Problem Solved: Animation Codec Woes (Bakes fine, imports problems)
by Julian Vigo
on
Jul 15, 2008 at 7:36:05 pm
EDIT: moments after I posted this I tried one more test: changing my composition & render settings from 23.98fps to 24fps... That completely solved the problem... so keep that in mind....
Hey all,
I have a really confusing problem. Any footage that I export/bake out of AE using the animation codec and then re-import has half the frames missing in terms of how AE displays, playsback, and renders, even though all frames appear in quicktime. I've read a few threads here that seem to have related problems, but haven't seen any good solutions.
Here are the technicals in my case:
2x 2.8ghz quad core Mac Pro w/8g ram, running OS 10.5.4
Example: I have a short composition, say exactly 1 second long. I bake it via the render cue using the animation codec, no audio, full 23.98 frame rate, etc. It renders ok.
I open it in quicktime: it looks great, all frames are present, movie properties shows the frame rate to be 23.98.
I import the baked clip to my AE project and put it into a composition with all the correct settings (23.98, 1280x720, etc). The baked clip's duration (1 sec) is correct. BUT. If I scrub through the clip (or render it!) it does not show all 24 frames, it only shows 12, each one being held for 2 frames on the timeline. When I doubleclick on the clip/layer in the composition timeline to bring up the layer window the same problem is evident.
If I go to interpret footage everything looks normal: the click is being interpreted as 23.98 as it should be.
The problem persists in renders, so it doesn't seem to be just a weird display issue. On longer clips the "plays every other frame but holds them for 2 frames" problem is not totally consistent, so every so often it won't skip frames... this seems like a pulldown thing, but "remove pulldown" is off in the interpret footage...
This problem happens whether or not the baked/imported clip has an alpha channel, and regardless of its length.
I tried re-baking my animation renders in quicktime pro (again rendering using the animation codec) and that didn't work either. :(
Is there any known solution to this problem without having to ditch my beloved animation codec?
Re: Animation Codec Woes (Bakes fine, imports problems) by Dave LaRonde on Jul 15, 2008 at 8:01:25 pm
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but your frame rate should NOT be 23.98. It should be 23.976. It's true.
When all the camera manufacturers and all the editing software manufacturers refer to the NTSC film frame rate as 23.98, they lie to you. They LIE!!!!! Why do they do that? No clue. But AE is one of those applications that Gets It Right, and a 23.98 frame rate is NOT a 23.976 frame rate, and that could be causing you some grief.
IMPORTANT NOTE: If you captured your footage properly, you should be able to drag your footage onto the Make Comp icon at the bottom of the project window. In your case, AE should respond by creating a comp in the proper pixel aspect ratio (1), the proper resolution (1280x720), the identical duration of the clip and and the proper frame rate (23.976). If you don't get that frame rate, you did something wrong in your capturing / editing application.
So I'd start with getting the proper frame rate, 23.976. See if that reduces your frustration.
Oh, and I'm unfamiliar with this "bake" term. Is that some other application's lingo for exporting or rendering?
Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA
Re: Animation Codec Woes (Bakes fine, imports problems) by Julian Vigo on Jul 15, 2008 at 8:11:51 pm
In my parlance bake = render, a term for if you have to render something out before your final render. I'm not really a professional so I don't know if that's proper usage but I've heard a lot of ppl saying it recently.
Thanks for your tip on framerate. Switching to 24 seemed to work too. There is audio however that I need to be sync'd to, I wonder if using 23.976 is important in that regard?
Re: Animation Codec Woes (Bakes fine, imports problems) by Dave LaRonde on Jul 15, 2008 at 10:27:13 pm
[Julian Vigo]"There is audio however that I need to be sync'd to, I wonder if using 23.976 is important in that regard?"
It sure is! I bet if you render out.... well, any kind of animation from AE at 23.976, then import it into your editing application, the file from AE will show up as 23.98. Let's say you happen to use Final Cut Pro: FCP will most certainly show it as 23.98.
Why does Apple call the frame rate 23.98 instead of 23.976? Well, let's just say that those boys & girls in Cupertino aren't always the brightest candles in the chandelier.
Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA
Re: Problem Solved: Animation Codec Woes (Bakes fine, imports problems) by Chris Wright on Jul 15, 2008 at 10:15:00 pm
even if you were 23.98 instead of 23.976 (the correct one) you shouldn't be dropping 12 frames. The animation codec is a little buggy. If 24fps works and you want to keep using animation, then timeremap your audio. It should snap to the same end frame.
Re: Problem Solved: Animation Codec Woes (Bakes fine, imports problems) by Steve Roberts on Jul 15, 2008 at 11:48:38 pm
Anyway, try 23.976, which is correct:
30fps X .8 = 24fps
29.97fps X .8 = 23.976
By the way, "bake" is generally used by 3D folk when fixing a texture or other effect in the 3D app so it doesn't have to be recalculated on every frame. AE's equivalent might be "pre-render".
