I'm trying to render a fairly complex project to mpeg-dvd. The source video is HDV mpeg with lots of color correction (done in adjustment layers), many instances of masks, image stabilization, clone stamping and even one photoshop sequence. Some shots have three or more of these types of image massaging. The video is about 19 minutes in length. The project uses NTSC color space and the project is set to 16 bbp. The audio is 16 bit 48khz.
The machine it's on is a quad core Intel with 2 gb of memory. I'm using the CS3 version of After Effects.
Problem one. When I try to render the main composition to mpeg-dvd, the render usually fails anywhere from two to five minutes in. The log files are totally uninformative as to the problem. I'd rather not try to glue together a series of short mpegs in order to get something into Encore.
The only solution I've come up with is to render everything to a tiff sequence, then create a new project that might (I hope) be more successful in rendering the mpeg. However, the tiff render estimates that it will take 20 to 30 hours.
Can anyone point me to a procedure to diagnose and fix the reason why AE refuses to complete the render? OR is there a way I can speed up the tiff render? OR can someone suggest a strategy that keeps my source images at a decent quality in order to get the best possible image on SD DVD?
Now just slow by Ron Berntson on Jul 24, 2008 at 1:02:04 pm
Thanks for your response. I had found the troubleshooting (http://generalspecialist.com/2007/02/troubleshooting-after-effects-7.asp) suggested in this thread. The very first suggestion - importing the project, seem to have improved the stability / failing that I was experiencing. However, it has taken 8.5 hours to do 8 minutes of the 19 minute composition! Aside from going out and buying 8 GB of RAM ($CDN300) in order to make full use of my quad core processor, are there any obvious ways to speed up the render?
Re: Slow and flakey render by Dave LaRonde on Jul 24, 2008 at 2:35:30 pm
[Ron Berntson]"The source video is HDV mpeg with lots of color correction (done in adjustment layers), many instances of masks, image stabilization, clone stamping and even one photoshop sequence."
This is a VERY common problem, and it doesn't help one bit that the Adobe propaganda erroneously says it should work. What do I mean? Read on....
Dave's Stock Answer #1:
If the footage you imported into AE is any kind of the following -- Native HDV, MPEG1, MPEG2, mp4, m2t, H.261 or H.264 -- you need to convert it to a different codec.
These kinds of footage use temporal, or interframe compression. They have keyframes at regular intervals, containing complete frame information. However, the frames in between do NOT have complete information. Interframe codecs toss out duplicated information.
In order to maintain peak rendering efficiency, AE needs complete information for each and every frame. But because these kinds of footage contain only partial information, AE freaks out, resulting in a wide variety of problems.
Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA
Re: Slow and flakey render by Ron Berntson on Jul 24, 2008 at 3:54:48 pm
Since this is the first major project of this type I've done, I'm experiencing Stock Problem #1 to which your Stock Answer #1 is the correct response. I should also note that Stock Good Production Habits #1 would have been useful at the time I was acquiring the footage (monitoring all three cameras with real external monitors, having the right number and kind of lights, etc.). They would have eliminated a lot of the visual massaging necessary in AE - however, these habits all cost way more than my budget.
Given the above, I take it that my best strategy from the start would have been png image sequences and the judicious use of proxies?
Re: Slow and flakey render by Dave LaRonde on Jul 24, 2008 at 5:05:21 pm
[Ron Berntson]"I'm experiencing Stock Problem #1 to which your Stock Answer #1 is the correct response. I should also note that Stock Good Production Habits #1 would have been useful at the time..."
Don't take it personally. I've pasted that Stock Answer into three different replies just today.
To convert the footage for use in AE, you can use PNG files if you'd like. The key is to lose as little quality as possible. I might go with a QT in the Animation codec. It's not compressed, but it's lossless. Another good choice: Apple 10 Bit Uncompressed. DVCPro HD is okay, too.
Got Final Cut Pro? Stay away from using ProResHQ. When going back to FCP (if that's what you've got), I'd render out of AE using the codecs mentioned above, and in the same order of preference. If you get the dreaded Red Render Bar in FCP, you can always change the codec on the FCP timeline. In any case, there'll most likely be rendering to do in FCP. Hey, it happens.
Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA
Re: New forum? or maybe a Look here first? by Ron Lindeboom on Jul 24, 2008 at 5:39:08 pm
We are in the process of giving up, as human nature seems unstoppable and people can look at the posts on a board and still not want to bother to read them and will post the exact same question that is one or two posts from the top of the forum. Hence, Dave LaRonde's Stock Answer #1 and it's near unassailable position as the most posted answer in the history of the COW.
We have been thinking of writing a "postus interruptus" (to butcher the Latin) script that sees certain words and highjacks the post before it goes up and will offer certain common questions and answers.
That is the only thing that would work.
Best regards,
Ron Lindeboom
Remember: Burt Bacharach lied. What the world really needs now is an undo button.
Re: New forum? or maybe a Look here first? by Dave LaRonde on Jul 24, 2008 at 6:02:08 pm
[Joey Burnham]"Or how about get HDV to GO AWAY"
AMEN, BROTHER!!!
Gawd, I cringe when people think HDV is an adequate substitute for the real thing.
But then, I also remember when people thought a VHS camera was an adequate substitute for 1-inch videotape. The difference then -- Sony and Panasonic weren't telling everybody, "you can do this stuff, too, and it's just as good as the real thing!"
Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA
Re: New forum? or maybe a Look here first? by Dave LaRonde on Jul 24, 2008 at 6:22:35 pm
[Joey Burnham]"On AE concerning HDV and .mpg? Seem like every other post is about this these days... "
I'd say there are two reasons:
• HDV cameras are cheap, they get people into HD cheaply, and people actually believe the propaganda about them. Heck, otherwise-intelligent Germans in the '30's and '40's believed Joseph Goebbels' propaganda.
• Adobe doesn't help matters by claiming that AE supports the various compression schemes used in HDV. Yet another case of the easily-misled believing propaganda.
I'm not surprised that there are bunches of questions on the topic.
Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA
