommends for the footage only serves to destroy the quality further. I tried to export the footage out of FCP hoping that the poor quality was maybe just a problem with FCP's preview, but it was the same.
I dont know what to do, ive tried everything, making sure AE settings are set to bottom field first interlaced, exporting instead of rendering, i even tried disabling fields, theres really no other options left unless theres. There has to be some reason why two separate editing platforms are destroying quality-AE-exported footage upon import. Somebody help!
Re: Massive quality loss on import - Due Friday by Chris Wright on Jul 24, 2008 at 6:24:50 am
THE CHALLENGE: Getting DVCProHD video exported from Final Cut Pro 6, into After Effects CS3, and then back into Final Cut Pro without shifting color or gamma.
THE PROBLEM: Apple and Adobe interpret Gamma differently when using the DVCProHD codec. Each use their own version of a DVCProHD codec.
POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS:
1) Use a 3rd party codec for both apps (Mainconcept, Canopus, Cineform, Raylight)
Downside: Cost money and I'd rather not deal with them
2) Use the Animation codec
Downside: Animation is a buggy codec, dropping frames and such. Also, file sizes are ridiculously huge and impractical.
3) Export Prorez HQ from FCP and in AE make an adjustment layer and tweak the gamma to 1.24.
Downside: This is a crude, temporary fix and probably not perfect in the gamma matching either.
Re: Massive quality loss on import - Due Friday by Dave LaRonde on Jul 24, 2008 at 4:14:14 pm
[Chris Wright]"Downside: Animation is a buggy codec, dropping frames and such."
This is absolutely and totally incorrect. You may find it to be so on your machine, but yours is the ONLY instance of the Animation Codec not performing as advertised. If it was my machine, I'd check it.
"Also, file sizes are ridiculously huge and impractical. "
If you're a hobbyist, yes. If you're trying to do this stuff for a living, it isn't.
Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA
Re: Massive quality loss on import - Due Friday by Ron Lindeboom on Jul 24, 2008 at 4:33:55 pm
[Chris Wright]"Animation is a buggy codec, dropping frames and such. Also, file sizes are ridiculously huge and impractical."
I have been using the Animation codec since 1994 when I bought CoSA After Effects 2.0 and I have never had any issues with using it. Never, in many hundreds and hundreds of times of using it.
With the cost of drives what they are today, the file sizes are of little consequence. They were long ago but today they are such a minor inconvenience as to be of no issue to nearly all of the pros that I know. Why the size seems so important to you, I simply do not understand.
If you don't like something, that is your prerogative and your right. But espousing it as gospel is misleading...
Best regards,
Ron Lindeboom
Remember: Burt Bacharach lied. What the world really needs now is an undo button.
Re: Massive quality loss on import - Due Friday by david bogie on Jul 24, 2008 at 6:34:03 pm
[Ron Lindeboom]"[Chris Wright] "Animation is a buggy codec, dropping frames and such. Also, file sizes are ridiculously huge and impractical." "
Chris, of course the Animation files are huge, it's a lossless codec.
You are probably trying to play it back in real time. Never could do that with Animation-based clips unless the version is hardware supported as on Ye Olde Media 100, which wans't really Animation but a realtime proprietary codec that supported alpha. Man, I loved that thing.
bogiesan
This is my standard sigfile so do not take it personally: "For crying out loud, read the freakin' manual."
Re: Massive quality loss on import - Due Friday by Ron Lindeboom on Jul 24, 2008 at 9:18:20 pm
[david bogie]"Never could do that with Animation-based clips unless the version is hardware supported as on Ye Olde Media 100, which wans't really Animation but a realtime proprietary codec that supported alpha. Man, I loved that thing."
Or the ye olde SLOMO engine from the old NUBUS-based Media 100 -- no one has still to this day created a slow-mo engine that is as easy to use, as quality in output and that makes a slomo that is as convincing to the eye of the audience.
Best regards,
Ron Lindeboom
Remember: Burt Bacharach lied. What the world really needs now is an undo button.
Re: Massive quality loss on import - Due Friday by Chris Wright on Jul 24, 2008 at 9:12:29 pm
it has nothing to do with playback, its importing the animation clip back into AE. Many, many people in other forums talk about this, but since you guys are adament, I'll relent and not bring it up again. :)
Re: Massive quality loss on import - Due Friday by Ron Lindeboom on Jul 24, 2008 at 9:27:12 pm
[Chris Wright]"Many, many people in other forums talk about this, but since you guys are adamant, I'll relent and not bring it up again."
If I were to take this comment at face value, I would be left with the impression that the people in this forum are just stupid. Either that, or that the people in this forum know something that the others don't know.
Yes, we have a lot of newer users here but we also have a LOT of working pros who have been at this for many years. If this were a common problem as you espouse, I am sure it would come up here on a regular basis. It doesn't. Well, except for one or two people whose experience seems quite contrary to the massive body of evidence experienced by the "body aggragate."
As David Bogie points out, it may be a localized issue that some people have just not worked through.
Best regards,
Ron Lindeboom
Remember: Burt Bacharach lied. What the world really needs now is an undo button.
Re: Massive quality loss on import - Due Friday by Dave LaRonde on Jul 24, 2008 at 3:21:07 pm
[ed sully]"...when i reimport it back into FCP the quality is destroyed...."
I can think of several things that could apply to the term "destroyed quality":
• Improper video levels
• Soft-looking video
• Grainy-looking video
• Video that looks like it's stuttering
• Heavily aliased video, giving it a stairsteppy look
Perhaps you could tell us what YOU mean by the term "the quality is destroyed", hmmmmm? Plus: it would also be VERY helpful in the diagnostic process to know exactly what your workflow is.
Without knowing this VERY BASIC information, all you're going to get are responses based on crystal ball gazing or shots in the dark, as you have already seen.
If you haven't already done so, I would also recommend that you ask about the Apple's ProRes HQ on the COW's FCP forum. I seem to recall that ProRes HQ isn't one of Apple's best efforts. Be prepared to give information about your type of Mac (or Macs, if that's the case), your video capture card, the OS version, your FCP version and your storage.
Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA
Re: Massive quality loss on import - Due Friday by Darby Edelen on Jul 24, 2008 at 4:52:26 pm
I agree with everything that Dave said. Also, in my experience working with footage from AE->FCP I would think that the first thing you should check are interlacing settings.
Darby Edelen Lead Designer Left Coast Digital Santa Cruz, CA
